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12-02-2015 10:33 PM
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  1. dksf42's Avatar
    It anyone else but me tired of reading about "low market share"??? There are MILLIONS of Windows Phone users IN the US MARKET! I am a "person", living in these great United States of America and I refuse to be lumped into the "only 3.5%"! So, what exactly is the US Windows Phone USERS population in the US? Yes, of course Apple and Android will be far greater but, I don't care, as I am a customer of Verizon and I want to "join a revolution of users to get my voice heard on Verizon"!!!

    Does anyone here know the following:
    1) Total estimate of smartphones in the US?
    2) Total number of Windows Phones in the US market (to date)?
    3) Total number of Verizon smartphones?
    4) Estimated total number of Windows Phones on Verizon?

    United we stand, divided we fall = let's TRY to create some MORE NOISE to "convince Microsoft to UNLOCK Band 13 and CDMA" - OR - FORCE Microsoft and Verizon to "officially says" the truth!

    Perhaps, MOST IMPORTANTLY, I am a business user and "what the heck are Enterprise users in this BYOD world" going to "miss" with all of the NEW Work productivity features that the 950XL contains ... but, are ON VERIZON???
    libra89 likes this.
    10-12-2015 10:34 AM
  2. Lucas P's Avatar
    I spoke with one over chat also, and she said that it would work on their network. I even asked specifically about whether it would work over 3G in areas without LTE, and she said yes. So still conflicting info from big red.
    10-12-2015 10:38 AM
  3. MikeSo's Avatar
    I spoke with one over chat also, and she said that it would work on their network. I even asked specifically about whether it would work over 3G in areas without LTE, and she said yes. So still conflicting info from big red.
    They simply don't know. Any answer you get is either a lie or a guess.

    This goes for any CSR for any company, by the way, so not singling out Verizon. CSR info is completely useless unless you can verify it like 10 times and get the same answer. I requested a PIN for my credit card the other day, and asked repeatedly if that PIN would make it possible for me to use it in stores without having to use a signature. I asked clearly and got confirmation several times from the CSR. I get the card and the letter points out that the card is ONLY for cash advances at an ATM. CSRs know NOTHING (at least not any more than you and I can learn from a Bing search).
    10-12-2015 10:51 AM
  4. dksf42's Avatar
    I'll throw down the gauntlet to Microsoft and Verizon = ONCE Microsoft can show "1 MILLION pre-orders" then Verizon WILL change their minds!

    AND ... I do NOT mean 1 MILLION "consumers" ... I mean 1 MILLION "Enterprise direct purchase or BYOD influenced" Enterprise users!

    I DO BELIEVE that the 950XL "contains ALL of Band 13 and CDMA" which is currently "disabled in firmware"!

    Otherwise, WHY would Microsoft be selling "UNLOCKED dual sim versions" in their US stores?
    10-12-2015 11:14 AM
  5. tearfalls's Avatar
    Went to a Microsoft store during the weekend and tried to insert my Verizon sim card into the dual sim 950xl. None of the slots works for me. No signals at all.
    MikeSo and 920Walker like this.
    10-12-2015 11:48 AM
  6. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    I'll throw down the gauntlet to Microsoft and Verizon = ONCE Microsoft can show "1 MILLION pre-orders" then Verizon WILL change their minds!

    AND ... I do NOT mean 1 MILLION "consumers" ... I mean 1 MILLION "Enterprise direct purchase or BYOD influenced" Enterprise users!

    I DO BELIEVE that the 950XL "contains ALL of Band 13 and CDMA" which is currently "disabled in firmware"!

    Otherwise, WHY would Microsoft be selling "UNLOCKED dual sim versions" in their US stores?
    If what you say is true then that is putting the needs of the consumer on the back burner in lieu of a argument with a provider and that's not good.. If those bands are there but locked by firmware then the phone is not truly unlocked either.. Still not good...
    10-12-2015 11:54 AM
  7. Jeemo's Avatar
    Went to a Microsoft store during the weekend and tried to insert my Verizon sim card into the dual sim 950xl. None of the slots works for me. No signals at all.
    I imagine the display units in the stores are neutered.
    10-12-2015 11:59 AM
  8. dksf42's Avatar
    If what you say is true then that is putting the needs of the consumer on the back burner in lieu of a argument with a provider and that's not good.. If those bands are there but locked by firmware then the phone is not truly unlocked either.. Still not good...
    Well, what I am saying is that Microsoft - per the Paul Thurrott post - says that Microsoft has "said they can NOT WIN" in the "current smartphone market" against Apple and Android and is "narrowing their focus"!

    I am a business user on Verizon! I just happen to also use my Lumia Icon for "personal as well"!

    They did NOT say they are "abandoning the Enterprise and Business" market for smartphones = BYOD is still a key focus!
    10-12-2015 12:01 PM
  9. 920Walker's Avatar
    I imagine the display units in the stores are neutered.
    It appears all versions for sale in the US may be neutered, or wearing iron chastity belts.
    10-12-2015 12:03 PM
  10. Ben Schmidt1's Avatar
    Hi, my name is Jan S. Thank you for contacting Microsoft Mobile Device Support. How may I help you?
    9:59 am
    Hi jan, my name's ben... so there's been a lot of debate going on regarding whether or not the 950 and 950 xl will work on verizon since it doesn't list cdma on its band/antenna list
    10:00 am
    i currently have verizon and am interested in buying the 950, will it work on verizon?
    10:00 am
    Let me check on that. Before we proceed, am I speaking with Ben Schmidt?
    10:01 am
    yes you are
    10:01 am
    Hello, Ben.
    10:02 am
    Thanks for your interest for Microsoft Mobile Device.
    10:02 am
    With regard to your concern, I would like to inform you that we are still unable to provide any information on what retailer or network operator will this be available since this is on their own discretion. It is best timely checking our website for the released of Lumia 950 and 950 XL will be announced without further notice.
    10:04 am
    I seek for you understanding.
    10:04 am

    Anyway, I replied that I understood, and any other questions I asked regarding the unlocked version of the phone simply went in circles about waiting for more information.
    10-12-2015 12:08 PM
  11. Jeemo's Avatar
    Just to be concise about a few things:

    The 950xl physically supports Verizon, but has been programmed not to either at the discretion of Microsoft or Verizon (currently unknown). It IS possible for already-manufactured units to be updated to function on Verizon, assuming cooperation.

    CDMA is NOT outdated technology! CDMA and GSM both have their own pros and cons! The ONLY reason GSM became the global standard is because the CDMA standard which is/was used in cellular devices is controlled by Qualcomm, which prevented other manufacturers from building devices. Just because more people are using it, that doesn't mean it is better; like iPhones.
    11B1P likes this.
    10-12-2015 12:17 PM
  12. GreenScrew's Avatar
    Someone should make a sticky, the 950XL will NOT work on Verizon. Every 2-3 pages here we get someone posting the bands of the 735 to compare to the 950XL and missing the CDMA bands on the 735.

    The 950XL DOES NOT HAVE THE BANDS for Verizon, Period, it will not work, Close thread and create a sticky on this.
    Can't you see the point that despite not being the full specs, if the easily found specs are matching between the 735 and the 950/950xl it makes an argument that the published specs might not be inclusive as is the case with the 735? Maybe you have some insider information that you're not sharing but as far as I know all the arguments that the 950/950xl doesn't have CDMA support are simply based on specs published by Microsoft. So the specs published by MS for the 735 is relevant. Yes, there is apparently another list of specs for the 735 if you look long and hard enough. The 950/950xl are not even physically available yet so its hard to simply discount the possibility for specs to change and I assume your "period - it will not work" is nothing more than conjecture unworthy of a story ending period.

    In fact, most sources indicate the chipset supports CDMA so a simple firmware update is all it would take. Is that incorrect? A specs page is pretty easy to update, although perhaps as with the 735, not worth the effort?
    10-12-2015 12:17 PM
  13. MikeSo's Avatar
    So the specs published by MS for the 735 is relevant. Yes, there is apparently another list of specs for the 735 if you look long and hard enough.
    No, that's not if you "look long and hard enough". Those are the specs you get if you go to Microsoft's site and look at them. They are the official 735 specs published by Microsoft. You already saw the link.

    The same site, using the same search method, gives the 950XL specs, without the CDMA.

    That's all we have to go by.
    10-12-2015 12:22 PM
  14. feereless's Avatar
    what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

    unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.
    10-12-2015 12:28 PM
  15. oldpueblo's Avatar
    The Icon never had DTTW. So it never got removed.

    The Icon had Denim before anything on AT&T.

    AT&T neutered their 1520, still hasn't updated their 830 to support the latest Lumia camera features iirc.

    How does it make sense to narrow your customer base that you're trying to grow by taking the extra effort to cut some of them out?
    Look my post wasn't a my carrier is better than your carrier argument, it was simply showing the Verizon precedent for not caring about WP users. Every Lumia 930 in the world (as far as I know) has double tap to wake, except the Icon, Verizon's special order 930. Let's not quibble over semantics of it being a different phone than the 930, etc.

    Yes AT&T made a dumb call on the 1520, but they at least offered the 1520. And they didn't double-down on the PMA mistake, they rectified it with the 830 by leaving everything in tact (in fact they added PMA on top of QI) and even offered a 32GB version of the 1520 later. Yes the 830 doesn't have official denim yet, but there are alternate ways to get this (just updated my wife;s) and you could always buy an unlocked 830 if you chose. See on AT&T's network we have choice, I myself imported a 930 to use. On Verizon, you get...no...choice. That's the difference, so Verizon should be working harder to provide Verizon users with as much choice as possible device-wise.

    Let's talk about narrowing your customer base. Verizon right now has 23 android devices available on their website, many of which we all know are ****. And three windows phones, two which are basically new releases but are budget devices. The flagship device is not the one preferred by most of it's windows phone customers (the Icon), and it's over a year old. Verizon has total control over whether or not they want to play ball with a part of their userbase. They don't care about WP, it has nothing to do with MS at all. You say MS went through some extra effort to cut out Verizon, well I have yet to see any actual proof of this. It's easy to just say MS disabled the bands to be petty, but what we have no proof of is whether or not they were forced to do so because Verizon wouldn't certify the phones due to their demands, etc. Remember how long it took the iPhone to get to Verizon? That was all Verizon, not Apple. So until we have actual definitive proof, let's just make the safe assumption that Verizon **** on us again. It's kind of their thing. :)
    libra89 likes this.
    10-12-2015 12:31 PM
  16. oldpueblo's Avatar
    what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

    unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.
    It may work technically, but not realistically. Will it support Verizon's visual voice mail, hotspot, other Verizon features? Verizon want's total control, they install backup software and all sorts of Verizon tools. People bring up the Nexus 6 as an example of an unlocked phone working on Verizon, but last I heard Verizon actually sell the Nexus 6 on their own, so it makes sense that the Nexus 6 would work unlocked because it's already in the system. But an unlocked phone they know nothing about that isn't in their system? CDMA carriers have more back-end certification than just pop in a SIM. It's entirely possible that it went this way:

    MS: We want you to carry the phone.
    VZ: Sure, first let us modify the **** out of it.
    MS: Nope sorry.
    VZ: Okay then, no deal!
    MS: Welp.

    Maybe they disable bands to stave off customer support issues, there are band license issues, who knows? But if it's bought unlocked from MS and it won't work on Verizon, people won't be going to Verizon angry they'll be returning them to the MS store and yelling at MS. More than anything said in this thread, this is the scenario that makes the most sense and fits the relationship Verizon has had with MS in the past. It also jives with what MS said recently about carrier support/starting fresh on solid ground. Until I see proof, that's what it looks like to me.
    Last edited by oldpueblo; 10-12-2015 at 12:50 PM.
    10-12-2015 12:38 PM
  17. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

    unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.
    Bingo!
    I'm on straight talk Verizon LTE anyhow.. That's the upgrade path I intended, buy straight from a MS store.. Lol.. Just unlock the bands and slide my sim in from my icon, Hehe..
    10-12-2015 12:43 PM
  18. feereless's Avatar
    It may work technically, but not realistically. Will it support Verizon's visual voice mail, hotspot, other Verizon features? Verizon want's total control, they install backup software and all sorts of Verizon tools. People bring up the Nexus 6 as an example of an unlocked phone working on Verizon, but last I heard Verizon actually sell the Nexus 6 on their own, so it makes sense that that phone would work unlocked since they're already prepared for it. But an unlocked phone they know nothing about that isn't in their system? CDMA carriers have more back-end certification than just pop in a SIM. It's entirely possible that it went this way:

    MS: We want you to carry the phone.
    VZ: Sure, first let us modify the **** out of it.
    MS: Nope sorry.
    VZ: Okay then, no deal!
    MS: Welp.

    Maybe they disable bands to stave of customer support issues, there are band license issues, who knows? But if it's bought unlocked from MS and it won't work on Verizon, people won't be going to Verizon angry they'll be returning them to the MS store and yelling at MS. More than anything said in this thread, this is the scenario that makes the most sense and fits the relationship Verizon has had with MS in the past. Until I see proof, that's what it looks like to me.
    The SD 808/810 by default have the cdma capability. any unlocked phone will work. same exact internals as the new nexus. visual vm, hotspot, all that jazz is by line, not device. as long as they are enabled on that line, they will work. those features have nothing to do with the device.
    10-12-2015 12:49 PM
  19. Ben Schmidt1's Avatar
    Would a jailbreak be possible to unlock the bands? I'm not 100% familiar with how that'll work.
    10-12-2015 12:58 PM
  20. feereless's Avatar
    Would a jailbreak be possible to unlock the bands? I'm not 100% familiar with how that'll work.
    idk, msft is pretty good about keeping them on lockdown... only few htc phones have been able to be jailbroken.. so i highly doubt a msft branded one will be able to be jailbroken.
    10-12-2015 01:01 PM
  21. TK2011's Avatar
    Well, what I am saying is that Microsoft - per the Paul Thurrott post - says that Microsoft has "said they can NOT WIN" in the "current smartphone market" against Apple and Android and is "narrowing their focus"!

    I am a business user on Verizon! I just happen to also use my Lumia Icon for "personal as well"!

    They did NOT say they are "abandoning the Enterprise and Business" market for smartphones = BYOD is still a key focus!
    Don't listen to Thurrott. He talks like he knows insider information but he really doesn't. He's been wrong with "scoops" so many times in the past.
    10-12-2015 01:01 PM
  22. oldpueblo's Avatar
    The SD 808/810 by default have the cdma capability. any unlocked phone will work. same exact internals as the new nexus. visual vm, hotspot, all that jazz is by line, not device. as long as they are enabled on that line, they will work. those features have nothing to do with the device.
    Counter-point, take an unlocked Verizon windows phone that is also sold on another GSM carrier (the HTC 8X for example and my experience) and try to get all the features like MMS working. You generally can't, Verizon locks that to only work on their service. Same chipset right? This is the kind of carrier we're talking about.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-12-2015 01:06 PM
  23. MikeSo's Avatar
    by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network.
    Which law is this? Sources, please. I have never heard of this before this thread.
    10-12-2015 01:07 PM
  24. TK2011's Avatar
    what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

    unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.
    I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Are you sure there's such law for CDMA? And how about those reports that "unblessed" phones from outside don't work very well on Verizon perhaps because Verizon don't like them?
    10-12-2015 01:07 PM
  25. MikeSo's Avatar
    The Icon had Denim before anything on AT&T.
    The important delay with the Icon was actually Cyan, which it received way after everyone else in pretty much the world. It was Cyan that enabled Bluetooth LE and the Lumia Motion sensor, which I personally use every day. Denim was more of an incremental upgrade, compared to Cyan.
    10-12-2015 01:11 PM
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