01-11-2016 10:26 PM
106 12345
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  1. bockersjv's Avatar
    Anthony, I was not cycling indoors, it's just that I go indoors after my ride which confuses the GPS. By GPS drift I mean the fact that standing still and the GPS shows you moving sometimes as it changes locks on satellites. I am going to turn of the GPS at the end of my next ride and leave the band on for 10 mins to see if I get the 1 and 2 min hr show.
    05-16-2015 01:59 AM
  2. Ian Too's Avatar
    Surprises me, though I do cycle 9Km each way to work. :)vo2max.jpg
    05-16-2015 05:13 AM
  3. bockersjv's Avatar
    Ok. I now know that unless I get an ending HR plus a 1min and 2min reading, I will not get a VO2 max.
    So for a GPS cycle how do I ensure this happens?
    05-16-2015 12:19 PM
  4. Penecho's Avatar
    Uhh you guys are all elite... I', almost ashamed to upload mine^^
    fitness_level.jpg

    I started running again 2 weeks ago (thanks MS Band for motivating me) after 3 years of hiatus, ran 2x so far (plus tried some guided workouts in March, so I guess that's why my fitness level already shows up)

    That's how a typical run looks like (that's in kilometers + pace is mins/km, NOT mile):
    run_data.jpg

    I thought I be at least 1 above moderate, in the middle :(
    Last edited by Penecho; 05-17-2015 at 07:02 AM. Reason: typo
    05-17-2015 07:00 AM
  5. danckel's Avatar
    Surprises me, though I do cycle 9Km each way to work. :)
    For me it is almost the same: I bike only to work and back and this also seems to make me "elite".

    It made me wonder: I was using my band with biking before there was a bike tile and recorded them as "runs". Could this old data mess up the fitness level measurement?
    05-17-2015 08:53 AM
  6. bockersjv's Avatar
    I use my band for cycling and cannot find a way to get the 2min ending heart rate to show. Therefore it won't calculate my vo2 max.

    Any ideas? I have tried sitting still after ride for 3 mins before and after I end the ride but I only ever get the 1 minute reading:(
    05-17-2015 10:13 AM
  7. poit57's Avatar
    My level is 42.8 (very high)

    I ran a half marathon the weekend before the VO2 max feature was added to the dashboard. The Band had to be sent in for warranty after the race, but apparently none of my previous runs could be used to calculate my VO2 max.

    Finally this weekend I was able to complete my 5th workout since this feature was enabled. Four of my workouts were runs between 1 to 2.5 miles. The other workout was a biking workout for less than 3 minutes on a stationary bike. I just wanted to get some sort of workout recorded under biking even though I don't own a bike or do any actual biking. I wonder if that short session with no GPS data for biking had any effect on the accuracy of my VO2 max score. I've been taking it easy on my run training to let my legs heal after the half marathon, but I plan to start running more often this summer and I'll keep an eye on my VO2 max to see if it improves.
    05-18-2015 01:09 PM
  8. poit57's Avatar
    I use my band for cycling and cannot find a way to get the 2min ending heart rate to show. Therefore it won't calculate my vo2 max.

    Any ideas? I have tried sitting still after ride for 3 mins before and after I end the ride but I only ever get the 1 minute reading:(
    Since I started using the Band, I only get the 2 minute post-workout heart rate recorded about half the time, even when trying to open to the heart rate screen to verify that I have a lock for over 2 minutes after a workout. I just checked my 5 workouts that triggered the fitness level score, and 4 of the 5 actually do have the 2 minute heart rate. Using the regular exercise tracking, I've only got the 2 minute heart rate recorded on 1 of 2 workouts in that same time period.
    05-18-2015 01:21 PM
  9. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    Can someone elaborate on the 1 min and 2 min heartrate for bike rides? What is it and how do I get it? I have the 1 min for a few of my rides, but don't have the 2 min. on any as far as I can tell.
    05-18-2015 04:06 PM
  10. bockersjv's Avatar
    Can someone elaborate on the 1 min and 2 min heartrate for bike rides? What is it and how do I get it? I have the 1 min for a few of my rides, but don't have the 2 min. on any as far as I can tell.
    David, that is my question too. Of the numerous bike rides I have done I only have the two minute rate on 2 rides. I cannot find a way to ensure it gets recorded.
    05-19-2015 07:54 AM
  11. Spartacusds's Avatar
    I workout 6 days a week and still no reading for VO2 Max nor a fitness level. Has anyone been able to verify that we have to do a run or a bike ride for this feature to work? I lift and do Crossfit so I only use the workout button. My HR goes up into the 180's during a crossfit workout so I know it's rather intense, yet still no reading. I have never gotten a 1 or 2 min cool down notification.
    bockersjv likes this.
    05-20-2015 09:24 AM
  12. poit57's Avatar
    Has anyone been able to verify that we have to do a run or a bike ride for this feature to work?
    The section on the dashboard specifically says to complete 5 run or bike exercises to get your fitness level.
    Spartacusds likes this.
    05-20-2015 02:00 PM
  13. gadgetrants's Avatar
    The section on the dashboard specifically says to complete 5 run or bike exercises to get your fitness level.
    "To get an estimate of your fitness level, a few new run or bike workouts with elevated heart rate are required (a minimum of five new workouts are required for the initial estimate)."
    I read David's quote as either Run, Bike, or Exercise mode. But that's a generous interpretation. If it's only Run/Bike (at least to get an initial V02 value) the only thing I can figure is that the system requires GPS data (distance moved, not absolute location) as some kind of calibration.

    It's worth noting...here are some quick-and-dirty V02 calculators, and 2 of the 4 don't require moving a specific distance (the first one is especially good for couch-potatoes -- you don't even have to stand up!):

    VO2max Calculator <-- follow link for calculators + instructions for each version!

    Equations

    The equations used by these VO2max calculators are shown below.​


    • Resting Heart Rate Based

      VO2max = 15.3 x (MHR/RHR)

      where

      MHR = Maximum heart rate (beats/minute) = 208 - (0.7 x Age)
      RHR = Resting heart rate (beats/minute) = 20 second heart rate x 3



    • 1 Mile Walk Test

      VO2max = 132.853 - 0.0769W - 0.3877A + 6.315G - 3.2649T - 0.1565H

      where

      W = Weight (in pounds)
      A = Age (in years)
      G = Gender factor (G = 0 for a female, G = 1 for a male)
      T = Test completion time (in minutes)
      H = Heart rate at test completion (beats/minute)



    • 3 Minute Step Test

      Males: VO2max = 111.33 - 0.42H
      Females: VO2max = 65.81 - 0.1847H

      where

      H = Heart rate (in beats/minute) after test completion



    • 1.5 Mile Run-Walk Test

      ​VO2max = 483/T + 3.5

      where

      T = Test completion time (in minutes)
    -Matt
    Last edited by gadgetrants; 05-22-2015 at 03:58 PM.
    05-20-2015 02:30 PM
  14. poit57's Avatar
    My theory on why the Band requires Run or Bike workouts is that the VO2 max is somewhat dependent on an elevated heart rate, at least based on the formulas you posted. I think Microsoft is presuming that the user will actually be running or biking when using those tiles, which would be a reliable way to get a high heart rate going, as opposed to the variety of workouts one can perform while using the general "exercise" tile.

    I would think the elevated heartrate from doing multiple sets of weight lifting wouldn't be as good of an indicator as a good cardio workout, both of which would likely be monitored by by the "exercise" tile.

    I think Microsoft is just counting on the law of averages that running and biking are going to get a better indication of VO2 max based on heart rate than the exercise tile will overall.
    05-20-2015 03:28 PM
  15. gadgetrants's Avatar
    tl;dr It seems that just plugging in your theoretical max HR and known resting HR into the Resting Heart Rate formula may be a pretty decent way of estimating V02max. If you're lazy like me and want to play with some no-fuss calculators for HRmax and V02max, here is a great website.

    As a footnote to my earlier post:

    On a whim I tried the "Resting Heart Rate" formula I posted earlier. It gave me a V02max value of 41, which is well within spitting distance of what the Dashboard is reporting, 43.4. Certainly given the range of possible values for men (like 20 to 55), that's not a huge error for using such a simple formula.

    Where it gets interesting is that I just took a peek at the article linked to in post #8:

    Estimation of V?O2max from the ratio between HRmax and HRrest ? the Heart Rate Ratio Method - Springer

    Here is the abstract:

    The effects of ṫ̇raining and/or ageing upon maximal oxygen uptake (O2max) and heart rate values at rest (HRrest) and maximal exercise (HRmax), respectively, suggest a relationship betweenO2maxand the HRmax-to-HRrest ratio which may be of use for indirect testing ofO2max. Fick principle calculations supplemented by literature data on maximum-to-rest ratios for stroke volume and the arterio-venous O2 difference suggest that the conversion factor between mass-specificO2max(mlmin−1kg−1) and HRmaxHRrest−1 is ~15. In the study we experimentally examined this relationship and evaluated its potential for prediction ofO2max.O2max was measured in 46 well-trained men (age 2151 years) during a treadmill protocol. A subgroup (n=10) demonstrated that the proportionality factor between HRmaxHRrest−1 and mass-specificO2max was 15.3 (0.7) mlmin−1kg−1. Using this value,O2max in the remaining 36 individuals could be estimated with an SEE of 0.21 lmin−1 or 2.7 mlmin−1kg−1 (~4.5%). This compares favourably with other common indirect tests. When replacing measured HRmax with an age-predicted one, SEE was 0.37 lmin−1 and 4.7 mlmin−1kg−1 (~7.8%), which is still comparable with other indirect tests. We conclude that the HRmax-to-HRrest ratio may provide a tool for estimation ofO2max in well-trained men. The applicability of the test principle in relation to other groups will have to await direct validation.O2max can be estimated indirectly from the measured HRmax-to-HRrest ratio with an accuracy that compares favourably with that of other common indirect tests. The results also suggest that the test may be of use forO2max estimation based on resting measurements alone.
    What I gleaned from it is:

    - Fick's principle suggests that the ratio of maximum to resting HR will estimate V02 max
    - a key constant in the formula (i.e., conversion factor) is estimated at 15.3
    - age-based methods can be used to estimate maximum HR, while resting HR is typically known

    Turns out the formula I posted earlier uses the same 15.3 constant. Looks like a reasonable way to estimate if what the Dashboard is reporting for V02max is accurate is to use the Resting Heart Rate formula:

    VO2max = 15.3 x (MHR/RHR)

    where

    MHR = Maximum heart rate (beats/minute) = 208 - (0.7 x Age)
    RHR = Resting heart rate (beats/minute) = 20 second heart rate x 3
    ​-Matt
    Last edited by gadgetrants; 05-21-2015 at 09:56 AM.
    05-20-2015 06:48 PM
  16. JDH58's Avatar
    I used your Resting Heart Rate formula on the data I downloaded from the band and it was within 1.2 of what the dashboard is showing so that lends support to how Microsoft may be calculating it.

    Thanks for the write up on the formula. Very informative.
    gadgetrants likes this.
    05-21-2015 09:43 PM
  17. bockersjv's Avatar
    I think the key is the for a lot of users they are never getting a 1min or 2min ending heart rate recorded. I find it impossible to get one when using the bike tile. Therefor even with 20 plus bike rides I will never get a VO2max
    05-22-2015 08:13 AM
  18. Brentd6's Avatar
    There is another post about getting 1 min - 2 minute heart rate.
    After stopping run, keep your heart rate locked.
    Tap on main screen, swipe over to heart rate screen. Ensure it is locked.
    Tap on the screen every 30 seconds, to ensure it stays on the screen.

    Hopefully this helps people get the 1-2 min ending heart rate
    bockersjv likes this.
    05-25-2015 06:50 AM
  19. DrFix82's Avatar
    The "ending HR" formula brings to misleading results to me.
    I use to push to the limit at the very end of each workout, so my hearth is pumping like hell in the last minutes, ending HR 1 min and 2 min are of course always high, compared to the average of my session....
    05-25-2015 09:21 AM
  20. bockersjv's Avatar
    There is another post about getting 1 min - 2 minute heart rate.
    After stopping run, keep your heart rate locked.
    Tap on main screen, swipe over to heart rate screen. Ensure it is locked.
    Tap on the screen every 30 seconds, to ensure it stays on the screen.

    Hopefully this helps people get the 1-2 min ending heart rate
    Thanks Brentd6, I tried that today after a 50 mile ride and still did not get a 2 min rate.
    05-25-2015 06:57 PM
  21. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    Maybe it doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Everyone is a winner!

    Everyone is Elite!
    05-25-2015 10:23 PM
  22. Mark Barbieri's Avatar
    06-06-2015 06:10 PM
  23. DrFix82's Avatar
    Nice, even practicing a lot I cannot improve it... What does the upper "info" baloon say?
    06-07-2015 03:02 PM
  24. gadgetrants's Avatar
    Hah, I've almost caught Mark B.! LOL Just a few more 10Ks and I'll be up to 50% whatever-they-are.

    vo2maxupdated.jpg

    It's interesting that I'm "elite" at 44.6% and the OP is very high at 53.4%. Clearly I get bonus points for being an old guy -- well, 48 is not old per se, but no way I could run against my 20-year-old younger self! I'm a lot smarter but he's a lot faster.

    -Matt
    Alex Temple likes this.
    06-15-2015 03:25 PM
  25. gadgetrants's Avatar
    Nice, even practicing a lot I cannot improve it... What does the upper "info" baloon say?
    Sadly, upper balloon just repeats the V02 max spiel:

    VO2 max refers to the maximum volume of oxygen one can utilize during exercise. It is the primary indicator of one's cardiovascular fitness. Increasing training intensity and volume are the two key ways to improve VO2 max.
    Strangely, the lower one says the same thing!

    VO2 max refers to the maximum volume of oxygen one can utilize during exercise. It is the primary indicator of cardiovascular fitness. Increasing training intensity and volume are the two key ways to improve VO2 max.
    NOTE: I agree now that the key to updating your VO2 is getting the 1- and 2-minute HRs to register. I've been practicing the "go to home tile, then get HR to lock" strategy, which seems to help.

    -Matt
    06-15-2015 03:29 PM
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