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06-07-2015 11:47 AM
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  1. OberstDanjeje's Avatar
    I'd like to share my sleeping track just to check if my sleeping time is good enought compared to other

    04-03-2015.jpg
    10-02-2015.jpg
    gadgetrants likes this.
    03-05-2015 03:17 AM
  2. gadgetrants's Avatar
    You're COMPETITIVE about your sleep!?!??!!! LOL

    I'm have no intention of posting my sleep data (actually I think I posted some back in November). You get 2 hours of restful sleep a night and I'm not even close to that! I feel like a sleep failure.

    -Matt
    Last edited by gadgetrants; 03-05-2015 at 02:32 PM.
    03-05-2015 12:33 PM
  3. kenjancef's Avatar
    Same here... lol... If I get over an hour of restful sleep I'm lucky...
    gadgetrants likes this.
    03-05-2015 01:39 PM
  4. DroidUser42's Avatar
    Wait, 8 hours of sleep and 2 hours of restful sleep? Must be nice. Mine is usually 6/1. Maybe more if I can sleep in on a cold day.
    03-05-2015 03:50 PM
  5. OberstDanjeje's Avatar
    Those are some of the best one, often I have just one hour of restful sleep.
    And about woke up?
    5 to 10 woke up for night it's in the normal range?
    do you think the band it's good enought like sleeping monitor?
    I hask this becouse my sleep is not restful enought and in the day I fell tired.
    I bought the band especially for the sleep monitor ;)
    gadgetrants likes this.
    03-06-2015 01:05 AM
  6. gadgetrants's Avatar
    OK, my turn to show-and-tell!!

    bandsleep.jpg

    Two thoughts: first, I think your data are pretty typical (except for 2 hours "restful"). From what I've seen here, about 1 hour of restful sleep is the norm. Second, also based on conversation here, I would not trust the Band to help identify a sleep problem. My impression is that it could mask a sleep disorder by showing relatively normal sleep data (i.e., false negative), or it could suggest a problem when there isn't any (false positive). Nobody knows what the relative percents of those "errors" are, so the only safe solution is to talk to a doctor and consider doing an overnight sleep study (e.g., to look for apnea, REM sleep disorder, etc.). Of course if your sleep is in the normal range than it couldn't hurt to track your data with the Band over a few weeks and look for any meaningful trends.

    Forgive me for teasing but...since the Band is a health-oriented device, if you're working out with it (e.g., regular walks or runs) I think that could significantly help increase your energy and well-being. And the other usual things, like cut back on caffeine, pay attention to things that cause stress (loud animals, loud children, loud bosses, etc.), get to bed early! You know the routine!

    ​-Matt
    OberstDanjeje likes this.
    03-06-2015 07:42 AM
  7. MikeInOhio's Avatar
    march.png

    Here is the "Before" week. Going to actually start to exercise so we'll see how that affects my sleep.
    gadgetrants likes this.
    03-06-2015 01:20 PM
  8. DroidUser42's Avatar
    First off, we really don't know what criteria the Band is using to determine levels of sleep. My best guess is it's based on motion (or lack thereof.) Yes, it does check your heart rate, but only for 2 minutes out of every 10. So I'm sure there's a number of things affecting sleep that could slip past the Band. I think the Band's sleep function is primarily for normal people to get an idea of their sleep pattern and then correlate the results with what's happening (weather, diet, etc.) It's not going to be too useful as a sleep disorder diagnostic.

    I wouldn't mind getting a pulse oximeter to see how my sleep is doing, but the kind that can run overnight still seems to be pricey. The one that interfaces with HealthVault is crazy expensive. $700+ Sure would be nice to find a place that would rent one for a week.
    03-06-2015 01:57 PM
  9. OberstDanjeje's Avatar
    Look at this, my worst one

    sleep-3.jpg

    Anyway thanks, looks like yours are very similar to mine
    gadgetrants likes this.
    03-07-2015 02:15 AM
  10. gadgetrants's Avatar
    Yeah, I have several of those, too! There are nights where the Band's data look just like what I thought happened, and then there are nights where I'm like, "What????"

    ​-Matt
    03-07-2015 07:18 AM
  11. MikeInOhio's Avatar
    next.png

    Started to exercise - not too crazy though...
    gadgetrants likes this.
    03-27-2015 12:10 PM
  12. gadgetrants's Avatar
    Mike, you already had a "resting" HR of 46...I'm no spring chicken but that looks pretty good to me. Not sure you'll see any significant changes in your sleep data with more exercise -- I think where you started was a pretty good place! On the other hand, of course I know nothing about what your diet, waistline, and bloop pressure look like!

    -Matt
    03-27-2015 12:40 PM
  13. lpc30000's Avatar
    got the band for a week nowuntitled.jpg
    03-27-2015 01:44 PM
  14. gadgetrants's Avatar
    All you guys with mid-40's resting HRs need to STRESS more! Or maybe you're just a bunch of 23-year-olds with no spouse, children, or pets! The rest of us have a lot to worry about!

    -Matt
    Derausgewanderte likes this.
    03-27-2015 02:06 PM
  15. MikeInOhio's Avatar
    @gadgetrants lol: I only post things that look good. For sleep, the main thing I want to improve is restful sleep... maybe??? I suppose REM sleep isn't necessarily "restful", eh? And I like dreaming...
    03-27-2015 02:17 PM
  16. gadgetrants's Avatar
    I'm figuring that REM is the deepest sleep, but presumably the Band can't distinguish between REM and probably lighter levels of sleep that aren't formally as "restful"...so they get lumped together. Anyway, I'm under the impression that most of us normal folk are getting around 1 hour a night. When I started I figured that number should be like...5 or 6 but the culture here has convinced my otherwise! So it's probably brainwashing but I'm happy with ~1 hour of restful.

    -Matt
    03-27-2015 03:02 PM
  17. rsp57's Avatar
    My best night. Like a baby!

    screenshot-8-.png
    03-27-2015 11:59 PM
  18. lum1a920's Avatar
    What.... Did you have some sleeping pills sir?
    03-28-2015 03:26 AM
  19. gadgetrants's Avatar
    I'm figuring that REM is the deepest sleep, but presumably the Band can't distinguish between REM and probably lighter levels of sleep that aren't formally as "restful"...so they get lumped together.
    As usual, I have no idea what I'm talking about. This helped straighten me out a bit:

    How Much Sleep Do You Need? Sleep Cycles and Stages, Lack of Sleep, and How to Get the Hours You Need

    sleepcycle.jpg
    Did a screen cap to include the sleep diagram. :) By the way, in the diagram sleep goes from light (N1) to deep (N3). An ignorant guess is that "restful" for the Band may span parts of N3 and N2 -- just read that HR increases during REM (probably more so for those of us with more "colorful" dreams LOL), so perhaps that goes under "light" sleep.

    ​-Matt
    03-28-2015 09:43 AM
  20. Black3ternity's Avatar
    Hey Matt,

    I'm pretty interested in the band and I preordered mine from the UK so I can tinker around with it in April.
    Specifically the sleeptracking is interesting so I'm absorbing all the info I can get right now.

    You say that the Band may see the REM sleep as "light sleep" - but it's correct then from what my understanding is.
    Your link is pretty interesting and somewhat difficult to absorb (non english native speaker here :-D) but even the graph shows the REM sleep on top of N1 - N3. So from my understanding the Band tracks the HR and motion of you (and maybe the "stress level" of the GSR?) to get an overview of how your body behaves. Because it can not properly diagnose everything like the sleep labs can, it has to interpret that data.

    I read your screenshot and compared that to all the pictures in this thread.
    Four to six cycles should occur during one night.
    Therefore, your screenshot shows 7 segments between awake and sleeping / deep sleeping.
    According to the website that you linked, the N3 sleep is the most restful and your heart rate is at the lowest point and your brain is as relaxed as it can get (slow brain wave activity).
    So in theory, the Band should be able to check your HR every 8 minutes (2 of 10 minutes active) and get a pretty accurate result for REM, N1, N2 or N3 sleep based on what your average HR is.
    I am by far no expert in sleep (I myself have trouble to get a proper rest and often feel tired or not fully "here") so it's pretty interesting to get a good insight of what is going on when I'm sleeping.

    I'm just trying to make a picture of it. I know that stuff like caloric burn, HR and sleep tracking are not used for medical purposes (not from the Band right now) because the data may not be accurate to the spot, but it's good to get an overview and especially to get a trend.
    I've started to exercise this year and I'm using my iPod Nano as a tracking device with Nike+ in order to know my trend on the crosstrainer. It doesn't matter to me if the caloric burn shows 500 and in reality I only burned 280 or 300 - the trend is important to me.

    So I'm trying to get a hold of what the band shows with sleep track because I want to understand it when it arrives at my home.

    It's great that you guys compare all that data, but what is interesting for me:
    When the band shows you as "awake" - do you remember to be awake, or is it just "light sleep"?
    I'm asking because OberstDanjeje shows nearly a full hour of "awake", so where does it come from?
    I have two cats and one of them usually wakes me up during the night when she jumps down from the closet or something like that. That should definately give a pretty big spike in the band overview, right?
    I'm gonna compare that sleeping data with the times where I remember being physically awake just to understand my lack of restfulness a little bit better.

    (Sorry long text - just some thoughts and trying to understand what the Band is providing and what you are showing because there is little knowledge of the band and how it completely works)

    Regards,
    03-28-2015 03:37 PM
  21. pdawg17's Avatar
    Sorry to be dense but how do you capture a screenshot of each graph? When I try it only seems to give me the option to save the entire page as an HTML file...

    I want to show off my sleep cycle :)
    03-28-2015 05:08 PM
  22. Derausgewanderte's Avatar
    here is my last week. had it off for a day since I got my replacement band (corrosion on metal parts). Also, not healthy to go to bed at 4am. Of course the latest night screws up all the average wake up and bedtime values.
    sleep.png
    03-28-2015 05:32 PM
  23. Nate Silver's Avatar
    One of my best, from last night. Sadly not at all typical, I generally average 3 1/2 to 4 hours per night when working, then try to grab an hour or two nap during the afternoon. Can't remember the last time I got 8 hours.

    screenshot_2015-03-28-19-07-57.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails screenshot_2015-03-28-18-02-32.jpg  
    03-28-2015 06:13 PM
  24. gadgetrants's Avatar
    Sorry to be dense but how do you capture a screenshot of each graph? When I try it only seems to give me the option to save the entire page as an HTML file...

    I want to show off my sleep cycle :)
    If you're on a PC, you have a few options...my personal favorite is that I press the Function key + PrintScreen (that's how it works on my laptop) -- it's often Control+PrintScreen on typical keyboards. You then have a beautiful capture of the entire display, which you can paste into your favorite image editor (I use Irfanview) and cut/resize as you like! Windows also has some built-in tools but I do it the old-fashioned way. Wouldn't have a clue how to do it on a Mac.

    @Black3eternity: I agreed with EVERY word of your post. I think you're starting off with exactly the right expectations about sleep (and health) tracking. You won't be disappointed with the Band. One minor caution though: as you realize, all of our reverse engineering is speculation. Nobody knows, for example, whether the GSR sensor is yet implemented, and if so, how it contributes. I'd read in a few places it's ONLY used to determine whether you have the Band on just before it tries to read HR. I'm sure that's a guess too. There is some hope that it might become a "stress" sensor but I think that's very optimistic thinking.

    It's the end of March and we have yet to see the "actionable insights for healthier living" that MS advertised last November -- the limiting factor is not the amount of data in their servers, or the brainpower of MS engineers. I'm guessing, like most tech companies, they are stretched down to the last employee and constantly reassessing how much money/time they want to spend developing the Band vs. other devices with revenue streams. I've seen this happen over and over and over again with laptop and cell phone companies. A year after product launch, if the company has delivered 60-70% of what they promised in the initial ads, that's really good.

    On the other hand, the latest major update added lots of great features, including integration with the MS HealthVault and a new web Dashboard. On the whole I think patient, loyal Band owners have been well-rewarded. Maybe the next 6 months will bring some more new features!

    -Matt

    PS Regarding "time awake": my sense is that, for me, the Band says "Awake" when it's really more "tossing and turning." I'm not aware of being awake most nights (say, between midnight and 4am) but I must be moving around quite a bit.
    03-28-2015 06:29 PM
  25. NBrookus's Avatar
    IME, these kinds of sleep trackers can also say you are asleep when you are just holding still trying to sleep.

    I thought my 2.5 hours of "restful sleep" was bad, but it looks like I'm about average.
    03-28-2015 08:16 PM
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