12-02-2015 11:33 PM
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  1. NOLATechy's Avatar
    I won't sign your petition because your petition is placing blame on the wrong entity. It is NOT Microsoft's fault that Verizon won't receive the Lumia 950 or 950XL, it is Verizon's fault. Microsoft's biggest promotion for Windows 10 sales is the "constant upgrading of the Windows 10 ecosystem for all devices." You can't very well have that experience if Verizon won't let Microsoft update the phones. This is where the disagreement lies between Verizon and Microsoft, and I can't say I blame Microsoft because Verizon doesn't seem to have a problem with Apple being able to control the updates to it's iPhones. Since Microsoft now makes the Lumia line (just like Apple makes the iPhones), there is no reason why Microsoft shouldn't receive the same update/upgrade treatment that Apple receives.

    So, my suggestion is that you start a petition to force Verizon to allow Microsoft the same update/upgrade treatment that Apple receives and demand Verizon allow Microsoft to sell the Lumia 950/950XL on their network. That petition, I would sign in a heartbeat!
    toph36 likes this.
    10-14-2015 07:29 AM
  2. Eric Chew's Avatar
    Actually, it sorta is Microsoft's fault. They admitted to it. They're "choosing the carriers that want to work WITH them". Verizon has a long history of not working with Microsoft going way back to the early days of Windows Mobile (WinCE version).
    10-14-2015 08:49 AM
  3. NOLATechy's Avatar
    Verizon demands control over Microsoft's new Windows 10 phones while not placing this same strict control over Apple's iPhone. So you blame Microsoft for not wanting to cave to the stupid demands that Verizon is unfairly projecting upon Microsoft? I guess it's the old lady's fault for allowing the burgler to snatch her purse huh? Really?!? This is NOT Microsoft's fault, the blame belongs squarely on the perpetrator of injustice - Verizon! I am a Verizon customer, but won't be if I can't get the phone I WANT on their network. I'm not loyal to a carrier, I'm loyal to the Lumia line. I had an iPhone, I had two Android devices, but I choose the Lumia 950XL. If Verizon won't give it to me, I'll go with the carrier that will!
    mdefran65 likes this.
    10-14-2015 09:30 AM
  4. primortal's Avatar
    This is what perplexes me... If Microsoft doesn't want to deal with Verizon's idiotic demands fine, then just sell the phones unlocked. Can Verizon stop those unlocked devices from connecting to their network if all the proper pieces are in place on the device?
    aximtreo likes this.
    10-14-2015 09:37 AM
  5. libra89's Avatar
    This is what perplexes me... If Microsoft doesn't want to deal with Verizon's idiotic demands fine, then just sell the phones unlocked. Can Verizon stop those unlocked devices from connecting to their network if all the proper pieces are in place on the device?
    From my understanding and also from what others have explained earlier in the thread, they still can, because they have to be able to recognize the device.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-14-2015 09:41 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    This is what perplexes me... If Microsoft doesn't want to deal with Verizon's idiotic demands fine, then just sell the phones unlocked. Can Verizon stop those unlocked devices from connecting to their network if all the proper pieces are in place on the device?
    Yes. They can.

    If Verizon wanted to play hardball, they might have told MS that they would not allow any WM device to be activated on or connect to their network, even if the device was fully compatible with Verizon's cellular service. I'm not saying that's what happened. I have no idea what did or didn't happen. At least technically, Verizon does have that capability however.
    libra89, aximtreo and primortal like this.
    10-14-2015 09:48 AM
  7. Eric Chew's Avatar
    Verizon demands control over Microsoft's new Windows 10 phones while not placing this same strict control over Apple's iPhone. So you blame Microsoft for not wanting to cave to the stupid demands that Verizon is unfairly projecting upon Microsoft? I guess it's the old lady's fault for allowing the burgler to snatch her purse huh? Really?!? This is NOT Microsoft's fault, the blame belongs squarely on the perpetrator of injustice - Verizon! I am a Verizon customer, but won't be if I can't get the phone I WANT on their network. I'm not loyal to a carrier, I'm loyal to the Lumia line. I had an iPhone, I had two Android devices, but I choose the Lumia 950XL. If Verizon won't give it to me, I'll go with the carrier that will!
    Yes, Microsoft is to blame for disabling the radio. I'm in the same boat as you, and yes I'm pissed about this. My response to Verizon doing what they do is switching to AT&T. Simple.
    toph36 likes this.
    10-14-2015 09:52 AM
  8. Eric Chew's Avatar
    Yes. They can.

    If Verizon wanted to play hardball, they might have told MS that they would not allow any WM device to be activated on or connect to their network, even if the device was fully compatible with Verizon's cellular service. I'm not saying that's what happened. I have no idea what did or didn't happen. At least technically, Verizon does have that capability however.
    Actually, no they can't - by law. As part of spectrum buy-up, they need to allow any device that supports their technology to work on their service. If they refuse, you can report it to the FCC.
    10-14-2015 09:56 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Actually, no they can't - by law. As part of spectrum buy-up, they need to allow any device that supports their technology to work on their service. If they refuse, you can report it to the FCC.
    I was speaking only from a technical perspective, and from a technical perspective, they can.

    I'm not familiar with U.S. laws on this particular subject, but if they are as you say they are, then those laws at least aren't being enforced:

    https://www.google.ch/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...efuse+activate
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-14-2015 10:05 AM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    Actually, it sorta is Microsoft's fault. They admitted to it. They're "choosing the carriers that want to work WITH them". Verizon has a long history of not working with Microsoft going way back to the early days of Windows Mobile (WinCE version).
    And they made this choice based on how certain carriers have treated WP in the past, and due to Verizon's shoddy treatment of the platform they have rightfully been shut out. Case closed.
    MikeSo and DavidinCT like this.
    10-14-2015 10:15 AM
  11. djarchow's Avatar

    PS Dear Satya Nadella = FIX THIS and give us MILLIONS of "Verizon USERS" the 950XL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Just to add some perspective, there are not millions of Windows Phone users on Verizon. WP has about 5.7 million users in the US (April ComScore numbers). Verizon has about 12 percent of those users which means about 700,000 users. Also since in the US about 43% of phone sales are high end phones, you really are talking about 300k potential customers. Given how poorly high end Windows phones have historically done on Verizon the number is probably quite a bit smaller than that.

    I really want one of these phones myself but it looks like I will have to hang onto my Icon for a while yet.
    aximtreo and MikeSo like this.
    10-14-2015 10:30 AM
  12. jcar302's Avatar
    I'd be curious as to how many people that use Verizon are only under the illusion that Verizon is better than AT&T based on past signal strength, not present.
    I hear it all the time by me "you gotta have Verizon it's better". Totally false in my area, even Tmobile has stepped up quite a bit. I have ATT and I can't even remember the last time I dropped a call that wasn't in a basement (I travel around the state for work).

    I'm sure there are plenty of people that really can't goto ATT because of coverage, but i'll bet there are also quite a few that could go and are either uneducated about what works for them, just don't like change or it's just too much financially on a family plan to justify the hassle.

    I don't have any loyalty to ATT or Verizon for their service, but I do like that ATT does get the good phones and that I can just pull the sim at any time and insert it in another phone.

    If there is a 30 day trial, what would be the harm of starting a new account with a new number temporarily and see how it works for a month? You can always just shut it off and return the phone.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-14-2015 10:47 AM
  13. KCandSunshine13's Avatar
    I get my phone through my job. It is on the Verizon network; one of those old unlimited plans. I use a Lumia 928. My wife has an iPhone on AT&T. She has difficulty getting signal at her desk while I do not (we work for the same company). In addition, we have a 2nd home on the coast of NC. I get more bars on my 928 than she gets on her iPhone while there. As they say in the real estate biz: "Location. Location. Location."
    10-14-2015 11:06 AM
  14. mdefran65's Avatar
    I'm most definitely going to ATT. I've been a Verizon customer for 16 years and I'm jumping if they do not carry the 950XL.
    10-14-2015 11:07 AM
  15. garak0410's Avatar
    I really want one of these phones myself but it looks like I will have to hang onto my Icon for a while yet.
    Agreed...holding on to mine too and I have a new. spare in a box too just in case. The phone is still quite good, camera still near the top of phone cameras...if we can get W10 to not drain the battery down so fast, I'd be happier with the ICON for a longer term.
    10-14-2015 11:11 AM
  16. to_be_announced's Avatar
    I don't have any loyalty to ATT or Verizon for their service, but I do like that ATT does get the good phones and that I can just pull the sim at any time and insert it in another phone.
    I've done this on Verizon multiple times. Pulled my sim out of my old phone and put in a different phone I bought off of Ebay on multiple occasions.
    10-14-2015 11:17 AM
  17. objectiveD's Avatar
    Just to add some perspective, there are not millions of Windows Phone users on Verizon. WP has about 5.7 million users in the US (April ComScore numbers). Verizon has about 12 percent of those users which means about 700,000 users. Also since in the US about 43% of phone sales are high end phones, you really are talking about 300k potential customers. Given how poorly high end Windows phones have historically done on Verizon the number is probably quite a bit smaller than that.

    I really want one of these phones myself but it looks like I will have to hang onto my Icon for a while yet.
    10-14-2015 11:32 AM
  18. NOLATechy's Avatar
    That might be because you are comparing Apples (no pun intended) to oranges. I have a Windows Phone and my roommate has an iPhone. We are both on Verizon wireless and in our house I always have 5 bars on my Windows phone, yet my roommate only gets 3 or 4 bars on the iPhone most of the time. Perhaps the difference isn't the network, but the radios in the devices. Microsoft pays a great deal of attention to their antennas, as stated in the Windows 10 event in New York, unlike Apple (remember antenna-gate?).
    oldpueblo and aximtreo like this.
    10-14-2015 11:44 AM
  19. objectiveD's Avatar
    How many of the 300,000 VZW Windows Phones are in household plans like mine? When I walk my household plan from VZW over to ATT to get my 950, along with it will come three iPhones that belong to other family members in my plan.

    As I understand the way Apple contracts its unit sales to the carriers, the carriers have to guaranty a minimum number of handsets purchases from Apple with whatever arrangements the carrier and Apple negotiate for that minimum guaranty (i.e. marketing cost sharing, price discounts, etc.). Thus the pressure of the carriers to push iPhone sales wherever they can. I am sure ATT will gladly take on four new customers because they could work it out with MS to provide the updated flagship at its release. I could see that 300,000 subscriber number being quite a bit larger if all the loyal VZW WP subscribers express there feelings in the same manner. My guess is that phone tradeins/resale will more than offset my breakup costs with VZW.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-14-2015 11:48 AM
  20. maevinj's Avatar
    That might be because you are comparing Apples (no pun intended) to oranges. I have a Windows Phone and my roommate has an iPhone. We are both on Verizon wireless and in our house I always have 5 bars on my Windows phone, yet my roommate only gets 3 or 4 bars on the iPhone most of the time. Perhaps the difference isn't the network, but the radios in the devices. Microsoft pays a great deal of attention to their antennas, as stated in the Windows 10 event in New York, unlike Apple (remember antenna-gate?).
    This. I just sold my iPhone 6+ and reverted back to my 928. I get better coverage on the 928. Which makes me feel like a fool for complaining about Verizon's coverage in my area going down the drain..
    10-14-2015 11:50 AM
  21. MikeSo's Avatar
    Actually, no they can't - by law. As part of spectrum buy-up, they need to allow any device that supports their technology to work on their service. If they refuse, you can report it to the FCC.
    Please stop this nonsense. Verizon can shut out any phone they like. Why do you and others keep blindly repeating these lies?
    And yes, I would not call it "lies" if we hadn't already had this debate (I think in this very thread!). We looked at the law. It says nothing about this. So at this point it's better to call it lies than just misinformation, since this seems to be deliberate.

    And If I'm wrong, I'd be happily proven wrong and take that back. Please, any sources for this?
    a5cent likes this.
    10-14-2015 12:00 PM
  22. Generalheed's Avatar
    I believe Microsoft is to blame for this actually. They did specifically say that carrier exclusivity was their idea. T-mobile's CEO even said Microsoft didn't bother reaching out to them. I think if Microsoft did reach out to Verizon, they could've come to an agreement.
    10-14-2015 12:01 PM
  23. sprtfan's Avatar
    Please stop this nonsense. Verizon can shut out any phone they like. Why do you and others keep blindly repeating these lies?
    And yes, I would not call it "lies" if we hadn't already had this debate (I think in this very thread!). We looked at the law. It says nothing about this. So at this point it's better to call it lies than just misinformation, since this seems to be deliberate.

    And If I'm wrong, I'd be happily proven wrong and take that back. Please, any sources for this?
    I think there is some confusion on the agreement that went along with the spectrum buy. I'm not 100% sure, but I think as part of the agreement, Verizon has to unlock their own phones to work on other networks. I don't think any part of it says that they have to allow any phone to connect to their own network but a lot of people seem to have that impression. I could be wrong, and as you said, I'd like to see any source that states that Verizon has to allow any phone to connect to their own network.
    10-14-2015 12:21 PM
  24. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    That might be because you are comparing Apples (no pun intended) to oranges. I have a Windows Phone and my roommate has an iPhone. We are both on Verizon wireless and in our house I always have 5 bars on my Windows phone, yet my roommate only gets 3 or 4 bars on the iPhone most of the time. Perhaps the difference isn't the network, but the radios in the devices. Microsoft pays a great deal of attention to their antennas, as stated in the Windows 10 event in New York, unlike Apple (remember antenna-gate?).
    "bars" of coverage don't really tell the story when comparing different phones..especially from different manufacturers. The bars are just a representation of signal strength based on an arbitrary formula that each manufacturer chooses. You have to look at the actual numerical signal strength in dBm from both phones (which might or might not be possible depending on the software running on the phone and the subsequent access to debug info it provides) to actually make a determination of which phone and/or provider is giving the better signal. Not saying your wrong, but you might be "right for the wrong reason".
    primortal, aximtreo and jcar302 like this.
    10-14-2015 12:33 PM
  25. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    How many of the 300,000 VZW Windows Phones are in household plans like mine? When I walk my household plan from VZW over to ATT to get my 950, along with it will come three iPhones that belong to other family members in my plan.
    That's great as far as it goes.

    But it doesn't go far enough. On judgement day, how are you going to explain looking the other way while family members lived in sin?
    Brett Sites likes this.
    10-14-2015 12:57 PM
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