What is your current fitness level?

[Spartacusds]

I workout 6 days a week and still no reading for VO2 Max nor a fitness level. Has anyone been able to verify that we have to do a run or a bike ride for this feature to work? I lift and do Crossfit so I only use the workout button. My HR goes up into the 180's during a crossfit workout so I know it's rather intense, yet still no reading. I have never gotten a 1 or 2 min cool down notification.

 

[poit57]

Has anyone been able to verify that we have to do a run or a bike ride for this feature to work?

The section on the dashboard specifically says to complete 5 run or bike exercises to get your fitness level.

 

[gadgetrants]

The section on the dashboard specifically says to complete 5 run or bike exercises to get your fitness level.

"To get an estimate of your fitness level, a few new run or bike workouts with elevated heart rate are required (a minimum of five new workouts are required for the initial estimate)."

I read David's quote as either Run, Bike, or Exercise mode. But that's a generous interpretation. If it's only Run/Bike (at least to get an initial V02 value) the only thing I can figure is that the system requires GPS data (distance moved, not absolute location) as some kind of calibration.

It's worth noting...here are some quick-and-dirty V02 calculators, and 2 of the 4 don't require moving a specific distance (the first one is especially good for couch-potatoes -- you don't even have to stand up!):

VO2max Calculator <-- follow link for calculators + instructions for each version!

Equations

The equations used by these VO2max calculators are shown below.​

• Resting Heart Rate Based
  
  VO2max = 15.3 x (MHR/RHR)
  
  where
  
  MHR = Maximum heart rate (beats/minute) = 208 - (0.7 x Age)
  RHR = Resting heart rate (beats/minute) = 20 second heart rate x 3

• 1 Mile Walk Test
  
  VO2max = 132.853 - 0.0769W - 0.3877A + 6.315G - 3.2649T - 0.1565H
  
  where
  
  W = Weight (in pounds)
  A = Age (in years)
  G = Gender factor (G = 0 for a female, G = 1 for a male)
  T = Test completion time (in minutes)
  H = Heart rate at test completion (beats/minute)

• 3 Minute Step Test
  
  Males: VO2max = 111.33 - 0.42H
  Females: VO2max = 65.81 - 0.1847H
  
  where
  
  H = Heart rate (in beats/minute) after test completion

• 1.5 Mile Run-Walk Test
  
  ​VO2max = 483/T + 3.5
  
  where
  
  T = Test completion time (in minutes)

-Matt

 

[poit57]

My theory on why the Band requires Run or Bike workouts is that the VO2 max is somewhat dependent on an elevated heart rate, at least based on the formulas you posted. I think Microsoft is presuming that the user will actually be running or biking when using those tiles, which would be a reliable way to get a high heart rate going, as opposed to the variety of workouts one can perform while using the general "exercise" tile.

I would think the elevated heartrate from doing multiple sets of weight lifting wouldn't be as good of an indicator as a good cardio workout, both of which would likely be monitored by by the "exercise" tile.

I think Microsoft is just counting on the law of averages that running and biking are going to get a better indication of VO2 max based on heart rate than the exercise tile will overall.

 

[gadgetrants]

tl;dr It seems that just plugging in your theoretical max HR and known resting HR into the Resting Heart Rate formula may be a pretty decent way of estimating V02max. If you're lazy like me and want to play with some no-fuss calculators for HRmax and V02max, here is a great website.

As a footnote to my earlier post:

On a whim I tried the "Resting Heart Rate" formula I posted earlier. It gave me a V02max value of 41, which is well within spitting distance of what the Dashboard is reporting, 43.4. Certainly given the range of possible values for men (like 20 to 55), that's not a huge error for using such a simple formula.

Where it gets interesting is that I just took a peek at the article linked to in post #8:

Estimation of V?O2max from the ratio between HRmax and HRrest ? the Heart Rate Ratio Method - Springer

Here is the abstract:

The effects of ṫ̇raining and/or ageing upon maximal oxygen uptake (V̇O2max) and heart rate values at rest (HRrest) and maximal exercise (HRmax), respectively, suggest a relationship between V̇O2maxand the HRmax-to-HRrest ratio which may be of use for indirect testing of V̇O2max. Fick principle calculations supplemented by literature data on maximum-to-rest ratios for stroke volume and the arterio-venous O2 difference suggest that the conversion factor between mass-specific V̇O2max(ml?min−1?kg−1) and HRmax?HRrest−1 is ~15. In the study we experimentally examined this relationship and evaluated its potential for prediction of V̇O2max. V̇O2max was measured in 46 well-trained men (age 21?51 years) during a treadmill protocol. A subgroup (n=10) demonstrated that the proportionality factor between HRmax?HRrest−1 and mass-specific V̇O2max was 15.3 (0.7) ml?min−1?kg−1. Using this value, V̇O2max in the remaining 36 individuals could be estimated with an SEE of 0.21 l?min−1 or 2.7 ml?min−1?kg−1 (~4.5%). This compares favourably with other common indirect tests. When replacing measured HRmax with an age-predicted one, SEE was 0.37 l?min−1 and 4.7 ml?min−1?kg−1 (~7.8%), which is still comparable with other indirect tests. We conclude that the HRmax-to-HRrest ratio may provide a tool for estimation of V̇O2max in well-trained men. The applicability of the test principle in relation to other groups will have to await direct validation.V̇O2max can be estimated indirectly from the measured HRmax-to-HRrest ratio with an accuracy that compares favourably with that of other common indirect tests. The results also suggest that the test may be of use for V̇O2max estimation based on resting measurements alone.

What I gleaned from it is:

- Fick's principle suggests that the ratio of maximum to resting HR will estimate V02 max
- a key constant in the formula (i.e., conversion factor) is estimated at 15.3
- age-based methods can be used to estimate maximum HR, while resting HR is typically known

Turns out the formula I posted earlier uses the same 15.3 constant. Looks like a reasonable way to estimate if what the Dashboard is reporting for V02max is accurate is to use the Resting Heart Rate formula:

VO2max = 15.3 x (MHR/RHR)

where

MHR = Maximum heart rate (beats/minute) = 208 - (0.7 x Age)
RHR = Resting heart rate (beats/minute) = 20 second heart rate x 3

​-Matt

 

[JDH58]

I used your Resting Heart Rate formula on the data I downloaded from the band and it was within 1.2 of what the dashboard is showing so that lends support to how Microsoft may be calculating it.

Thanks for the write up on the formula. Very informative.

 

[bockersjv]

I think the key is the for a lot of users they are never getting a 1min or 2min ending heart rate recorded. I find it impossible to get one when using the bike tile. Therefor even with 20 plus bike rides I will never get a VO2max

 

[Brentd6]

There is another post about getting 1 min - 2 minute heart rate.
After stopping run, keep your heart rate locked.
Tap on main screen, swipe over to heart rate screen. Ensure it is locked.
Tap on the screen every 30 seconds, to ensure it stays on the screen.

Hopefully this helps people get the 1-2 min ending heart rate

 

[DrFix82]

The "ending HR" formula brings to misleading results to me.
I use to push to the limit at the very end of each workout, so my hearth is pumping like hell in the last minutes, ending HR 1 min and 2 min are of course always high, compared to the average of my session....

 

[bockersjv]

There is another post about getting 1 min - 2 minute heart rate.
After stopping run, keep your heart rate locked.
Tap on main screen, swipe over to heart rate screen. Ensure it is locked.
Tap on the screen every 30 seconds, to ensure it stays on the screen.

Hopefully this helps people get the 1-2 min ending heart rate

Thanks Brentd6, I tried that today after a 50 mile ride and still did not get a 2 min rate.

 

[vEEP pEEP]

Maybe it doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Everyone is a winner!

Everyone is Elite!

 

[Mark Barbieri]

 

[DrFix82]

Nice, even practicing a lot I cannot improve it... What does the upper "info" baloon say?

 

[gadgetrants]

Hah, I've almost caught Mark B.! LOL Just a few more 10Ks and I'll be up to 50% whatever-they-are.



It's interesting that I'm "elite" at 44.6% and the OP is very high at 53.4%. Clearly I get bonus points for being an old guy -- well, 48 is not old per se, but no way I could run against my 20-year-old younger self! I'm a lot smarter but he's a lot faster. :amaze:

-Matt

 

[gadgetrants]

Nice, even practicing a lot I cannot improve it... What does the upper "info" baloon say?

Sadly, upper balloon just repeats the V02 max spiel:

VO2 max refers to the maximum volume of oxygen one can utilize during exercise. It is the primary indicator of one's cardiovascular fitness. Increasing training intensity and volume are the two key ways to improve VO2 max.

Strangely, the lower one says the same thing!

VO2 max refers to the maximum volume of oxygen one can utilize during exercise. It is the primary indicator of cardiovascular fitness. Increasing training intensity and volume are the two key ways to improve VO2 max.

NOTE: I agree now that the key to updating your VO2 is getting the 1- and 2-minute HRs to register. I've been practicing the "go to home tile, then get HR to lock" strategy, which seems to help.

-Matt

 

[Nate Silver]

Interestingly, my reported fitness level has been trending down lately, and I couldn't imagine why. I'm doing 17 to 20 miles on the bike every other day, with strength training thrown in on the off days. I went in and looked at my profile, and my birth date had mysteriously changed........to the tune of 20 years younger! It also had me twenty pounds lighter than I actually am. Surely this would have an effect on calorie burn, heart rate zones, and the way the app calculates your fitness level. Anyway, I changed it back to what it should be, we'll see what happens.

 

[gadgetrants]

Interestingly, my reported fitness level has been trending down lately, and I couldn't imagine why. I'm doing 17 to 20 miles on the bike every other day, with strength training thrown in on the off days. I went in and looked at my profile, and my birth date had mysteriously changed........to the tune of 20 years younger! It also had me twenty pounds lighter than I actually am. Surely this would have an effect on calorie burn, heart rate zones, and the way the app calculates your fitness level. Anyway, I changed it back to what it should be, we'll see what happens.

OMG what a shame that there isn't a "FUNNIEST post of the day" button. Nice catch Nate! On second thought: maybe you should "bump" your age up to 93 and your weight up to 285? Couldn't hurt the ole' self-esteem, right?

-Matt

 

[Nate Silver]

LOL, yeah Matt. It'd be nice to be 40 years old and 154 pounds again, but the reality is the big 6-0 is rolling up towards the end of the month! However, just a little before this time last year I was at almost 210, and now I'm down to 175......don't think I'll get down that far though.

 

[TeddyGee]

Thank you! This worked for me in exactly the same situation. Now I'm not so sure that's the number I wanted to see

 

[TeddyGee]

I use my band for cycling and cannot find a way to get the 2min ending heart rate to show. Therefore it won't calculate my vo2 max.

Any ideas? I have tried sitting still after ride for 3 mins before and after I end the ride but I only ever get the 1 minute reading

I see similar inconsistency in HR measurements after the completion of the workout. It seems that the Band loses the pulse more often when you finish the workout, than during bike/run. Several times I was watching it lose the lock on pulse, I tapped the Me tile and scrolled to the far right to see the HR "Acquiring" message. That seemed to help, as it's apparently hunting for the pulse more aggressively in that mode.