03-26-2016 11:15 AM
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  1. kristofpetho's Avatar
    I'm happy with Microsoft, but what HTC doesn't understand is that this makes you less likely to choose HTC next time, not go out and buy a new one. Between my wife and I we have had the HD2 (2), HD7, Radar, HTC 8X(2), HTC One M8. If they truly do not allow this upgrade, I'm done with HTC. I have the insider Windows 10 on it, it working fine and when the Surface phone arrives that will be my new phone. My wife long switched over to Lumia several years ago.
    Exactly. HTC's only looking at the short term, not the long one. They might save some money not allocating people to the HTC M8 development, but they loose out on way more in the future when even less people will buy their phones.
    03-25-2016 12:17 PM
  2. waazzupppp's Avatar
    Your wife is a smart lady :)
    Not even close... I'm pretty sure that ANYONE who trusts MS at this point is a complete and total baboon. Everyone is jumping all over HTC for this when it's really MS's doing. I bet there was a conversation like:

    HTC: Hey guys, we can't wait to get rolling on a Win 10 device for you.

    MS: Yeah, we can't wait to make one either.

    HTC: So what's the process like for doing this? Are we just going to port it over to our M9 like we did with the M8?

    MS: Nope.

    HTC: Well how about we make a new M10 for it? Get it, Windows 10, M10?

    MS: Nope.

    HTC: Well, how about we start with updating the M8 then? When will the update be ready to test?

    MS: Uhhh...

    HTC: What about features?

    MS: <crickets>

    HTC: Will Continuum work if we upgrade the M8?

    MS: Nope...

    HTC: USB OTG?

    MS: Nope...

    HTC: Hello Windows?

    MS: Nope...

    HTC: What will work?

    MS: <crickets>

    HTC: Hey guys, will you support the additional features of the Duo Cam if we rewrite the firmware for it?

    MS: Nope...

    MS Lumia Team: Hey guys, if we release a new Windows 10 phone, why don't we just cut features like Continuum out of it all together?

    HTC: Whoa, hey Lumia, how's it going?

    MS Lumia Team: We're the 1% man, it's going GREAT!

    HTC: Hey we are too! Wait, is that bad or good?

    MS: That sounds like a marketing plan to us Lumia! Get rolling on that one ASAP!

    HTC: Hey guys, seriously, we were thinking about doing the upgrade, but we don't understand how this is going to happen. We write it, then submit it to you and it will be pushed out right?

    MS: Nope...

    HTC: How would it work then?

    MS Lumia Team: Well if you were unlocked, you could push it out yourself.

    HTC: Hey Lumia, our carrier partner Verizon never locked the device, it is unlocked for use on other networks you *****.

    MS: Hey HTC, we could push it out, but we are bowing to stupid US carriers again and letting them issue the updates. By the way, thanks for letting us sell the M8 in our stores when we couldn't make a flagship device for over a year.

    HTC: No problem, we have a 10 year relationship with you that goes back to before we were actually known as HTC. We were happy to jump out on a limb and show the world that your OS ran on Android hardware better than Android does.

    MS: You bet... Tell you what, we won't publish the fact that we aren't going to support you going forward on Windows 10, we'll let your customers continue to ask you over and over again and you can just keep telling them there's nothing new to report.

    MS Lumia Team: Hey, don't forget to do the same for us. Keep as many of our devices on the list as you can until the last minute. We don't care if all those people that bought phones last year for $50 get the update. They can get a new $100 phone later this year that already has it. In fact, maybe we could do a Smoked By Windows 10 deal and take them all in trade for a $25 gift card at the store? Might be a way to get cheaper devices back in the loop to support India and China sales a bit more.

    MS: Dang it Lumia! You guys are awesome. Where do you get these great ideas?

    MS Lumia Team: Hey, we just got together with our Xbox buddies and they told us all about long term marketing. Make a product, screw everyone over, then make a better one. It's a great idea. We bring things up like Continuum on one or two devices and then use it as a selling feature for the devices that don't have it. Sure, people get pissed, but not nearly as pissed as they do about the fact that the Store doesn't work or that the OS is buggier than Android Banana Bread was.

    MS: Hey now, you're hitting a bit close to home on that one peeps...

    HTC: Did you guys forget that we're still here?


    Ok, so that might be a bit too close to the truth, but face it, Microsoft is the one that is continuing to SCREW over end users and all of us are standing in line for it. It started in 2012 with the the change from Windows 7 to 8. Running the defunct Lumia 900 out when in just 6 months, Windows Phone 7 was going to be dead. Then we run the 920 out in November 2012, which served as the flagship model until the 930 came out 18 months later. Sure, there was the 1020 in the middle of that (7/13) but it was a niche device only available on one carrier in the US initially. Oh wait, so was the 920 and 930... Sorry, carrier versions only - no choices there... Then once we got over the debacle of not having a flagship, three of the four major US carriers all launched the M8 (8/14) and all was good. Since 8/14, carriers have ditched contracts, Microsoft abandoned Windows 8 completely and everyone was stuck wondering what the heck was going on.

    I personally love my M8 with the Win10 Preview. I don't use it as my daily driver any longer because of the lack of support for Google applications in Windows. As far as the OS goes, there are certainly more bugs than ever before, but that usually happens as it gets closer to RTM. Here's the bigger issue though... Did HTC break a promise to the users? Well, Windows 10 has NOT been released yet. Technically, if they release it before August, HTC might want to consider running it out to M8 users - even if there are only 4 of us. Otherwise, they could pull the March 2014 card and say the M8's life cycle ended yesterday - not that the Windows version of the device is a separate model that would have continued support through August. I'll just pull this from the fine print section of their Advantage Program TOS and let you read about that "broken promise" that everyone is lashing out about...

    "Now when customers buy any HTC One they can rest assured their device will be future proofed, with major Android updates for 2 years from launch. And it’s nearly accident proof too, because we will replace a broken screen for free once within the first 6 months you own it—let’s face it accidents do happen and we want to keep your device in great condition."

    Clearly, HTC states that the Advantage program offers users MAJOR ANDROID UPDATES for the next two years. It never mentions Windows anywhere in the fine print. It does say that they will support software updates for 2 years on the main page, but technically Win 8 was updated until it was killed off. Not saying its right, but lets start shifting the blame back to where it belongs - Microsoft.
    MSFTisMIA likes this.
    03-25-2016 12:25 PM
  3. ThaKrazyOne's Avatar
    Exactly. HTC's only looking at the short term, not the long one. They might save some money not allocating people to the HTC M8 development, but they loose out on way more in the future when even less people will buy their phones.
    Very true. We lose right now by not getting Win10, but they lose in the long run with a drop in sales. Man do I miss my Lumia 830
    03-25-2016 01:02 PM
  4. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    And with my all knowing and all great Lumia Line, I am getting the update and recently (today) updated to redstone.....Please don't use some outlier Lumia that wasn't even marketed in the least(810, 822) to try and support the fact that HTC does not support their phones. 8x and 8s owners got screwed over and pulled around.

    The icon is an anomaly in and of itself...Thankfully they seem to be trying to get it updated. Fact of the matter is, I love how HTC is getting a free pass here (though the people on reddit aren't letting them get a free pass easily) because they literally made a guarantee to fully support this device for 2 years and they broke said guarantee. Their m8 is fully capable of running Windows 10 and they wont update it.

    Lesson Learned for HTC users. If you are a Windows Phone fan

    - Don't buy HTC or Samsung....SE owners are almost as screwed as M8 owners.
    - Don't buy a flagship Windows phone from Verizon or T-mobile (though T-Mobile seems to be doing fairly well).
    - Get a Lumia. While there are the rare case of them not being updated...there is not anywhere the level of stress and frustration because generally speaking your 2 year old Lumia(i.e Lumia 1520 and 930) will get supported/updated.

    Also the m8 is not a carrier Variant.
    Yes, they are on 3 different Carriers (more than 810 and 822 were) but it is the same phone regardless.

    The 810 is a carrier variant of the 820 and the 822 was the same. Att's 820(which is largely the same as the International 820 aside from carrier bands). Though if I recall the 822, did get denim so really your point lies with Lumia 810 which was doomed from the start.

    Edit: Also comparing 2 mid-range phones (from 2012 or so at that) to a Flagship is hilarious. Even more so when you realize the hype the M8 got with that announcement and the fact that for nearly 2 years it was the only flagship available for people to choose (unfortunately for them).

    The icon is the only true one you should be comparing it to and even then the Icon was screwed due to Verizon from the start in the first place. The m8 had three carriers and you mean to tell me that the M8 couldn't muster enough sells to warrant an update and/or HTC at least allowing Microsoft to continue insider previews? That's tragic.

    I can almost understand the icon(being on one carrier) but the M8 windows survived longer than the Icon and SE I believe on Verizon...so obviously it had to sell somewhat decently for them to keep on the roster for well over a year and at Full 2 year pricing for a good while.

    There is no justification for poor OEM support and this is why WIndows Phone users avoid non-lumia flagships because this is what happens when you get them. Unfortunately, Microsoft isn't remembering the Lumia roots and many are unhappy with 950 XL but I laugh when people blame Lumia fans for not buying OEM phones when no OEM has shown any sense of support aside from Blu and possibly, Alcatel.

    Let's see what the Japanese OEMs can do and Acer and HP throughout 2016. But HTC should not be anyone's buy list (for Android or Windows) any longer because you get what you get. And for many of their android fans, that's nearly nothing....so you know the same applies double fort their windows users.
    You're clearly very invested in Windows phone. I'd call it iSheep level, but even iSheep would thumb their nose at your OS choice.

    No one here is giving HTC a pass. But i always find it interesting that everyone knows the amount of power carriers wield - especially you who has claimed to work for one as a rep in the past - and when updates aren't delivered, people want to burn the OEM to the ground.

    Yes, HTC said they'd support the phone for 2 years. But if you've been around Windows since 2003SE days like me, you'd know that very few OEMs are in a position to push updates out without much carrier interference. In fact you can Bing or Google many articles on the software update process. While MSFT with Windows 10 is trying to wrest control from the carriers, see how there's always a delay with updates on AT&T.

    I was talking about carrier branded phones, which the Icon, 810, 822 and M8 are. I'm still waiting for you to show me an international model of the M8 for Windows to fully validate your point. So when i said these were all carrier made variants, the carriers have say about releasing updates. So the best you can do is talk about the 1520, which has both a US carrier variant and an international model? How does that fit into a discussion about carrier branded variants only? It's like talking about racing horses vs horses and you roll along saying a donkey can fun faster than a horse therefore the conversation is pointless.

    When did you join Windows phone? Sounds like Windows 8 to me, because if you were around for Windows phone 7, you'd remember AT&T withholding updates on phones because they didn't sell. Or is your argument that those were non-Lumia the dead horse you'll bring up again?

    And don't bring the 8X into this. Or the 8S. By MSFT's standards the 8S wasn't going to get Windows 10 as a 512MB device. Where HTC crippled the 8S was with the components - 4GB ROM, 512MB RAM, etc. HTC was relatively transparent with the update process for the 8X - there was issues on some of the models supplied international carriers and that's why they skipped some updates or dropped some.

    Carriers don't care what brand sells, as long as it sells. If it doesn't, they hem and haw about updates. Bottom line.

    No one has liked what HTC has contributed to here, but to blame them solely is narrow minded. No one is giving them a free pass either.

    Oh, and call me when the Fierce XL sales slow down and T-Mobile feels it isn't selling and throws it away. Becuase as much as MSFT talks it'll push updates without carriers, until i see it consistently, i won't buy that one...just like you won't buy another HTC phone.

    Posted approved via Moto Maxx
    03-25-2016 01:18 PM
  5. teddystiles's Avatar
    Yes, we're up the creek.

    Just in case HTC/MS change their minds, however, what's the best position to be in with my HTC One M8, OS-wise? I joined the Insider program back when it was announced, but as this is my daily driver, I never had the courage to actually install the preview. So I don't really have a firm grasp on the rings/builds/branches concept, but some redditors are reporting that they left one ring, then got an update that they didn't expect, and may be in a position to run future builds on their M8.

    Nobody knows where the truth lies at this point, but I know that since what I was waiting for (RTM on my One) hasn't panned out, I want to get started on Windows 10 if it isn't too late. So I open the Windows Insider app that's been on my phone since the day it was released, and I'm asked which of the three rings I want.

    Which one do I want?
    03-25-2016 03:25 PM
  6. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Yes, we're up the creek.

    Just in case HTC/MS change their minds, however, what's the best position to be in with my HTC One M8, OS-wise? I joined the Insider program back when it was announced, but as this is my daily driver, I never had the courage to actually install the preview. So I don't really have a firm grasp on the rings/builds/branches concept, but some redditors are reporting that they left one ring, then got an update that they didn't expect, and may be in a position to run future builds on their M8.

    Nobody knows where the truth lies at this point, but I know that since what I was waiting for (RTM on my One) hasn't panned out, I want to get started on Windows 10 if it isn't too late. So I open the Windows Insider app that's been on my phone since the day it was released, and I'm asked which of the three rings I want.

    Which one do I want?
    The middle ring gives you .164, the same official upgrade ROM and mostly likely the last update in that branch. I was on fast ring for a while and got everything up to when MSFT redefined the categories...

    Posted approved via Moto Maxx
    03-25-2016 06:45 PM
  7. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I love this ideology that people have. Let's call people sheep because they are fans and are happy with a product? I wonder what the term would be for users who constantly bash a company/product? LOL

    You are right, I have carrier experience first-hand. I know that. I also know that OEMs have a notoriously bad track record(On the Android side) updating their phones. It's just even longer on carrier models. So you cant blame the carrier for everytime some OEM backtracks on a update. You can only blame them when they deliberately refuse to update the phone which has happened.

    I am comparing the carrier model of the 1520 vs the Carrier model of the M8 windows. I am comparing the carrier model of the 920(and most Lumia phones) to the HTC 8x/8s......so you're not making much sense here.

    I had some mild experience with Windows Phone 7 but at that time I was an android fanboy (dark times in my mobile life) and I joined as a fan in the Windows Phone 8 era with the HTC 8x as my first Windows phone. What is hilarious is how you guys try to paint me as some HTC basher...when ironically, I always preferred HTC to begin with Android (My Droid Eris, incredible, Aria, EVo 4G, EVO 3d, Sensation and DNA were some of my best android phones) and I started my official WP experience with HTC only to discover they sucked royally and got Lumia.

    I am bringing the 8x/8s into it...because their customers were jerked around during the WP 8.1 launch. Will we get it? No...Wait we will? Cool..Wait, we aren't?

    But sure let's give HTC a pass for that. It's no different than HTC with their WP7 devices(the international versions) that often didn't get updated.

    Why do I blame HTC?

    1. It's their phone.....you can't blame Microsoft. Blame the carriers if you wish, but this has little if anything to do with Microsoft?

    2. Your phone sales suck already for Android? You release recycled hardware with a NEW OS like 6 months later after the android version and you expect people to want hand-me downs? And you wonder why it didn't sell.

    I always said it is hilarious how people would rather hold on to older hardware and not buy the M8 windows despite the fact it was the only flagship in the US to get in the first place....

    3. HTC didn't market the device really...it was an after-thought.

    4. HTC has a horrible track record with Android(worse so) than Windows Phone. HTC has done little to fix their image/reputation and that is why they are struggling as they are now. Being beaten by Lumia on WP and Samsung and multitude of OEMs on Android.

    5. HTC offered literally nothing compelling...their HTC app sucked in comparison to the Lumia apps(irrelevant now since they have been discontinued or became globally available unfortunately to all Windows phone). Their camera sucked against Lumias...and there was no compelling reason for the masses to buy it(the Windows or android version) compared to competitors.

    In the end, HTC is to blame because their poor decisions, poor marketing and release.....is precisely why their phone had low sales despite no competition. Those low sales are due to poor actions and that is why they are not updating it. Because they did nothing for it and in the end, got nothing but like probably at best 5,000 users and I am being whole-heartedly generous here with that number. It took a year and a half for HTC M8 to even show up on the Aduplex stats.

    As far as the fierce XL, it's a low-end phone.....so it likely has the potential to do well enough. Then again, we saw what Tmobile did to Lumia 640 but Alcatel seems to be working with Microsoft closely so we may see them still get support regardless of Tmobile.

    As it stands, Alcatel has yet to disappoint and are planning that superphone which should be exciting.

    I may even rock a non-lumia flagship....

    After all, so far, the Alcatel has been getting all the updates the 950(international) have gotten. It got redstone before any of the older flagships. So I don't see why in the near future it wouldn't continue to do so. try again.
    You're clearly very invested in Windows phone. I'd call it iSheep level, but even iSheep would thumb their nose at your OS choice.

    No one here is giving HTC a pass. But i always find it interesting that everyone knows the amount of power carriers wield - especially you who has claimed to work for one as a rep in the past - and when updates aren't delivered, people want to burn the OEM to the ground.

    Yes, HTC said they'd support the phone for 2 years. But if you've been around Windows since 2003SE days like me, you'd know that very few OEMs are in a position to push updates out without much carrier interference. In fact you can Bing or Google many articles on the software update process. While MSFT with Windows 10 is trying to wrest control from the carriers, see how there's always a delay with updates on AT&T.

    I was talking about carrier branded phones, which the Icon, 810, 822 and M8 are. I'm still waiting for you to show me an international model of the M8 for Windows to fully validate your point. So when i said these were all carrier made variants, the carriers have say about releasing updates. So the best you can do is talk about the 1520, which has both a US carrier variant and an international model? How does that fit into a discussion about carrier branded variants only? It's like talking about racing horses vs horses and you roll along saying a donkey can fun faster than a horse therefore the conversation is pointless.

    When did you join Windows phone? Sounds like Windows 8 to me, because if you were around for Windows phone 7, you'd remember AT&T withholding updates on phones because they didn't sell. Or is your argument that those were non-Lumia the dead horse you'll bring up again?

    And don't bring the 8X into this. Or the 8S. By MSFT's standards the 8S wasn't going to get Windows 10 as a 512MB device. Where HTC crippled the 8S was with the components - 4GB ROM, 512MB RAM, etc. HTC was relatively transparent with the update process for the 8X - there was issues on some of the models supplied international carriers and that's why they skipped some updates or dropped some.

    Carriers don't care what brand sells, as long as it sells. If it doesn't, they hem and haw about updates. Bottom line.

    No one has liked what HTC has contributed to here, but to blame them solely is narrow minded. No one is giving them a free pass either.

    Oh, and call me when the Fierce XL sales slow down and T-Mobile feels it isn't selling and throws it away. Becuase as much as MSFT talks it'll push updates without carriers, until i see it consistently, i won't buy that one...just like you won't buy another HTC phone.

    Posted approved via Moto Maxx
    03-26-2016 06:06 AM
  8. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I love this ideology that people have. Let's call people sheep because they are fans and are happy with a product? I wonder what the term would be for users who constantly bash a company/product? LOL

    You are right, I have carrier experience first-hand. I know that. I also know that OEMs have a notoriously bad track record(On the Android side) updating their phones. It's just even longer on carrier models. So you cant blame the carrier for everytime some OEM backtracks on a update. You can only blame them when they deliberately refuse to update the phone which has happened.

    I am comparing the carrier model of the 1520 vs the Carrier model of the M8 windows. I am comparing the carrier model of the 920(and most Lumia phones) to the HTC 8x/8s......so you're not making much sense here.

    I had some mild experience with Windows Phone 7 but at that time I was an android fanboy (dark times in my mobile life) and I joined as a fan in the Windows Phone 8 era with the HTC 8x as my first Windows phone. What is hilarious is how you guys try to paint me as some HTC basher...when ironically, I always preferred HTC to begin with Android (My Droid Eris, incredible, Aria, EVo 4G, EVO 3d, Sensation and DNA were some of my best android phones) and I started my official WP experience with HTC only to discover they sucked royally and got Lumia.

    I am bringing the 8x/8s into it...because their customers were jerked around during the WP 8.1 launch. Will we get it? No...Wait we will? Cool..Wait, we aren't?

    But sure let's give HTC a pass for that. It's no different than HTC with their WP7 devices(the international versions) that often didn't get updated.

    Why do I blame HTC?

    1. It's their phone.....you can't blame Microsoft. Blame the carriers if you wish, but this has little if anything to do with Microsoft?

    2. Your phone sales suck already for Android? You release recycled hardware with a NEW OS like 6 months later after the android version and you expect people to want hand-me downs? And you wonder why it didn't sell.

    I always said it is hilarious how people would rather hold on to older hardware and not buy the M8 windows despite the fact it was the only flagship in the US to get in the first place....

    3. HTC didn't market the device really...it was an after-thought.

    4. HTC has a horrible track record with Android(worse so) than Windows Phone. HTC has done little to fix their image/reputation and that is why they are struggling as they are now. Being beaten by Lumia on WP and Samsung and multitude of OEMs on Android.

    5. HTC offered literally nothing compelling...their HTC app sucked in comparison to the Lumia apps(irrelevant now since they have been discontinued or became globally available unfortunately to all Windows phone). Their camera sucked against Lumias...and there was no compelling reason for the masses to buy it(the Windows or android version) compared to competitors.

    In the end, HTC is to blame because their poor decisions, poor marketing and release.....is precisely why their phone had low sales despite no competition. Those low sales are due to poor actions and that is why they are not updating it. Because they did nothing for it and in the end, got nothing but like probably at best 5,000 users and I am being whole-heartedly generous here with that number. It took a year and a half for HTC M8 to even show up on the Aduplex stats.

    As far as the fierce XL, it's a low-end phone.....so it likely has the potential to do well enough. Then again, we saw what Tmobile did to Lumia 640 but Alcatel seems to be working with Microsoft closely so we may see them still get support regardless of Tmobile.

    As it stands, Alcatel has yet to disappoint and are planning that superphone which should be exciting.

    I may even rock a non-lumia flagship....

    After all, so far, the Alcatel has been getting all the updates the 950(international) have gotten. It got redstone before any of the older flagships. So I don't see why in the near future it wouldn't continue to do so. try again.
    Well, we'll agree to disagree on some of this.

    For the record since you really used a HTC model on Android, they've had a very nice run in terms of software support from the M7 onwards on a flagship level. There was a fuss when the M7 was left on 5.0.2 (GPE got 5.1.1.), but considering it started out on 4.1.2, that's a very good run of support. If you look at what has happened for their 2015 higher end models, they're running on 6.0.1. So for a company who is a leaking $$$, at least in that regard, they're doing a decent job. Better than market leader Samsung by miles, for many reasons.

    HTC's issue in Android is the incorrect compromises they made in hardware, especially on the camera front. Better cameras on the M7 and M8 and they would have sold more. Better camera and Qualcomm not screwing many OEMs last year with the S810 chip and we have a different story for the M9. HTC hasn't been able to advance many of the innovations they brought to Android in a standout way to the point where other OEMs have borrowed their ideas and have either caught up or made their ideas no longer a stand out feature. Plus, no one makes money in Android on handsets anyways out side of Samsung. Yes the points you made about marketing are valid because like cameras, that's been a persistent weakness for HTC. They relied on the capital they built up as the premier OEMs in the HTC Hero days too much sell phones and that doesn't work anymore.

    The thing is we don't know how contracts are written between OEMs and these US carriers. The assumption is often that the US carriers make more changes to the model of the phone becuase they have bigger user bases to generate revenue from if the phone was a hit. They assume a fair amount of risk to buy phones and have them sit on shelves if they don't sell and managing returns and such. That's why you see AT&T take on all sorts of phone like the HTC First...they probably ordered a few batches and if they take off, orders get renewed. If the phone flops, the carrier can write off those users because other models can cover the lost revenue from subscribers who left the carrier because of lack of support. Some of those users will ditch the phone and stay with the carrier, so the carrier doesn't lose there either. OEM gets hurt because it's one less user owning the product. OEMs get hurt when phone orders aren't renewed. So there's no reason for an OEM to not push out an update if it distracts from their ability to make a profit. They're trying to make money after all.

    Carriers look at users as subscribers who they gain and lose all the time (which i know you know this very well). They have better metrics as who is likely to stay with the carrier than who is flightly enough to leave. When contracts were King, carriers were more inclined to exclusive deals because if the phone took off or matched the hype, people are more likely to commit to switching carriers to get what they want. Now we've got the current tricks of leasing phones to upgrade.

    If you really read the history of the Windows phone 7 in the US market, the carriers had people by the balls here. MSFT didn't has as much clout to negotiate directly with the carriers, so they had to go through the OEMs such as HTC and Samsung. Where MSFT had an edge was over Nokia in the US market...so MSFT probably leveraged their comparatively known stance to help Nokia get into the US market with the Lumia 900/Lumia 710 etc. If it wasn't the case, then you really wouldn't be seeing the level of growth here in the numbers for unlocked phones. Some people are getting tired of buying carrier phones because they want to maximize their phone's self life as not everyone has the $$$ to buy new phones on yearly cycles.

    My overall point is that there is a lot of blame to go around to a lot of people, and picking one element to blame solely (for assign most of the blame to) is short-sighted. On a personal level, as a cellphone owner since 2002 and actively following the industry since 2004, I've seen some companies create long enough track records that state that's whow they do business. MSFT since 2003SE has always left some people behind, moreso a bit more than they really should have. They're trying to change this, and I wish them well, but I'm still skeptical as it's too well written in their DNA.

    But the beauty of life is everyone's their own person so you cannot tell people what to choose to believe.

    Approved by Z3 Tablet Compact!
    03-26-2016 08:45 AM
  9. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    And Micah,

    Why I said using the US carrier models of the 920, 1520 vs the M8 and 8X and talking about the 8S aren't as compelling is for the simple reason that only the M8 didn't have an international variant. Outside of the US the cellphone business model is completely different. The Lumia Icon was heavily marketed and yet was EOL'ed with nine months. Maybe it gets windows 10 but i doubt that. HTC as far as the 8X goes was pretty transparent about their updates. They muddled the 8S affair, but what else is new there? They've muddled a few phones before, will do so in the future...just like all OEMs do. They crippled the phone with the internals they gave it, but they were trying to compete with the Lumia 620s and Lumia 720s of the world at the time. I don't agree with what they did, but they did what they did to try to make a $ and got burned for it.

    M8 was a placeholder flagship and a concept model at the time. HTC wasn't going to design a brand new Windows phone during the time when MSFT wasn't really pushing flagships and weren't moving as much high end units as they were cheap models. You do realize it takes months to do prototypes and narrow down design and such? LG showed some G5 prototype phones at MWC just to show how much changes a phone's design undergoes. With the M8, the concept was tried to see if using known hardware and giving people OS choice was something that would catch on. The only maket they could try that in was the US. HTC was open to making an international M8 if there was demand and strong US sales. And I can remember clearly you ******** about HTC doing the "recycled hardware bit" because it makes Joe average consumer more confused when they want an Android M8 and they go to buy one and the Windows version looks the same (a very valid point).

    I could list more things but I'm not in the mood to spend my weekend flogging dead horses.

    So yeah, lots of stuff set up the M8 for a lack of success. For the 10 people who bought theirs and liked it (including myself), they're bummed about not getting the update. But let's not **** on their choices because they bought what they liked and you liked what you bought better and are trying to sell how much better your "better option" is...when it really isn't that much better.

    Approved by Z3 Tablet Compact!
    03-26-2016 09:05 AM
  10. Muessig's Avatar
    OP, I'm sorry to see you've had a bad experience with HTC and Windows Phone but we do have a specific thread for if you're planning to leave the platform, which you can find here: http://forums.windowscentral.com/gen...tm#post3446801

    Everyone else, this thread has become a series of discussions over HTC and MS and really isn't all that relevant to the OP anymore. Closed.
    03-26-2016 11:15 AM
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