11-07-2015 04:00 PM
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  1. crise's Avatar
    In reply to Reading between the lines: What Panos was telegraphing about those new Lumias | Windows Central

    Daniel, I disagree with you. Are you telling me Microsoft had no input and that these are Nokia leftovers? That's ridiculous because it would mean we are talking about tech that is more than a year old. That is not the case. Nokia ended long ago. It would mean there was no development for over a year. This phone is largely developed by Microsoft! Of course they used leftovers from Nokia, who wouldn't? They had great tech. Microsoft has had over a year to have had a large input on these devices. And you can see it. You are all interpreting it wrong.

    The reason why not much attention was paid to the phones was because:
    A. We already knew everything about them.
    B. Windows mobile is not ready, too risky to show stuff.
    C. Nobody except windows phone fans are interested in their phones, it doesn't matter how great they are. Ther are not going to sell. So why waste time on presenting them? Read: http://mashable.com/2015/10/06/micro...s#lovyr3X9U8qp People who use iPhones or Galaxies won't jump ship. But people do jump ship for a surface. Why? Because windows 10 has a mature ecosystem and because Surfaces are kind of revolutionary. Windows 10 mobile has the app problem and phones allow for no more revolutions for a while to come. The reason why they don't pay much attention to phones is because they want to grow the phone business in a later stage. They take a reverse path to finally, in the end lead people to using their windows phones. Maybe in 4-5 years. Until then they will focus on apps everywhere and on surfaces because that is a hole in the market and businesses have demand for them.

    This all stands apart from the Lumia 950 and 950XL being top flagship premium phones. They are! They have almost everything you could wish for. Except no metal housing. Are you kidding me? Metal sucks. Specwise they beat every other phone out their. The camera is supposed to be better than the 1020! It has glance, wireless charging, everything in 1 phone. In the past there have always been sacrifices. It's even very light, not heavy. And now that's suddenly a problem because it doesn't feel premium? What a nonsense. The 920 had so many complaints it was too heavy. Another website says "Power has never been so light" http://mashable.com/2015/10/06/micro...edium=webfeeds

    You are talking this phone down for no reason. Because of articles like these even fans won't buy these phones and Microsoft will have another reason to invest less in these kind of phones. I really don't understand why you would write articles like this. Even anti-MS sites like The Verge and Cnet are interested in these phones. Maybe these phones come unusual to us because of the non-mindblowing design, but that is just a Windows-phone-fan thing. Android users (over 80%) don't care much about design. They all use ugly phones and an ugly Android software.

    Wait until you get these phones with a more polished w10m. They will blow your mind. And the best thing is, these phones will improve over time like no other phone before at insane speed. Windows 10 and its apps will develop over time to make the phones even better.

    You fans out there better buy one of these because I promise you, the 'surface' phones are not going to supersede these flagships. They are not what you should wait for. They will fit a different category. They will sacrifice on camera quality and several other things. Yes they might look better, but might also be metal and break/damage more easily. People will regret not getting a 950 when they find out. By that time if you still decide to buy a 950/950xl they will be old and not feel so cool anymore. At that point you will have to wait another year for something to come or have a less satisfying purchase of a 950/950XL.

    Relax, these phones are worth it, they are really underestimated.
    Last edited by crise; 10-10-2015 at 07:35 AM.
    10-10-2015 07:24 AM
  2. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    While I agree with you partially I also feel you may be reading into other stuff a bit too much.
    10-10-2015 07:46 AM
  3. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    Thou add balance; Daniel has used the devices. He's seen the os. He probably knows about the subject far more than the normal consumer because this is his job and he will have professional contracts and professional Intel. If he's unenthusiastic it's because that is what it is. It's also his opinion. The minority that would purchase wp won't get swayed by what he does our does not day. People can make their own minds. The tps and coming along nicely. They are also not setting the world on fire, whether in Enterprise or for consumers. Again, it is what it is. Rather, let's all just wait and see what msft bring to the table. If it is a placeholder for the prior panos led flagship - well maft are causing their own consumer apathy. And they have been doing it for years. I'm talking about from '99 and 2000's. Windows mobile has been all over the place, and, due to msft management decisions, the result is that the majority of consumers do not look at msft seriously for their mobile needs. Again, one bloggers opinion won't change that. MSFT could have had a slide show of all the apps and integration that is coming. They didn't because it isn't there and because the porting tools are being worked on and because everything is coming soon.

    Bottom line, Bloomberg and many key line investors are already saying msft have gaffed in their mobile offering for the Christmas period. This coming soon nonsense is debilitating the mobile ecosystem that is already BlackBerry levels of lackluster. But that will change. In time. So the short term is messy. It was, before that blog post. The internet is aflame with criticism and Daniel may have a prominent voice or not but that won't do much either way. For me, I'm on that 950xl like glue, my 1520 is finally out for the count. I also have a g note 4, BlackBerry passport and an iphone 6s plus. I can afford it, of contact like all my devices, and this is my hobby. For regular consumers, Christmas is a tense time for hard financial choices and they will be going for bang for buck. They'll be going for an ecosystem that offers integration and apps and all that malarky. That isn't wp and hasn't been for years. MSFT can afford more rubbish dales of their flagships. Next year will be the big one. It's all... Coming soon. ;)
    Last edited by Muessig; 10-10-2015 at 10:25 AM.
    10-10-2015 08:23 AM
  4. Citizen X's Avatar
    I think Daniel is right. The phone presentation was rushed. And it didn't fit in with the Surface and Surface Book aesthetic. That doesn't mean the 950 XL is "underestimated." It seems to be a fine phone. And frankly if MSFT has bigger better things in store wouldn't that be a good thing? Due to the lack of 950 XL being sold directly by at&t I will hang on till CES to see if there is any kind of Surface Phone reveal. My contract isn't up for a couple of months anyway so I have some time. I just hope we have a Surface Phone on at&t by q1 '16.
    10-10-2015 09:49 AM
  5. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    I think Daniel is right. The phone presentation was rushed. And it didn't fit in with the Surface and Surface Book aesthetic. That doesn't mean the 950 XL is "underestimated." It seems to be a fine phone. And frankly if MSFT has bigger better things in store wouldn't that be a good thing? Due to the lack of 950 XL being sold directly by at&t I will hang on till CES to see if there is any kind of Surface Phone reveal. My contract isn't up for a couple of months anyway so I have some time. I just hope we have a Surface Phone on at&t by q1 '16.
    I think that is way too soon, especially as it'll scalp 95x series sales and cause consumer anger and distrust; yes technology is iterative but paying premiums for the flagships for them to be replaced within four months will turn off an already apathetic consumer even more. If that is possible. I think they'll be pitching a surface after a second major wm update, around late summer, Aug or sept, maybe actually telling to steak some Apple thunder, if they have the balls, as this is the period where apple hysteria ramps up - no one on their right mind released after Apple, when the squeezed consumer base has just supported their collective take on another record opening weekend. That's nuts. Buyer I feel msft may, with a surface device, feel confident. With the 95x series they're isn't anything that great. Hence the underwhelming feeling. That's ok. They needed to take this step and then fully break away from a platform strategy that hasn't worked - additionally these 95x serious devices are a good fit for Enterprise, bland, unassuming, and a boss at getting things done.

    The Enterprise market sees hardened android and IOS taking more and more share so, with the inevitable BlackBerry departure from the hardware market, msft need these devices out and bandied about. Of course, with wm being in the state it currently is, apps are few and far between. Again, by autumn next year, the surface may enter a market where the strides being made now pay off and apps are appearing in droves. I hope. Devs have choice. And, as long as the priv sells, msft need to fight for each consumers mind. Anyway, just my opinion. I can't wait to get my paws on a 950xl!!!
    rxc13 and uxo22 like this.
    10-10-2015 10:22 AM
  6. christenmartin's Avatar
    I agree with the op. I'm reading about these flag ship phones and they are azz kickers and we're worried about a perceived reaction. It's hard to enjoy anything too much with WP because you get what you want and you ***** about how it was delivered. I understand the apprehension with MS. In my humble opinion I see great opportunities with WP because I use it and its very impressive when compared to competition but I don't see MS marketing. I see surface marketing. And it works! So do that but with phones;-).
    10-10-2015 11:48 AM
  7. SeeVuPlay's Avatar
    I also agree with the OP. I think the article daniel wrote was well thought out, but I find it hard to believe that Panos was telegraphing some sort of code to the audience that he is distancing him himself. If i was in the windows phone team, I would think that its a slap in the face. I dont think panos is embarrassed or anything on the phones...i just think he is embarrassed at where the software is currently. I cant wait to purchase the 950xl....ill be coming from a 925
    10-10-2015 05:57 PM
  8. christenmartin's Avatar
    I also agree with the OP. I think the article daniel wrote was well thought out, but I find it hard to believe that Panos was telegraphing some sort of code to the audience that he is distancing him himself. If i was in the windows phone team, I would think that its a slap in the face. I dont think panos is embarrassed or anything on the phones...i just think he is embarrassed at where the software is currently. I cant wait to purchase the 950xl....ill be coming from a 925
    Exactly. Software with the surface is more polished, mobile 10 is not yet.
    rxc13 likes this.
    10-10-2015 06:20 PM
  9. ksj1's Avatar
    Panay just took over the division. It will be at least a year and probably two before a Surface phone surfaces....
    10-11-2015 01:28 AM
  10. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I agree that these are for the lumia users that have been complaining about a high end update to their existing lumias. All they were getting is low-end, mid-range phones. This was sparked by Microsoft a while ago. Satya even had a conversation with Elop on why they aren't doing any high end phones. This was in an article I read a while back. There's no way Nokia would have added the Iris scanner and liquid cooling. This was Microsoft's brain child. In fact, Panos was quite proud when he was showing off the phone taken apart into the different parts. It was not his vision for design because it was already designed externally to look like a Lumia and he wants to combine everything into the surface line. But his vision would take too long and people would get sick of waiting. He did however have lots of input on the internals. You could see his pride when they blew out all the parts in the phone. And Microsoft solution to the "premium look" was to allow people to customize these phones with the look they want with accessories. So this is partly a combination of Nokia and Panos. But Panos needs more time for his true vision. And honestly they are great phones no doubt about it. We won't see another one for a while so enjoy it while you can.

    But it's not a 4-5 year timeline. Satya said that this is a 2 year project. So the next ones will take time, but they will be as mind blowing as the surface book. Enough to get people to switch over. Especially if people already jump on the Surface book and surface 4. In fact, surface book high spec versions are already sold out. You can no longer pre-order them. These are expensive as hell too. The lower end you can still pre-order.

    And the surface phones will likely still have the 3 categories so, yes, the camera and everything will be mind blowing. But once again if you plan on waiting it's going to be a long wait.

    For me it's really about the windows update process. I wonder if AT&T is being allowed to sell them because they will let MS take over the update process. And I wonder if carriers here in Canada won't sell them for that reason.

    MS doesn't need carriers really. If they do what they did with the Surface book, no one will care they will pay the high amount of money for it. This is to keep us fans happy and these phones will keep you happy. I don't see how they cannot other than you disliking the polycarbonate look. But that's why MS partnered with MOZO and has released a guide for creating covers. The accessories will be available to customize it how you want. And the best part is it won't be external cases but actual phone covers.

    And yes I do notice android/iphone fans are more open to these phones than a lot of hardcore Windows fans. I am getting great feedback from people I know who would laugh at windows phones in the past.

    Although I'm not a fan of the dock being so expensive and not even offering a miracast solution within the dock, but the phone itself is great no doubt.
    10-11-2015 11:39 AM
  11. Citizen X's Avatar
    I think that is way too soon, especially as it'll scalp 95x series sales and cause consumer anger and distrust; yes technology is iterative but paying premiums for the flagships for them to be replaced within four months will turn off an already apathetic consumer even more.
    I don't agree. A surface phone could be like the Surface Book, a totally different beast. The thing could come with a hefty price tag and be 6" or more in screen size. It could be another strata entirely. I mean what would a Surface Phone have that the 950 XL doesn't? It would have to come in at such a close price point and have such a major feature(s) to cause universal **** hurt. The screen being a little bigger and a slightly different processor for $200 more isn't going to cause people to scream, bloody murder... or in some way obsolete the 950 XL. Also unless you get a Continuum dock bundle or something like that you are pretty much guaranteed to be paying a premium for the 950 and 950 XL if you preorder. Both of those phones go on sale between Black Friday and Christmas. No way the go the whole holiday period without some kind of deal at some point. So you won't even have to wait till February to feel hosed. That's the way this thing has worked every two years or so. I picked up the 32 GB at&t variant of the 1520 the January 2104 for $130 on contract. In November people people where paying $200 for the 16 GB variant on contract. So there is certainly a recent precedent for a better version popping up months later are a CHEAPER price.

    With the 95x series they're isn't anything that great. Hence the underwhelming feeling.
    I disagree. The presentation was underwhelming. The hardware was intriguing. What are people's expectations regarding the Surface Phone... or any phone for that matter? What is deficient in the 950 XL? By which I mean majorly deficient. Continuum is the most unique thing I've seen on a phone in years. How do you top that? The 950 XL is tops in Ram, storage expandability, USB C, wireless charging, top of the line processor, liquid cooling, Continuum, etc. What about that leads you to say, "there isn't anything that great"?
    920Walker, editguy and ajj3085 like this.
    10-11-2015 12:00 PM
  12. Citizen X's Avatar
    MS doesn't need carriers really. If they do what they did with the Surface book, no one will care they will pay the high amount of money for it.
    Not me. I'm on contract with at&t on an unlimited data plan. If I can't get a phone on contract that's a problem. Unfortunately no month to month LTE unlimited plans.
    10-11-2015 12:03 PM
  13. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Not me. I'm on contract with at&t on an unlimited data plan. If I can't get a phone on contract that's a problem. Unfortunately no month to month LTE unlimited plans.
    Is this an old plan that doesn't exist anymore? AT&T is targeting people using Windows 10 right now. They are sending out letters. There was an article on arstechnica. They are claiming "buggy software" may be using tethering and it's not part of the plan.
    10-11-2015 12:22 PM
  14. Citizen X's Avatar
    Is this an old plan that doesn't exist anymore? AT&T is targeting people using Windows 10 right now. They are sending out letters. There was an article on arstechnica. They are claiming "buggy software" may be using tethering and it's not part of the plan.
    Yes it is an old plan. I haven't installed Windows 10 on my 1520. And I haven't received any letters about tethering. As far as I know on my phone it isn't even possible unless I contact at&t and have them turn it on... for a fee, of course.

    And really it is irrelevant if the plan is new or old. If you tether without a tethering plan on at&t you are technically in violation of some random rule... whether you receive a letter or not.
    10-11-2015 12:44 PM
  15. bo_woods's Avatar
    Despite what other say, alongside these devices being joyful pieces of tech "for the fans", I feel these two Lumia's will bring over quite a bit of android users.

    And unlike the devices that were the debut the past major OS releases. This is a promising, solid and feature full OS with modern spec'd phones.

    They bring to the table modern high specs, a solid OS and new features (iris scanner, liquid cooling on a phone, continuum, etc.)

    (Windows 10's app strategy and continuum both being contributors)
    10-11-2015 12:54 PM
  16. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Yes it is an old plan. I haven't installed Windows 10 on my 1520. And I haven't received any letters about tethering. As far as I know on my phone it isn't even possible unless I contact at&t and have them turn it on... for a fee, of course.

    And really it is irrelevant if the plan is new or old. If you tether without a tethering plan on at&t you are technically in violation of some random rule... whether you receive a letter or not.
    Yah this is what im referring to:

    Suspicious of tethering, AT&T threatens to kill man?s unlimited data plan | Ars Technica

    In Canada they give you data, and you can use it anyway you want. If you tether, that's your business.
    Ozone06 likes this.
    10-11-2015 01:00 PM
  17. Citizen X's Avatar
    Yah this is what im referring to:

    Suspicious of tethering, AT&T threatens to kill man?s unlimited data plan | Ars Technica

    In Canada they give you data, and you can use it anyway you want. If you tether, that's your business.
    Veering a bit off topic here but how much are the unlimited data plans up there? For me unlimited data is a $30 add on to my voice and text plan. If you are using wifi and a sensible amount of data the at&t mobile share plans with bring your own device aren't bad. But if you stream videos in non wifi areas that unlimited data comes in real handy. I was going to switch and add myself to someone else's share plan. My phone bill would have dropped by $50 a month to $15. But we would have been sharing 15 GB of data between three phones and a tablet.
    10-11-2015 02:43 PM
  18. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Veering a bit off topic here but how much are the unlimited data plans up there? For me unlimited data is a $30 add on to my voice and text plan. If you are using wifi and a sensible amount of data the at&t mobile share plans with bring your own device aren't bad. But if you stream videos in non wifi areas that unlimited data comes in real handy. I was going to switch and add myself to someone else's share plan. My phone bill would have dropped by $50 a month to $15. But we would have been sharing 15 GB of data between three phones and a tablet.
    There are some providers that offer unlimited data for dirt cheap if you compare to the big monopoly carriers. Wind gives unlimited everything for 40/month. You can get a 6gb/month plan for 25/month from public mobile which resells rogers the biggest carrier here. The big carriers do not offer unlimited. You can get 60gb on a share plan for about 360/month. These guys gouge you like no tomorrow. Some of the smaller ones get bought out by the big ones as well. There's quite a monopoly here amongst the 3 carriers and they usually give similar offers.

    Mobilicity gives unlimited everything for 45/month.. They run off the Rogers network. Rogers bought them out so these plans may change in the future, but thus far they haven't. But we do have a governing body here that would never allow any of the carriers to restrict tethering. You pay for the data and you do what you want with it.
    10-11-2015 02:55 PM
  19. Citizen X's Avatar
    But we do have a governing body here that would never allow any of the carriers to restrict tethering. You pay for the data and you do what you want with it.
    I understand restricting tethering on unlimited plans but anything else makes no sense. Even throttled LTE plans should allow tethering. If you buy a discrete block of data you should be able to use it any way you want.

    Wow. Unlimited everything for $40/month is impressive. Is that unlimited unthrottled LTE? at&t unlimited means unlimited LTE up to 22 GB or something like that then possible throttling can kick in if you are on a crowded tower. I don't think I've ever experienced throttling.

    I don't think we have anyone down here who gives true sky is the limit unthrottled LTE.
    920Walker likes this.
    10-11-2015 03:01 PM
  20. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I understand restricting tethering on unlimited plans but anything else makes no sense. Even throttled LTE plans should allow tethering. If you buy a discrete block of data you should be able to use it any way you want.

    Wow. Unlimited everything for $40/month is impressive. Is that unlimited unthrottled LTE? at&t unlimited means unlimited LTE up to 22 GB or something like that then possible throttling can kick in if you are on a crowded tower. I don't think I've ever experienced throttling.

    I don't think we have anyone down here who gives true sky is the limit unthrottled LTE.
    Not sure if it's being throttled. My brothers was never throttled even after 6gigs +. But again he never really went too crazy with the data. I can't see myself using much data on a phone. Maybe if im streaming netflix to a TV. But then I would rather just use my faster home internet connection.
    10-11-2015 03:10 PM
  21. colinkiama's Avatar
    I actually agree with Daniel on this one. These Lumias aren't the phones that the enthusiasts were waiting for. This was just a flagship so Microsoft could shut the whining windows phone fans up. The Surface phone is that metal premium device people have been dreaming about. I'm not saying the 950/950XL are bad devices (they are actually really good), however the phones that Panos Panay will work on will likely be way better than these ones. A 'Surface Phone'. A phone where Microsoft handles every bit of detail of the device, not just software while Nokia did most of the hardware part as prototypes.
    10-11-2015 05:50 PM
  22. tommybrrr's Avatar
    I think continuum and businesses customers are key to Lumia success. Those are to areas, where IOS and Android failed miserably, not only from a security stand point.
    10-11-2015 05:56 PM
  23. Marty89's Avatar
    Well, I remember when Daniel said that 830 won't have S400 a day before announcement. So I take his words with a grain of salt.
    10-11-2015 06:24 PM
  24. PachecoCorporationCeo's Avatar
    Well, I remember when Daniel said that 830 won't have S400 a day before announcement. So I take his words with a grain of salt.
    Don't remind me smh would've been better off with a SD 600 series SOC.
    10-11-2015 07:23 PM
  25. Jikangire's Avatar
    I, for one, am very impressed at what both the 950 and the 950XL can do! I will be getting a 950XL the day it's released!
    10-11-2015 07:25 PM
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