12-02-2015 10:33 PM
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  1. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    The problem is, according to some documents people have discovered, only the Lumia 950, not the XL, is compatible with Verizon's Band 13. The NAM (North America) model of the 950, supports LTE Band 13 and the only reason you'd support Band 13 in North America is for Verizon. Technically, the 950 XL could just support Verizon's LTE Band 2 and 4, but without Band 13, the odds of it working are even slimmer and your 4G coverage would be terrible.

    The best way to test if the 950 line will work on Verizon would be to test it on the standard 950. Aside from the lack of CDMA support, the 950 has everything else you need to be on Verizon.
    To me - I started this thread as a quirk and now at 93,000 + views and 37 pages = we STILL DON'T KNOW !!!

    Closing this thread would be "WRONG" and let's BOTH Verizon and Microsoft OFF-the-HOOK!!!

    I follow the blogs like a hawk and - even though we KNOW a lot is BS - I "see headlines" with Germany "pre-order", Poland "pre-order", UK, Australia, Italy, Russia, Canada, Brazil, etc. ...

    AND ... US Microsoft "stores" PRE-ORDER "sold out" or delayed til December = MAY BE a WINNER!

    Maybe = Verizon says "GOTTA STOP AT&T from making more money than us" on the 950 and 950XL ???

    Verizon MISSED the iPhone = IDIOTS !!!
    RumoredNow and aximtreo like this.
    11-18-2015 09:21 PM
  2. Generalheed's Avatar
    To me - I started this thread as a quirk and now at 93,000 + views and 37 pages = we STILL DON'T KNOW !!!

    Closing this thread would be "WRONG" and let's BOTH Verizon and Microsoft OFF-the-HOOK!!!

    I follow the blogs like a hawk and - even though we KNOW a lot is BS - I "see headlines" with Germany "pre-order", Poland "pre-order", UK, Australia, Italy, Russia, Canada, Brazil, etc. ...

    AND ... US Microsoft "stores" PRE-ORDER "sold out" or delayed til December = MAY BE a WINNER!

    Maybe = Verizon says "GOTTA STOP AT&T from making more money than us" on the 950 and 950XL ???

    Verizon MISSED the iPhone = IDIOTS !!!
    Well the 950's are shipping now and some people already have them. So it won't be long till someone attempts to use a Verizon SIM in a 950 to see if it works or not. Fingers crossed!
    DavidinCT likes this.
    11-18-2015 11:40 PM
  3. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Please do not stop this thread, 37 pages of guesses and speculation cannot end now, it would be a crime.
    Actually 10 pages for those brave enough to max out their posts per page setting. But yeah, pretty incredible!
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-19-2015 06:28 AM
  4. 920Walker's Avatar
    Closing this thread would be blasphemous.

    I heard the 950 will work during the time between a new moon and waxing gibous, while the 950XL will work between a full moon and waning crescent.
    11-19-2015 07:53 AM
  5. dmc5076's Avatar
    Ok, I have read most of the posts and have done some research on the frequencies of existing Verizon Windows phones and this is the data from that research. It is my perception that the unlocked Lumia 950 and 950 XL should work on Verizon by comparing the info below. Sorry, I don't have enough posts so cannot post the links to the Microsoft Store and Verizon links. Thoughts?

    Verizon - LG Lancet (Blue)

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store VERIZON link

    CDMA (BC0 / BC1)
    LTE (Band2 / Band4 / Band5(TBD) / Band13)
    Category 4

    Verizon - HTC One (M8) for Windows (Gray)

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store VERIZON link

    LTE3: 700/AWS/1800/2600MHz;
    GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz;
    WCDMA: 850/900/1900/2100 MHz;
    CDMA: 800/1900 MHz (BC0/BC1)


    Verizon - Microsoft Lumia 735

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store VERIZON link

    GSM network: 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz
    GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0kbps
    GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8kbps
    WCDMA Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 5 (850 MHz), Band 8 (900 MHz)
    WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2Mbps (Cat 24)
    WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE FDD network: Band 20 (800MHz), Band 3 (1800 MHz), Band 7 (2600 MHz)
    LTE max data speed DL: 150 Mbps (Cat 4)
    LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 4)


    AT&T - Microsoft Lumia 950 (Black)

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store VERIZON link

    GSM network: 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz
    GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0kbps
    GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8kbps
    WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 8 (900MHz)
    WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2Mbps (Cat 24)
    WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE FDD network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 17 (700MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 20 (800MHz), Band 3 (1800MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 7 (2600MHz), Band 8 (900MHz), Band 28 (700MHz), Band 12 (700MHz)
    TD-LTE network: Band 38 (2570-2620MHz), Band 40 (2300-2400MHz), Band 41 partially (2555-2575 MHz)
    LTE max data speed DL: 300 Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 6)

    Microsoft Lumia 950 Unlocked

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store

    GSM network: 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz
    GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0kbps
    GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8kbps
    WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 8 (900MHz)
    WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2Mbps (Cat 24)
    WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE FDD network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 17 (700MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 20 (800MHz), Band 3 (1800MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 7 (2600MHz), Band 8 (900MHz), Band 28 (700MHz), Band 12 (700MHz)
    TD-LTE network: Band 38 (2570-2620MHz), Band 40 (2300-2400MHz), Band 41 partially (2555-2575 MHz)
    LTE max data speed DL: 300 Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 6)

    Microsoft Lumia 950 XL - Unlocked (Black)

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store

    GSM network: 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz
    GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0kbps
    GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8kbps
    WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 8 (900MHz)
    WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2Mbps (Cat 24)
    WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE FDD network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 17 (700MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 20 (800MHz), Band 3 (1800MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 7 (2600MHz), Band 8 (900MHz), Band 28 (700MHz), Band 12 (700MHz)
    TD-LTE network: Band 38 (2570-2620MHz), Band 40 (2300-2400MHz), Band 41 partially (2555-2575 MHz)
    LTE max data speed DL: 300 Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 6)
    11-19-2015 09:47 PM
  6. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    11-19-2015 10:39 PM
  7. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    Ok, I have read most of the posts and have done some research on the frequencies of existing Verizon Windows phones and this is the data from that research. It is my perception that the unlocked Lumia 950 and 950 XL should work on Verizon by comparing the info below. Sorry, I don't have enough posts so cannot post the links to the Microsoft Store and Verizon links. Thoughts?


    Verizon - Microsoft Lumia 735

    Link to this phone is in the Microsoft Store VERIZON link

    GSM network: 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz
    GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0kbps
    GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8kbps
    WCDMA Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 5 (850 MHz), Band 8 (900 MHz)
    WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2Mbps (Cat 24)
    WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76Mbps (Cat 6)
    LTE FDD network: Band 20 (800MHz), Band 3 (1800 MHz), Band 7 (2600 MHz)
    LTE max data speed DL: 150 Mbps (Cat 4)
    LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 4)

    I'm assuming you were trying to show a Verizon-sold phone that didn't have CDMA and thus relied on only LTE? If that's the case, the spec's you pulled from the MS store are incomplete. The 735 definitely does have CDMA

    Microsoft Lumia 735 Specifications - Microsoft - USA

    Cellular connectivity4
    • GSM network: 850 MHz, 900 MHz, 1800 MHz, 1900 MHz
    • GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0 kbps
    • GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8 kbps
    • WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 2 (1900 MHz), Band 5 (850 MHz)
    • WCDMA max data speed DL: 21.1 Mbps (Cat 14)
    • WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76 Mbps (Cat 6)
    • LTE FDD network: Band 2 (1900 MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 13 (700MHz)
    • LTE max data speed DL: 150 Mbps (Cat 4)
    • LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 4)
    • CDMA network bands: BC1 (1900 MHz), BC0 (800 MHz)
    • CDMA max data speed DL: Rev 0 /A 2.4 Mbps /3.1 Mbps
    • CDMA max data speed UL: Rev 0 /A 153.2 kbps /1.8 Mbps
    11-19-2015 10:41 PM
  8. maevinj's Avatar
    I really think this thread should be locked but stickied. How many more times are we going to get random frequencies posted trying to support the theory these phones will work on Verizon. They WILL NOT WORK. Just wait for the 958 and 958 XL to come out next summer..
    11-19-2015 10:51 PM
  9. Generalheed's Avatar
    I really think this thread should be locked but stickied. How many more times are we going to get random frequencies posted trying to support the theory these phones will work on Verizon. They WILL NOT WORK. Just wait for the 958 and 958 XL to come out next summer..
    We won't know till we try. This thread can be locked once someone definitively shows us what happens when you put a Verizon SIM inside a 950.
    11-19-2015 11:55 PM
  10. RumoredNow's Avatar
    [INFO]That should be enough debate on whether to close the thread or not...

    Could be construed as backseat moderating if someone gets twitchy.

    Refrain from Backseat Modding - refers to ordinary users taking a moderator-like tone in criticizing other members. Do not do this. If you feel a post or thread requires moderation, please use the report post button.
    Community Rules & Guidelines - Mobile Nations Forums[/INFO]


    Let's return to the fascinating tale of will it or won't it on "As the Lumia Turns."
    aximtreo, tgp, DavidinCT and 2 others like this.
    11-20-2015 01:27 AM
  11. aximtreo's Avatar
    I spoke with MS Tech Support yesterday, 11/19. I called to discuss this very topic because I bough the 950xl onlline on 11/16 and it is supposed to ship before 11/25. I can't in good faith spend this much money and take a chance it would work on Verizon. I explained this to the rep in great emotional detail. After some heming and hawing, the rep stated that neither the 950 or 950xl would work on Verizon; even utilizing only the LTE bands. I gathered from that there are no immediate plans to activate these two phones to allow Verizon operation. The rep agreed that this was a good supposition. I explained that I could not break a 4 line family plan on Verizon to go to AT&T just for the xl. I requested that my order be cancelled. Sorry, I won't be able to be the test guinea pig this time.

    Follow-up: As for 6:15 AM MST, my order has not been cancelled. Don't know what's up but will post more later.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    11-20-2015 07:12 AM
  12. Akira X's Avatar
    Went to the MS store with my Lumia Icon, pulled my SIM and put it in a 950 (att&t), no go.
    Also tried my SIM in a 640xl (unlocked), no go.

    Unlocked 950 come out on the 26th(MS store opens at 6pm) , will try again at that time.
    Last edited by Akira X; 11-20-2015 at 12:58 PM.
    11-20-2015 12:22 PM
  13. PuckCowboy's Avatar
    Went to the MS store with my Lumia Icon, pulled my SIM and put it in a 950 (att&t), no go.
    Also tried my SIM in a 640xl (unlocked), no also.

    Unlocked 950 come out on the 26th(MS store opens at 6pm) , will try again at that time.
    Thanks Akira. Looking forward to what you report on the 26th.
    11-20-2015 12:40 PM
  14. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Went to the MS store with my Lumia Icon, pulled my SIM and put it in a 950 (att&t), no go.
    Also tried my SIM in a 640xl (unlocked), no go.

    Unlocked 950 come out on the 26th(MS store opens at 6pm) , will try again at that time.
    If you go back about 30 pages you should find other have also tried this and you should find explanations why this wouldn't work.

    We need a live working phone test.

    We must be getting close and the excitement is building.................
    RumoredNow and Kevin Rush like this.
    11-20-2015 02:45 PM
  15. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I heard the 950 will work during the time between a new moon and waxing gibous, while the 950XL will work between a full moon and waning crescent.
    Awesome, let me get out my credit card RIGHT NOW TO BUY IT ! Epic, thanks for the conformation !

    :)
    920Walker likes this.
    11-20-2015 02:47 PM
  16. editguy's Avatar
    Went to the MS store with my Lumia Icon, pulled my SIM and put it in a 950 (att&t), no go.
    Also tried my SIM in a 640xl (unlocked), no go.

    Unlocked 950 come out on the 26th(MS store opens at 6pm) , will try again at that time.
    If it works (highly unlikely), it would require the unlocked version.
    11-20-2015 02:49 PM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    To me - I started this thread as a quirk and now at 93,000 + views and 37 pages = we STILL DON'T KNOW !!!
    Some of us already know. No CDMA = no Verizon, at least not at this point.

    AFAIK there has never been a non-CDMA device that fully worked on Verizon, and none that worked at all without a hack that is probably not possible on WP/W10M.

    As it stands now, the only way this is going to work on Verizon is if the phones actually have CDMA capabilities, and they're just not listed in the specs.

    And just to clarify, WCDMA ≠ CDMA!
    11-20-2015 04:10 PM
  18. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    I started this thread on Oct 5 = 43 days ago and interestingly enough - as best I know - we have STILL not heard any "official word from eithers Microsoft nor Verizon? We heard that "Paul Thurrott HEARD for some trusted Microsoft sources" blah, blah, blah! We have seen all kinds off technical theories about VoLTE, etc. but WHY does the 950 list Band 13 and NOT CDMA ... yet, there is NO Band 13 for the 950XL?
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    11-20-2015 07:34 PM
  19. Assassin 11B3P's Avatar
    wishful thinking that verizon will ever carry wp again.
    aximtreo and theefman like this.
    11-21-2015 09:38 PM
  20. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    wishful thinking that verizon will ever carry wp again.
    I think they will. They just misread Microsoft's commitment to no exclusives and ability to update the phones. They thought Microsoft would fold and they guessed wrong. Clearly having exclusives and controlling updates is NOT a deal breaker for Verizon. Now that they understand MS' position, the next negotiation should mostly be how much MS wants for the phones. Either that or MS will snatch victory from the jaws of defeat and let the carriers resume killing them by a million paper cuts. Either way, Verizon will probably be selling WPs.
    libra89 and aximtreo like this.
    11-21-2015 09:48 PM
  21. gernerttl's Avatar
    I was at the MS store yesterday playing around with the AT&T version of the 950. I mentioned to a store rep that I'm on Verizon and not expecting the 950 or 950XL to work on Verizon. He mentioned the unlocked version. I had to explain how CDMA works and what has to be done and who does it for it to work on Verizon's (or Sprint's for that matter) network. For the record, he seemed new (I think he was a temp to help out during the Christmas holiday) and didn't know that the SP3, SP4 and Surface Book use the same charger.

    As it stands right now, we KNOW that the unlocked and unbranded version will work on ANY GSM and LTE network worldwide as long as you have an activated SIM for that network. In the US, that means AT&T and T-Mobile and their respective MVNO's.

    THEORETICALLY, it will work on Verizon's LTE network. However, since (as far as we know) the CDMA radio isn't enabled, then that is pointless. Right now, VZW handles its voice and SMS via 3G, and you can only use VoLTE (aka "Advanced Calling") when calling another VoLTE enabled device. Which means, if you enter any areas that don't have VZW's LTE coverage (and they do exist), you will lose ALL voice and data functionality of the phone, to include not being able to dial 911.

    I saw somebody mention in an earlier post that maybe the 3G will be handled via roaming on AT&T's or T-Mobile's GSM spectrum. Not likely, since you would need a AT&T or T-Mobile SIM for that to work. It is the 4G spectrum that the FCC mandated that the carriers can't block. The 3G spectrum was not part of that deal. Which then goes into the reports that Verizon is actively blocking 950s from connecting to its LTE network. Those were rumors and there was no actually confirmed instances of that happening...especially since the 950 and 950XL hadn't even been released yet.
    aximtreo and libra89 like this.
    11-23-2015 11:47 PM
  22. Drew Neilson's Avatar
    the SP3, SP4 and Surface Book use the same charger.
    Quick correction: from what I heard from Paul Thurrott on TWiT's Windows Weekly podcast, the Surface Book cannot be charged by any of the Surface Pro chargers. He said that if you insert a Surface Pro charger into the Surface Book, it'll APPEAR as if it is charging, but it isn't.
    11-24-2015 12:21 AM
  23. DoctorPizza's Avatar
    This document outlines the open access provisions that govern Verizon's network due to its successful bid for part of the 700 MHz spectrum.

    https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...-08-1108A1.pdf

    Essentially, VZW cannot prevent a device from using its network under the open access provisions, as long as the device passes network compatibility tests. These tests are defined by Verizon, but conducted by third parties, and while it would cost some money (sub-$1 million, but not free either), the decision on whether or not to submit to the tests lies entirely with the manufacturer, which is to say, Microsoft.

    These are Microsoft's filings with the FCC:

    https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repor..._id=PYARM-1105

    The HAC Antenna Report describes the antenna configuration of the phone.

    There is support for GSM, WCDMA (which is to say, UMTS/HSPA), and LTE. There is no support for CDMA2000/EVDO.

    If Microsoft elected, it could have built CDMA2000/EVDO support. It could have used the open access provisions to get its phone validated for use on Verizon's network, and Verizon would have had no choice, per FCC rules, to allow the phone onto the network. This does not mean that VZW would sell or provide tech support for the phone, of course, but the company would have been required to provide SIMs and activate the hardware for anyone with an unlocked handset.

    Those are the facts. The information is in the public domain, and the open access rules are inarguable. Verizon simply cannot keep compatible devices off its network. The only requirement is that you build a compatible device in the first place, and Microsoft has not done so.

    I do not believe that Microsoft has abandoned CDMA entirely. Although Verizon plans to turn off its CDMA2000/EVDO network by 2021 (IIRC), in the meantime it's still a necessary evil. But for this iteration it has fallen by the wayside. Most resources have been allocated to Windows on the desktop, not mobile, and many Nokia staff have been laid off, leaving Microsoft light when it comes to staff with deep telephony experience. GSM covers most markets, so is obviously the more important tech to support, and GSM is simpler in some regards (for example, there's no need for simultaneous 2G + 3G connections in the GSM family, since voice/SMS can be carried over UMTS/HSPA without issue). While Microsoft has done this work before, for Windows Phone 7 and 8, Windows 10 Mobile is arguably different enough that the support can't be lifted wholesale.
    11-24-2015 01:22 AM
  24. MikeSo's Avatar
    Essentially, VZW cannot prevent a device from using its network under the open access provisions, as long as the device passes network compatibility tests.
    Can you point out where that is established? I have tried to find it and have not been successful in doing so. In fact, I have only found the direct opposite, explicitly stated:

    700 MHz C Block licensees may not deny access to a customer’s device solely because that device makes use of other wireless spectrum bands, such as cellular or PCS spectrum. However, in accepting a multi-band device on its network, a 700 MHz C Block licensee is not required to extend the requirement for open platforms devices and applications to other spectrum bands on which the provider operates. The Commission did not require wireless service providers to allow the unrestricted use of any devices or applications on their networks.

    Wireless service providers may continue to use their own certification standards and processes to approve use of devices and applications on their networks so long as those standards are confined to reasonable network management. Wireless providers have legitimate technical reasons to restrict particular non-carrier devices and applications on their networks, specifically to ensure the safety and integrity of their networks. In particular, it is reasonable for wireless service providers to maintain network control features that permit dynamic management of network operations, including the management of devices operating on the network, and to restrict use of the network to devices compatible with these network control features
    So as I read that they can block CDMA devices to their heart's content "to ensure the safety and integrity of their network", which cripples any non-approved (LTE only) phone. Can you point to information that says otherwise?
    Last edited by MikeSo; 11-24-2015 at 02:00 AM.
    11-24-2015 01:39 AM
  25. DoctorPizza's Avatar
    Quick correction: from what I heard from Paul Thurrott on TWiT's Windows Weekly podcast, the Surface Book cannot be charged by any of the Surface Pro chargers. He said that if you insert a Surface Pro charger into the Surface Book, it'll APPEAR as if it is charging, but it isn't.
    I'm not sure this is right.

    However, I think it depends which charger you have. There are three current generation Surface chargers: 24W, 36W, and 65W.

    Surface Pro 4 with Core m3 ships with the 24W charger; it's distinguishable by having no USB port on the charger.

    Surface Pro 4 with Core i5 and i7 ship with the 36W charger. Surface Book without discrete graphics also ships with the 36W charger. This charger has a USB port, and it's identical regardless of which system it ships with. I have charged an integrated-only Surface Book with a "Surface Pro 4" charger. It charges fine, as one would expect.

    Surface Book with discrete graphics ships with the 65W charger. This looks substantially the same as the 36W charger, but obviously has more power. This charger also has the USB port. The high power charger can charge the integrated-only Surface Book and the Surface Pro 4, and they appear to charge more quickly. It's also compatible with the Surface Pro 3, of course.

    The combination I'm not sure of is the 36W charger (whether supplied with Surface Pro 4 or the integrated-only Surface Book) with the discrete GPU Surface Book. It's possible that this does not charge (or at least, does not charge quickly) which might be why Paul says it doesn't work; I suspect that he has the discrete graphics part. But if so, it's this that makes the difference, not whether the charger is a "Surface Pro" or "Surface Book" charger per se.

    The Surface Dock (new style, not sure about old style) has a 90W power brick, and so I assume that with regard to charging, it's equivalent to the 65W part.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-24-2015 01:49 AM
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