530 announced! We wanted more!

[a5cent]

the reason i posted was to respond to salmanahmad's comment about the added cores in the 200/400 to impress the community. comments like these without understanding the exact architectural and performance improvements doesn't really prove anything.

Okay, but then why should we accept your comments as being any better? I'd claim they are worse, because they are adding confusion to an already complicated topic.

Your claim is that Basemarks' system benchmark results, comparing the 630 to the 1020, are indicative of real world performance. However, all you need to do is compare the two devices in real life, side by side, to see that just isn't true. You need not believe or even use benchmarks, to see that your basic premise is already wrong.

In a real side-by-side comparison, and even more so after updating the 1020 (or 920) to Cyan, the 630 is consistently slower than the 1020 (or 920). Noticeably and notably.

I think the whole point of this got lost in the fray. Basically, what I've tried to do, is provide a more professional set of benchmarks AND explain how to read them (for now), so the take away is at least somewhat indicative of reality. Without that ability, benchmarks (like Basemark) are worthless. The point was to use a benchmark with proven validity, as a reference for gauging the 530's actual performance. How to do that is where we disagree.

Nevertheless, we both agree that the CPU in the 530 is likely to be more of a sidegrade to the 520 than an upgrade, and I guess that is the important part.

 

[badr0b0t]

If there is a perfect phone that has everything we want, then no one will ever think about upgrading or getting another phone. It's all about profit and choices for people on budget.

Let's stop analyzing and comparing specs. Just pick what is suitable for your needs and budget.

 

[a5cent]

Let's stop analyzing and comparing specs. Just pick what is suitable for your needs and budget.

You're not wrong about that. Just note that I'm not here to make the 530 look bad. I think the device is decent, and once the price comes down (always much higher at launch), I think it could make for a very nice value offering. You get what you pay for, but I still fully expect the user experience on the 530 to be perfectly acceptable.

My main interest was not directly related to the 530, but to provide some technical background to help understand where the quad-core aspect of these more affordable devices fits in, compared to the rest of the Lumia line up, particularly because I wish consumer's strict focus on core count would go away. I know it's an impossible battle to win, but that won't stop me from trying. ;-)

 

[psiu_glen]

Far more annoying are little things I could see:
No ambient light sensor, you will have to adjust brightness on your own
Does not list a proximity sensor, would be great to hang up on someone when you put the phone to your face
The 4GB basically mandates an additional expense of a memory card
512MB runs for crap with WP8.1

...resuming...

Fixed focus camera, great it's like a flip phone or something.

No camera button, but since you won't see the screen since you forgot to.adjust it before going outside, and the camera sucks, and there is no room on your phone, and the scene is gone while the Camera app resumed after you eventually found a tile or the listing between all the games in the app list...

This sounds like a MS release to me!

 

[badr0b0t]

Core count still depends on your needs as to what are you gonna use the phone for.

Personally, I was torn between 1020 and 1520 just because of the camera. But 1020 does not have storage expansion slot. And I have a Nikon D7000 DSLR, So, easy decision... 1520 it is.

 

[Neelim Shyam]

That's all a 50 dollar phone can give

 

[a5cent]

Far more annoying are little things I could see:
No ambient light sensor, you will have to adjust brightness on your own
Does not list a proximity sensor, would be great to hang up on someone when you put the phone to your face
The 4GB basically mandates an additional expense of a memory card
512MB runs for crap with WP8.1

...resuming...

Fixed focus camera, great it's like a flip phone or something.

No camera button, but since you won't see the screen since you forgot to.adjust it before going outside, and the camera sucks, and there is no room on your phone, and the scene is gone while the Camera app resumed after you eventually found a tile or the listing between all the games in the app list...

This sounds like a MS release to me!

Yeah, but for (eventually) $50... what do you expect?

That is like... say... $11 bucks more than this!

Seen from that perspective, it's incredibly powerful and an extremely good deal! :smile:

 

[badr0b0t]

Far more annoying are little things I could see:
No ambient light sensor, you will have to adjust brightness on your own
Does not list a proximity sensor, would be great to hang up on someone when you put the phone to your face
The 4GB basically mandates an additional expense of a memory card
512MB runs for crap with WP8.1

...resuming...

Fixed focus camera, great it's like a flip phone or something.

No camera button, but since you won't see the screen since you forgot to.adjust it before going outside, and the camera sucks, and there is no room on your phone, and the scene is gone while the Camera app resumed after you eventually found a tile or the listing between all the games in the app list...

This sounds like a MS release to me!

If you find the specs lame, then it's definitely not for you. It's probably just for first time phone owners or people who just needs a phone. The rest are just a bonus.

 

[jlzimmerman]

The 520 is $59, no contract.
The 521 is $69, no contract.

How much is the 530?

Regardless, each have expandable storage and microSD's are getting pretty cheap. A 16Gb class 10 microSD card is $11. You cannot find a better mp3 player for the money than these three phones. And for a budget phone, where are you going to find better?

 

[Liam Bryce]

Obviously in an ideal world all phones would cost $100 and have all the bells and whistles. What are you complaining about? That every Lumia doesn't have the same specs? The Lumia 530 is an entry device targeted at the 3rd world! If 1gb of ram isn't good enough then get a 730! Microsoft literally has exactly what you want!!! This is the point of offering multiple phone options. Just pick what works for you. The amount of pointless ******** on the subject is shocking.

 

[pankaj981]

Okay, but then why should we accept your comments as being any better? I'd claim they are worse, because they are adding confusion to an already complicated topic.

I never said that you or anyone per se (I don't know who all do 'we' mean) have to accept my point, I was just giving my opinion against yours which I did not agree to (atleast not completely)

Your claim is that Basemarks' system benchmark results, comparing the 630 to the 1020, are indicative of real world performance. However, all you need to do is compare the two devices in real life, side by side, to see that just isn't true. You need not believe or even use benchmarks, to see that your basic premise is already wrong.

I clearly mentioned the in the Basemark CPU tests, the SD400 won against the S4 Plus, again...only CPU tests

In a real side-by-side comparison, and even more so after updating the 1020 (or 920) to Cyan, the 630 is consistently slower than the 1020 (or 920). Noticeably and notably.

Cyan is not yet released for the 1020 or the 920 so no one knows yet which one is slower, unless you were referring to the 925

Nevertheless, we both agree that the CPU in the 530 is likely to be more of a sidegrade to the 520 than an upgrade, and I guess that is the important part.

Yes, not only CPU but the phone overall is a sidegrade to the 52x

 

[tianangthang7]

somebody who can tell me, the 4 icnh in lumia 530 is including three touch keys or not ?

 

[badr0b0t]

somebody who can tell me, the 4 icnh in lumia 530 is including three touch keys or not ?

It's screen dimension NOT phone dimension.

 

[psiu_glen]

Obviously in an ideal world all phones would cost $100 and have all the bells and whistles. What are you complaining about? That every Lumia doesn't have the same specs? The Lumia 530 is an entry device targeted at the 3rd world! If 1gb of ram isn't good enough then get a 730! Microsoft literally has exactly what you want!!! This is the point of offering multiple phone options. Just pick what works for you. The amount of pointless ******** on the subject is shocking.

Didn't realize the screen turning off during a call, or the screen brightness adjusting, or a camera made past 2008 counted as bells & whistles.

Extras like a FFC or camera flash, compass for nav, gyroscope, that's different. But basic items on any smartphone? Just penny wise, and pound foolish.

Fwiw, EVERY thing I listed the 520 has (except for the memory). Actually, the 525 vs the 530 is a no-brainer.

530 is a step back. Not going to win anyone to the platform when they are they simply frustrated by exceedingly mediocre hardware. They will then see someone with a Moto (whatever letter) and switch to Android. But the apologists will fight the truth no matter how obvious it is, I guess...

 

[Zulfigar]

Didn't realize the screen turning off during a call, or the screen brightness adjusting, or a camera made past 2008 counted as bells & whistles.

Extras like a FFC or camera flash, compass for nav, gyroscope, that's different. But basic items on any smartphone? Just penny wise, and pound foolish.

Fwiw, EVERY thing I listed the 520 has (except for the memory). Actually, the 525 vs the 530 is a no-brainer.

530 is a step back. Not going to win anyone to the platform when they are they simply frustrated by exceedingly mediocre hardware. They will then see someone with a Moto (whatever letter) and switch to Android. But the apologists will fight the truth no matter how obvious it is, I guess...

You wanted MORE for LESS?! What madness is this you speak of?!

In all seriousness, the 530 is priced cheaper than the 520. Why? To still more units. To get more people onto Windows Phone. Is it an upgrade? Not really. Could they have done a 3xx series? Yeah; and that's where my question begins. Why didn't they? Sure, I have heard of companies skipping 4 before, which isn't all that bad for the Chinese (apparently, it sounds like death? Just learned that).

So... Microsoft / Nokia, why did this have to be the 5xx series, and not something lower?

 

[DJCBS]

I think the point the OP is making, is that no WP in 2014 should ship with 512MB RAM, despite it being clear, based on the 630, that it would.

The increase in cost to the manufacturer for going with 1GB instead of 512MB is less than $3.

Per phone. Multiplied by millions of phones that are already produced at a loss. Plus taxes.
These phones are meant to be produced as cheap as possible. If they can run on 512MB, they'll keep coming with 512MB. If people want more, Microsoft wants them to pay more for a different model.

OEMs are a business, not charities.

 

[a5cent]

Per phone. Multiplied by millions of phones that are already produced at a loss. Plus taxes.
These phones are meant to be produced as cheap as possible. If they can run on 512MB, they'll keep coming with 512MB. If people want more, Microsoft wants them to pay more for a different model.

OEMs are a business, not charities.

The obvious statement at the end is unnecessary, but yes, agree. I realize that those $3 can easily represent $30 - $60 million more or less in the bank. I've worked on projects where it was economically worthwhile to spend a few months shaving less than a penny off the bill of materials.

I was trying to help the OP make his point. That is all.

My personal opinion is that the lowest end devices are fine with 512MB, but that the current portfolio includes far too many 512MB models.

 

[DJCBS]

The obvious statement at the end is unnecessary, but yes, agree. I realize that those $3 can easily represent $30 - $60 million more or less in the bank. I've worked on projects where it was economically worthwhile to spend a few months shaving less than a penny off the bill of materials.

I was trying to help the OP make his point. That is all.

My personal opinion is that the lowest end devices are fine with 512MB, but that the current portfolio includes far too many 512MB models.

Sure I get it but I think it's more helpful to try and explain the reasoning behind the choices for the 530 than to just rally behind unrealistic hopes.
Of course, ideally we would all like phones with good specs and a low price like the One+ One. But it's not realistic to hope that all OEMs will do it. Dumping has costs so it's better to try and reduce the losses of it.

The current portfolio includes two 512MB phones, the 530 and the 630. Sure, each of those has 2 or 3 versions. That's a bit confusing, I grant it. But they are still meant to bring prices down so that they try to catch more market.

I'm afraid people who want cheap but decent phones shouldn't look to Microsoft for it. Microsoft has no marketshare to afford it...and I would dare say, no will. Remember, Nadella is in charge now, not Ballmer. And Nadella seems a lot less willing to lose money on things.
So to those people, their only option is looking at Motorola...and for now, as I doubt once Lenovo takes the reigns, things like the Moto E and Moto G will remain that good but cheap. Or look at one of those new OEMs.

 

[jpal12]

After looking at the specs, I realized that the 520 actually is a better device. Here are some advantages and disadvantages of the 530 vs the 520.

Advantages:

Faster CPU (1.4x faster)
128 GB mSD support
Better looking design
Longer lasting battery
Comes with WP8.1

Disadvantages:

Worse GPU
Thicker
Not IPS
Fixed Focus camera
No ambient light sensor

 

[a5cent]

Sure I get it but I think it's more helpful to try and explain the reasoning behind the choices for the 530 than to just rally behind unrealistic hopes.

A discussion requires that everyone agrees on the topic being discussed. Look at the first few replies and you'll see why I was trying to help the OP out.

I'd also include the 720 in that list of 512MB devices, because it has no replacement, so it is at least kind of current. I also question the wisdom of shipping the 630 with only 512MB. In it's price range I consider that neither competitive nor acceptable any more.

I have no opinion on Nadella, so I can't comment on the related points, but our opinions are otherwise pretty similar. Looking at the current line up, what I see is WP entirely lacking a mid range, the low-end having much tougher competition than last year, and a somewhat uninspired high-end. It's not a great time for WP hardware...