12-02-2015 11:33 PM
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  1. MikeSo's Avatar
    Only problem I see with that is that the 950XL is RM-1116, not RM-1085.
    https://fccid.io/PYAAAA
    https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...C-334865A1.pdf

    One of the 640XL models were referred to as that: PYAAAA.

    The 640 was RM-1063 and the other 640XL was RM-1073.
    So the model number there isn't necessarily an indication of which name the phone is marketed under.

    Though I have yet to see where the phonescoop.com information comes from that the RM-1085 is the 950XL?
    10-16-2015 07:09 PM
  2. falconrap's Avatar
    Thought I would chime in here. First, it's pretty clear too me that Verizon is mostly responsible for this mess. Whether or not the phones were pulled for something related to this...who knows? Doubt it though. Second, Paul Thurott was really good in the past, but he seems more like an old curmudgeon these days. His statement on phones being dead is idiotic and quite wrong. MS isn't going to be going gung ho after the consumer market for now. They are, instead, going to go backdoor. They are going to get big in mobile the same way they did with Windows...Enterprise/Businesses. Get the phones into a lot of people's hands for use in every day business and watch it translate into people buying them for personal use. This is how BB originally became popular with consumers (failing to adapt is what killed them).

    I'm already seeing a step up in the number of bigger named apps hitting Windows 10 and a few hitting mobile as well. Once W10M hits and W10 hits 200 million users, to go with roughly 70-80 million mobile users, its' going to be very difficult to justify not making apps for this OS. You can't ignore a quarter of a billion people. I can see games, more than anything becoming really big on 10. We already have games that Android and IOS don't. I can see a wave of games coming as Universal W10 apps especially if they can be translated to a larger screen.

    Way too much negativity on this site. It's one thing to be PO'd at VZW over this phone mess, but this isn't going to stop W10M from getting out there. MS will likely continue to sell over 8 million phones a quarter for now. That's not chump change in the user base.
    10-16-2015 07:34 PM
  3. snorton224's Avatar
    What I want to know is if wifi calling is going to be enabled on the Lumia 950 at&t.
    Dan Liddiard likes this.
    10-16-2015 07:38 PM
  4. DavidinCT's Avatar
    right, but it's unclear if it was an issue of the SIM slots themselves being disabled or if the phone was not able to connect due to locked out/missing bands. I haven't heard of anyone putting in another SIM (t-mobile or at&t) and having it work in the demo units. So, we're not sure WHY it didn't work. Again, due to the missing FCC docs for RM-1116, I would wager that they are just "dummy" phones for now.
    Well, If the phone is fully unlocked, that means no SIM locks in anyway. But, it could be (as others have said), as Band 13 is disabled and that is the one that Verizon activates on. With that disabled it's possible that it would do nothing.

    Not sure about dummy phones in the store, as there is another thread with someone with it and was a complete phone...but, it was pulled now so who knows...

    What I would LOVE TO SEE, is Microsoft pass the 950 and 950XL through the FCC with Verizon's bands enabled. After passing, then disable them and put out a VERY PUBLIC statement. " We can make these phones compatible with Verizon but, Verizon is blocking us and will not allow us to" and opening a FCC complaint, that forces Verizon to change their policy on this.

    It's not just about the 950...it's about the 970 2-3 years from now (if WP is still around and semi successful)
    Dan Liddiard likes this.
    10-16-2015 08:40 PM
  5. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    https://fccid.io/PYAAAA
    https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...C-334865A1.pdf

    One of the 640XL models were referred to as that: PYAAAA.

    The 640 was RM-1063 and the other 640XL was RM-1073.
    So the model number there isn't necessarily an indication of which name the phone is marketed under.

    Though I have yet to see where the phonescoop.com information comes from that the RM-1085 is the 950XL?
    That's a good find, but it's definitely an aberration. The RM-1085 is PYARM-1085 per the elabel document posted on the FCC site. I saw on another site (through a news aggregator so I don't know specifically which one) that the RM-1116 (950XL dual sim) was certified by Brazil's FCC equivalent ANATEL. That certification doesn't mention any CDMA bands, though I don't know if that's meaningful in Brazil. I'll see if I can dig up any phones known to work on Verizon that were certified in Brazil to compare.

    Certificado de Homologa??o
    10-16-2015 08:42 PM
  6. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    Well, If the phone is fully unlocked, that means no SIM locks in anyway. But, it could be (as others have said), as Band 13 is disabled and that is the one that Verizon activates on. With that disabled it's possible that it would do nothing.

    Not sure about dummy phones in the store, as there is another thread with someone with it and was a complete phone...but, it was pulled now so who knows...

    What I would LOVE TO SEE, is Microsoft pass the 950 and 950XL through the FCC with Verizon's bands enabled. After passing, then disable them and put out a VERY PUBLIC statement. " We can make these phones compatible with Verizon but, Verizon is blocking us and will not allow us to" and opening a FCC complaint, that forces Verizon to change their policy on this.

    It's not just about the 950...it's about the 970 2-3 years from now (if WP is still around and semi successful)
    I meant dummy phone meaning that the SIM slots are completely disabled because they are not legally entitled to be operational at this time. Without seeing the phone work with a T-mobile or AT&T SIM, we don't know for sure if it was a Verizon-specific issue or the demo phone is just not operational for cellular use.
    MikeSo and DavidinCT like this.
    10-16-2015 08:45 PM
  7. Groover1971's Avatar
    We have three phones on Verizon (Icon, 928, 822) and all are great phones. So is the coverage and reliability of Verizon's signal. But we came from Sprint when they stopped supporting Windows Phones. Now we have been seeing the same on Verizon. Also, having a CDMA phone (Sprint & Verizon) greatly limits where you can use them when you want to shop other plans. I'm ready to switch to a GSM phone so at least I can have a choice of plans and coverage (AT&T or T-Mobile). I'm ready for some healthy competition between the carriers instead of the current exclusivity that they keep using to eliminate competition.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-16-2015 10:06 PM
  8. MikeSo's Avatar
    That's a good find, but it's definitely an aberration. The RM-1085 is PYARM-1085 per the elabel document posted on the FCC site. I saw on another site (through a news aggregator so I don't know specifically which one) that the RM-1116 (950XL dual sim) was certified by Brazil's FCC equivalent ANATEL. That certification doesn't mention any CDMA bands, though I don't know if that's meaningful in Brazil. I'll see if I can dig up any phones known to work on Verizon that were certified in Brazil to compare.

    Certificado de Homologa??o
    I am more curious about where phonescoop.com got the information from that the documents they reference are the 950XL. I didn't see anything that connected the two, but I didn't look at every document either.
    10-16-2015 10:29 PM
  9. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    I am more curious about where phonescoop.com got the information from that the documents they reference are the 950XL. I didn't see anything that connected the two, but I didn't look at every document either.
    Earlier this year the RM-1085 was identified as the upcoming "940XL" as it was speculated to be called back then. It's been mostly debunked...but there's been no clear-cut evidence explictly linking the RM-1085 to another device yet and so I guess there are several sites that maintain their own private databases of phone info might still link the RM-1085 id with the 950XL model. We do know that the RM-1085 is FCC ID PYARM-1085, so it doesn't look like model RM-1116 could be that device. That said, there is no "law" that requires model RM-1116 to be FCC ID PYARM-1116 (which is MIA in the FCC docs to date), though it probably will be. The FCC ID *should* be on the sticker inside the phone somewhere if someone gets a chance to snap a pic. Additionally, I did a search on the FCC site for all approvals from Microsoft between May 1 til today, and only 2 phones popped up...the RM-1085 and another device which looks like an old nokia candybar phone.
    10-16-2015 10:53 PM
  10. falconrap's Avatar
    That Brazil FCC listing clearly shows CDMA 800 and 900MHz bands (EDGE) and LTE Band 13 (700MHz). Clearly that version of the hardware is physically capable. Of course, this goes back to the CDMA authentication ******* contest with Verizon, even if the bands were enabled.

    The best thing about all of this is that it keeps the Lumias in the tech press and keeps VZW on the naughty list.
    10-16-2015 11:48 PM
  11. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    That Brazil FCC listing clearly shows CDMA 800 and 900MHz bands (EDGE) and LTE Band 13 (700MHz). Clearly that version of the hardware is physically capable. Of course, this goes back to the CDMA authentication ******* contest with Verizon, even if the bands were enabled.
    .
    Actually, it does neither.

    It lists WCDMA bands...which, as has been clarified a number of times in this thread, is a GSM protocol. EDGE, is of course also a GSM protocol (2G). CDMA and GSM services in the U.S. run over the same frequency range (850 and 1900)...but the test was ONLY done for GSM mode transmissions.

    aixa de Frequncias Tx
    (MHz)
    Potncia Mxima de Sada
    (W)
    Designao de Emisses Tecnologia SAR
    (W/kg)
    Cabea
    SAR
    (W/kg)
    Corpo
    824,0 a 849,0 1,982 200KG7W GSM/GPRS/EDGE 0,231 0,191
    898,5 a 901,0 1,941 200KG7W GSM/GPRS/EDGE 0,365 0,207
    907,5 a 915,0 1,941 200KG7W GSM/GPRS/EDGE 0,365 0,207
    1710,0 a 1785,0 0,991 200KG7W GSM/GPRS/EDGE 0,349 0,106
    1895,0 a 1900,0 1,042 200KG7W GSM/GPRS/EDGE
    0,154 0,063
    824,0 a 849,0 0,294 5M00G7W WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA 0,182 0,174
    898,5 a 901,0 0,297 5M00G7W WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA 0,304 0,206
    907,5 a 915,0 0,297 5M00G7W WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA 0,304 0,206
    1895,0 a 1900,0 0,297 5M00G7W WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA 0,308 0,149
    1920,0 a 1980,0 0,303 5M00G7W WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA 0,209 0,165


    Also, it does not show Band 13. Band 13 has an uplink frequency of 777 787MHz and those are not listed in the certification document. The tested frequencies of 703-748MHz correspond to Band 28.

    703,0 a 748,0
    0,189 3M00G7W/5M00G7W/10M0G7W LTE 0,083 0,087
    703,0 a 748,0 0,189 15M0G7W/20M0G7W LTE 0,083 0,087


    That said, none of that means that the phone is not physically (or even logically/programmatically) capable of either CDMA operations or Band 13 LTE...just the certification process in Brazil did not test those.
    Last edited by TexasLabRat; 10-17-2015 at 12:28 AM.
    DavidinCT and Dan Liddiard like this.
    10-17-2015 12:16 AM
  12. goodsit2's Avatar
    The best thing about all of this is that it keeps the Lumias in the tech press and keeps VZW on the naughty list.
    Ya, but some still think msft at fault as well, and I kind of agree
    http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-sha...verizon-issue/
    10-17-2015 12:25 AM
  13. imnotevenhererightnow's Avatar
    Here's a bit of a head scratcher. Verizon is actually planning to block authentication of the 950/XL on their network: Verizon reported to be blocking network access to Lumia 950 and 950XL
    10-17-2015 12:54 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    Here's a bit of a head scratcher. Verizon is actually planning to block authentication of the 950/XL on their network: Verizon reported to be blocking network access to Lumia 950 and 950XL

    Why is that a head scratcher? That's what most have been saying Verizon will do. It's exactly what Verizon has done (at least initially) with every other unlocked device that was technically compatible with Verizon's network, but not sold or supported by them. This is not specific to WP and it's entirely expected.

    The only unanswered question is why MS appears to have deliberately disabled CDMA on their phones which technically could have connected to Verizon's network.

    Mr McPhisto, a Verizon employee who occasionally posts in these forums, suggested this was possibly how MS intends to protect themselves. It costs less to tell people the devices don't work on Verizon at all, than it costs to suggest the devices are compatible and then have tens of thousands returned because customers could not get Verizon to activate them. No idea if that's the real reason, but it at least makes some sense.

    Maybe the threat of legal action or the courts will eventually force Verizon to certify these devices for use on their network, but until then, it's time for the hopefuls to come back to reality and stop hoping.
    10-17-2015 07:34 AM
  15. luxnws's Avatar
    It is puzzling that unlocked Nexus 5X and 6P will work on all major U.S. carriers including Verizon and Sprint but the Lumia 950 and 950 XL won't (as far as the people on these forums can tell).

    The Nexus gets updates directly from Google so it can't be that VZW wants to load up the phones with crapware as a requirement to support Nexus on its network, right? Do the Nexus phones generate that much more business than Windows Phones for VZW and Sprint that both companies accept the unlocked phones on their networks?
    Dan Liddiard likes this.
    10-17-2015 11:32 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    It is puzzling that unlocked Nexus 5X and 6P will work on all major U.S. carriers including Verizon and Sprint but the Lumia 950 and 950 XL won't (as far as the people on these forums can tell).

    The Nexus gets updates directly from Google so it can't be that VZW wants to load up the phones with crapware as a requirement to support Nexus on its network, right? Do the Nexus phones generate that much more business than Windows Phones for VZW and Sprint that both companies accept the unlocked phones on their networks?
    At the very least, refusing to activate Nexus devices generates a lot more complaints. Nevertheless, a Google search reveals that Verizon has, on many occasions, refused to activate particular Nexus devices on their network:

    https://www.google.ch/search?q=veriz...nexus&ie=&oe=#

    If that's happened to multiple Nexus devices, it shouldn't be puzzling to anybody that it's happening to the L950/XL as well.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-17-2015 at 12:59 PM. Reason: spelling
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-17-2015 11:55 AM
  17. oldpueblo's Avatar
    Not to mention the fact that Verizon sells its own version of the Nexus 6, so it at least has a beachhead.
    10-17-2015 12:07 PM
  18. dksf42's Avatar
    Can anyone shed more light on one posters "great" working estimate of ONLY a total of 700,000 Windows smartphones sold by Verizon? And, an estimated 300,000 "flagship" Windows smartphones?

    Any "contrasting estimates" for ATT?
    10-17-2015 12:28 PM
  19. MiloTheOne's Avatar
    OK ... for all of us "pissed off" at Verizon customers - IF, "the 950XL and 950" are offered "unlocked" does that technically make it work on Verizon in the US market - OR - does "Verizon" still have to "carry it"?

    PLEASE SAY YES !!!
    Listen to the TWIT podcast episode 435 windows say what!? It's about 28 or 29 mins in and they explain the truth behind Verizon secret need of control.
    10-17-2015 01:02 PM
  20. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    Your use of quotes is confusing.
    10-17-2015 01:54 PM
  21. drtek's Avatar
    Verizon is going to block the 950 line.
    10-17-2015 02:22 PM
  22. aximtreo's Avatar
    I stated earlier in this posting that I would not blow up my Verizon Family plan again to get the 950 XL and change to AT&T. It appears that I won't have to. I just spoke with AT&T rep and got a price of $55 per month for unlimited voice and text plus 2 GB of data per month. This is an individual plan and it's quite attractive. I'm luck in that I have access Wi Fi access at home and work so 2 GB should be more than enough.

    For those in the same boat, you might want to take a look at this. This all hinges on Verizon and MS not coming to an agreement that lets customers use the new 950 line on Verizon. I don't think I'll hold my breath until this happens. LOL
    a5cent and libra89 like this.
    10-17-2015 02:59 PM
  23. djarchow's Avatar
    Can anyone shed more light on one posters "great" working estimate of ONLY a total of 700,000 Windows smartphones sold by Verizon? And, an estimated 300,000 "flagship" Windows smartphones?

    Any "contrasting estimates" for ATT?
    That was my post. The numbers are of course an estimate based on a number of sources, all who estimate different numbers. But they should be in the ballpark. So for example, there are about 180,000,000 smart phones in the US. MS has 2.6% of those, so about 4.8 million WP in the US. Ad Duplex monthly stats show about 12.4% of their WP traffic is on Verizon. So now we are down to 600k WP on Verizon. Since high end phones on Verizon have never sold well (the HTC M8 WP sold better than the Icon and still didn't make the top 10 WP in the US) so I guessed maybe half the users might be in the market for a 950 hence 300k.

    Going by Ad Duplex's numbers for AT&T (33%) and making similar assumptions, you are about 800k phones.
    10-17-2015 03:51 PM
  24. chasvs's Avatar
    Never going to happen! Time to start hoping the Surface Phone comes early next year and on Verizon
    10-17-2015 04:30 PM
  25. Sick Freak's Avatar
    What I want to know is if wifi calling is going to be enabled on the Lumia 950 at&t.
    I've seen people say that the 640 works, so I'm hoping the 950 will too.
    10-17-2015 08:48 PM
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