12-02-2015 11:33 PM
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  1. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    It will not work on Verizon. Even with an already active sim, the phone can't connect to the network
    Can you say how you acquired a production 950XL to try that?

    I believe people have tried using a Verizon sim in the demo units
    Demo units aren't the same. I could be wrong but I read all threads on these and don't recall anyone posting they put ANY carrier SIM in a demo and making a call. I did read speculation that the demos had disabled SIM slots because they were made before all govt approvals had been obtained.
    11-09-2015 07:44 AM
  2. jas o's Avatar
    That was my understanding. The demos weren't active because they hadn't passed FFC approval at that time.
    11-09-2015 09:07 AM
  3. Generalheed's Avatar
    The only way to know for sure at this point is for someone to get a production unit and try it out. It's true that it won't work on CDMA networks no matter what, but that's not a huge deal really. Even without CDMA, Verizon is fully equipped to support this phone.

    All of Verizon's LTE bands are supported
    Verizon already rolled out VoLTE for calls & sms
    All Verizon plans have free roaming included so you can use AT&T & T-Mobile's networks to fill in whatever gaps may exist due to the lack of CDMA

    The big question is, will Verizon activate it? I think they will because I know they've activated other unlocked phones that they didn't explicitly carry. I've also talked to my local Verizon store manager and he said they'd be happy to activate any unlocked phones. He did however suggest that I make sure I can return the Lumia 950 in the event it doesn't work. Anyways, once the production units are released, we should find out once and for all whether these phones will work on Verizon.
    MikeSo and aximtreo like this.
    11-09-2015 11:32 AM
  4. psurob55's Avatar
    this post ends the thread. It's a pipedream folks. I hope I am wrong, but I wouldn't expect these phones to work on VZW for 6-12 months, if ever.
    Steve Adams likes this.
    11-09-2015 12:47 PM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    Even without CDMA, Verizon is fully equipped to support this phone.
    I've only heard of one GSM phone working on Verizon, and that was a Nexus 5. It does actually have CDMA for Sprint, but not Verizon. It was made to work on Verizon's LTE network. AFAIK they got only data to work. I do not understand that part of mobile hardware, so I cannot say much more.

    Gadgetlife.org - Lollipop Lets The Nexus 5 Use Verizon’s LTE With Ease!
    11-09-2015 01:05 PM
  6. Generalheed's Avatar
    this post ends the thread. It's a pipedream folks. I hope I am wrong, but I wouldn't expect these phones to work on VZW for 6-12 months, if ever.
    They might've just been blocking the pre-production models. Verizon legally can't block phones like that because they have an agreement with the FCC when they recently purchased certain spectrum for their 4G LTE network.
    11-09-2015 01:33 PM
  7. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Right, they are obligated to provide any compatible device access on their 700 MHz spectrum.

    Compatible is key. And only on that spectrum, so far as I know.

    To my knowledge no one has tested this part of the leasing agreement in the courts.
    11-09-2015 03:07 PM
  8. maevinj's Avatar
    Right, they are obligated to provide any compatible device access on their 700 MHz spectrum.

    Compatible is key. And only on that spectrum, so far as I know.

    To my knowledge no one has tested this part of the leasing agreement in the courts.
    I think that's backwards. I think the agreement is that because Verizon owns the 700 MHz spectrum, they cannot sell any locked devices. They have no obligation to allow any device on their network.
    Verizon iPhone 5's must be unlocked! - FCC
    11-09-2015 03:39 PM
  9. RumoredNow's Avatar
    We the People of the United States of America own the spectrum so far as it is used inside our borders. The FCC administrates it on our behalf. They auction use of it to commercial interests. All operators are in effect leasing the right to operate within certain spectrums.

    Part of the conditions for operating in C Block of 700 MHz was that the operator may not block access to compatible devices in that spectrum.

    Specifically, licensees offering service on C Block spectrum "shall not deny, limit, or restrict the ability of their customers to use the devices and applications of their choice on the licensee's C Block network,"

    The post you linked is about not locking the SIM tray, it does not apply here.
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-09-2015 04:03 PM
  10. Generalheed's Avatar
    Right, they are obligated to provide any compatible device access on their 700 MHz spectrum.

    Compatible is key. And only on that spectrum, so far as I know.

    To my knowledge no one has tested this part of the leasing agreement in the courts.
    Well once a device is activated on Verizon's network, it's unlikely at that point that they'll block your access to their other LTE bands and spectrums. So this device, legally, should work on Verizon's network. Even without CDMA, it should work no problem and thanks to Verizon's roaming agreements, AT&T's and T-Mobile's networks should be able to fill in the gaps from the lack of CDMA. I hope...
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-09-2015 06:07 PM
  11. to_be_announced's Avatar
    Don't die thread!!! I'm still sad that the phones won't be on Verizon.

    thread-dont-die-me-thumb.jpg
    RumoredNow, aximtreo and DavidinCT like this.
    11-11-2015 10:20 AM
  12. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Verizon has sought a second opinion on the Windows Phone users found growing on their network...


































































    scary-surgeon.jpg
    HoosierDaddy, aximtreo and libra89 like this.
    11-11-2015 11:45 AM
  13. Generalheed's Avatar
    Well looks like the 950 is going to be released soon. Anyone willing to attempt to be the guinea pig to try to activate a 950 on Verizon's network? Or place an already active SIM card from Verizon in the phone? Right now everything points to these phones theoretically and legally working on Verizon's network.
    11-11-2015 01:19 PM
  14. jas o's Avatar
    Well once a device is activated on Verizon's network, it's unlikely at that point that they'll block your access to their other LTE bands and spectrums. So this device, legally, should work on Verizon's network. Even without CDMA, it should work no problem and thanks to Verizon's roaming agreements, AT&T's and T-Mobile's networks should be able to fill in the gaps from the lack of CDMA. I hope...
    Shouldn't we be able to test this theory now? Does anyone have a Lumia with similar bands that they could try to test see if this will work?
    aximtreo and DavidinCT like this.
    11-11-2015 01:40 PM
  15. to_be_announced's Avatar
    Well looks like the 950 is going to be released soon. Anyone willing to attempt to be the guinea pig to try to activate a 950 on Verizon's network? Or place an already active SIM card from Verizon in the phone? Right now everything points to these phones theoretically and legally working on Verizon's network.
    Actually, that's not true. Without CDMA support, stating that "everything points to these phones theoretically and legally working on Verizon's network" is not true.
    RumoredNow and tgp like this.
    11-11-2015 02:08 PM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    Actually, that's not true. Without CDMA support, stating that "everything points to these phones theoretically and legally working on Verizon's network" is not true.
    I actually wrote something like this, but deleted it before I posted it. It's a tough crowd here! Verizon does not yet support LTE-only devices. Someone got it to work on a Nexus 5, but it was data only. The 950/XL does not work on Verizon (based on what we know about it), even theoretically.
    maevinj likes this.
    11-11-2015 02:27 PM
  17. Generalheed's Avatar
    Shouldn't we be able to test this theory now? Does anyone have a Lumia with similar bands that they could try to test see if this will work?
    Unfortunately I'm not aware of any similar Windows phones with similar bands as the 950. And the only way to know for sure is to directly test it on the 950 because there were reports that Verizon was actively blocking 950's on their network, which would be a breach of their agreement with the FCC if it's true.

    I actually wrote something like this, but deleted it before I posted it. It's a tough crowd here! Verizon does not yet support LTE-only devices. Someone got it to work on a Nexus 5, but it was data only. The 950/XL does not work on Verizon (based on what we know about it), even theoretically.
    I'm not sure when that test was done, but Verizon apparently Verizon only rolled out their VoLTE services somewhat recently, after the Nexus 5 was released. If that test was done before VoLTE was rolled out, then it'd have been data only of course. But Verizon is planning on releasing their first LTE-only phone within the next year or so and within a few more years, they plan to start phasing out their 3G CDMA network, going LTE-only. It's possible they've already begun readying their network for that.
    11-11-2015 06:10 PM
  18. gernerttl's Avatar
    Unfortunately I'm not aware of any similar Windows phones with similar bands as the 950. And the only way to know for sure is to directly test it on the 950 because there were reports that Verizon was actively blocking 950's on their network, which would be a breach of their agreement with the FCC if it's true.
    It's not that they are actively blocking. It is the whole CDMA thing. Based upon the posts I've read in this thread, there are a LOT of people who don't understand how CDMA (or system on a chip (SoC)) works. CDMA requires a key that is controlled by the network provider; in this case Verizon. Verizon provides that key to the chip maker (Qualcomm), who then includes it into the firmware of the SoC. That is then provided to the OEM who incorporates it into the OS/Firmware build. Without that key, and if the CDMA radio is not enabled, the phone will not work on a CDMA network. Which is what Verizon uses for its voice and SMS network.

    Here's a little more info about the SoC being used on the 950 and 950XL.

    The Snap Dragon 810 (950XL) is also on the (gasp)... HTC One M9

    The Snap Dragon 808 (950) is also on the...wait for it... LG G4

    Both the M9 and G4 are on Verizon's network. Why? Because the CDMA radios on those two devices are enabled. By whom you ask? That would be Qualcomm. There are no hardware differences between the 810 on the M9 and the 950XL It isn't cost effective for Qualcomm to make two separate versions of a SoC. In fact doing so defeats the whole purpose of the SoC. All modern SoC's have CDMA, GSM, LTE, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc. built in.

    Qualcomm Snapdragon 810 MSM8994 Specs and Reviews
    RumoredNow and aximtreo like this.
    11-12-2015 12:16 AM
  19. OutlawFirebird's Avatar
    Can you say how you acquired a production 950XL to try that?



    Demo units aren't the same. I could be wrong but I read all threads on these and don't recall anyone posting they put ANY carrier SIM in a demo and making a call. I did read speculation that the demos had disabled SIM slots because they were made before all govt approvals had been obtained.
    The bands for CDMA are not activated in the 950xl
    How many phones use voice over lte on Verizon, That are not Verizon branded phones? don't think theres that many. sorry but this phone isn't going to be any different. I'm not happy with Verizon lack of care for windows either, but this phone is most likely not going to be able to use on Verizon. They rather have 50 Verizon branded androids than support windows.
    11-12-2015 12:42 AM
  20. Generalheed's Avatar
    It's not that they are actively blocking. It is the whole CDMA thing. Based upon the posts I've read in this thread, there are a LOT of people who don't understand how CDMA (or system on a chip (SoC)) works. CDMA requires a key that is controlled by the network provider; in this case Verizon. Verizon provides that key to the chip maker (Qualcomm), who then includes it into the firmware of the SoC. That is then provided to the OEM who incorporates it into the OS/Firmware build. Without that key, and if the CDMA radio is not enabled, the phone will not work on a CDMA network. Which is what Verizon uses for its voice and SMS network.

    Here's a little more info about the SoC being used on the 950 and 950XL.

    The Snap Dragon 810 (950XL) is also on the (gasp)... HTC One M9

    The Snap Dragon 808 (950) is also on the...wait for it... LG G4

    Both the M9 and G4 are on Verizon's network. Why? Because the CDMA radios on those two devices are enabled. By whom you ask? That would be Qualcomm. There are no hardware differences between the 810 on the M9 and the 950XL It isn't cost effective for Qualcomm to make two separate versions of a SoC. In fact doing so defeats the whole purpose of the SoC. All modern SoC's have CDMA, GSM, LTE, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc. built in.

    Qualcomm Snapdragon 810 MSM8994 Specs and Reviews
    No CDMA isn't necessarily required anymore. Verizon has already rolled out VoLTE meaning you can makes calls and send texts over the LTE network. And according to a previous poster, it's been done before where someone managed to activate a Nexus 5 on Verizon but it was LTE-only. Also, Verizon is mandated by the FCC to accept any device on their LTE network for the recent bands they acquired. So even without CDMA radios, these phones might still work on Verizon's network as long as they're not actively blocking the devices.
    11-12-2015 08:19 AM
  21. gernerttl's Avatar
    No CDMA isn't necessarily required anymore. Verizon has already rolled out VoLTE meaning you can makes calls and send texts over the LTE network. And according to a previous poster, it's been done before where someone managed to activate a Nexus 5 on Verizon but it was LTE-only. Also, Verizon is mandated by the FCC to accept any device on their LTE network for the recent bands they acquired. So even without CDMA radios, these phones might still work on Verizon's network as long as they're not actively blocking the devices.
    Yes, Verizon has rolled out VoLTE, it is branded as "Advanced Calling." The problem is for Advanced Calling to work, you: 1 - Must have an Advanced Calling enabled device, AND, 2 - you can only call other Advanced Calling enabled phones. So even you if could get the 950/950XL to work on Verizon's network, the people you could call would be small. Verizon still has a LOT of users that are not on the latest and greatest smart phone. Verizon has 27 phones that are advanced calling capable. That is out of a total of 59 different devices; which includes smartphones, basic phones, tablets, and mobile hot spots. What does that mean? Well you would not be able to talk to any of the users that have 1 of the 9 smartphones that are not Advanced Calling enabled or ANY of the basic phone users.

    So with that being said, why would Verizon authorize a device that can only talk to limited customers? The devices that Verizon offer will talk to any other device on its network as well as any other device on any other network. That is what Verizon is concerned with.
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-12-2015 03:32 PM
  22. Zendroid1's Avatar
    871 posts and here we stand with the answer nearly the same as it was day one: No one knows yet.
    11-12-2015 03:56 PM
  23. RumoredNow's Avatar
    871 posts and here we stand with the answer nearly the same as it was day one: No one knows yet.

    won-internet.jpg
    libra89 likes this.
    11-12-2015 04:11 PM
  24. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    871 posts and here we stand with the answer nearly the same as it was day one: No one knows yet.
    YEP = that is exactly where we stand !!! I "pre-ordered" at a Silicon Valley Microsoft store in Valley Fair Mall - ON Oct 10, 2015 - with expected delivery on Oct 26!!!

    Today is November 12, 2015 and I HAVE NOT heard squat !!!

    I say, I NEVER said Verizon = NO US PHONES YET = WHY?
    11-12-2015 08:25 PM
  25. Bobvfr's Avatar
    I wonder what we will do on these dark winter nights when we know the answer to this question, life will seem so empty.
    11-12-2015 08:29 PM
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