[tampacoder]

For those that didn't know, I did previously own a TITAN and after about 20 days, I gave it up and went back to Verizon (Trophy) for issues outlined in this thread.

So, with 10 days still left on my trial period, I cancelled my contract and returned the phone. I had nothing to lose since I took advantage of that penny sale on the Sat after Thanksgiving. I was getting ready to pay off my account and lo and behold--yes, that's old English speak..lol--my bill came up to about $460+ and you know the first thing that popped in my head. First word started with a "W" and last word with an "F" with a "T" sandwich between.

I called AT&T very calm and collected and got a nice rep who did all the research and probable discovered they made a mistake and provided me with a case number so the "early termination" team can call me back hopefully to inform me that they will credit my account. Just for the record, I ain't paying that $325...Period! They said my callback date is on 1/3 so I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[Rocket_Girl]

Wow. That stinks. Love how they presume 'charged' until you prove otherwise. And to top it all off: Don't call us, we'll call you. WTF is right..

Having left at&t because of the device, this is a pretty good way for them to ensure that you *stay* away because of the carrier! Glad to see that the Trophy is working out well for you!

[tmotytn]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

I had the same issue with Sprint when the EVO dropped...it should work out fine, pain in the arse, though...

[palandri]

I know a guy that had the same thing happen to him with Verizon. The most Verizon would do for him was put him on a 100 minute plan for $20 a month for 2 years. :D

[TMavC5]

Similar to the activation fee. You have to call them and waive the activation fee. Kind of lame it is part of the promotional deal.

Sent from my {HTC Titan} using Board Express

[HeyCori]

I know a guy that had the same thing happen to him with Verizon. The most Verizon would do for him was put him on a 100 minute plan for $20 a month for 2 years. :D

I had the same problem with AT&T many years ago. They refused to fix an overcharge on my account. One call to the Better Business Bureau fixed that.

[palandri]

I had the same problem with AT&T many years ago. They refused to fix an overcharge on my account. One call to the Better Business Bureau fixed that.

Smart move to call the Better Business Bureau. I wish I would have thought of that.

I dumped AT&T for a couple of years due to some crazy roaming charges showing up on my bill. The roaming charges happened when I was in northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. I am sure I was roaming on some small GSM network up there, but I shouldn't have roaming charges. I called about them and they corrected a couple of them, but not all of them. I finally got tired of calling about them and switched to T-Mobile for a couple of years.

I've been back with AT&T for almost 3 years now and haven't had any billing problems.

[kevm14]

I recently discovered that AT&T bills in advance (my first bill was like twice as high as I expected it to be), which is not how I was billed at Sprint previously. What's worse is, if I cancel or otherwise terminate service, that extra month is basically gone. So it's even worse than them holding on to that extra $125+ until you are no longer a customer, but you can't even get that back and MAY have to pay an ETF on top of it depending on when you leave. I think that's BS but the rep explained that all customers are billed this way now.

[jimski]

Playing devils advocate for a minute. What happens when a few million users a month do this, "try a phone on another network and return within 30 days" thing. Who pays for that (returned phones, connection fees, setup costs). The answer is all of us on our monthly bills. Curious, do other countries have policies as flexible as the US. Monthly costs are lower so I am guessing no.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

[Rocket_Girl]

Jimski, Policies In Europe are actually more flexible, just in a different way. Phones are not "locked" to one carrier - instead, many customers use prepaid service and can switch easily from one carrier to another with a only a new SIM. There is no GSM/CDMA incompatibility because the rest of the world is on GSM. You're right that we all absorb costs, but trial period for new device and/or carrier before making a two-year commitment seems like one of the few consumer-focused policies that exist in the US.

[threed61]

Playing devils advocate for a minute. What happens when a few million users a month do this, "try a phone on another network and return within 30 days" thing. Who pays for that (returned phones, connection fees, setup costs). The answer is all of us on our monthly bills. Curious, do other countries have policies as flexible as the US. Monthly costs are lower so I am guessing no.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

Just playing consumers advocate, if a company says 30 day trial then there should be no sneaky games played. It's a part of doing business and no different than all customers having to pay for advertising, giveaways, etc.

[rdifiori]

I had sourdough toast with butter this morning. It was very good.

[palandri]

Playing devils advocate for a minute. What happens when a few million users a month do this, "try a phone on another network and return within 30 days" thing. Who pays for that (returned phones, connection fees, setup costs). The answer is all of us on our monthly bills. Curious, do other countries have policies as flexible as the US. Monthly costs are lower so I am guessing no.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

Maybe carriers should carry a couple of trial phones that people could use for a week. Just a thought.

[kg4icg]

Jimski, Policies In Europe are actually more flexible, just in a different way. Phones are not "locked" to one carrier - instead, many customers use prepaid service and can switch easily from one carrier to another with a only a new SIM. There is no GSM/CDMA incompatibility because the rest of the world is on GSM. You're right that we all absorb costs, but trial period for new device and/or carrier before making a two-year commitment seems like one of the few consumer-focused policies that exist in the US.

Why do people think that Verizon and Sprint are the only 2 using CDMA. There are carrriers in Europe, Russia, Asia, South America. It's just that GSM is the predominant cellphone system. And less secure, especially if someone steals your phone.

[palandri]

Why do people think that Verizon and Sprint are the only 2 using CDMA. There are carrriers in Europe, Russia, Asia, South America. It's just that GSM is the predominant cellphone system. And less secure, especially if someone steals your phone.

Who are the CDMA carriers in Europe? I've never seen one in France and I think I stop at every mobile carrier store I see to look at phones (which drives my wife nuts).

I've never looked deeply into CDMA, but I have read that they also have CDMA in China, but with CDMA in China, you get a CDMA phones with a CDMA SIM type card so you can switch carriers. I also read they have CDMA in Japan and a couple of resort towns in Mexico.

How secure is CDMA in the states now, when you can bring any CDMA phone into a Cricket store and they'll flash it to work on their network?

[TheWeeBear]

Here's a little interesting info. Well it is if you're interested. :D

Going wireless in Europe

Going wireless in Europe: what you need to know about cell phones | La Photo Vita

Data

Going mobile in Europe part 2: data services | La Photo Vita

:)

(I've never heard of a single European network that uses CDMA)

[kg4icg]

Who are the CDMA carriers in Europe? I've never seen one in France and I think I stop at every mobile carrier store I see to look at phones (which drives my wife nuts).

I've never looked deeply into CDMA, but I have read that they also have CDMA in China, but with CDMA in China, you get a CDMA phones with a CDMA SIM type card so you can switch carriers. I also read they have CDMA in Japan and a couple of resort towns in Mexico.

How secure is CDMA in the states now, when you can bring any CDMA phone into a Cricket store and they'll flash it to work on their network?

Flashing a cdma phone for a different network is basically wiping all previous data on the phone for new. If the esn was locked by previous carrier or customer which will show up on a blacklist then the phone is unusable, unless someone stoops to the unscrupolous matter of changing the esn, which is against the law. All that is required of a GSM phone is swapping the sim card.

[palandri]

Here's a little interesting info. Well it is if you're interested. :D

Going wireless in Europe

Going wireless in Europe: what you need to know about cell phones | La Photo Vita

Data

Going mobile in Europe part 2: data services | La Photo Vita

:)

(I've never heard of a single European network that uses CDMA)

Yup!

I always get a couple of pay as you go SIM cards in France. It saves a bundle. Then I have my local AT&T voicemail setup for email notification. The email notification is pretty cool, it looks like this:

You received a voicemail from XXX-XXX-XXXX at 06:59:03 PM 12/23/11.

Oh this is Robert Home Depot calling. I'm calling to let you know that your special order is in and ready for pick up. You can pick that up for the special services desk or at the front of the store down by lumber. And thank you for shopping at the shop or Home Depot

To listen to this message, dial into your wireless voicemail and press ##10

Do Not Reply to this Email.

[TheWeeBear]

You're such a European jetsetter palandri, i don't think I would ever want to go there, they all speak funny over there do they not?

Oh Wait!

[palandri]

Flashing a cdma phone for a different network is basically wiping all previous data on the phone for new. If the esn was locked by previous carrier or customer which will show up on a blacklist then the phone is unusable, unless someone stoops to the unscrupolous matter of changing the esn, which is against the law. All that is required of a GSM phone is swapping the sim card.

Is there a hotlist that US Cellular, Sprint and Verizon shares with Cricket?

[threed61]

GSM is used exclusively in Europe. Cdma is also used in Japan, Korea, China and other Asian countries. Cdma signal travels farther than GSM which means you can cover with less towers. GSM has been identified as easier to hack by numerous security experts, though I don't remember why.

[jimski]

Just playing consumers advocate, if a company says 30 day trial then there should be no sneaky games played. It's a part of doing business and no different than all customers having to pay for advertising, giveaways, etc.

Fair enough. So guess I should be doing this then, as I am already paying for it every month. Point is, it sounds like a policy that can easily be abused.

Would like to see a carrier that does not; subsidize phones, handle returns, offer try before you buy, and all the other "free" perks we pay for. Could probably get unlimited everything for about $29.99/month. Anybody got a couple $B to loan me for a startup.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

[threed61]

Fair enough. So guess I should be doing this then, as I am already paying for it every month. Point is, it sounds like a policy that can easily be abused.

Would like to see a carrier that does not; subsidize phones, handle returns, offer try before you buy, and all the other "free" perks we pay for. Could probably get unlimited everything for about $29.99/month. Anybody got a couple $B to loan me for a startup.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

I fear you'll have to relocate to Europe for that, and even some of their carriers subsidize phones.
There is one important reason US carriers have a try it approach. Each carrier does not have the same coverage, and new customers have the ability to make sure that their new phone will work where they need it to work. Unhappy customers and roaming charges can add to the carriers costs too.
Since you're only allowed to change once, I don't see why anyone would abuse it, though I suppose some would.
The minimal approach has been tried by smaller carriers without much success, Americans just seem to like the subsidized phone model better.

[Kon-Aitor]

Playing devils advocate for a minute. What happens when a few million users a month do this, "try a phone on another network and return within 30 days" thing. Who pays for that (returned phones, connection fees, setup costs). The answer is all of us on our monthly bills. Curious, do other countries have policies as flexible as the US. Monthly costs are lower so I am guessing no.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

The cost of doing business. If you want customers to switch, or to upgrade their accounts, than they need incentives. But if your hardware can't keep them, then its your fault for not having good phones. If you offer a 30 day money back guarantee then you have to stick with it. This is why I always buy things with my AMEX. The merchant does something like this, call Amex, 10 min alter charge back processed and I'm of the hook.