Will an "unlocked" 950XL work on Verizon?

[theefman]

Well, if these phones or the rumored upcoming Surface phone won't work on CDMA carriers, then Microsoft shouldn't even bother with W10M in the US because no developer in their right mind would focus on a platform that explicitly excludes half or more of a potential market.

Since when does Verizon have half or more of the total US wireless market? Not to mention you STILL have to battle the reps in store to actually buy a WP device. Seems this is yet another example of people blowing the importance of Verizon waaaaay out of proportion....

 

[HoosierDaddy]

We DO NOT have the FCC info, as reported above, since the info someone got was for a different model. Just clarifying the facts as I've caught them so far.

I'm not on Verizon and would probably use cans and strings before ever using them but would the FCC info prove one way or another if the phone could work on Verizon? I mean, couldn't a phone maker include everything needed (possibly because its built into components from 3rd parties) but just didn't have it tested/certified? Is it possible all it might take is having the phone re-certified for those frequencies after a carrier makes it worth their time and money to do that?

 

[PepperdotNet]

I'm not on Verizon and would probably use cans and strings before ever using them but would the FCC info prove one way or another if the phone could work on Verizon? I mean, couldn't a phone maker include everything needed (possibly because its built into components from 3rd parties) but just didn't have it tested/certified? Is it possible all it might take is having the phone re-certified for those frequencies after a carrier makes it worth their time and money to do that?

Yes to all that. The FCC info will show whether the phone is certified for CDMA. If not, it's still possible that it contains all the required components and could be certified later.

 

[phelme]

While it's true that Microsoft is relegating Windows Phone to niche status (as it has been), they are very bullish about creating the app store for Windows 10 and getting developers there to make Universal apps. I don't know if it will help W10M, since the use scenarios for phones vs laptops/PCs are very different,

If you follow the developer guidelines for Windows 10 universal apps, the tools and API's are there to have a UX work across all platforms. Though with varying degrees of UI friendliness IMO. This is one of the reasons MS has been going more towards hamburgers than panoramas and pivots.

 

[MikeSo]

If you follow the developer guidelines for Windows 10 universal apps, the tools and API's are there to have a UX work across all platforms. Though with varying degrees of UI friendliness IMO. This is one of the reasons MS has been going more towards hamburgers than panoramas and pivots.

Correct. I was referring more to whether developers would be willing to develop a Windows 10 app that is mostly intended for mobile use, say like a jukebox app or bus ride planning app.

 

[luxnws]

While it's true that Microsoft is relegating Windows Phone to niche status (as it has been), they are very bullish about creating the app store for Windows 10 and getting developers there to make Universal apps. I don't know if it will help W10M, since the use scenarios for phones vs laptops/PCs are very different, but there should be a spillover effect. I don't think Microsoft is ready to throw int he towel on Windows Phone yet. It's still their plain A to have their own mobile offering. However, it is clear that the Plan B of being an "alternative ecosystem" on iOS and Android is very strongly at the forefront of their strategy as well.

Which frankly is the most important thing to me, and which makes me secure in choosing Lumia 950XL as my next phone. If MS decides to call it a day in mobile development, I can just get an Android phone and keep using the same Microsoft services. That is a much more important aspect to me than the viability of the OS itself.

From going head-to-head against Apple and Samsung a few years ago with national ad campaigns to having to sell the top-of-the-line 950 XL flagship only through the Microsoft store now pretty much is throwing in the towel. One indication will be going to an AT&T store early next year and seeing how much AT&T salespeople are trying to sell the 950 after the release publicity dies down.

It's like the current batch of Windows Phones are stubs or placeholders until Microsoft can pull a Surface Book-like surprise in phones. Still I hope every WP enthusiast with the spendable cash buys a 950 or a 950XL if only to support the os. WP 8.1 was good and W10M is better.

 

[Jeddic]

Wow, I haven't kept up on the past few pages, but there is some misinformation on this page.

Microsoft has made clear with their investment, and public statements, that they are very committed to having a strong presence in mobile. They know they can't compete with Android and iOS head-to-head now. We all know that. But MS will be an option. They know that unless they can get 30% plus of Americans or others in the world to use their phones, they won't get the same developer attention. That's why they're fighting for UWP apps, so they can use their W10 userbase to get mobile apps.

MS will continue to support these devices. I think, based on trends over the last year, the support will even be better than what past flagships received. Also, they did say that they're letting the distribution channels narrow for now, so they can push wider distribution in the future.

These are two of the last Nokia phones. After this, comes MS designs. Will they be mature, awesome designs like the Surface Pro 4, or more like the Surface Pro? We don't know right now. But I think we can guess that whatever Panos has coming will be pretty cool, and MS will throw a lot of weight behind it.

 

[Jeddic]

From going head-to-head against Apple and Samsung a few years ago with national ad campaigns to having to sell the top-of-the-line 950 XL flagship only through the Microsoft store now pretty much is throwing in the towel.

I don't think Microsoft is giving up. I think they're refocusing. It makes no sense to spend millions on ads and getting your phones into carrier stores, when the carriers do everything they can to not sell them. Better to advertise phones that will be in your own store, where people will be able to find them and learn about them, and maybe even buy one.

 

[luxnws]

I don't think Microsoft is giving up. I think they're refocusing. It makes no sense to spend millions on ads and getting your phones into carrier stores, when the carriers do everything they can to not sell them. Better to advertise phones that will be in your own store, where people will be able to find them and learn about them, and maybe even buy one.

"Refocusing." Sounds like corporate-speak.

Microsoft will continue to support the phones but they aren't and won't be trying to be #1 or #2 anymore. Isn't one of the mantras that if you're not #1 or #2 in a category...like the billion dollar business mantra.

 

[TexasLabRat]

It was also said in REDDIT that someone put in a Verizon 4G sim and it did nothing....

right, but it's unclear if it was an issue of the SIM slots themselves being disabled or if the phone was not able to connect due to locked out/missing bands. I haven't heard of anyone putting in another SIM (t-mobile or at&t) and having it work in the demo units. So, we're not sure WHY it didn't work. Again, due to the missing FCC docs for RM-1116, I would wager that they are just "dummy" phones for now.

 

[MikeSo]

Only problem I see with that is that the 950XL is RM-1116, not RM-1085.

https://fccid.io/PYAAAA
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-334865A1.pdf

One of the 640XL models were referred to as that: PYAAAA.

The 640 was RM-1063 and the other 640XL was RM-1073.
So the model number there isn't necessarily an indication of which name the phone is marketed under.

Though I have yet to see where the phonescoop.com information comes from that the RM-1085 is the 950XL?

 

[falconrap]

Thought I would chime in here. First, it's pretty clear too me that Verizon is mostly responsible for this mess. Whether or not the phones were pulled for something related to this...who knows? Doubt it though. Second, Paul Thurott was really good in the past, but he seems more like an old curmudgeon these days. His statement on phones being dead is idiotic and quite wrong. MS isn't going to be going gung ho after the consumer market for now. They are, instead, going to go backdoor. They are going to get big in mobile the same way they did with Windows...Enterprise/Businesses. Get the phones into a lot of people's hands for use in every day business and watch it translate into people buying them for personal use. This is how BB originally became popular with consumers (failing to adapt is what killed them).

I'm already seeing a step up in the number of bigger named apps hitting Windows 10 and a few hitting mobile as well. Once W10M hits and W10 hits 200 million users, to go with roughly 70-80 million mobile users, its' going to be very difficult to justify not making apps for this OS. You can't ignore a quarter of a billion people. I can see games, more than anything becoming really big on 10. We already have games that Android and IOS don't. I can see a wave of games coming as Universal W10 apps especially if they can be translated to a larger screen.

Way too much negativity on this site. It's one thing to be PO'd at VZW over this phone mess, but this isn't going to stop W10M from getting out there. MS will likely continue to sell over 8 million phones a quarter for now. That's not chump change in the user base.

 

[snorton224]

What I want to know is if wifi calling is going to be enabled on the Lumia 950 at&t.

 

[DavidinCT]

right, but it's unclear if it was an issue of the SIM slots themselves being disabled or if the phone was not able to connect due to locked out/missing bands. I haven't heard of anyone putting in another SIM (t-mobile or at&t) and having it work in the demo units. So, we're not sure WHY it didn't work. Again, due to the missing FCC docs for RM-1116, I would wager that they are just "dummy" phones for now.

Well, If the phone is fully unlocked, that means no SIM locks in anyway. But, it could be (as others have said), as Band 13 is disabled and that is the one that Verizon activates on. With that disabled it's possible that it would do nothing.

Not sure about dummy phones in the store, as there is another thread with someone with it and was a complete phone...but, it was pulled now so who knows...

What I would LOVE TO SEE, is Microsoft pass the 950 and 950XL through the FCC with Verizon's bands enabled. After passing, then disable them and put out a VERY PUBLIC statement. " We can make these phones compatible with Verizon but, Verizon is blocking us and will not allow us to" and opening a FCC complaint, that forces Verizon to change their policy on this.

It's not just about the 950...it's about the 970 2-3 years from now (if WP is still around and semi successful)

 

[TexasLabRat]

https://fccid.io/PYAAAA
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-334865A1.pdf

One of the 640XL models were referred to as that: PYAAAA.

The 640 was RM-1063 and the other 640XL was RM-1073.
So the model number there isn't necessarily an indication of which name the phone is marketed under.

Though I have yet to see where the phonescoop.com information comes from that the RM-1085 is the 950XL?

That's a good find, but it's definitely an aberration. The RM-1085 is PYARM-1085 per the elabel document posted on the FCC site. I saw on another site (through a news aggregator so I don't know specifically which one) that the RM-1116 (950XL dual sim) was certified by Brazil's FCC equivalent ANATEL. That certification doesn't mention any CDMA bands, though I don't know if that's meaningful in Brazil. I'll see if I can dig up any phones known to work on Verizon that were certified in Brazil to compare.

Certificado de Homologa??o

 

[TexasLabRat]

Well, If the phone is fully unlocked, that means no SIM locks in anyway. But, it could be (as others have said), as Band 13 is disabled and that is the one that Verizon activates on. With that disabled it's possible that it would do nothing.

Not sure about dummy phones in the store, as there is another thread with someone with it and was a complete phone...but, it was pulled now so who knows...

What I would LOVE TO SEE, is Microsoft pass the 950 and 950XL through the FCC with Verizon's bands enabled. After passing, then disable them and put out a VERY PUBLIC statement. " We can make these phones compatible with Verizon but, Verizon is blocking us and will not allow us to" and opening a FCC complaint, that forces Verizon to change their policy on this.

It's not just about the 950...it's about the 970 2-3 years from now (if WP is still around and semi successful)

I meant dummy phone meaning that the SIM slots are completely disabled because they are not legally entitled to be operational at this time. Without seeing the phone work with a T-mobile or AT&T SIM, we don't know for sure if it was a Verizon-specific issue or the demo phone is just not operational for cellular use.

 

[Groover1971]

We have three phones on Verizon (Icon, 928, 822) and all are great phones. So is the coverage and reliability of Verizon's signal. But we came from Sprint when they stopped supporting Windows Phones. Now we have been seeing the same on Verizon. Also, having a CDMA phone (Sprint & Verizon) greatly limits where you can use them when you want to shop other plans. I'm ready to switch to a GSM phone so at least I can have a choice of plans and coverage (AT&T or T-Mobile). I'm ready for some healthy competition between the carriers instead of the current exclusivity that they keep using to eliminate competition.

 

[MikeSo]

That's a good find, but it's definitely an aberration. The RM-1085 is PYARM-1085 per the elabel document posted on the FCC site. I saw on another site (through a news aggregator so I don't know specifically which one) that the RM-1116 (950XL dual sim) was certified by Brazil's FCC equivalent ANATEL. That certification doesn't mention any CDMA bands, though I don't know if that's meaningful in Brazil. I'll see if I can dig up any phones known to work on Verizon that were certified in Brazil to compare.

Certificado de Homologa??o

I am more curious about where phonescoop.com got the information from that the documents they reference are the 950XL. I didn't see anything that connected the two, but I didn't look at every document either.

 

[TexasLabRat]

I am more curious about where phonescoop.com got the information from that the documents they reference are the 950XL. I didn't see anything that connected the two, but I didn't look at every document either.

Earlier this year the RM-1085 was identified as the upcoming "940XL" as it was speculated to be called back then. It's been mostly debunked...but there's been no clear-cut evidence explictly linking the RM-1085 to another device yet and so I guess there are several sites that maintain their own private databases of phone info might still link the RM-1085 id with the 950XL model. We do know that the RM-1085 is FCC ID PYARM-1085, so it doesn't look like model RM-1116 could be that device. That said, there is no "law" that requires model RM-1116 to be FCC ID PYARM-1116 (which is MIA in the FCC docs to date), though it probably will be. The FCC ID *should* be on the sticker inside the phone somewhere if someone gets a chance to snap a pic. Additionally, I did a search on the FCC site for all approvals from Microsoft between May 1 til today, and only 2 phones popped up...the RM-1085 and another device which looks like an old nokia candybar phone.

 

[falconrap]

That Brazil FCC listing clearly shows CDMA 800 and 900MHz bands (EDGE) and LTE Band 13 (700MHz). Clearly that version of the hardware is physically capable. Of course, this goes back to the CDMA authentication ******* contest with Verizon, even if the bands were enabled.

The best thing about all of this is that it keeps the Lumias in the tech press and keeps VZW on the naughty list.