12-14-2015 11:04 AM
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  1. Big Papa Smurf's Avatar
    Yes, plus sales tax..
    07-25-2015 02:20 PM
  2. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    What I'd like to know is if an unlocked 950XL will work with AT&T LTE Bands. GSM will work for voice/text but many unlocked phones are stuck with WCDMA/UMTS for data when used with AT&T. This is the case with the 930, for example. My understanding is the unlocked 1520.3 works with AT&T LTE though, but I'm not aware of any other WP models that do. Also I thought I'd mention that PayPal Credit may be an option if you order a phone directly from Microsoft. I've used it on other devices such as the Microsoft Band. They typically give no payment/interest for 6 months if you pay it in full by the deadline but be careful because if you don't they will add the interest for the entire 6 months.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    07-25-2015 02:31 PM
  3. Jazmac's Avatar
    Yes, plus sales tax..
    Ok, reality check. Lets put this in context, now unless you're referring to the Lumia 640 XL in your example, its about 240 out the door. but even that will be a few bucks a month on contract.
    High end phones, 200 bucks? Not even close.
    Iphone 6 plus 16 gig, 800.00 plus tax out the door. Iphone 6plus 64 gig, 950 and 128 gig over a grand plus tax, out the door. And its not even on the network yet.
    Galaxy 6 edge 64 gig about 700 plus tax. Nexus 6 about 550.
    The reason why so many people have smart phones is that most are financed by the carriers. Carriers get stuck with massive amounts of debt because a good chunk of those phones are never paid for. People want them and carriers know this and they want to cash in on your need for "status" so like car companies, they buy them and sell them back to you over time "on contract". What you are paying for is the full retail price for the phone plus fees to the carrier for carrying the note.
    07-25-2015 02:50 PM
  4. hagjohn's Avatar
    Even if they offer them unlocked, this still is going to hurt. How many are going to spend over $600 for a phone when they can get an android or iPhone for a fraction of that through ATT? I love Windows phone but I may seriously have to leave it behind. I'm not paying that much for a phone. So once I'm sick of my 1520, I may have to ditch WP if ATT isn't getting a flagship
    You are paying that and more when you buy a subsidized phone through a carrier. It just isn't all up front.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    07-25-2015 03:05 PM
  5. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    You are paying that and more when you buy a subsidized phone through a carrier. It just isn't all up front.
    If you are ok a carrier and you are happy with them I really see no reason to get a factory unlocked phone. Why?

    The only way I would think of is the fact you may want Faster updates


    sent from my iPhone...asking myself why I own one
    libra89 likes this.
    07-25-2015 03:30 PM
  6. fiveaces01's Avatar
    I just converted my roommate to a WP user. He had been waiting for the 640 to become available on Cricket. I had some experience with Cricket having already taken 2 other older friends there to get their first smartphone (lumia 635) and out from under a 68 dollar a month Verizon contract that had 500 mb of data and they were both using old flip phones. Now they pay Cricket $35 a month for unlimited talk and text and 2.5 gb of data (the phone was $79 with a $79 rebate). My roommate got the 640 with the same plan and he paid $99 for the phone. In talking with the Cricket store manager he is under the impression that either the 950 or 950xl will work fine on their Network even if they don't see the device in their store. This is far and away the best company I have seen as far as support for Windows phones go. They understand the OS and actually promote the device while providing really good serice...they run off of AT&T towers
    07-25-2015 04:01 PM
  7. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    I'll offer some math too. Sales tax rate in this example is 6% and $25/month subsidy cost is based on AT&T mobile share value savings when you use either AT&T Next or bring our own device.

    For my AT&T 1520 (32 GB version), the cost at the time was $640. This was in April 2014.

    Using AT&T Next - $38.40 up front for sales tax and then $32/month for 20 months. Total cost is $678.40. Paid off in 20 months.

    Using 24 month contract, $200+tax=$212, plus $40 upgrade fee=$252. Plus $25/month extra for 24 months is $600, total cost $852.00. Paid off in 24 months.

    Using credit card, assuming 18% APR, charge $678.40. Payment approx. $34/month for 24 months, total cost approx $816.
    07-25-2015 04:01 PM
  8. pankaj981's Avatar
    This is what Microsoft should really do...especially here in the US (other countries have similar and or better options)...
    Provide 0% APR 24-36 months financing options when bought off-contract in store as well as through carriers, something that Apple does w/ the Barclays Credit cards. Imagine buying an unlocked unbranded phone with no dependency on carriers (a big finger to all 3, Sprint aside) for updates. If one would like to switch carriers they always can..the financing being from a 3rd party moves with the phone. A 650-700 dollar phone for 2-3 years financing would cost anywhere between 20 to 30 dollars a month. And the best part...its unlocked and carrier free! This is what carriers and companies do in most countries...that's why you see folks buy these high-end high-priced phones.

    Now reality is, such options do exist today. For example, if one is thinking about buying a 650-700 dollar phone they can always opt temporarily for one of those credit cards that provide 0% interest for 12-18 months (not as attractive as 24-36 month options but there is at least an option) and pay off the balance before they start charging. Last time I checked its not going to affect your credit history in a bad way anyways.

    Its more about being aware of the options, if the consumer is not interested in researching..MS should at least come up with some and advertise it heavily enough to create awareness and attract buyers.
    07-25-2015 04:42 PM
  9. pankaj981's Avatar
    This is far and away the best company I have seen as far as support for Windows phones go
    Besides them not supporting Visual Voicemail on non-Cricket phones :-/
    07-25-2015 04:43 PM
  10. MDK22's Avatar
    What I'd like to know is if an unlocked 950XL will work with AT&T LTE Bands. GSM will work for voice/text but many unlocked phones are stuck with WCDMA/UMTS for data when used with AT&T. This is the case with the 930, for example. My understanding is the unlocked 1520.3 works with AT&T LTE though, but I'm not aware of any other WP models that do. Also I thought I'd mention that PayPal Credit may be an option if you order a phone directly from Microsoft. I've used it on other devices such as the Microsoft Band. They typically give no payment/interest for 6 months if you pay it in full by the deadline but be careful because if you don't they will add the interest for the entire 6 months.
    There's the rub (in RED, above) in a nutshell. The average smartphone user does NOT have the ability to ask the question / do the research to answer this question.

    The carrier model still works because of the 'I want it & I want it NOW' mentality.

    IF you buy the unlocked device of your choice from MS, you then have to get the appropriate sized sim for the device. The carrier stores ensure that you walk out the door with a working device. There are still some (GSM) people who DON'T realize they can simply transfer the sim from their old to their new device - and it works. MS would need to have some stock of carrier sims (in the correct size), with the ability to activate said sims & have the customer working out the door.(NOT, you now have to go to your carrier for a new sim).

    In addition, MS may have to discount these devices (read: subsidize) to foster acceptance / grow market share, as well as offer 0% interest plans over 12-24 months.

    an example would be the new Lumia 640 ... it's a great phone for the price ($130. @ T-Mobile, $99.76 @ Walmart for the T-Mobile variant, $80. @ Walmart for the AT&T variant). Had a chance to use my SIL's T-Mobile Lumia 640, she was going to pay $130. @ T-Mobile, but wound up buying it @ Walmart. I recommended it to her, told her where to get it & she absolutely loves it (an upgrade from her Lumia 521). I'm having major problems believing this is an $80 - $100 phone ... somebody's (MS ?) subsidizing these. If you haven't noticed, it's becoming a low-end hit for Windows phone.
    07-25-2015 05:01 PM
  11. hnikesch's Avatar
    My wife just got a 640 XL Lte from ATT and she payed $249 off contract, if she wanted she could have gotten the phone for $0.99 plus $15.00 per month on a 2 year contract that would have cost $360.99 so she saved $111.00 by paying up front and staying off contract. I am using a 640 Lte dual sim that I purchased unlocked online on At&t with only putting in the old sim from my 635 no problems, At&t didn't carry the 640 yet when I got it but I wanted it.
    07-25-2015 05:01 PM
  12. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Rumor has it, you have to sacrifice a goat then sign your soul to Satan.
    Even Satan draws the line somewhere. He doesn't want souls who get their phones from carriers. Seems they won't stop asking him when its going to freeze over.
    07-25-2015 06:01 PM
  13. Jazmac's Avatar
    I'll offer some math too. Sales tax rate in this example is 6% and $25/month subsidy cost is based on AT&T mobile share value savings when you use either AT&T Next or bring our own device.

    For my AT&T 1520 (32 GB version), the cost at the time was $640. This was in April 2014.

    Using AT&T Next - $38.40 up front for sales tax and then $32/month for 20 months. Total cost is $678.40. Paid off in 20 months.

    Using 24 month contract, $200+tax=$212, plus $40 upgrade fee=$252. Plus $25/month extra for 24 months is $600, total cost $852.00. Paid off in 24 months.

    Using credit card, assuming 18% APR, charge $678.40. Payment approx. $34/month for 24 months, total cost approx $816.
    In short, you don't get out of the store with a 500.00 plus phone for 199.99 bucks. It doesn't exist.
    07-25-2015 06:13 PM
  14. d33pth0u9ht's Avatar
    What I don't understand is why people would be upset by this. $600/24mo. comes out to $25/month. ATT charges about that for a subsidized plan today. There is no subsidy, customers are just spreading the payments out over 24 months.

    JPDVM2014 stated above in this forum that once his 1520 is paid off next month, then his bill would be reduced from $150 to $120 a month. The reality is that there is no subsidy and we need to be smarter consumers. ATT is getting the entire price of every phone they sell.
    Jazmac likes this.
    07-25-2015 06:58 PM
  15. tmoore71's Avatar
    AT&T never sold the 925 in their store, at least not here. I got my 925 from AT&T online. Just because they are not carrying a phone in their store does not mean they won't carry it. Let's wait and see.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-25-2015 07:17 PM
  16. Marquis de Faux's Avatar
    There aren't Microsoft Stores everywhere. Microsoft better be selling these phones through a lot of places (Walmart, Best Buy, Fry's, etc.) if they want to sell them without going through the carriers.
    RumoredNow and libra89 like this.
    07-25-2015 07:22 PM
  17. Big Papa Smurf's Avatar
    Ok, reality check. Lets put this in context, now unless you're referring to the Lumia 640 XL in your example, its about 240 out the door. but even that will be a few bucks a month on contract.
    High end phones, 200 bucks? Not even close.
    Iphone 6 plus 16 gig, 800.00 plus tax out the door. Iphone 6plus 64 gig, 950 and 128 gig over a grand plus tax, out the door. And its not even on the network yet.
    Galaxy 6 edge 64 gig about 700 plus tax. Nexus 6 about 550.
    The reason why so many people have smart phones is that most are financed by the carriers. Carriers get stuck with massive amounts of debt because a good chunk of those phones are never paid for. People want them and carriers know this and they want to cash in on your need for "status" so like car companies, they buy them and sell them back to you over time "on contract". What you are paying for is the full retail price for the phone plus fees to the carrier for carrying the note.
    The $200 phone is an example... I pulled a random price point out for an imaginary $500 phone. You would pay more over time instead of buying the phone outright... Which was what my math example was all about.
    Or you could look at some of these other examples where they used more realistic price points...
    07-25-2015 07:53 PM
  18. Lumious's Avatar
    Id rather have the 950 over the 950XL anyways. The Icon is 5" and that is about right, if the rumored specs of 5.2" for the 950 are true then that size might just be perfect. 5.7" is getting too close to that 6" phablet size of the 1520 and 1320.
    07-25-2015 09:42 PM
  19. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    AT&T never sold the 925 in their store, at least not here. I got my 925 from AT&T online. Just because they are not carrying a phone in their store does not mean they won't carry it. Let's wait and see.
    I actually saw the 925 in an AT&T store shortly after it was released. The 32 GB version of the 1520 was online only though; it was never available at a store as far as I know. I think of this as a wait and see approach though. AT&T will see how the 950 sells and will consider carrying the 950 XL after that, possibly only online but possibly in the stores too.
    07-25-2015 09:43 PM
  20. Jazmac's Avatar
    I actually saw the 925 in an AT&T store shortly after it was released. The 32 GB version of the 1520 was online only though; it was never available at a store as far as I know. I think of this as a wait and see approach though. AT&T will see how the 950 sells and will consider carrying the 950 XL after that, possibly only online but possibly in the stores too.
    I could probably rock either the 950 or the 950XL. I lean towards the 950. I've been down the 1520 road and as much as I like it, I simply got used to it. I may not need a phone as large as the XL. But that could change. :)
    07-25-2015 10:51 PM
  21. drtek's Avatar
    AT&T's monthly service is expensive because there is a subsidy built in to the regular service price. If you pay full price for a phone on your own, you're pretty much paying the rate of a subsidy without getting subsidized.

    Then add the $15 BYOD fee...
    Fortunately, I have a 1020 thru AT&Terrible. I just have to swap out the SIM.
    Last edited by gamo62; 07-25-2015 at 11:38 PM.
    07-25-2015 11:16 PM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    What I'd like to know is if an unlocked 950XL will work with AT&T LTE Bands. GSM will work for voice/text but many unlocked phones are stuck with WCDMA/UMTS for data when used with AT&T. This is the case with the 930, for example. My understanding is the unlocked 1520.3 works with AT&T LTE though, but I'm not aware of any other WP models that do. Also I thought I'd mention that PayPal Credit may be an option if you order a phone directly from Microsoft. I've used it on other devices such as the Microsoft Band. They typically give no payment/interest for 6 months if you pay it in full by the deadline but be careful because if you don't they will add the interest for the entire 6 months.
    The 930 never got Bands for the US because of that exclusivity Vzw had on the Icon. Exclusivity deals really cripple consumer choice and is a part of the old model that Microsoft most especially needs to avoid. Look what happened:

    AT&T gets an exclusive for the 1520 and hamstrings it by yanking Qi and shoving PMA in. Then they rub salt in the wound by halving internal storage. Bye Bye nice flag in the US.

    Verizon gets an exclusive on the 930 in the US. Update? What update? Oh that update! (Narrowly avoids pitchfork toting mob of their own customers.) Sure the SIM tray is unlocked. Good luck getting MMS anywhere off Vzw after they finally added their own touch to the firmware they pushed late. Another nice flag trampled in the mud.

    AT&T get an exclusive on 830. But wait, every 830 in the world has full denim and Lumia Camera 5 with Rich Capture except the AT&T model and (for IDK what reason) the Argentinian Country Variant. Check the 830 forum, AT&T users with 830 are talking fraud and class action lawsuit.

    3 strikes, they should be out. The US carriers are all playing on the same team against YOU the American consumer and they are wiping the field with you. The game is rigged and few enough people on Our team are checking the rule book.

    They got you buffaloed Maaz. Please, for your own sake, do some research. The 1520.3 - yep it works on AT&T and ATT mvno, ditto T-Mo + mvno. And if you unlock an AT&T 1520 you can enable the 1700 MHz band on 3G and take that puppy walking over to T-Mo no problem.

    There are plenty of Factory Unlocked phones that work perfectly fine on AT&T including LTE. There is a Factory Unlocked 830 (RM-985) that works on AT&T 100% AND has full Denim.

    The 640 XL in RM-1045 gets every frequency top to bottom for AT&T, T-Mo and just about anyplace in the world with 13 (yes 13) bands of LTE. Ditto the 640 in RM-1075 every frequency for US GSM and a still impressive 11 bands of LTE for world travel.

    Lumia 830 in RM-985 we already mentioned. Full AT&T and only an issue on T-Mo if the area is not refarmed to LTE (and that area is shrinking monthly).

    Lumia 735 in RM-1039 is 100% AT&T compatible. It might have a hiccup on T-Mo as band 17 LTE is not quite as broad as band 12, but everything else is a match.

    Lumia 435 in RM-1068 is an H+ phone that is full on compatible with AT&T. Likewise the 532 in RM-1032, 100% AT&T ready in an H+ device. Same with the 535 in RM-1092.

    How about a BNIB 1320 in RM-995 that is Unlocked and ready for AT&T and T-Mo?

    There are more Lumias, I'm tired of digging. Do I need to mention Blu? Unlocked and their track record is that with no firmware they test and OTA fast. Great for slim footprint OS on the phone and commited to updating you...

    The phones are out there. You can research them and get them. Don't ever let the US GSM carriers lead you to believe they have the only phones that work on their network. It simply is not true.


    If you are ok a carrier and you are happy with them I really see no reason to get a factory unlocked phone. Why?

    The only way I would think of is the fact you may want Faster updates
    Not just faster, more assured. There are a lot of phones out there which US carriers are not updating when all the other variants around the world have stepped up.
    07-25-2015 11:40 PM
  23. Joe Acerbic's Avatar
    Yes, there are many AT&T and T-Mo compatible Lumias floating around the world. It's just that with Nokia, if you bought a non-USA model for use on a U.S. carrier, you got no support and no warranty if anything went wrong. When the gadget costs $600-$700, that's a consideration.
    pankaj981 likes this.
    07-25-2015 11:57 PM
  24. RumoredNow's Avatar
    07-26-2015 12:01 AM
  25. pankaj981's Avatar
    https://www.bing.com/search?q=phone+...ZI&form=MOZLBR
    Yes, there are many AT&T and T-Mo compatible Lumias floating around the world. It's just that with Nokia, if you bought a non-USA model for use on a U.S. carrier, you got no support and no warranty if anything went wrong. When the gadget costs $600-$700, that's a consideration.
    You both have a point but the later one does have more weight. The reason one would have to import these phones is due to the carrier exclusivity BS. That needs to stop and MS should start selling phones directly through stores so that the phones and consumers get the treatment they they deserve. Carriers here in the US provide only one year of warranty while in many parts of the world 2 is the norm. There are ton of flaws in the system favoring the carriers to push newer devices quickly after either stopping support or not providing warranty, that needs to change...but that's a different discussion.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-26-2015 12:25 AM
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