12-02-2015 11:33 PM
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  1. djarchow's Avatar
    I
    I had given up hope of a 950/950 XL on Verizon but was still hoping for something good from another manufacturer. As long as one of the two options happen I'll be happy.
    In one of the articles on the 950, I asked Daniel Rubino about HTC making a high end WP 10 for Verizon and he said that wasn't going to happen.
    10-19-2015 04:47 PM
  2. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar


    Verizon Customer service reps giving accurate information like this ? For me, it's hard to believe but, I hope your right.

    I know you have some inside sources and thanks for the post but, knowing deep of Verizon support of Windows Phone, dont mind me if I question it, even a little...

    Yep and I bet we get the 550....Not the high end models we desire... OR maybe Microsoft disabled CDMA on the 950XL because Verizon had something in the works (949XL ?)....but, why is Paul and Mary Jo, who have some very inside contacts at Microsoft saying the other way around, to quote "Verizon customers should just give up on Windows Phone because it's not going to happen"... and other models that have 1/2 the features of the 950XL, not even remotly interested.

    Not sure if this helps or makes things worse :- /

    It goes beyond VZW customer service reps. I was contacted by Verizon directly after making a stink in a back and forth on Twitter. I was put in touch with a management level VZW person, not straight customer service. And I know they were management because I verified the name with my friend who works as a corporate sales executive for VZW. This was someone that would be in the know.

    As for Paul, he has stated that he was told the 950 and 950XL would be universal unlocked phones that would work on Verizon. He was just told that Microsoft was done with Verizon as a sales partner. He has guessed that problems activating is why Microsoft has blocked the CDMA bands, but he said he was told in July by a fairly high up and reliable Microsoft source that the phones would be available universal unlocked. He also said that MS has no intention of letting anyone buy them FROM Verizon, but that doesn't mean that they can't sell it unlocked. I was told they want to ensure functionality on Verizon before ever selling them to work on the network. They need to be sure Verizon adds the IMEI first and they need manufactured phones to do it. That came from someone in the Lumia team itself.

    I've listened to Paul quite a bit on this and he stated plainly that what he was originally told indicated the phones were built to work on CDMA. Other also informed him that the 808 and 810 have universal radios as it is, so it would have to be firmware blocked (this has been confirmed by ArsTechnica).

    I was told by BOTH Verizon and Microsoft (and also told by someone at ArsTechnica) that Verizon has NO CHOICE but to activate an unlocked phone IF it has been certified by an approved third party tester. Microsoft does not want the CDMA bands unlocked UNTIL that certification happens and Verizon has no choice but to list the 950 and 950XL or face a FCC complaint and possible fine.

    This fits the fact of the FCC deal on LTE Verizon is part of. It also fits as to why Microsoft would not initially roll out CDMA. I don't think it will launch CDMA, but I could see them unlock those bands and sell the phone CDMA unlocked less than a month after launch. If they get it certified by a third party, Verizon has no choice. But why sell the phones and let customers have to wait until Verizon clears it instead of just getting the testing done and letting users know this is coming later.

    I think we'll hear more about this closer to the actual launch date in a month or so.
    10-19-2015 06:32 PM
  3. luxnws's Avatar
    It goes beyond VZW customer service reps. I was contacted by Verizon directly after making a stink in a back and forth on Twitter. I was put in touch with a management level VZW person, not straight customer service. And I know they were management because I verified the name with my friend who works as a corporate sales executive for VZW. This was someone that would be in the know.

    As for Paul, he has stated that he was told the 950 and 950XL would be universal unlocked phones that would work on Verizon. He was just told that Microsoft was done with Verizon as a sales partner. He has guessed that problems activating is why Microsoft has blocked the CDMA bands, but he said he was told in July by a fairly high up and reliable Microsoft source that the phones would be available universal unlocked. He also said that MS has no intention of letting anyone buy them FROM Verizon, but that doesn't mean that they can't sell it unlocked. I was told they want to ensure functionality on Verizon before ever selling them to work on the network. They need to be sure Verizon adds the IMEI first and they need manufactured phones to do it. That came from someone in the Lumia team itself.

    I've listened to Paul quite a bit on this and he stated plainly that what he was originally told indicated the phones were built to work on CDMA. Other also informed him that the 808 and 810 have universal radios as it is, so it would have to be firmware blocked (this has been confirmed by ArsTechnica).

    I was told by BOTH Verizon and Microsoft (and also told by someone at ArsTechnica) that Verizon has NO CHOICE but to activate an unlocked phone IF it has been certified by an approved third party tester. Microsoft does not want the CDMA bands unlocked UNTIL that certification happens and Verizon has no choice but to list the 950 and 950XL or face a FCC complaint and possible fine.

    This fits the fact of the FCC deal on LTE Verizon is part of. It also fits as to why Microsoft would not initially roll out CDMA. I don't think it will launch CDMA, but I could see them unlock those bands and sell the phone CDMA unlocked less than a month after launch. If they get it certified by a third party, Verizon has no choice. But why sell the phones and let customers have to wait until Verizon clears it instead of just getting the testing done and letting users know this is coming later.

    I think we'll hear more about this closer to the actual launch date in a month or so.
    Nice explanation.

    For the tl;dr crowd, the simplest tell come November would be if the unlocked 950/950 XLs worked (or didn't) on Sprint, right?

    That would pretty much determine who is doing the blocking.
    10-19-2015 07:08 PM
  4. RichHowerton's Avatar
    Looks like I am moving my company from Verizon to at&t. 8 lines. c u Verizon.
    10-19-2015 08:41 PM
  5. coolbreeze78's Avatar
    Looks like I am moving my company from Verizon to at&t. 8 lines. c u Verizon.
    Smart move. Don't put your hard-earned money towards a company that demands money from (Microsoft) for "certification." The phone will work fine and Verizon knows it. They are just looking for a payday. Greedy and arrogant √
    TAM28301 and 920Walker like this.
    10-19-2015 10:05 PM
  6. dksf42's Avatar
    Seems like time for a FCC complaint.... IF Verizon actually told Microsoft that they would not activate the 950/XL on their network... Then it's time people.

    Anyway about it, We can all complain here on how much we want the 950 on Verizon but, till Microsoft enables the bands or Verizon publicly states that they will take the phone, Nothing can happen. And complaining to this forum and thread DOES NOTHING besides a little venting (and everyone needs to time to time).

    SO, if you want this to happen, this is what needs to be done.

    1. File a complaint with the FCC, Nothing that it's quoted that "Verizon stated to Microosft that they would not activate the phone on their network"
    2. Call (first call), then tweet, then facebook to Verizon say, get your crap together and get this phone.
    3. Contact Microsoft and let them know, the MORE people who say something, the better the chance a dialog with Verizon can be opened up and this about the ONLY way we can see this happening.

    Anyway about it, in it's current form, the 950 or 950XL will not work on Verizon and the ONLY way to get it to, is to be heard.
    Count us in = anyone here know the BEST way to start a "petition" - I seem to recall one about this time last year to "petition Verizon to adopt Cyan and Denim"? It took a few months, but Joe Belfiore himself actually began to provide feedback and PROMISED that Microsoft was "working hard" to deliver !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WHY wouldn't that work again?

    Anybody game - I can get dozens of signatures!
    DavidinCT and to_be_announced like this.
    10-20-2015 01:22 AM
  7. Generalheed's Avatar
    Count us in = anyone here know the BEST way to start a "petition" - I seem to recall one about this time last year to "petition Verizon to adopt Cyan and Denim"? It took a few months, but Joe Belfiore himself actually began to provide feedback and PROMISED that Microsoft was "working hard" to deliver !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WHY wouldn't that work again?

    Anybody game - I can get dozens of signatures!
    Well I already tried starting a change.org petition which my signature links to. But this is going to be difficult to get a whole phone on Verizon, not just an update. It now appears that Verizon is at fault here for the lack of these phones.
    10-20-2015 08:36 AM
  8. DavidinCT's Avatar
    <snip>

    I think we'll hear more about this closer to the actual launch date in a month or so.
    Sounds like good news if it's all true, from what I got from Paul from his few podcasts he was in, Verizon customers should just forget these flagship phones (refering to the 950XL only, dont care about a LG, or HTC model that could be coming down the pipe).

    It's nice to see a different view from just a complaining fest or "Stick it Verizon" type of thing with some possable meat on it. Of course always maybes but, far better than guesses.

    I do hope your right, I just wish we could get some solid leaks on this, WIndows 10 Phone is going to be released in like a month and we dont even have a solid rumor from Verizon... besides some ticked off customers (This is the Norm with Verizon tho)

    The ICON is a great phone, no question but, I am looking forward to a REAL flagship on Verizon and the 950XL hits everything I want in a flagship phone. I even have a High end 64gb MicroSD card waiting for a COOL phone :)

    Well I already tried starting a change.org petition which my signature links to. But this is going to be difficult to get a whole phone on Verizon, not just an update. It now appears that Verizon is at fault here for the lack of these phones.
    Link ?

    BTW, if you have been reading the last page and 1/2 of this thread, it's appearing to be BOTH at fault here. Not just Verizon, or Not Just Microsoft but, it's sounding like Microsoft is the bigger issue with this right now.
    10-20-2015 09:30 AM
  9. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Well I already tried starting a change.org petition which my signature links to.
    Looks like signatures have been disabled here, if you want us to click a link, put it in the text.
    10-20-2015 09:57 AM
  10. dkediger's Avatar
    BTW, if you have been reading the last page and 1/2 of this thread, it's appearing to be BOTH at fault here. Not just Verizon, or Not Just Microsoft but, it's sounding like Microsoft is the bigger issue with this right now.
    Yeah - I don't know why Microsoft is carrying Verizon's water here. If they do intend to CDMA certify, they could clear all this up with a simple statement in 5 minutes to that effect and deflect all the heat to Verizon. They don't even have to explicitly "blame" Verizon - just state that they will be pursuing CDMA certification. That's all Microsoft really has to say to ease the angst and change the perception.

    I doubt, given the descriptions of the toxic relationship, that there's any future near term (read: "Surface" Phone) deal to nurture and protect. Sell certified CDMA unlocked phones and let the market and consumers truly work and take it from there.

    Microsoft has built a *lot* of goodwill over the last year or so. This would fit right in - fighting the good fight and standing their ground for their fans on Verizon. They would be on the right side of the law and we as Verizon customers have the right to expect such fair treatment. I'm sure there would be more than few outside parties cheering them on as well....
    Last edited by dkediger; 10-20-2015 at 10:21 AM.
    10-20-2015 10:08 AM
  11. 920Walker's Avatar
    If the phone gets 3rd party certified and added to VZW's list of approved phones can VZW block updates being pushed by MS without going against their FCC unlocked phone agreement?
    10-20-2015 10:13 AM
  12. mdefran65's Avatar
    I'm in post the link dude
    10-20-2015 12:04 PM
  13. luxnws's Avatar
    Yeah - I don't know why Microsoft is carrying Verizon's water here. If they do intend to CDMA certify, they could clear all this up with a simple statement in 5 minutes to that effect and deflect all the heat to Verizon. They don't even have to explicitly "blame" Verizon - just state that they will be pursuing CDMA certification. That's all Microsoft really has to say to ease the angst and change the perception.

    I doubt, given the descriptions of the toxic relationship, that there's any future near term (read: "Surface" Phone) deal to nurture and protect. Sell certified CDMA unlocked phones and let the market and consumers truly work and take it from there.

    Microsoft has built a *lot* of goodwill over the last year or so. This would fit right in - fighting the good fight and standing their ground for their fans on Verizon. They would be on the right side of the law and we as Verizon customers have the right to expect such fair treatment. I'm sure there would be more than few outside parties cheering them on as well....
    That might help change the perception. Although it would mean Microsoft would have to follow through and get the phones certified.

    How Google could get unlocked Nexus 5X's and 6P's on all the major carriers, with the expected Android updates direct from Google, but Microsoft getting unlocked 950's and 950 XL's on the same carriers is embroiled in so much controversy, it is just baffling. More than cost must be involved.
    10-20-2015 02:16 PM
  14. littlebib's Avatar
    That might help change the perception. Although it would mean Microsoft would have to follow through and get the phones certified.

    How Google could get unlocked Nexus 5X's and 6P's on all the major carriers, with the expected Android updates direct from Google, but Microsoft getting unlocked 950's and 950 XL's on the same carriers is embroiled in so much controversy, it is just baffling. More than cost must be involved.
    I take this as Microsoft just isn't serious about Windows Mobile. As the underdog, they needed to come out bragging about how they're on ever carrier with premium hardware as well as other major hardware vendors and which networks they're on. Instead, we get 29 pages of confusion by true fans of the product. There's no way a normal consumer would try to follow this or care to. I've pretty much lost faith in Windows Mobile at this point.
    10-20-2015 03:28 PM
  15. to_be_announced's Avatar
    Still holding out hope...........

    Hopefully they get CDMA certified by a third party by release.
    10-20-2015 03:56 PM
  16. Robinsonmac's Avatar
    So the HTC A9 that was just announced in Verizon is a LTE only phone & will be sold unlocked only. The question now is why didn't Microsoft get the same deal as HTC? Is it Verizon or Microsoft.

    HTC One A9: First Phone To Work on Verizon Without CDMA (Phone Scoop)
    10-20-2015 05:28 PM
  17. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    So the HTC A9 that was just announced in Verizon is a LTE only phone & will be sold unlocked only. The question now is why didn't Microsoft get the same deal as HTC? Is it Verizon or Microsoft.

    HTC One A9: First Phone To Work on Verizon Without CDMA (Phone Scoop)
    The article says the phone can NOT be activated on Verizon. It will only work if you take an activated SIM from another phone and plug it into this phone. It also says you can't even do that until some future software update. So HTC is just playing a different game and hoping (or has a behind the scenes deal with Verizon) that Verizon will eventually activate them and WON'T mess with ones that someone moved a working SIM to. I applaud Microsoft for NOT playing some chess game and using customers as pawns.
    10-20-2015 05:50 PM
  18. MikeSo's Avatar
    So the HTC A9 that was just announced in Verizon is a LTE only phone & will be sold unlocked only. The question now is why didn't Microsoft get the same deal as HTC? Is it Verizon or Microsoft.

    HTC One A9: First Phone To Work on Verizon Without CDMA (Phone Scoop)
    "Verizon has separately announced plans to offer an LTE-only phone by the end of this year, but has yet to announce one that it will sell directly. "

    YES! THE 950XL OBVIOUSLY!!
    10-20-2015 06:19 PM
  19. MikeSo's Avatar
    The article says the phone can NOT be activated on Verizon. It will only work if you take an activated SIM from another phone and plug it into this phone. It also says you can't even do that until some future software update. So HTC is just playing a different game and hoping (or has a behind the scenes deal with Verizon) that Verizon will eventually activate them and WON'T mess with ones that someone moved a working SIM to. I applaud Microsoft for NOT playing some chess game and using customers as pawns.
    HTC says previously-activated SIM cards (i.e., those pulled from a working Verizon phone) will have full support to voice, SMS/MMS, and data services via LTE on the One A9. Customers will not be able to activate a new Verizon SIM on the A9, nor can the A9 be activated in Verizon stores.
    So.... let's pick up the speculation that the 950XL can be used in the same manner!
    DavidinCT likes this.
    10-20-2015 06:20 PM
  20. goodsit2's Avatar
    "Verizon has separately announced plans to offer an LTE-only phone by the end of this year, but has yet to announce one that it will sell directly. "

    YES! THE 950XL OBVIOUSLY!!
    That statement likely comes from their announcement in 2014 and was not a recent statement in regards to the 950 or 950XL
    10-20-2015 06:39 PM
  21. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
    If the phone gets 3rd party certified and added to VZW's list of approved phones can VZW block updates being pushed by MS without going against their FCC unlocked phone agreement?
    No, Verizon cannot block updates. They have no control over how an unlocked phone is updated. We already have seen that the Nexus 6 was updated directly by Google, even when on VZW.

    Unlocked is the way Microsoft can turn the phone into just another Windows device. Carrier locking allows them to use the excuse about network stability, etc to discourage updates so they can sell more phones and, in the past, extend contracts.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-20-2015 09:27 PM
  22. dkediger's Avatar
    I see this as kind of an existential moment for Microsoft and W10M. It (CDMA certifying) is something they should do *because* it is the right thing to do for their customers/users. Otherwise, it becomes something others (Apple, Google) have mastered, but Microsoft hasn't/can't /won't. Which let's others control the narrative and make it about lack of desire/clout/dedication.

    It's very much like the DirecTV vs cable commercials in the US: Don't be like that little "m" microsoft - be a big "M" *Microsoft* and CDMA certify. It's a good time and a good cause to spend some the goodwill they've acquired over the last year or so.
    tgp, Laura Knotek and aximtreo like this.
    10-20-2015 10:09 PM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    I see this as kind of an existential moment for Microsoft and W10M. It (CDMA certifying) is something they should do *because* it is the right thing to do for their customers/users. Otherwise, it becomes something others (Apple, Google) have mastered, but Microsoft hasn't/can't /won't.
    I agree. Enable the CDMA, throw the device out there, and see what happens. Let the chips fall where they may.

    The thing is, I'm sure there's more to it than that! Microsoft is certainly making a calculated decision here. Google and Apple proved that Verizon's consent is not necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft's actions have something to do with whatever deal was inked with AT&T.
    Laura Knotek, aximtreo and a5cent like this.
    10-20-2015 10:41 PM
  24. hedrek's Avatar
    Verizon does not subsidize phones anymore. There is no phone lure now to go to Verizon. They better take every phone they can get because Americans are going to be shocked to buy phones straight up. My Verizon contract just ran out and I'm month to month. They no longer have a hold on me. No Windows phones functionality and I'm gone!
    10-21-2015 12:29 AM
  25. hedrek's Avatar
    Avoiding the ugly Verizon logo is reason enough to move to AT&T.
    theefman, libra89 and PepperdotNet like this.
    10-21-2015 12:39 AM
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