10-09-2014 06:15 AM
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  1. fatclue_98's Avatar
    My first reaction to the OP is why? After some soul-searching, I can say "nyet".
    JamesPTao likes this.
    05-29-2014 07:38 PM
  2. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I might, listen I have enjoyed the L920 and L1020 hardware and I really like the OS but the apps are better quality on IOS and thats the only thing I really miss and presuades me to go back to an iphone.
    Buy a good case if they go with saphire. Saphire is beautiful and very scratch resistant but also, unfortunately, very brittle with a tendency for shattering.
    05-29-2014 07:42 PM
  3. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I'm definitely on the fence about it. I've had two 928s, both with hardware problems. I'm thinking of either switching OEMs or switching platforms altogether. Plus I'm liking what I'm hearing about the new iPhone.
    You might try a different device between me,my wife, and best friend have had 7 Nokia phones (4 of them WP, 3 Symbian with 0 hardware issues) might have just been a bad model. My Samsung WP worked fine but felt like a cheap toy and as breakable as one. Give a different model a try I think you'll be happy. If you choose an iPhone that's fine. Just get a great case saphire is quite brittle.
    05-29-2014 07:51 PM
  4. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    While you may not like their mobile devices millions do. And they are not overpriced. Overpriced to you. But economically and by comparing high end smartphones from other platforms they are priced the same.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I agree on the fact millions use them. It's not my job to judge their needs and their likings. I state my needs. They don't match with Apple's. Simple as that. One of the reason why i never judge a user for his choice is that i simply don't know what his need is. I need huge slabs with lots of functions, you may need a small, sturdy one for working in a rugged environment, another may need a good photocamera, one may need waterproofing, another may need a status symbol to be accepted in a group of friends. Judging users for their choices is simply wrong.

    PRICE: I don't know where are you based. I am in Asia as you may know. Till last year In Taiwan, when all other phones were placed on the market at around 20.000NTD/21.000, iPhone (with smaller screen, already obsolete CPUs, less resolution, etc etc.) was selling for 27.000NTD. (6000NTD = 150 euros roughly). Each time i took the metro, it would be thousands of users staring at their iPhone....so i am aware of the gravitational pull of the brand. Things are changing though. Prices have now dropped slightly, and users seem to pick other devices, mostly Android. That's my reality.
    Last edited by EC Translating Services; 05-29-2014 at 08:09 PM.
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    05-29-2014 07:51 PM
  5. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Huh?
    https://ssl.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iOS7.pdf

    Let's add up the whole ecosystem is closed to changes, modifications, etc. Millions of devices looking all alike, without any chance of customization and Apple looming on your head. No thanks. Apart from that, i don't really share a pinch of both ecosystem and business model. The last two are personal tastes. The first part is mainly the reality everyone knows.
    05-29-2014 08:08 PM
  6. A895's Avatar
    I agree on the fact millions use them. It's not my job to judge their needs and their likings. I state my needs. They don't match with Apple's. Simple as that. One of the reason why i never judge a user for his choice is that i simply don't know what his need is. I need huge slabs with lots of functions, you may need a small, sturdy one for working in a rugged environment, another may need a good photocamera, one may need waterproofing, another may need a status symbol to be accepted in a group of friends. Judging users for their choices is simply wrong.

    PRICE: I don't know where are you based. I am in Asia as you may know. Till last year In Taiwan, when all other phones were placed on the market at around 20.000NTD/21.000, iPhone (with smaller screen, already obsolete CPUs, less resolution, etc etc.) was selling for 27.000NTD. (6000NTD = 150 euros roughly). Each time i took the metro, it would be thousands of users staring at their iPhone....so i am aware of the gravitational pull of the brand. Things are changing though. Prices have now dropped slightly, and users seem to pick other devices, mostly Android. That's my reality.
    In the U.S. for example iPhone 5C and 5s range from $549-$650 off contract which is the same range for the Lumia Icon ($549), the M8 ($599) and other flagships. That's why when people say Apple is overpriced, I don't understand why they would say that when they all cost the same.

    Other countries though, the prices for devices can vary greatly.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-30-2014 07:41 AM
  7. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    In the U.S. for example iPhone 5C and 5s range from $549-$650 off contract which is the same range for the Lumia Icon ($549), the M8 ($599) and other flagships. That's why when people say Apple is overpriced, I don't understand why they would say that when they all cost the same.

    Other countries though, the prices for devices can vary greatly.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Yes prices vary a lot In Italy for example iP5C costs more than any other device
    L'iPhone 5c italiano da 8 GB il pi costoso d'Europa - Wired

    8GB: 579 Euro
    16GB: 629 Euro
    32:GB:729 Euros (992.02 USD) (any other top line brand would be 650/699 Euro as a standard)

    You need to consider import costs, operators, Apple market position as a premium brand in most EU markets etc. That adds up to the price. Apple products in many parts of Europe (and in Asia too) are infamously known for their outrageous prices that many consider totally unjustified.
    That's where sometimes we may argue on prices. Coming from different countries the perception changes.
    A895 likes this.
    05-30-2014 09:24 AM
  8. iamtim's Avatar
    You said, "Devices are never really yours as Apple retains rights on them". Where does that PDF say that Apple retains rights to the device?

    Let's add up the whole ecosystem is closed to changes, modifications, etc.
    Except for jailbreaking. Which has been ruled legal. But I concede that most people don't jailbreak and that most iPhones remain in the closed ecosystem.

    ...

    But on the other hand, how is Windows Phone not closed in that same way?
    05-30-2014 09:52 AM
  9. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    You said, "Devices are never really yours as Apple retains rights on them". Where does that PDF say that Apple retains rights to the device?



    Except for jailbreaking. Which has been ruled legal. But I concede that most people don't jailbreak and that most iPhones remain in the closed ecosystem.

    ...

    But on the other hand, how is Windows Phone not closed in that same way?
    If you read the PDF (and those relating to the other devices but phones in particular) it appears clear that the devices are really never yours. I am not even talking about the jailbreaking. I didn't expect you to find a statement saying "Apple claims that the device is never yours". However, there are huge limitations on what you can do, transfer etc. Basically, the device you pay doesn't belong to you. It belongs to Apple. That's my take, especially on phones, i must stress.
    You're right that WP is closed too, but not to the extent to which Apple is. Also, bear in mind i come from Android and before Android Windows Mobile 6/6.5. That OS was anything but closed. If you tried it, you know could do much more than you can with Android, without rooting.

    My argument is that Apple punishes you for whatever you do to the device and goes great lenghts to let you understand that. This limits your freedom to use your investment as you wish. Microsoft is closed (for now) but not to that level. Android is relatively open (compared to the others; trash compared to WinMobile 6.5 in my opinion in that specific area). You buy the device, operator customized, brand customized or just plain vanilla and then do what you want with it, including rooting, changing Roms etc. That's something you can only dream of with Apple. With Apple you're doomed to have a device you can't customize at all.

    Android, WP and Apple have very different philosophies as you know. I am more for WP and Android. WP needs time and people ranting :-).
    05-30-2014 10:14 AM
  10. iamtim's Avatar
    If you read the PDF (and those relating to the other devices but phones in particular) it appears clear that the devices are really never yours.
    Can you point out the clauses and phrases which lead you to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be obstinate; I don't come to that same conclusion and I'm curious about your interpretations.
    05-30-2014 10:34 AM
  11. Jan Tomsic's Avatar
    I never said very Android release is perfect. But 4.4.2. is damn near it. I was referring to the other poster bragging about getting the DP when it was not that good from the beginning.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    My Nexus 7 has never been so slow as it is on 4.4.2.
    When I got it with 4.1 preinstalled, it was the fastest, since then it was all downhill. Also 4.4 is ugly. In my opinion.
    Karthik Naik and JamesPTao like this.
    05-30-2014 11:31 AM
  12. Jan Tomsic's Avatar
    Yes prices vary a lot In Italy for example iP5C costs more than any other device
    L'iPhone 5c italiano da 8 GB il pi costoso d'Europa - Wired

    8GB: 579 Euro
    16GB: 629 Euro
    32:GB:729 Euros (992.02 USD) (any other top line brand would be 650/699 Euro as a standard)

    You need to consider import costs, operators, Apple market position as a premium brand in most EU markets etc. That adds up to the price. Apple products in many parts of Europe (and in Asia too) are infamously known for their outrageous prices that many consider totally unjustified.
    That's where sometimes we may argue on prices. Coming from different countries the perception changes.
    All phones come from China, import costs are the same. Apple just charges more because it can.
    In Telekom Slovenia iPhone 5S is the most expensive phone you can get.
    Galaxy S5, HTC M8 are 24x23€, 1520 (32GB) is 24x22€, 16GB iP 5S is 24x24,12€ and 32gb and 64gb are 28,2 and 32,5€ per month for two years.
    It's by far the most expensive phone, even though other flagships cost almost the same (16GB variants), so 16GB is not all that overpriced, but ones with more memory certainly are, especially because you can buy 64GB or even 128GB SD card for the price difference. Yet somehow they're always sold out.
    05-30-2014 11:40 AM
  13. In Limbo's Avatar
    Blasphemy! Delete this thread!
    JamesPTao likes this.
    05-30-2014 11:43 AM
  14. freestaterocker's Avatar
    Blasphemy! Delete this thread!
    Or just let people spend their money however they like... I personally can't stand IOS, but I do recognize that some prefer it, even having tried other OSs. Honestly if I could stomach IOS in even small doses (and if it worked with Xbox music pass) I would pick up an iTouch for music in the car. Because gapless playback.
    05-30-2014 06:38 PM
  15. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Wait, iPhones are cheaper in India?
    I have to ask about your avatar and I hope its not too soon.

    We all know everyone in heaven uses WP and that everyone in the other place gets iPhones, But how do you know where Steve went?

    05-31-2014 07:29 AM
  16. JamesPTao's Avatar
    In the U.S. for example iPhone 5C and 5s range from $549-$650 off contract which is the same range for the Lumia Icon ($549), the M8 ($599) and other flagships. That's why when people say Apple is overpriced, I don't understand why they would say that when they all cost the same.

    Other countries though, the prices for devices can vary greatly.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Not a fair comparison! That Iphone has been out for a while. A better comparison would be the Lumia 920 as it has been out about as long.
    Karthik Naik and BobLobIaw like this.
    05-31-2014 08:39 AM
  17. A895's Avatar
    Not a fair comparison! That Iphone has been out for a while. A better comparison would be the Lumia 920 as it has been out about as long.
    The 5C and 5S is from 2013! What are you smoking? The 920 is from 2012! A fair comparison is any of the products I just mentioned before.

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    anon5997296 likes this.
    05-31-2014 01:35 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    The 5C and 5S is from 2013! What are you smoking? The 920 is from 2012! A fair comparison is any of the products I just mentioned before.

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    I mean, technically, the 5C is the iPhone 5 with a plastic coating. The internals are the same.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    05-31-2014 01:40 PM
  19. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I mean, technically, the 5C is the iPhone 5 with a plastic coating. The internals are the same.
    exactly id rather get a 4s if not for the larger screen for a lesser price locally
    05-31-2014 01:48 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    I mean, technically, the 5C is the iPhone 5 with a plastic coating. The internals are the same.
    But they are different models, so it still makes it relevant.

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    05-31-2014 02:03 PM
  21. Jan Tomsic's Avatar
    I mean, technically, the 5C is the iPhone 5 with a plastic coating. The internals are the same.
    That's true, but it was released the same time as 5S.
    A fair(er) comparison would be 5C and 925, since they're both just re-coated last years model.
    05-31-2014 03:19 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    That's true, but it was released the same time as 5S.
    A fair(er) comparison would be 5C and 925, since they're both just re-coated last years model.
    It's not fair at all to compare devices based on internals alone. We are comparing them on time of release and off contract price.

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    05-31-2014 04:19 PM
  23. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Can you point out the clauses and phrases which lead you to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be obstinate; I don't come to that same conclusion and I'm curious about your interpretations.
    Hi Tim,

    I don't thinkg you are obstinate. I stated something. You want more information. I agree it's fair. Let's go see a bit and then i'll explain you why i think what i think:

    1. General.
    (a) The software (including Boot ROM code and other embedded software), documentation, interfaces,
    content, fonts and any data that came with your iOS Device ("Original iOS Software"), as may be
    updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or system restore software provided by
    Apple ("iOS Software Updates"), whether in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form
    (the Original iOS Software and iOS Software Updates are collectively referred to as the “iOS Software")
    are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. ("Apple") for use only under the terms of this License. Apple
    and its licensors retain ownership of the iOS Software itself and reserve all rights not expressly granted
    to you....

    - It's true many others have the same take on this. However Apple has been pursuing this area with unprecedented aggressivity.

    e. This License does not grant you any rights to use Apple proprietary interfaces and other
    intellectual property in the design,
    development, manufacture, licensing or distribution of third party
    devices and accessories, or third party software applications, for use with iOS Devices

    - This doesn't exist in Android for example. You simply do whatever you like. And that's why you have such a variety of things you can do on it.

    (c) You may not, and you agree not to or enable others to, copy (except as expressly permitted by this
    License), decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt,
    modify, or create derivative works of the iOS Software or any services provided by the iOS Software or
    any part thereof (except as and only to the extent any foregoing restriction is prohibited by applicable
    law or by licensing terms governing use of open-source components that may be included with the iOS
    Software).

    - Again, this is case of striking difference between open and close ecosystems. I agree you'll tell me WP is the same after you read this. However A) Android is not and B) Microsoft since Mobile 6.5 has always been very very flexible in regards to this. Apple is famous for being very very selfish and greedy and protective in these areas.

    3. Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, redistribute, or sublicense the iOS Software. You may,
    however, make a one-time permanent transfer of all of your license rights to the iOS Software to another
    party in connection with the transfer of ownership of your iOS Device, provided that: (a) the transfer must
    include your iOS Device and all of the iOS Software, including all its component parts, original media,
    printed materials and this License; (b) you do not retain any copies of the iOS Software, full or partial,
    including copies stored on a computer or other storage device; and (c) the party receiving the iOS
    Software reads and agrees to accept the terms and conditions of this License.

    The section above looks perfectly in line with all major software producers, EXCEPT section B is at times not seen in other products.

    These are just a few. We have to consider not only the striking difference between OPEN and CLOSED OS (And whatever stays in the middle, like WP in my opinion) but also the way Apple has built a reputation as very selfish aggressive company in protecting its own devices.

    This adds up to what i said before. It's a very closed system that doesn't allow for the level of flexibility users like me require and doesn't offer the level of "perceived liberty of choice" people like me want in their device.

    Bear in mind that is not just my interpretation. It's how Apple is considered and perceived by a vast variety of users in Europe and Asia. The fact such limitations come at a higher price in our markets just worsens the opinion on the product. This is a generic outlook. My personal stance is also that i follow any company allowing me free to create or customize my device without affecting my privacy (too much). Android used to be this. Since Google "evolved" its strategy compelling users to join G+ i got the same reaction and distanced myself from their platform. It's gradual..but it's happening.

    So summing up, my opinion on Apple is not only due to the fact they have certain legal limitations open systems don't have (and some closed ones take more flexibly), but also in the way they attack users to keep their ecosystem protected. It's a concept i don't share. That is why i claimed "They are never yours". Something you can't customize, change, modify and has so many limitations can't be yours. iOS and Windows represent a good example in this. I buy a copy of Windows 8 and then can do so much stuff on it (despite MSFT limitations on paper) that the system becomes mine. On iOS you can't. Android allows you to do whatever you want, Linux goes a step further. This also reflects in their mobile platforms.

    Hope this explains better.
    anon(6038817) and guillams like this.
    05-31-2014 10:52 PM
  24. Jas00555's Avatar
    Good lord, everytime I see this thread pop up, I think it says Wii U purchase iPhone 6 and I get so confused. Hate you, OP ;)
    A895 likes this.
    05-31-2014 11:01 PM
  25. anon5997296's Avatar
    Good lord, everytime I see this thread pop up, I think it says Wii U purchase iPhone 6 and I get so confused. Hate you, OP ;)
    Same here.. :-P
    06-01-2014 04:15 AM
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