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  1. Joe920's Avatar
    I wonder if the thread title should be edited to state "MS phone rep says ..". I mean the title is long enough as it is, but right now it reads as if this is some kind of official MS stand. Admittedly it is kind of an entry level device, but I'd be surprised if this were the official message.
    11-02-2014 12:16 PM
  2. gpobernardo's Avatar
    I once* had the Instant Heart Rate app and it was quite accurate... most of the time**. It requires covering the LED flash beside the main camera and the entire main camera lens in order to detect discolorations underneath the skin caused by oxygenated blood flow - this makes prolonged continuous use impractical, unless you're willing to drain your battery in less than an hour. So I was all ears when the Microsoft Band was launched, and I was especially expecting that the band performed as well as the app but with a much longer battery life.

    However, it's news and feedback like these that reflect the insights of those who already have had their chance to interact with the product; seems like I'll have to stick to wearing automatics for now (as I have in the past 18 years).

    *- Doesn't work with the Lumia 1020 since the LED flash is too far away from the main camera lens cover. I used the app with the HTC 8s.

    **- I'm saying, "most of the time," because it occasionally "failed" to detect any pulse (usually because my finger was not covering the entire lens or because there were interfering light sources nearby), but when it did it never missed a beat. I'm not sure how the band works since I don't have one yet, but I'm guessing that the inaccuracies in the Microsoft Band are caused by the HRM not being in total and continuous contact with the skin of the wearer, causing either false or phantom pulses to be detected. The HRM could be very accurate if it remains in contact with the skin and if it runs continuously, but that still doesn't make it as reliable as professional medical equipment.
    11-02-2014 01:24 PM
  3. greyskytheory's Avatar
    If anyone is counting on this device to track your workout metrics in deep, accurate detail you're looking in the wrong place. You'll need to get a Garmin, Suunto etc. For all of the functionality the Band delivers it is a great device but I didn't expect it to be dead on accurate or provide tons of insight into my workouts. We all need to manage our expectations. This $200 wearable does things my $500 Suunto can't. happy it provides a depiction of my daily activities.
    kittengirl, mados123 and forked like this.
    11-02-2014 01:27 PM
  4. SteveVII's Avatar
    If anyone is counting on this device to track your workout metrics in deep, accurate detail you're looking in the wrong place. You'll need to get a Garmin, Suunto etc. For all of the functionality the Band delivers it is a great device but I didn't expect it to be dead on accurate or provide tons of insight into my workouts. We all need to manage our expectations. This $200 wearable does things my $500 Suunto can't. happy it provides a depiction of my daily activities.
    I think it is becoming clear to most people that this is the case and we are coming to accept it. I think at this point, a handful of us are disappointed that this isn't a "game changer", which is how the press responded to it. I think if we shouldn't count on this device to track my workouts accurately, then Microsoft should take down this post asap: Microsoft Band, the first wearable powered by Microsoft Health, keeps fitness and productivity insights a glance away | News Center .
    teemulehtinen likes this.
    11-02-2014 01:35 PM
  5. Joe920's Avatar
    I think it is becoming clear to most people that this is the case and we are coming to accept it.
    Maybe in part, but some of us want to see more data! I don't expect the device to outperform high end devices, but it kind of looks like it could do pretty well. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the raw data of this kind of sensor looks? Maybe an enterprising user can open this sensor up and hook up the detector readout to a good ole' digitizing oscilloscope? Might be hard to get to the contacts though.
    11-02-2014 01:44 PM
  6. debad's Avatar
    Will the iWatch be more advanced? Talk about that made me think MS might have made a significant step in wrist monitoring. Should have waited till the reviews were out, but was fun testing anyway.
    11-02-2014 02:00 PM
  7. phillyphan23's Avatar
    Which way are you wearing the band? I normally wear it "reversed" (display on palm side of hand). Used it during a stationary bike session and found the band was reading much lower than the bike heart rate display with Polar chest strap sensor. I switched the band halfway through the 30 min session and both the band and bike tracked pretty closely.
    11-02-2014 02:33 PM
  8. ChumsFuture's Avatar
    I just climbed up and down stairs with either a walk or jog in between each set of stairs.

    I have a theory. I believe there's a severe lag with the heart rate displayed on the Band compared to actual heart rate. I noticed when I'm walking after finishing going up a set of stairs, my heart rate displayed was high, yet when I'm actually on the stairs going up, huffing and puffing, the displayed heart rate is more like my actual walking heart rate. Yet, after my workout, I look at the app and I've got all the proper data, with all it's peaks and valleys, that are consistent with this type of workout.

    If your workout is steady like a long jog, the displayed heart rate should be close to actual. However, workouts with peaks and valleys in heart rate, the displayed heart rate is lagging and playing catch up.
    Joe920 likes this.
    11-02-2014 02:51 PM
  9. Joe920's Avatar
    So for anyone doing tests, please note:
    - whether you wear the band facing in or out (inside of wrist or on top of wrist)
    - which mode you use (running or 'workout')
    - which type of sport you're doing
    - which comparison device you're using if any (brand, HR strap?)
    - whether your band shows 'out of sync' (heart icon outline only) or 'in sync' (solid heart icon)

    Personally I see pretty good agreement when the band claims to be in HR sync, the problem being that it loses sync a lot.
    11-02-2014 03:07 PM
  10. shawncade's Avatar
    You are correct, the Band's heart rate monitor is very inaccurate and erratic, to the point it is useless. I have compared it to a Polar that has proven accurate during a stress test and when actually locked the rate can be 40 bpm's off. Also, it is always searching for a heart rate.

    If you car about an accurate HR don't buy the band. I will be returning it but I really wanted to keep it.
    11-02-2014 08:47 PM
  11. foofighter#AC's Avatar
    If your pulse gets up to 160 playing tennis - go see a doctor.
    I'm 45 and when i'm cycling, my avg HR is 150-155 so that's not far off. When I'm really on the rivot i've been up to 180 but try to keep it below that as recovery would be a little longer to accomplish.

    To the OP, I did a run yesterday and it seemed about right when I rand w/ the H7 Polar HR strap
    11-02-2014 09:37 PM
  12. SteveVII's Avatar
    Yeah... it just seems way off all the time. When outside of exercise modes, I've noticed that the HR often locks in at a higher heartrate, and takes about 5-10 seconds to drop down and truly lock in on my heart rate. This might be why my heart rate seems high after analyzing sleep activity. Think there is any chance they will push an update before the 14 day return policy is up? Really hoping they can address this through software, else the band is dead to me, unfortunately.
    11-02-2014 09:57 PM
  13. foofighter#AC's Avatar
    Yeah... it just seems way off all the time. When outside of exercise modes, I've noticed that the HR often locks in at a higher heartrate, and takes about 5-10 seconds to drop down and truly lock in on my heart rate. This might be why my heart rate seems high after analyzing sleep activity. Think there is any chance they will push an update before the 14 day return policy is up? Really hoping they can address this through software, else the band is dead to me, unfortunately.
    14 days? The person at MS store told me 3 days to return LOL
    11-02-2014 10:10 PM
  14. SteveVII's Avatar
    Cool, I'll make a profit on eBay then ;-).
    sanva likes this.
    11-02-2014 10:12 PM
  15. mados123's Avatar
    Interesting discussion here regarding the accuracy of the device. I would guess that with the sensor on the inside of the wrist, it would absolutely be more accurate due to the vasularity being more superficial and in abundance on that side.

    If your pulse gets up to 160 playing tennis - go see a doctor.
    Regarding this comment, it is just not accurate as others have said. One major cause for the HR to go up that high (assuming this is an older person as a younger or more fit middle aged would be able to handle that normally during tennis) is due to what is called the 'Valsalva Maneuver' which people will perform (mostly unknowingly) to stabilize their core if their muscles aren't conditioned to properly to so on their own. The effect of essentially holding one's breath and constricting the descending aorta by the diaphragm is the response of the heart rate to increase and spike to a level that is not consistent with a workout with regular breathing and associated exertion. Also, you will get an immediate drop in blood pressure during that time the constriction is happening but then a bump in blood pressure as well. To use a most familiar experience as an example, it would explain why you might start sweating while/after you take a dump regardless of the fact you had a normal heart rate when you sat down (that along with a reflexive response to earlier vagus nerve stimulation). While seeing a doctor is recommended for health in general, a strength and conditioning specialist might be more appropriate to keep that HR controlled :-)

    Hemodynamics of a Valsalva Maneuver
    gpobernardo likes this.
    11-02-2014 10:52 PM
  16. smurfalarm's Avatar
    14 days? The person at MS store told me 3 days to return LOL
    It takes 3 days for them to credit your money back to your credit card after you return it. Are you thinking of that? I think their hardware return policy is 30 days for the online store. I don't know about in person purchases.
    11-02-2014 11:04 PM
  17. valadon's Avatar
    It takes 3 days for them to credit your money back to your credit card after you return it. Are you thinking of that? I think their hardware return policy is 30 days for the online store. I don't know about in person purchases.
    The store clerk told me 30 days, and the receipt says 30 days as well. So we still have some time to test, and see if Microsoft says anything or provides an update.
    11-02-2014 11:22 PM
  18. Willyman's Avatar
    This is something the consumer will eventually figure out:
    No matter how much marketing hype will be placed on these wrist worn sport watches, so far the technology is not as accurate as a chest strap, which in turn is not as accurate as a proper ECG.

    Most of the current watches are using the exact same technology by the way ... If you see green LEDs, it's Philips Research technology (first popped up in the Mio watch as far as I know).

    EDIT: so yes, Apple watch and Microsoft are using the same tech. :)
    11-03-2014 02:49 AM
  19. sdrexler11791's Avatar
    Interesting discussion here regarding the accuracy of the device. I would guess that with the sensor on the inside of the wrist, it would absolutely be more accurate due to the vasularity being more superficial and in abundance on that side.
    Regarding this comment, it is just not accurate as others have said. One major cause for the HR to go up that high (assuming this is an older person as a younger or more fit middle aged would be able to handle that normally during tennis) is due to what is called the 'Valsalva Maneuver' which people will perform (mostly unknowingly) to stabilize their core if their muscles aren't conditioned to properly to so on their own. The effect of essentially holding one's breath and constricting the descending aorta by the diaphragm is the response of the heart rate to increase and spike to a level that is not consistent with a workout with regular breathing and associated exertion. Also, you will get an immediate drop in blood pressure during that time the constriction is happening but then a bump in blood pressure as well. To use a most familiar experience as an example, it would explain why you might start sweating while/after you take a dump regardless of the fact you had a normal heart rate when you sat down (that along with a reflexive response to earlier vagus nerve stimulation). While seeing a doctor is recommended for health in general, a strength and conditioning specialist might be more appropriate to keep that HR controlled :-)

    Hemodynamics of a Valsalva Maneuver

    Hey guys, all bets are off on your comments as you have no idea what my age, medical conditions, medical history, medications and level of fitness are. I will tell you that my heart rate only spiked this high briefly after playing a long a hard point. So stop speculating. I was only trying to illustrate that the band accurately measured my heart rate when compared against my actual pulse taken by feeling it and counting with a watch.

    I happen to be a physician, and am well aware of my medical conditions and level of fitness.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    11-03-2014 05:02 AM
  20. Jazmac's Avatar
    To the OP, I would return it. I would also make sure Polar was working to efficiency since this is what you compare it to. But if your MS Band is that much inaccurate, I'd get my 200 bucks back and simply wait for a better model or the update to come out. Then I would wait on reports before buying again.
    MikeSo likes this.
    11-03-2014 07:55 AM
  21. MikeSo's Avatar
    This is something the consumer will eventually figure out:
    No matter how much marketing hype will be placed on these wrist worn sport watches, so far the technology is not as accurate as a chest strap, which in turn is not as accurate as a proper ECG.

    Most of the current watches are using the exact same technology by the way ... If you see green LEDs, it's Philips Research technology (first popped up in the Mio watch as far as I know).

    EDIT: so yes, Apple watch and Microsoft are using the same tech. :)
    I agree. There's a reason that there haven't been any accurate, inexpensive wrist HR monitors built into all-in-one devices meant to always be worn - it's REALLY hard to do! I think they can be useful and offer value, but for those who are serious about getting exact readings to maximize serious workout efficiency or monitor health, they need to get dedicated devices. That goes for pretty much everything in life - dedicated devices are always better and more accurate.

    But for the rest of us, I think these devices are good enough, especially when measuring progress. If you start out with a HR reading pn the Band of 100 and 3 months later it's 90, that shows progress. If it REALLY was 90 and went to 78, that's less important for most.
    11-03-2014 09:47 AM
  22. mados123's Avatar
    I happen to be a physician, and am well aware of my medical conditions and level of fitness.
    Glad to hear you are in tune with your body. I'm sure others will benefit from the educational information provided though.
    11-03-2014 09:54 AM
  23. JamesPTao's Avatar
    This is something the consumer will eventually figure out:
    No matter how much marketing hype will be placed on these wrist worn sport watches, so far the technology is not as accurate as a chest strap, which in turn is not as accurate as a proper ECG.

    Most of the current watches are using the exact same technology by the way ... If you see green LEDs, it's Philips Research technology (first popped up in the Mio watch as far as I know).

    EDIT: so yes, Apple watch and Microsoft are using the same tech. :)
    People should keep I mind even the hr measuring devices nurses use are very sensitive to vibration. So any unit using this method for measuring hr will have issues when being active. If you want accuracy, as mentioned, get a chest strap. You are right. Unfortunately most reviewers blame the device when innacuracies are from the method, not the device.
    mados123 likes this.
    11-03-2014 10:30 AM
  24. SteveVII's Avatar
    So the microsoft news post where they talk about directly going after the strap was a lie?
    11-03-2014 12:24 PM
  25. theefman's Avatar
    So the microsoft news post where they talk about directly going after the strap was a lie?
    You could always ask them.
    11-03-2014 12:28 PM
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