1. jwpear's Avatar
    I got my Band 2 on Saturday and started tracking sleep that night. I noticed that it is detecting far less restful sleep than my Band 1 was. With Band 1, I was averaging a little more than 2 hours per night. Band 2 has so far detected 20 mins, 1h 8m, and 1h 14m of restful sleep in the three nights I've tracked sleep with it. I don't feel like my sleep has been that poor, but maybe it has. Maybe Band 1 was overly optimistic with restful sleep.

    Is anyone else seeing any significant differences in restful sleep detection with Band 2 compared to 1?

    A couple of points to consider
    1. I manually enable sleep mode.
    2. I have sleep apnea, so tracking restful sleep is more than a novelty for me.
    Witness likes this.
    11-03-2015 04:44 PM
  2. gtdad's Avatar
    I have tracked 4 nights of sleep with Band 2. So far it has shown 0 Restful Sleep. What is the definition of restful sleep? It says my sleep efficiency is 92%, but no restful sleep.
    11-03-2015 05:05 PM
  3. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    Mine seems less than Band 1 as well, but it is a pretty small sample size at this point.

    Ultimately, what matters is that you know what the device gives as a baseline and then you know if you are performing better or worse than the baseline. For this reason I don't really care if the Band's HR is super accurate, as long as it is consistent. So even if it consistently gives a number than is less than Band 1, you should still know how you got a good night's sleep or not, once you figure out what is "normal" with Band 2.
    Captain_Eric likes this.
    11-03-2015 07:33 PM
  4. Paul Stasik's Avatar
    Mine seems right on target, but I've only had the Band 2 for 4 days. I'm going to bookmark this thread and let you know-- so far I think we all have too small a sample size to be sure.

    I'd love to know exactly how the Band 2 determines "restful" sleep - I assume it's REM (the cycles make sense) but would love to know how it knows.
    Dave47 likes this.
    11-04-2015 05:35 AM
  5. jwpear's Avatar
    My restful sleep has been slowly moving up with each passing night. I was up to 1h 40m last night. Maybe it's learning and adjusting, but I don't remember the Band 1 doing that.

    I agree, 3-4 days is not enough of data to make a proclamation that sleep measurement is off in Band 2. I'll give it some time. If it doesn't seem right after, say, 10-14 days, I might try wearing both Bands to see how they compare.

    @gtdad, the sleep tracking page doesn't define restful sleep, surprisingly:
    Sleep tracking with the Microsoft Band | Track your sleep | The Sleep Tile

    The health dashboard says this on the sleep page:
    Restful sleep is the deeper, restorative phases of sleep. Your body needs this time to replenish its energy stores and to repair itself after a period of energy consumption—all the paces you put it through while you're awake!
    But there is no mention of exactly how restful sleep is measured. I believe this is the period when it detects no movement, so it assumes you are in deep sleep. HR and other measurements may also play a role.
    Captain_Eric likes this.
    11-04-2015 12:44 PM
  6. luxnws's Avatar
    I've noticed that even though I have a number of long restful sleep stretches with 95%+ sleep efficiency, the Health app will only give the sleep session a Moderate rating for Sleep Restoration if the HR doesn't cycle over a certain period and in a certain range.

    The app suggests a number of reasons for this but for me it's probably because of too much caffeine or screen time before bed. So I'll see if reducing coffee during the day will affect Restoration. For screen time before bed, I'm trying a blue light blocker that kicks in during the evening. Now I can see how things would look if I were on Mars. :)
    11-04-2015 07:42 PM
  7. ven07's Avatar
    The restful sleep is most likely calculated by detecting your movements and heart rate
    11-04-2015 08:53 PM
  8. Snapperlicious's Avatar
    I've noticed that even though I have a number of long restful sleep stretches with 95%+ sleep efficiency, the Health app will only give the sleep session a Moderate rating for Sleep Restoration if the HR doesn't cycle over a certain period and in a certain range.
    That's interesting. I've already had a night where I had 0 restful sleep and still got a good rating. That night I woke up 8x, and had a resting heart right of 54. I don't think efficiency plays into the rating, since my first night I had an efficiency of 55% because I woke up in the middle of the night and still got a good rating.
    11-04-2015 10:24 PM
  9. Captain_Eric's Avatar
    Yea. Where both 1 and 2. Report back!

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    11-04-2015 11:33 PM
  10. BlueCube4's Avatar
    Looking at four nights of sleep; I log periods of restful sleep whenever my heart rate is near my lowest point (45 mostly). The restful period begins just before the HR reaches the low point and extends for a period of time as my HR starts to increase. The restful sleep period is also framed by periods of sleep (not awake). What I don't understand, I see additional patterns like I mention above, but do not get credit for them. That leads me to believe that maybe they are also factoring in skin temperature and/or galvanic skin response. Unfortunately those readings are not visible on the sleep pattern chart.
    11-05-2015 09:24 AM
  11. Jon_Rubinstein's Avatar
    Looking at four nights of sleep; I log periods of restful sleep whenever my heart rate is near my lowest point (45 mostly). The restful period begins just before the HR reaches the low point and extends for a period of time as my HR starts to increase. The restful sleep period is also framed by periods of sleep (not awake). What I don't understand, I see additional patterns like I mention above, but do not get credit for them. That leads me to believe that maybe they are also factoring in skin temperature and/or galvanic skin response. Unfortunately those readings are not visible on the sleep pattern chart.
    How do you see your HR through the night? I have only been able to see Resting Heart Rate number, but not a variance through the night? Or even through the day. IS there a way to see your HR variations during the day?
    11-05-2015 10:14 AM
  12. BlueCube4's Avatar
    How do you see your HR through the night? I have only been able to see Resting Heart Rate number, but not a variance through the night? Or even through the day. IS there a way to see your HR variations during the day?
    Click on the Heart icon to the right of the Moon (Both directly under the word Summary).
    11-05-2015 10:27 AM
  13. Jon_Rubinstein's Avatar
    Great. Thank you!!
    11-05-2015 11:33 AM
  14. poit57's Avatar
    Mine seems to be tracking the same. In the 4 days with Band 2, I've had approximately 56 minutes of restful sleep total. In the 4 days prior, the Band 1 tracked a total of approximately 39 minutes of restful sleep. I've never gotten much restful sleep according to the Band, but the new one seems to be consistent with the old one.

    Looking at the comparisons in the dashboard to men in my age and BMI range, I have poor sleep efficiency and get much less total sleep time and restful sleep, yet my sleep is more restorative. I don't really understand how that works.
    Attached Thumbnails comparison.jpg  
    11-05-2015 01:32 PM
  15. luxnws's Avatar
    Nice graphs right? It sort of makes the point in a roundabout way. People will need to be able to understand the data and metrics before what they see in the Health app or on the dashboard becomes something that is "actionable" at least where sleep monitoring using the Band is concerned.
    11-05-2015 04:43 PM
  16. jwpear's Avatar
    I wish MS would write a help doc or blog post explaining the data Band captures and calculations MS Health makes about sleep. It's sort of there in the Health dashboard, but it doesn't go into enough detail. It'd be really great if the Health app would provide more suggestions for improving. The only thing I see is the app telling me my restorative sleep was delayed at the beginning of sleep and I should reduce physical and mental stress before bedtime.

    I'd be good to know what they consider restful sleep to be, what factors influence restful sleep, and how the sleep restoration is calculated.

    I have used the sleep monitoring with Band 1 to improve my sleep and am continuing the same with Band 2. Since getting Band 1, I've tried to get at least 7.5 hours of sleep, getting to bed and waking up at a more consistent time, and reducing caffeine and screen time before bed. Time has been a big help for me. But I'd like to know more so that I can improve the quality of my sleep. Band and Health isn't really helping me with that.
    11-06-2015 09:49 AM
  17. ven07's Avatar
    I wish MS would write a help doc or blog post explaining the data Band captures and calculations MS Health makes about sleep. It's sort of there in the Health dashboard, but it doesn't go into enough detail. It'd be really great if the Health app would provide more suggestions for improving. The only thing I see is the app telling me my restorative sleep was delayed at the beginning of sleep and I should reduce physical and mental stress before bedtime.

    I'd be good to know what they consider restful sleep to be, what factors influence restful sleep, and how the sleep restoration is calculated.

    I have used the sleep monitoring with Band 1 to improve my sleep and am continuing the same with Band 2. Since getting Band 1, I've tried to get at least 7.5 hours of sleep, getting to bed and waking up at a more consistent time, and reducing caffeine and screen time before bed. Time has been a big help for me. But I'd like to know more so that I can improve the quality of my sleep. Band and Health isn't really helping me with that.
    I have noticed that the demand for more in-depth info for sleep data has been huge, but so far MS hasn't (fully) delivered.. so i think you should share this feedback in the feedback app lol

    On the other hand, if you're interested, it wouldn't hurt to just look up info yourself :)
    11-07-2015 03:25 PM
  18. anon(8555314)'s Avatar
    I have noticed that the demand for more in-depth info for sleep data has been huge, but so far MS hasn't (fully) delivered.. so i think you should share this feedback in the feedback app lol

    On the other hand, if you're interested, it wouldn't hurt to just look up info yourself :)
    The problem is that MS health uses dumbed down terminology rather than conventional nomenclature. How can you look it up if they use their own system with no explanation?
    ven07 likes this.
    11-07-2015 04:13 PM
  19. Nate Silver's Avatar
    The problem is that MS health uses dumbed down terminology rather than conventional nomenclature. How can you look it up if they use their own system with no explanation?
    Exactly. What we need is a White Paper (or several) from MS with some in-depth information on the workings of the Band and Health app. Their approach seems to be "don't worry, just use it"...and its great that it does in fact work quite well that way for casual users, but there are those who would like to dig deeper into their health and fitness, and understand just what their numbers mean, and how those numbers are developed. It would seem that putting out some info like this could be seminal to their stated aim of a 'universal' health app. If they're trying to attract other companies to buy in, they need educated users and potential users who understand why the Health app is worthwhile, and that it should be an option for them, even if they don't use the Band. That puts the pressure on companies you would like to partner with.
    Dave47, lizziej and jwpear like this.
    11-07-2015 06:22 PM

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