12-02-2015 10:33 PM
1,084 ... 1112131415 ...
tools
  1. 920Walker's Avatar
    GSM4Life. Can you hear me now?
    10-09-2015 12:37 PM
  2. xsikal's Avatar
    After years of us complaining on this very forum for Microsoft to take action against crap carriers like this they finally did, yet here we are with people moaning.
    Yes, here we are, because a lot of us ARE on Verizon, and if we wanted a new windows phone, we're out of luck. (Incidentally, I'm one of the people who bought an HTC One(m8)). The fact that you think it's a good idea to make it impossible to get the new windows phones on one of the US's major carriers just confuses me.

    (Edit: And I'm far from a verizon apologist. But the reception for AT&T and T-Mobil is crap out in the country where I live, so Verizon is one of my only choices if I want to actually get calls)
    10-09-2015 12:53 PM
  3. msft_tinkering's Avatar
    Yes, Verizon is far from easy to do business with. They did a great job of proving that again and again with the last instance being the pig headedness of holding up Denim firmware because they insisted that it include the vzw crapware. Microsoft did point out to them that they could push out updates via the store, but vzw wouldn't budge.

    Verizon's CDMA network exists in one country. GSM & WCDMA are prevalent everywhere else. I really don't blame Microsoft for not making the effort to validate their devices for use on a single carrier in a single country.

    What Windows Phone enthusiasts are left with is the choice of moving to a GSM carrier to get a new device or sticking with what they've got. Each of us has to make that decision on their own. I wish I didn't have to, but that's the reality of the situation.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-09-2015 12:53 PM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    I believe there is validity to this. If one manufacturer has too much power over a carrier, they can impose whatever rules they want like Apple does with iPhone (can't display any color around it, can't display next to non-iPhones, and can't even display directly next to iPad). Verizon has gotten cozy with Samsung to combat Apple's power, but once Samsung gets too big, Verizon will need to look elsewhere for a new "friend." If Microsoft can make Windows Phone popular, the power struggle becomes harder for the other guys to get any ground against Verizon. Same goes for other carriers, too, in the US. This is not an issue for other carriers, mostly because of GSM vs CDMA (especially outside the US).

    The more balanced the ecosystem is, the fairer the game. That's my understanding. But don't quote me on it. I don't know if there is any actual evidence to support it. Just carriers and manufacturers puffing out their chests.
    I agree; it makes sense that it would be an advantage to the carrier to have more options in the smartphone market for the reasons you listed. OTOH, it would be more devices and operating systems to support.

    But if it really is an advantage to the carriers, then why don't they push WP, and why did they shelve BlackBerry? This makes me think that the idea isn't valid in the real world. Do they not see WP and BlackBerry as being the right products to compete with iPhone and Android? Are WP and BB difficult to support technically speaking? If the carriers thought that there would be a penny to gain by pushing them, they would. But they aren't.

    The US carriers are probably a little wiser than we give them credit for. Without AT&T, where would the iPhone be? Without Verizon, where would Android be? Now I do realize that the success of iPhone and Android isn't all due to the brilliance of AT&T and Verizon; it was probably more a product of the power they had to make the new OS's relevant in the world of WM and BlackBerry. Evidently they saw "the next big thing" coming, and it wasn't Microsoft's or RIM's products.

    In a nutshell, my thought is that although the idea of at least a 3rd player in the smartphone market is an advantage to the carriers, it seems that the carriers don't think so. At least they're not doing anything about it when they have an opportunity.
    10-09-2015 01:02 PM
  5. Brett Sites's Avatar
    T-Mobile doesn't seem to have the coverage (and I found out AT&T might not, either) in little Bedford, IA, where one of my phones is used. The other two in Florida (Tampa area) should be fine no matter who I use. Never had a problem with Verizon network, but used to have problems with Sprint in some areas before that switch a few years ago. (Wanted to get the 928 day it was released.) Really hoping to get that 950XL. Won't need a tablet after that.
    10-09-2015 01:16 PM
  6. atst44's Avatar
    Why no attention about the 810 having the hardware? (Paraphrased)

    Because it didn't allow the LG G Flex2, *HTC M9 (Any Version), One Plus 2, and possibly others be usable on Verizon. How about the LG G4? Is there an *unlocked version of that phone working on Verizon? It seems to be rather irrelevant.

    I understand wanting to believe, but it just wasn't meant to be...
    10-09-2015 01:20 PM
  7. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Why no attention about the 810 having the hardware? (Paraphrased)

    Because it didn't allow the LG G Flex2, *HTC M9 (Any Version), One Plus 2, and possibly others be usable on Verizon. How about the LG G4? Is there an *unlocked version of that phone working on Verizon? It seems to be rather irrelevant.

    I understand wanting to believe, but it just wasn't meant to be...
    Google somehow got Verizon, Sprint, T-Mo, and AT&T to all carry the Nexus 6, and I don't understand why Microsoft couldn't have done the same. It's not like Nexus phones are massively popular.
    10-09-2015 02:07 PM
  8. MikeSo's Avatar
    Google somehow got Verizon, Sprint, T-Mo, and AT&T to all carry the Nexus 6, and I don't understand why Microsoft couldn't have done the same. It's not like Nexus phones are massively popular.
    It could simply be a case of Huawei having much better production capacity than Microsoft does.
    10-09-2015 02:25 PM
  9. chuckyj1's Avatar
    "Ironically, I also was ready to dump my Icon (because no support from Verizon) for the Samsung Galaxy Note 5. Like you, after seeing the 950XL have decided to hold out for a while. Talked to Verizon tech support today to see if Verizon would support the unlocked 950XL. They did not have any info on the 950XL, but since it has dual sims and supports both CDMA/GMS they indicated it should work on their network. They would not know for sure until they have more info about on it."

    Source:
    answers Microsoft dot com website. I would have posted the link, but CAN'T because I haven't posted 10 times....
    10-09-2015 02:26 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    It's not like Nexus phones are massively popular.
    They're not, but Android is. And it doesn't look like the carriers are going to carry this year's Nexus devices.

    The carrier Nexus 6's weren't all factory. Verizon did no more than put their logo on the back, but AT&T SIM locked it and had a custom boot animation besides putting their logo on it. Google didn't have total control! Sprint and T-Mobile left them 100% stock.
    10-09-2015 02:34 PM
  11. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    Though I could see Verizon not wanting to stock ANY Windows 10 Mobile device if the agreement centers around Microsoft controlling updates. Panos hinted at that in his presentation. That may actually be the sticking point here. AT&T may be willing to let Microsoft do normal Windows Updates. That is likely going to be a requirement for all Windows 10 Mobile devices going forward - and Microsoft likely will give the OEMs a direct line to update their own phones as well if they decide to build devices.
    This is my thought as well. T-mobile is probably in the same boat with insisting that they control updates due to whatever special-sauce they need for the wifi calling. AT&T probably was willing to allow a mostly "vanilla" 950/950XL that enabled MS to push their updates directly. I guess we'll see...after the 830 debacle MS can't really afford to have their flagship crippled by a carrier-held update process.
    10-09-2015 03:00 PM
  12. phelme's Avatar
    Paul Thurrott has an interesting article, "Your Fear of Limited Lumia Availability is Misplaced" to read about this.

    In the comments section there is feedback from someone who went to an MS Store and was told it's not that the Verizon radio bands aren't in the chipset (which they are by default in both the 808 and 810), it's that MS has specifically locked out CDMA and band 13 in firmware. Which follows back to what Paul was told by MS execs about carrier relationships.
    10-09-2015 03:02 PM
  13. MoggSquad's Avatar
    I found that interesting too. So can this turn into one of those things due to overwhelming outcry they unlock those bands?

    I guess the only concern would be is if Verizon would provide technical support for them if there are carrier issues. MS Store can take care of the phone / OS specific part.

    Paul Thurrott has an interesting article, "Your Fear of Limited Lumia Availability is Misplaced" to read about this.

    In the comments section there is feedback from someone who went to an MS Store and was told it's not that the Verizon radio bands aren't in the chipset (which they are by default in both the 808 and 810), it's that MS has specifically locked out CDMA and band 13 in firmware. Which follows back to what Paul was told by MS execs about carrier relationships.
    10-09-2015 03:36 PM
  14. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    OK ... HOT off the Press ... Microsoft "confirms exclusivity WAS THEIR IDEA"!

    Microsoft confirms that Lumia 950/XL US carrier exclusivity was their idea - WMPoweruser

    FIRST of all = FIRE or re-assign that person as, "in parallel" with the UNLOCKED directly form Microsoft throws a whole different spin on "why exclusivity" has FAILED yet Microsoft "still tries this game"!

    NOW, the $64,000 question is "since the Qualcomm 810 contains ALL of the radios - several people posted, is that correct - then, IS IT POSSIBLE that an "unlocked 950XL "might work some day" on Verizon?

    So, say I buy a 950XL form Microsoft "unlocked" - and temporarily switch to AT&T - to enjoy all of the power ... did I just buy a "boat anchor" or a bet that Microsoft's UNLOCKED strategy "is a Trojan horse"!
    containing all of the radios in hardware/firmware is just one piece of the puzzle. A big chunk of the viability of what you suggest is regulatory...one would need to see how MS presented the phones to the FCC. If they only ran the certification tests on GSM bands, then the phone is forbidden from using CDMA stuff even if a software patch was available to enable it. While not unheard of, it is very rare that a second certification round is done on the same phone to add capabilities. More likely, a Verizon-specific SKU would be created and run through the normal sets of paperwork and tests to avoid having to retroactively change working phones that are already out in customer's hands.

    As many of us have learned the hard way over the years...always buy a phone for the capabilities it has NOW, not what it "might" have down the road. If the phone you want doesn't have the capabilities you want/need at the time of purchase, then you should either wait or buy something else. Never spend money on a technical pipe-dream or marketing promise.
    tgp, 11B1P and MikeSo like this.
    10-09-2015 04:08 PM
  15. Sick Freak's Avatar
    And JUST in time for the phone conversation.....

    AT&T's WiFi calling feature is now available
    Apple only.
    Dan Liddiard likes this.
    10-09-2015 05:42 PM
  16. Sick Freak's Avatar
    I Am not in the US don't know why Verizon has different frequencies then everyone else in the world. But I think every one that lives in the US should walk in to their local Verizon store and ask to see the Lumia 950 when they say they don't carry it should loudly say well I guess I have to go to AT&T store. and
    storm out ;-)
    Yea, my family plans on doing something like that. We'll go in and ask for a flagship Windows 10 phablet and when we get turned down, I'm going to remind them that I've been asking them for years for one and since they continue to not let us have one, we're going to another carrier that does.... and then calmly walk out.

    And then the next day, after we have the devices, I'm going to come in with other (extended) family and friends/acquaintances and do the same thing. And again and again and again. Additionally, each account will write an e-mail to Verizon Executives (haven't thought about which person yet) letting them know that we left and why. Right now, I know for sure that we will move about a dozen lines and have many more that will probably switch if AT&T or T-Mobile covers them well enough. There are more that would, but VZW is the only carrier in their area. Yea, I know that VZW doesn't care about a few dozen accounts, but if enough of us makes noise, they might at least take notice.

    "Can you hear me now?"
    10-09-2015 05:53 PM
  17. Sick Freak's Avatar
    Its seems everyone is forgetting one thing? You guys remember when the 920 came out, Verizon didnt have it by then. But months later they launched their own version of it (Lumia 928). So let just keep our fingers crossed since Microsoft stated this is a temporary move. And also Microsoft is not really interested in sales figures at the moment. So they might rather have it the hands of a few at the moment. Polishing the OS at the moment is their top priority. when this is achieved ,who knows we might see the Verizon or the T-Mobile Versions.
    Well... if they're not interested is sales, they can always give these things away.
    10-09-2015 06:00 PM
  18. Penny_1's Avatar
    If it comes to light that Microsoft intentionally locked out CDMA bands for no other reason than whatever twisted relationship they have with Verizon, I will be the first to leave Microsoft after several long years of dedicated usage and support. I don't care what problems you two have; your customers did nothing to deserve the fallout.

    So Microsoft, you need to clear this up without the runaround. We know AT&T is an official channel and partner for the 950. We know the 950 and 950XL will be available directly from you unlocked. Where am I not going to be able to use these unlocked phones? Does the carrier just not want to support it or did you block it from being used on the carrier?

    All I know is your fans don't deserve the continued uncertainty. If the devices are going to work on Verizon unlocked, tell us. If the devices are not going to work and we need to switch to a new carrier, tell us. If the devices are not going to work because you actively blocked it, tell us now so I don't waste another month sitting on this overdue upgrade.
    Frank Kajtazi, a5cent and dkediger like this.
    10-09-2015 06:02 PM
  19. Sick Freak's Avatar
    Honestly, even if you are on AT&T, this should be really bad news. Why?

    Because how can the marketshare of W10M grow fast enough for developers to invest in it (even just to port their iOS and/or Android apps) if these devices are limited to one carrier in the US (and apparently none in Canada)?

    This has formally shaken any faith I had in W10M's success. I really thought (hoped?) that MS had a forward-thinking plan here and I'm sorry but this is just not it. In many ways, this feels less hopeful than the launch of WP7 ...
    Don't forget universal apps (the way it always should have been.) If a developer does it that way, it works on all Windows devices, not just phones. I think this will be a game changer.
    10-09-2015 06:12 PM
  20. Sick Freak's Avatar
    After years of us complaining on this very forum for Microsoft to take action against crap carriers like this they finally did, yet here we are with people moaning. Personally I applaud this move, it wont make one jot of difference to their sales numbers as you could hardly buy a Windows device from Verizon today anyway. So lets kick that delusion to the curb right now.
    I can't agree more! I remember when the 1520 came out and I almost jumped ship to get it, but when I made a big stink about it to VZW, the promised and promised that a 6" Windows phablet was right around the corner. Of course, the closest they came was the Icon and then there was the Denim/Cyan debacle.... I admit it - I've been to complacent and should have left VZW and gotten the 1520!

    Yea, if someone doesn't want to work with me, then why should I go out of my way to help them make my life harder?
    Dan Liddiard likes this.
    10-09-2015 06:24 PM
  21. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    "and supports both CDMA/GMS they indicated it should work on their network. They would not know for sure until they have more info about on it."

    Source:
    answers Microsoft dot com website. I would have posted the link, but CAN'T because I haven't posted 10 times....
    No, it doesn't support CDMA. That's the problem.

    Last edited by TexasLabRat; 10-09-2015 at 08:27 PM.
    10-09-2015 06:56 PM
  22. calfee20's Avatar
    A long time ago someone mentioned that the carriers and especially Verizon fear and hate Microsoft because of Skype. If Microsoft ever gained the point of popularity of android they could kill the carriers with Skype. We would all be walking around with data devices. PC's with internet in our pockets.

    This is going to happen. It is happening now. Unlimited talk and text is a given now because the main difference in plans is DATA. How much data and how much does it cost. If google had bought Skype perhaps Windows phone would be doing better now.
    PepperdotNet likes this.
    10-09-2015 07:10 PM
  23. oldpueblo's Avatar
    Paul Thurrott has an interesting article, "Your Fear of Limited Lumia Availability is Misplaced" to read about this.

    In the comments section there is feedback from someone who went to an MS Store and was told it's not that the Verizon radio bands aren't in the chipset (which they are by default in both the 808 and 810), it's that MS has specifically locked out CDMA and band 13 in firmware. Which follows back to what Paul was told by MS execs about carrier relationships.
    I saw that too. But what I didn't see was any kind of proof of any kind, just his assumption. I still highly doubt MS would do it to just be petty, there is much more likely a regulatory/licensing reason. I mean let's look at who is setting precedents for screwing the WP users. It's Verizon not MS. Verizon's handling of the Icon says a lot about this, I mean they even stripped out double-tap to wake from the Icon for no reason. My friend was furious about that when he upgraded from his 928. And by the way he had to upgrade via a used Icon because he couldn't even get it from Verizon because they retired it so fast. So basically until there is firm evidence, I still say Verizon is the cause. MS may or may not have locked the bands or not included them or whatever. But WHY is what matters. Context/intent are always necessary before we can understand the problem/place the blame.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    10-09-2015 07:23 PM
  24. Sick Freak's Avatar
    Unlimited talk and text is a given now because the main difference in plans is DATA. How much data and how much does it cost.
    I find it fascinating how the pendulum has swung. First it was really expensive for voice and text and we got unlimited data for just a few dollars. Now it's unlimited voice and text for a few dollars and the data is expensive.
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-09-2015 07:28 PM
  25. Penny_1's Avatar
    That's because it doesn't really matter what it costs to the carrier, it matters what customers are using most. That's the most billable item to them.

    I can't imagine what the next most "billable" item will be in the wireless industry. Probably not voice and text again. Data for the foreseeable future. Maybe on the fly hardware upgrades after that? Modularity of phones and experiences that will drive users to want many different components and accessories? Something that can be made into a subscription, ideally.
    10-09-2015 07:45 PM
1,084 ... 1112131415 ...

Similar Threads

  1. 950/950XL - QI charging...1.0 or 1.2 ?
    By DavidinCT in forum Microsoft Lumia 950 XL
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-26-2016, 06:43 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-05-2015, 04:19 AM
  3. Day time while running/exercising on Band 2
    By smatofu in forum Microsoft Band & Band 2
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-09-2015, 09:07 AM
  4. Will we be able to preorder online at MS Store?
    By jlangner in forum Microsoft Lumia 950
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-08-2015, 09:41 PM
  5. Why won't my computer wake from sleep mode after installing Windows 10?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Windows 10
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-06-2015, 08:16 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD