12-14-2015 10:04 AM
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  1. missionsparta's Avatar
    While this is ridiculous, with it being rumored to be GSM, we will be able to just pick one up at a Microsoft Store and go, correct?
    07-24-2015 09:12 AM
  2. Ed Boland's Avatar
    Yes, AT&T has their "BYOD" plans, and as long as the device supports their GSM bands, there shouldn't be an issue. But for AT&T not to have the 950XL, and only offer the 950, is going to make a lot of people mad. (including me!) We've been waiting for a real flagship for so long, the regular 950 "Talkman" isn't going to cut it... not when there's the bigger, faster, 950XL out there. And I sure hope AT&T doesn't try any of their notorious tricks, and offer us a gimped 16GB version either.
    07-24-2015 09:54 AM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I truly believe and sincerely hope that Microsoft is going to double down on Factory Unlocked phones and 3rd party distribution.

    For the health of the platform.

    Carriers don't care about the platform and seem to actively block its success and availability.
    07-24-2015 10:37 AM
  4. JPDVM2014's Avatar
    I truly believe and sincerely hope that Microsoft is going to double down on Factory Unlocked phones and 3rd party distribution.

    For the health of the platform.

    Carriers don't care about the platform and seem to actively block its success and availability.
    This is probably true, the only problem is that most people buy their phones from the carrier. I have never met anyone who has gone out of their way to buy an unlocked phone. Especially with the phone subsidies from carriers. I would love to have the 950XL, but unless MSFT has some sort of payment plan similar to Next, I will probably be stuck with the 950.
    mkenyon2 likes this.
    07-24-2015 11:22 AM
  5. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    This is probably true, the only problem is that most people buy their phones from the carrier. I have never met anyone who has gone out of their way to buy an unlocked phone. Especially with the phone subsidies from carriers. I would love to have the 950XL, but unless MSFT has some sort of payment plan similar to Next, I will probably be stuck with the 950.
    You probably have several of those payment plans already. They are the little plastic cards in your wallet with raised numbers imprinted on them.
    07-24-2015 11:32 AM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I have never met anyone who has gone out of their way to buy an unlocked phone.
    Hi. My name is RumoredNow, nice to meet you. I, and many others on all the phone forums, do exactly that on a regular basis.

    Just because you don't look at it does not mean it does not exist. Outside of the US it quite normal to buy your phone independent of your service. In recent years it is a growing market right here in the US.
    07-24-2015 11:58 AM
  7. JPDVM2014's Avatar
    You probably have several of those payment plans already. They are the little plastic cards in your wallet with raised numbers imprinted on them.
    Actually, I don't. I prefer paying for most things in full when I'm able to. I haven't had an active credit card account in a couple years. New phones are, unfortunately, a weakness of mine. I know Next isn't really a great deal, but it is better than having a 20% apr credit card balance.
    07-24-2015 12:05 PM
  8. JPDVM2014's Avatar
    Hi. My name is RumoredNow, nice to meet you. I, and many others on all the phone forums, do exactly that on a regular basis.

    Just because you don't look at it does not mean it does not exist. Outside of the US it quite normal to buy your phone independent of your service. In recent years it is a growing market right here in the US.
    Hi, my name is JPDVM2014. I've never met you in real life. Hence, my statement that I have never met anyone who has bought an unlocked phone is still true. I understand that people DO buy them, but "many others on all the phone forums" are still a relative minority when compared to total smartphone sales. Also, I fail to see how the norm outside of the US has anything to do with AT&T. Last I checked, AT&T was a US carrier. It may be a growing trend here in the US, but it isn't the norm by any means. I am excited that MSFT seems to be gearing up to offer more phones direct to customers, I was just stating that it still doesn't make up for it not being offered, subsidized, through a carrier.
    Last edited by JPDVM2014; 07-24-2015 at 12:33 PM.
    Mmazeo likes this.
    07-24-2015 12:13 PM
  9. missionsparta's Avatar
    Either way, if this Windows Phone thing is going to fly, they have to offer in store and with the carriers. They can't make it a chore to get these things. The great majority aren't going to do homework and run all over to get these things. The only ones who will are the die hard fans and that is not the majority you are trying to sell to. They have to be offered with the carrier, with Microsoft, and all the options have to be available. And it wont matter if it is being sold with the carrier if their hq allows their employees to sit and tell everyone that comes in, that Windows Phone sucks.
    07-24-2015 12:31 PM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    Either way, if this Windows Phone thing is going to fly, they have to offer in store and with the carriers. They can't make it a chore to get these things. The great majority aren't going to do homework and run all over to get these things. The only ones who will are the die hard fans and that is not the majority you are trying to sell to. They have to be offered with the carrier, with Microsoft, and all the options have to be available. And it wont matter if it is being sold with the carrier if their hq allows their employees to sit and tell everyone that comes in, that Windows Phone sucks.
    Well as we all know, typically US carriers are reluctant to carry WP devices, and if they aren't on board that's basically it. It seems only ATT has bitten for one new Lumia device and they've apparently settled on the 950 which should be a good seller for them. For anyone else hell bent on a carrier phone, well better talk to your carrier. For those who want choice, it seems MS will be selling them unlocked and fully compatible so that need is met as well. Pretty much the best you can expect, in the US at least.

    For enlightened countries in Europe, carrier exclusivity BS doesn't count as you can buy unlocked and use anywhere and even get it subsidized from online retailers with wireless service as well so if Microsoft plays their cards right and recognizes that Europe actually buy WP devices, they should do well there.

    And it wont matter if it is being sold with the carrier if their hq allows their employees to sit and tell everyone that comes in, that Windows Phone sucks.
    Well no argument there. And its the prime reason I don't give a toss about US carriers getting them as they generally mess up selling them anyway.
    07-24-2015 01:07 PM
  11. Steve Adams's Avatar
    Hi. My name is RumoredNow, nice to meet you. I, and many others on all the phone forums, do exactly that on a regular basis.

    Just because you don't look at it does not mean it does not exist. Outside of the US it quite normal to buy your phone independent of your service. In recent years it is a growing market right here in the US.
    Hi, nice to meet you! I am buying two xl's from Microsoft direct as well.
    07-24-2015 01:17 PM
  12. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I was just stating that it still doesn't make up for it not being offered, subsidized, through a carrier.
    No it doesn't. But staying exclusively with the old model is not working either.

    If A&T gets the 950 as an exclusive in the US, then that is just as bad for others who are NOT on AT&T as AT&T walking away from the phone.

    I'm not saying the carries can't have the phones. I'm saying Microsoft can't afford to continue allowing the carriers to control availability. Whether or not someone goes off carrier to get a phone doesn't hurt a carrier loyalist. However, carrier loyalists fighting to have their carrier be "the one" hurts the wider field of consumers and has crippled Microsoft's mobile efforts in the US.

    As for the norm outside of the US... Is it not possible that there is a better way and AT&T doesn't have the only path to obtaining a phone?

    I don't want to limit your phone choice. I simply want to be more enabled to pursue my choice.
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 07-24-2015 at 03:03 PM.
    07-24-2015 02:31 PM
  13. Joe Acerbic's Avatar
    AT&T of course won't sell it unless they have an absolute, ironclad exclusive on it in USA and as tight as possible ban on importing any slightly T-Mobile compatible versions from anywhere. If Microsoft really denied AT&T that, my respect for them went up several notches.
    07-24-2015 02:58 PM
  14. JPDVM2014's Avatar
    No it doesn't. But staying exclusively with the old model is not working either.

    If A&T gets the 950 as an exclusive in the US, then that is just as bad for others who are NOT on AT&T as AT&T walking away from the phone.

    I'm not saying the carries can't have the phones. I'm saying Microsoft can't afford to continue allowing the carriers to control availability. Whether or not someone goes off carrier to get a phone doesn't hurt a carrier loyalist. However, carrier loyalists fighting to have their carrier be "the one" hurts the wider field of consumers and has crippled Microsoft's mobile efforts in the US.

    As for the norm outside of the US... Is it not possible that there is a better way and AT&T doesn't have the only path to obtaining a phone?

    I don't want to limit your phone choice. I simply want to be more enabled to pursue my choice.
    So, I think I may have been misunderstood somewhere. I am not against MSFT selling unlocked phones in their stores that can be used on any carrier. This is how it should have been from the beginning. I think carrier exclusivity does nothing except hurt the consumer.

    Also, how most of the world does mobile is infinitely better than the US. No argument from me there. I was just stating that it isn't really mainstream here in the US...yet.

    I don't want to limit anyone's phone choice either. I just want to be able to pick up the 950XL on a payment plan that doesn't involve a credit card. I know that purchasing a phone outright is the "best" way, but I like Next. I can have the phone and make payments towards it, while also saving to pay it off early so that I can get the price reduction on my plan.

    I wouldn't want it on AT&T at the expense of everyone else not being able to get it though. Unfortunately, like Joe Acerbic pointed out, AT&T is probably playing hardball and wants it as an exclusive. And as you pointed out, that hasn't worked this far, so it is good to see MSFT trying something different. I just wish it was possible to have it both ways. Maybe someday.
    07-24-2015 03:14 PM
  15. tangledW's Avatar
    The way I understand it, the XL will work on AT&T. So you'll just need to acquire it through a 3rd party or possibly the MS Store.
    07-24-2015 03:19 PM
  16. Reflexx's Avatar
    AT&T's monthly service is expensive because there is a subsidy built in to the regular service price. If you pay full price for a phone on your own, you're pretty much paying the rate of a subsidy without getting subsidized.

    Then add the $15 BYOD fee...
    a5cent, xandros9 and aximtreo like this.
    07-24-2015 03:44 PM
  17. JPDVM2014's Avatar
    AT&T's monthly service is expensive because there is a subsidy built in to the regular service price. If you pay full price for a phone on your own, you're pretty much paying the rate of a subsidy without getting subsidized.

    Then add the $15 BYOD fee...
    AT&T used to work this way, but it doesn't anymore. At least not on the no-contract plans. It isn't cheap by any means, but it is cheaper if you bring your own phone. I currently pay $150 for two lines with 15GB shared data. Once my 1520 is paid off next week, my bill will drop to $120 a month.

    EDIT: This price isn't what a new customer would get. I get a $15/month employer discount and AT&T upgraded me from 10gb to 15gb for free last month. So I'm only paying the 10gb price, but getting 15gb. I'm not sure why, but I'm not questioning it until they try to start charging me for it. :-)
    07-24-2015 05:15 PM
  18. Ed Boland's Avatar
    The way I understand it, the XL will work on AT&T. So you'll just need to acquire it through a 3rd party or possibly the MS Store.
    Of course. But I think what JPDVM2014, and others are saying, is that a lot of people in the U.S. prefer NOT to (or can't afford) to go out and spend 5-6 hundred bucks on a new phone. It's a lot easier to walk out of an AT&T store with no money down, and easy monthly payments...

    AT&T not getting the XL will leave it out of reach for many that are used to the subsidized, "NEXT" way of buying phones.
    07-24-2015 11:31 PM
  19. pjm1891's Avatar
    AT&T used to work this way, but it doesn't anymore. At least not on the no-contract plans. It isn't cheap by any means, but it is cheaper if you bring your own phone. I currently pay $150 for two lines with 15GB shared data. Once my 1520 is paid off next week, my bill will drop to $120 a month.

    EDIT: This price isn't what a new customer would get. I get a $15/month employer discount and AT&T upgraded me from 10gb to 15gb for free last month. So I'm only paying the 10gb price, but getting 15gb. I'm not sure why, but I'm not questioning it until they try to start charging me for it. :-)
    I'm sorry for off-topic, but wow you guys in the US sure are getting shafted with those prices! Here in Sweden where I live you can get a plan from one of the big carriers with 20gb for the equivalent of $35. Pretty much all plans with all carriers are unlimited calls/text, you only choose how much data you want. These prices are without a phone, you can add a phone with a added monthly cost with pretty much all carriers, but it's often just cheaper to buy a phone from somewhere else than straight from the carrier. All big electronics stores and on-line retailers compete for business so they almost always have financing plans with 0% interest for 6-12 months, if you don't wanna pay upfront for a phone.
    07-25-2015 01:35 AM
  20. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Personally I think the 950 is going to be the more popular of the two
    JPDVM2014 and bobsjets like this.
    07-25-2015 01:52 AM
  21. aximtreo's Avatar
    Hypothetically, what would happen if MS brought the GSM and CDMA phones to their store and sold them on whatever network you wanted. MS has the means to finance the phone if you need and can sell outright if you want.

    Now the rub, wouldn't the FCC force AT&T and all the other carriers to activate these phones?

    Couldn't MS sell their phones using the MVNO suppliers such as Straight Talk etc. I would definitely buy the 940 XL from MS if I knew Straight Talk would activate it on Verizon or any of the GSM carriers.

    Just a thought about a possible way around the carriers not carrying the full line of MS phones.
    RumoredNow and Kevin Rush like this.
    07-25-2015 08:22 AM
  22. Joe Acerbic's Avatar
    Now the rub, wouldn't the FCC force AT&T and all the other carriers to activate these phones?
    An unlocked GSM phone doesn't need to be activated in any other way than putting a SIM card in it, unless a donkeyhole carrier actively blocks it.
    aximtreo and Kevin Rush like this.
    07-25-2015 08:31 AM
  23. DaveGx's Avatar
    Even if they offer them unlocked, this still is going to hurt. How many are going to spend over $600 for a phone when they can get an android or iPhone for a fraction of that through ATT? I love Windows phone but I may seriously have to leave it behind. I'm not paying that much for a phone. So once I'm sick of my 1520, I may have to ditch WP if ATT isn't getting a flagship
    07-25-2015 08:42 AM
  24. aximtreo's Avatar
    An unlocked GSM phone doesn't need to be activated in any other way than putting a SIM card in it, unless a donkeyhole carrier actively blocks it.
    So, it MS decides to sell the 950XL on their site and you are an AT&T user, I could just pop in the SIM card. thanks for that info.
    07-25-2015 08:44 AM
  25. DaveGx's Avatar
    So no flagship for Verizon and possibly the best flagship not being available for ATT. The two most popular carriers in the US. Hate to say it but this really is bad news for WP's future. Locked phones available or not, many are not going to spend $600 for a phone. And this is not going to bring in new people.
    07-25-2015 08:47 AM
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