1. MountainBikeMike's Avatar
    I use the Band while Mountain Biking. (Lumia 930 phone). My regular ride includes 2,500 feet of vertical gain. After my first ride with the Band it showed 6,300 vertical on the summary page of the app (under "Total Gain"), but the splits page displayed the vertical gain correctly (2,500 feet). I also noticed that my Band displayed a heart rate of over 180 while riding, but the app displayed a max heart rate of much less on the summary page. Finally, a four hour, 28 mile ride displayed an average speed of .5mph on the app summary page !

    I reviewed the findings with a tech at the Microsoft store who felt the Band was clearly defected and replaced it. Nice.

    Three rides later the "Total Gain" on the app still displays 2-3 times the actual "Total Gain" ridden, and is still contradicted by the Split display on the app.

    I spent 47 minutes this morning and 62 minutes yesterday on the phone with Microsoft Band Support. After a reinstall of the app, and re-set of my new Band.......same result.

    They are at a loss to explain, and cannot provide any indication of when it will be addressed, let alone fixed (Due in large part to the trouble shooting system in place at MicroSoft. The tech support agent really tried her best).

    In the end they provided one of two solutions - wait until MicroSoft Band support decides to address this and we'll get back to you, or return the Band for a refund.

    Sounds like a bit of a rant, because, yes, I am disappointed. This device could be useful and cool in so many ways. Anyone out there tracking their vertical with the Bike Tile and finding the same inaccurate results in the MicroSoft Health app? Any suggested fixes? MP
    04-02-2015 02:54 PM
  2. eusty's Avatar
    Vertical gain is always hard to measure accurately as both methods of measuring, pressure and GPS, are inaccurate.

    The other issues sound software related...unless you ride very slowly!
    04-02-2015 03:25 PM
  3. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    I use the Band while Mountain Biking. (Lumia 930 phone). My regular ride includes 2,500 feet of vertical gain. After my first ride with the Band it showed 6,300 vertical on the summary page of the app (under "Total Gain"), but the splits page displayed the vertical gain correctly (2,500 feet). I also noticed that my Band displayed a heart rate of over 180 while riding, but the app displayed a max heart rate of much less on the summary page. Finally, a four hour, 28 mile ride displayed an average speed of .5mph on the app summary page !

    I reviewed the findings with a tech at the Microsoft store who felt the Band was clearly defected and replaced it. Nice.

    Three rides later the "Total Gain" on the app still displays 2-3 times the actual "Total Gain" ridden, and is still contradicted by the Split display on the app.

    I spent 47 minutes this morning and 62 minutes yesterday on the phone with Microsoft Band Support. After a reinstall of the app, and re-set of my new Band.......same result.

    They are at a loss to explain, and cannot provide any indication of when it will be addressed, let alone fixed (Due in large part to the trouble shooting system in place at MicroSoft. The tech support agent really tried her best).

    In the end they provided one of two solutions - wait until MicroSoft Band support decides to address this and we'll get back to you, or return the Band for a refund.

    Sounds like a bit of a rant, because, yes, I am disappointed. This device could be useful and cool in so many ways. Anyone out there tracking their vertical with the Bike Tile and finding the same inaccurate results in the MicroSoft Health app? Any suggested fixes? MP
    Avid cyclist myself, 12 - 14 hours a week. I capture tons of data for review.

    I'm not familiar with that app or device you're asking about, but I have extensive experience with GPS use. My primary device is a Garmin 800, but I have on occasion used a smartphone. Elevation is definitely a finicky stat to capture accurately, but how its recorded is key. First off, if its GPS based alone, elevation data cannot be relied upon at all. Altimeters are best, but only if calibrated regularly, and they are still impacted by changing weather conditions over the course of a ride. GIS data is used post activity upload for many apps, but relies heavily on the location data being very accurate (a major hurdle when mountain biking).

    Just for example, a road that on its own gains 1000' in 3 miles. Using GIS data instead of altimeter; if you record a ride up this road, but the GPS signal is blocked partially by foliage or the mountain, and the waypoints (because GPS is just connect the dots that update every 1 to 5 seconds, those dots are waypoints) are recorded as though you're 10 - 50 feet going either side of that road (as opposed to the straight path you took), and one side is mountain, while the other is cliff. Total elevation for your 1000' climb will show up maybe as 2500' (which I've seen many times when cell phones have only GPS signals for location) The waypoint accuracy is faulted, and therefore the total accumulated elevation is skewed.

    Can you tell me more about your device/app, and maybe I can help you pin down where the faults are?
    04-02-2015 03:29 PM
  4. MountainBikeMike's Avatar
    The wearable is a MicroSoft Band, with built in GPS. An app, Microsoft Health, collects the data from the Band when you sync your phone (Lumia 930) with the Band.

    The GPS on the Band records the vertical gain extremely well. The problem is the Microsoft Health app, which reports the vertical gain from the Band in one place accurately (Splits) and very inaccurately in another (Summary). MP
    04-02-2015 04:21 PM
  5. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    The wearable is a MicroSoft Band, with built in GPS. An app, Microsoft Health, collects the data from the Band when you sync your phone (Lumia 930) with the Band.

    The GPS on the Band records the vertical gain extremely well. The problem is the Microsoft Health app, which reports the vertical gain from the Band in one place accurately (Splits) and very inaccurately in another (Summary). MP
    If it is using GPS to record vertical gain, I can assure you, its not accurate (it has to do with the angles of you to the satellites, altitude error can be expected at 1.5 to 3 times horizontal error). I don't see where the wearable has an altimeter, so it's only alternative is to use GPS. Once the data is uploaded, and you're able to view on a map, there should be some override in place, to override GPS elevation with GIS derived elevation. Do you have an "elevation correction" option anywhere in the app? This would for any elevation data to be GIS based, and if your location data is accurate, then the elevation data will also be accurate.

    You say it records the vertical gain "extremely well". How are you able to quantify "extremely well"? I'd be curious to know, if when you zoom in as close as you can on a map of your activity, how accurately your true route was traced.
    04-02-2015 05:07 PM
  6. MountainBikeMike's Avatar
    We have topos and other GPS/Altimeter recording history for this route. We bike it often and know it extremely well. When we first used the Band on this route last week as a test, vertical gain was transferred to the Microsoft Health app where we reviewed the results. One of the MSH app reports is spot on with vertical gain, but the summary page of the MSH app reports a vertical gain three times actual. In my opinion, it is a problem with the MSH app. I posted here to see if anyone had experienced this. As an early adapter of the device and app, I expected problems. It'd be nice to know if others using the MS Band and Health app were experiencing the same issues. Thanks for your reply though. MP
    04-03-2015 02:28 PM
  7. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    We have topos and other GPS/Altimeter recording history for this route. We bike it often and know it extremely well. When we first used the Band on this route last week as a test, vertical gain was transferred to the Microsoft Health app where we reviewed the results. One of the MSH app reports is spot on with vertical gain, but the summary page of the MSH app reports a vertical gain three times actual. In my opinion, it is a problem with the MSH app. I posted here to see if anyone had experienced this. As an early adapter of the device and app, I expected problems. It'd be nice to know if others using the MS Band and Health app were experiencing the same issues. Thanks for your reply though. MP
    So to me it sounds like one screen may be displaying GIS corrected elevation, and the other is displaying the GPS elevation. Apps like Strava, due to the inaccuracies of GPS captured elevation, will auto override GPS with corrected GIS elevation data, if the recording device doesn't have an altimeter (which it appears the Microsoft Band does not). Maybe the difference in the two screens is GPS vs GIS, and is a simple fix with some coding. Just a though, but something you could ask the tech support staff you were talking with. Three times actual is within the error of vertical GPS positioning.
    04-03-2015 03:26 PM
  8. astondg's Avatar
    Three rides later the "Total Gain" on the app still displays 2-3 times the actual "Total Gain" ridden, and is still contradicted by the Split display on the app.
    How are you comparing the splits page to the total gain? Just adding up any positive elevation for the splits? I ask so I can make sure I'm comparing the same things as you. I've been looking at my rides and the splits seem to show a total elevation change over the km, i.e. total gain minus total loss, where as the summary page has total gain & total loss listed separately.

    On my most recent ride I have a total gain of 127m and adding up the positive gain splits shows 40m. But I can see by the graph that in my first km I started with a 10m gain or so but then lost 21m so my overall for the 1km split is -11m (but total gain so far would be 10m).

    Is that the kind of difference you are seeing?
    04-03-2015 04:08 PM
  9. MountainBikeMike's Avatar
    Yes. You are absolutely correct. I've not factored the 'net' per km as you have on the splits. That explains why the split Total Gain I've calculated is different from the Total Gain listed on the summary page. Thanks. I'll go back and see if they add up. Unfortunately it still doesn't explain a 6,200 foot Total Gain reading on a 1,900 foot hill climb, even with a few minor drops and re-climbs on the way up.
    04-03-2015 07:30 PM
  10. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    I think it would be helpful if you posted screen shots of the two screens you are referencing, because I'm not sure which screen shows what you describe. On the splits page I see an elevation for each mile, but not an overall.
    04-03-2015 09:41 PM
  11. MTG7's Avatar
    I have exactly the same problem. Total gain in and total loss are incorrect (about double the real gain or loss). There is no problem with GPS elevation because elevation chart and elevation gain in splits are OK (if you are only going up or only down during same split).

    I think there is SW problem but I could not find any other posts about that. I really wish to know approximate total gain.
    06-08-2015 07:13 AM

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