10-31-2015 08:30 AM
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  1. neo158's Avatar
    The 20mp pureview is an amazing sensor. Being optimized it will be better than any camera on a phone that is built at that time. I can assure you. apple, LG , samesong, and HTC will all be behind the 950 in image quality.
    I have a feeling that 20MP Pureview Sensor will be the same as the one in the 930 and it really is an amazing sensor as you say.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-27-2015 at 03:42 PM.
    07-27-2015 03:21 PM
  2. tgp's Avatar
    Here's my novice thoughts on optimization vs. specs: I agree that optimization is just as important as specs, if not more important. However, take the same optimized software, and put it in a device with higher specs. In other words, everything is exactly the same except for specs. Won't the higher spec'd device perform better?

    Why do we need to choose one or the other? Why can't we have both? Is it any more difficult to optimize software for a higher spec'd device?
    07-27-2015 03:56 PM
  3. Blacklac's Avatar
    The 808 and 810 are the most recent top tier SoC's, so no, I don't see the anger. The 810 is basically a disaster. I'd love it to have the 820, but do you really want to wait more for them to test it? I'm sure 2nd Gen W10 flagship will have the 820. Well, I can't be sure, but I'd bet on it.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-27-2015 05:03 PM
  4. camstreet1's Avatar
    You may well be right, although no doubt they'll release a 'flagship' with the 820 12 months after everyone else, as per usual...
    07-27-2015 05:32 PM
  5. jsooney's Avatar
    Is there a rumored release date for this thing? This year, next year? My 1520 is on its last legs and I'm wondering whether to try and hang on or get something else to tide me over.
    07-27-2015 06:10 PM
  6. Blacklac's Avatar
    Is there a rumored release date for this thing? This year, next year? My 1520 is on its last legs and I'm wondering whether to try and hang on or get something else to tide me over.
    Fall/Q4

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-27-2015 06:36 PM
  7. Marko Marjanovic's Avatar
    To much fanboing over this and that..who really care about numbers, for god's sake. Did you ever watch terminator, or play halo..or even concider how scary technology come so far. I'm in same time thriled and scared about things like holo lens, cortana and cpus so small that can be implated in ppls hand and make invalids or war veterans walk even see if they never have a gift of sight.
    I've read about head transplatation (yes, it's almost like frankestain) and 3d printers and phone you can talk to them and nlt even touch devi..oh..i just type on one of that devices and with ,,hey cortana" i feel like on edge of future...and phone is 2yrs old.
    And there are people who want 820 not 810 and some of them want 850cpus..and not care about else.
    Did you ever stop for a moment and think how thrining and in same time scaring ,,future" is, how today's high end tmorrow is high, next week low end..how ,,we" constantly evolve?

    What's next, finger scaning and iris scani..
    ...
    ..oh wait?!
    07-27-2015 07:13 PM
  8. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    Wanting the latest processor isn't a bad thing, especially when they are capable of doing more, more efficiently. The 820 will be surplanted by something else, just as that chipset will...it's getting the latest technology to have the best experience.

    Along with the latest processors comes a multitude of new things it will be capable of doing, better wifi better battery management, better cell and GPS....it's not all about speed, just for speeds sake,even though speed is very important to gaming, camera processing and such.

    I too would want the absolute best hardware in the top flagship phones, this is what is supposed to be in it. Getting less than the best is a turn off to me if I am paying premium for something.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    maverick786us likes this.
    07-27-2015 08:58 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Here's my novice thoughts on optimization vs. specs: I agree that optimization is just as important as specs, if not more important. However, take the same optimized software, and put it in a device with higher specs. In other words, everything is exactly the same except for specs. Won't the higher spec'd device perform better?

    Why do we need to choose one or the other? Why can't we have both? Is it any more difficult to optimize software for a higher spec'd device?
    There's an engineering term called "the point of diminishing returns" that could answer your query. Too much of a good thing can sometimes be detrimental.

    Sent from my LG G3 via Tapatalk
    07-27-2015 09:18 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    There's an engineering term called "the point of diminishing returns" that could answer your query. Too much of a good thing can sometimes be detrimental.
    Yes I know. I've been involved in production and manufacturing in the past. I was just trying to look at it objectively!

    I don't think "the point of diminishing returns" applies in this case. It is commonly accepted here that WP doesn't need specs to run smoothly, unlike Android. However, this has never been proven. In fact, a recent benchmark test from Anandtech would suggest otherwise, at least in the low end. (The Lumia 640 and the Moto G in this review have the same Snapdragon 400). Are there any other benchmark reviews like this? If so, I'd like to see how they compare.

    I personally think it's just an excuse from fans as to why WPs don't seem to get the latest hardware. I've never seen any explanation as to why WPs don't get the latest hardware except from fan sites such as this one. Even if WP does run well on lower hardware, it would certainly benefit from better specs.
    maverick786us and MDMcAtee like this.
    07-27-2015 11:10 PM
  11. maverick786us's Avatar
    To much fanboing over this and that..who really care about numbers, for god's sake. Did you ever watch terminator, or play halo..or even concider how scary technology come so far. I'm in same time thriled and scared about things like holo lens, cortana and cpus so small that can be implated in ppls hand and make invalids or war veterans walk even see if they never have a gift of sight.
    I've read about head transplatation (yes, it's almost like frankestain) and 3d printers and phone you can talk to them and nlt even touch devi..oh..i just type on one of that devices and with ,,hey cortana" i feel like on edge of future...and phone is 2yrs old.
    And there are people who want 820 not 810 and some of them want 850cpus..and not care about else.
    Did you ever stop for a moment and think how thrining and in same time scaring ,,future" is, how today's high end tmorrow is high, next week low end..how ,,we" constantly evolve?

    What's next, finger scaning and iris scani..
    ...
    ..oh wait?!
    The reason most of us want 820 over 810 is not because of the minor upgrade, but because of the heating issue, which isn't resolved yet. 810 is a disaster. So the only option that is left is use 820. Come on, we can't use 2 year old SD 800, 801, 805 with the current flagship and optimize it to such an extent that it perform as good as current Android flagships.

    SD810 & 820 are 64-bit, you never know, MS might launch a 64-bit WP10 within an year and we might be able to upgrade these flagship devices with 64-bit WP.
    07-28-2015 12:44 AM
  12. Steve Adams's Avatar
    EVERYBODY. relax. The phone is not even out yet. It may come with the most amazing processor ever. If not, I will rock the new phone and be 100 percent happy with its user experience because its optimized for the hardware and its going to be FREAKIN AWESOME. My 1020 is awesome now with old stuff.
    07-28-2015 05:59 AM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes I know. I've been involved in production and manufacturing in the past. I was just trying to look at it objectively!

    I don't think "the point of diminishing returns" applies in this case. It is commonly accepted here that WP doesn't need specs to run smoothly, unlike Android. However, this has never been proven. In fact, a recent benchmark test from Anandtech would suggest otherwise, at least in the low end. (The Lumia 640 and the Moto G in this review have the same Snapdragon 400). Are there any other benchmark reviews like this? If so, I'd like to see how they compare.

    I personally think it's just an excuse from fans as to why WPs don't seem to get the latest hardware. I've never seen any explanation as to why WPs don't get the latest hardware except from fan sites such as this one. Even if WP does run well on lower hardware, it would certainly benefit from better specs.
    Not quite. Optimization, in any setting, means the right hardware to do the job as efficiently as possible within the design parameters. As evidenced by the recent SD810 issues, bigger and faster isn't necessarily better. Remember Grasshopper, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
    07-28-2015 10:28 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    Not quite. Optimization, in any setting, means the right hardware to do the job as efficiently as possible within the design parameters. As evidenced by the recent SD810 issues, bigger and faster isn't necessarily better. Remember Grasshopper, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
    Yup, I understand. But does that apply in this case? I don't know, and I don't think anybody else here does either. And I doubt whether optimization is the reason for delayed implementation of the latest hardware in WP devices.

    And regarding the SD810, if it is proof that bigger and faster isn't necessarily better, then why is Microsoft reportedly choosing that precise SoC for the upcoming flagship? I know they're likely using a variation of the first model, but have the issues been resolved? If optimization is the reasoning behind Microsoft's choices of SoC, then why do they decide to use one with known issues? I do not know; I'm asking!
    07-28-2015 10:46 AM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    But does that apply in this case? I don't know, and I don't think anybody else here does either. And I doubt whether optimization is the reason for delayed implementation of the latest hardware in WP devices.
    I'm guessing as well. I hope and pray it's not the bean counters telling the engineers to make do with less. That mentality went away with the 80s - I hope. My guess is that the higher-spec'd processors don't provide any meaningful performance increases to justify the cost or may degrade performance through heat losses or decreased battery life. That extra nano second of a page load isn't worth the hassle. In my humble opinion.
    tgp likes this.
    07-28-2015 11:19 AM
  16. Gustavo Sanchez's Avatar
    I really don't understand the "why do you need that much power" argument... The envelope needs to be kept pushed, innovations are needed, and technology needs to advance. Sure, there's no need for cutting edge processors because our 920's run Win10 just fine! Also an 80's car runs fine, but progress is what drives everything forward. We NEED cutting edge processors, high-end everything for our flagships... If you don't need it, then just buy a value-priced phone and be happy. Leave the flagships to the people that strive for the very best.
    tgp likes this.
    07-28-2015 11:30 AM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    I'm guessing as well. I hope and pray it's not the bean counters telling the engineers to make do with less. That mentality went away with the 80s - I hope. My guess is that the higher-spec'd processors don't provide any meaningful performance increases to justify the cost or may degrade performance through heat losses or decreased battery life. That extra nano second of a page load isn't worth the hassle. In my humble opinion.
    My guess is that it's a combination of bean counting (lower cost), availability, and time required to implement the new hardware.
    07-28-2015 11:42 AM
  18. camstreet1's Avatar
    I think the *massive* mistake they made was not releasing this phone 6+ months ago. THere's nothing in the hardware as far as I can tell that has delayed it, but instead they wanted to time it with windows 10 - ridiculous because they could have shipped with wp8 and later upgraded. So they're now in a really awkward position of coming out with a processor that's not just a dud, but a soon-to-be-outdated dud, and paired with other old hat hardware. Other flagships with the 820 will come out early 2016, by MS will probably wait at least a year (if not more...) until they release a new flagship. At which point it'll probably be groundhog day all over again.

    I understand that some people here don't care about hardware and the improvements in speed and battery life they bring, and that's cool. The rest of us want best in class hardware when we pay flagship prices. If MS is going to take a leaf out of the One+ pricing book, however, and price these a couple hundred quid less than other flagships, I take it all back.
    07-28-2015 01:05 PM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I really don't understand the "why do you need that much power" argument... The envelope needs to be kept pushed, innovations are needed, and technology needs to advance. Sure, there's no need for cutting edge processors because our 920's run Win10 just fine! Also an 80's car runs fine, but progress is what drives everything forward. We NEED cutting edge processors, high-end everything for our flagships... If you don't need it, then just buy a value-priced phone and be happy. Leave the flagships to the people that strive for the very best.
    Let me make it simple. Shareholders rule the roost. They expect dividends. Release products that deliver proper performance at an attractive price and build the brand. Samsung has set the standard with the "next big thing" ad campaign and Apple damn near invented it. As for innovation, what would Continuum be considered?

    Sent from my LG G3 via Tapatalk
    tgp, Laura Knotek, libra89 and 1 others like this.
    07-28-2015 03:45 PM
  20. Gustavo Sanchez's Avatar
    Let me make it simple. Shareholders rule the roost. They expect dividends. Release products that deliver proper performance at an attractive price and build the brand. Samsung has set the standard with the "next big thing" ad campaign and Apple damn near invented it. As for innovation, what would Continuum be considered?

    Sent from my LG G3 via Tapatalk
    Continuum is not the only thing that matters. High end hardware is needed to move the next big thing around. Also, consumers are the drivers, not shareholders; look at the MS phone situation right now, and let me know what would have happened if MS have listened to the consumers instead of the shareholders.
    07-28-2015 06:17 PM
  21. JamesDax's Avatar
    Well Motorola just launched their new flagship, the Moto X, and guess what SoC it's packing? Yeap the "outdated" SD808. Guess I won't feel so bad about the 950 having one.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-28-2015 06:27 PM
  22. Gustavo Sanchez's Avatar
    At least the Moto came out already! By the time the MS phones come out, the Galaxy S7 is right around the corner with some kickass power. Why can't MS get ahead of the game for once?
    07-28-2015 10:32 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Continuum is not the only thing that matters. High end hardware is needed to move the next big thing around. Also, consumers are the drivers, not shareholders; look at the MS phone situation right now, and let me know what would have happened if MS have listened to the consumers instead of the shareholders.
    I don't know in what Utopian Society you live in but in the USA, shareholders call the shots. Not the CEOs, not the Board members and certainly not the consumer. Don't believe me? Ask George Zimmerman (The Men's Wearhouse) or Steve Jobs. Two founders who were ousted from their own companies.
    libra89 likes this.
    07-29-2015 12:07 PM
  24. JamesDax's Avatar
    At least the Moto came out already! By the time the MS phones come out, the Galaxy S7 is right around the corner with some kickass power. Why can't MS get ahead of the game for once?
    The 950/950XL will be on par with every other flagship out this year.
    Last edited by fatclue_98; 07-29-2015 at 04:04 PM.
    libra89 likes this.
    07-29-2015 12:15 PM
  25. camstreet1's Avatar
    You've totally missed the point. Yes it will be on a par with other flagships, but it's being released more than 6 months AFTER many of those flagships. Hell, it hasn't even been announced yet, who knows when it will be in store.

    In this industry, being >6 months behind everyone else is seriously uncool.
    Gustavo Sanchez likes this.
    07-30-2015 04:20 PM
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