12-22-2015 02:56 AM
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  1. Artur Verdini Meireles's Avatar
    I always loved Nokia so I always had Nokia phones even when the first Iphone came out. I had both phones cause I live in a Mac ecosystem. I went for art direction school and I always used mac since I was 15, even before the Ipod came out.
    I have a Lumia 930 as my second phone and an Iphone 6+ as my main phone. I cant live without apps like Goodnotes and its only available on IOS. I use Goodnotes for everything: work, university and personal. Onenote doesn't even come closer to Goodnotes(In terms of note taking w/ stylus). I tried Squid(ex-Papyrus) for Windows Phone and its a joke!
    Anyway, do you guys think I will see decent increase in the photo quality between a 930 v.s. 950?
    10-13-2015 06:00 PM
  2. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Not sure yet, the phone is not in the hands of many people besides the reviewers... Once the phone is released then maybe we'll know for sure.

    The ICON/930, is not a true 20mb camera as it cant take a full 20mp picture, just a 15/16mb picture (don't remember the exact numbers), if the 950 can take a true 20mp camera, then it might be hair better.

    Anyway about it, the 929/930's camera is very impressive, if it's going to be better, maybe by a little, not by a ton.....
    10-13-2015 07:58 PM
  3. o4komodo's Avatar
    Not sure yet, the phone is not in the hands of many people besides the reviewers... Once the phone is released then maybe we'll know for sure.

    The ICON/930, is not a true 20mb camera as it cant take a full 20mp picture, just a 15/16mb picture (don't remember the exact numbers), if the 950 can take a true 20mp camera, then it might be hair better.

    Anyway about it, the 929/930's camera is very impressive, if it's going to be better, maybe by a little, not by a ton.....
    The 950 is not a "true" 20mp camera either. But Nokia has always made it clear that it's not about the MP.
    Especially when you consider Nokia (MSFT) use of MP. (oversampling, "digital zooming")

    Also this explains the use of megapixels and why it's not always 20mp or sometimes you get odd numbers like 8.7mp. In the new 950/XL's 20mp sensor's case we have 5mp (oversampled) + 16mp full images at a 16:9.
    And... get this... 5mp (oversampled) + 19mp full images at 4:3.

    (This picture is from the Nokia N9's camera where it was labeled as a 8.7mp vs an 8mp and is just for demonstration purposes. Same rules apply to the 950/XL. Thus giving the N9 a "true 8mp 16:9 photo")


    But the phone definitely takes better photo and video than the 1520/930/Icon. It focuses better and faster, has sharper imaging, better color and a higher depth of view.
    (I played with it in store to compare)
    Last edited by o4komodo; 10-14-2015 at 02:13 AM.
    10-13-2015 08:16 PM
  4. Doug Swallow's Avatar
    Of course, one should probably use the correct numbers when attempting to explain it. :)

    The Lumia 1520 sensor is 5376 x 3744 pixels so presumably that's likely what the 950 and 950 XL sensor also offers since both aare described as "20MP" sensors.
    10-13-2015 09:21 PM
  5. Artur Verdini Meireles's Avatar
    Of course, what? Of course the 950 camera is much better than 930?
    10-13-2015 09:30 PM
  6. Doug Swallow's Avatar
    Of course, what? Of course the 950 camera is much better than 930?
    Your post proceeded from talking about the 950 and 20MP cameras (specifically 'The 950 is not a "true" 20mp camera either') into a chart showing an 8.7MP image sensor which, along your text, seems an implication that you are saying the 20MP sensor really is only 8.7MP. I suggested you would be better to actually use the correct numbers for the sensor you're discussing (or perhaps mention the diagram is for a much lower resolution sensor) to show how the measure is made and how the sensor size isn't 100% the same as the image that is taken using it.
    10-13-2015 10:52 PM
  7. o4komodo's Avatar
    Your post proceeded from talking about the 950 and 20MP cameras (specifically 'The 950 is not a "true" 20mp camera either') into a chart showing an 8.7MP image sensor which, along your text, seems an implication that you are saying the 20MP sensor really is only 8.7MP. I suggested you would be better to actually use the correct numbers for the sensor you're discussing (or perhaps mention the diagram is for a much lower resolution sensor) to show how the measure is made and how the sensor size isn't 100% the same as the image that is taken using it.
    Think you quoted the wrong person.
    Sorry yes I should have wrote that it was the N9's sensor and it was just an example (I was assuming people would have assumed it wasn't the 950/XL camera). Fixed my post to clear any confusion :) Hopefully I worded it decently enough though.
    Last edited by o4komodo; 10-14-2015 at 02:15 AM.
    10-14-2015 01:38 AM
  8. batab's Avatar
    actually, they stated that the 95x sensor is a 16:9 native sensor. Moreover is a 1/2.4" sensor and not a 1/2.5" sensor.

    Hence it's a "completely" new sensor with respect to 1520 and 930/Icon.
    10-14-2015 03:50 AM
  9. travis_valkyrie's Avatar
    I'm really disappointed with the 930 camera sensors so I'm expecting the 950's to be better.
    10-14-2015 04:06 AM
  10. o4komodo's Avatar
    actually, they stated that the 95x sensor is a 16:9 native sensor. Moreover is a 1/2.4" sensor and not a 1/2.5" sensor.

    Hence it's a "completely" new sensor with respect to 1520 and 930/Icon.
    I'd like to say that (almost??) all phones are "natively 16:9". 4:3 is so old school (look at it, it's practically a square).
    We've switched to wide for a very long time. I remember really noticing 16:9 when I started using my Nokia N8. And that was released 5-6 years ago.
    10-14-2015 04:52 AM
  11. emigrating's Avatar
    actually, they stated that the 95x sensor is a 16:9 native sensor. Moreover is a 1/2.4" sensor and not a 1/2.5" sensor.

    Hence it's a "completely" new sensor with respect to 1520 and 930/Icon.
    If it truly were native 16:9 sensor you should get more than 16MP out of it - which you don't.

    I'd like to say that (almost??) all phones are "natively 16:9". 4:3 is so old school (look at it, it's practically a square).
    We've switched to wide for a very long time. I remember really noticing 16:9 when I started using my Nokia N8. And that was released 5-6 years ago.
    Personally I prefer 4:3 (well, actually 3:2, but that's not an option) for photos. And as long as you get more MP out of the phone by switching to 4:3 you'd be silly not to use it and if need be, reframe in post.
    10-14-2015 05:24 AM
  12. Chomiq's Avatar
    What's bad with 930's image quality? I mean, sure you can't expect it to be a beast in low light but otherwise it's a solid performer.
    18900399848_df3285ab57_k.jpg

    Sure 950 will be improvement over 930, but that's mainly due to improved OIS and brighter aperture (f 1.9 vs 2.4).
    10-14-2015 05:27 AM
  13. batab's Avatar
    If it truly were native 16:9 sensor you should get more than 16MP out of it - which you don't.


    Personally I prefer 4:3 (well, actually 3:2, but that's not an option) for photos. And as long as you get more MP out of the phone by switching to 4:3 you'd be silly not to use it and if need be, reframe in post.
    well you know, it's a reported spec everywhere (even on the official MS site) and they also said it. They may have said some BS or have reported some false camera specs but as soon as someone will take the sensor out and check it i will just believe to those camera specs.

    Also, those 16mpx may just be a software glitch or whatever. They may have not even have still adapted the software to the new sensor for what we know.
    josh715m likes this.
    10-14-2015 07:02 AM
  14. Artur Verdini Meireles's Avatar
    Bottom line: Do you guys think is worth/justify upgrading from a 930 to a 950 just because of the camera by itself?
    10-14-2015 07:03 AM
  15. Chomiq's Avatar
    Bottom line: Do you guys think is worth/justify upgrading from a 930 to a 950 just because of the camera by itself?
    No. You're still limited by the fact that's it's a smartphone camera. You'll probably notice difference in low light, but overall improvement over 930 won't be worth your money.

    well you know, it's a reported spec everywhere (even on the official MS site) and they also said it. They may have said some BS or have reported some false camera specs but as soon as someone will take the sensor out and check it i will just believe to those camera specs.

    Also, those 16mpx may just be a software glitch or whatever. They may have not even have still adapted the software to the new sensor for what we know.
    It's probably the same as 930's, 16mpx in 16:9, 19mp in 4:3 crop.
    10-14-2015 07:21 AM
  16. batab's Avatar
    No. You're still limited by the fact that's it's a smartphone camera. You'll probably notice difference in low light, but overall improvement over 930 won't be worth your money.



    It's probably the same as 930's, 16mpx in 16:9, 19mp in 4:3 crop.
    I know, it looks like the same if you only look at the mpx resolution you get within the camera app but as I said they already reported the official camera specifications: they said it's a 1/2.4", 16:9, f 1/1.9 sensor which is very different from the 1/2.5", ~17:12, f 1/2.4. Following the specs, the lumia 95x sensor should be roughly 5960x3354 while the 93x sensor is 5376 x 3744.

    I don't know why we should in no way trust the official camera specs. Also even if the lumia 95x it's not a 16:9 sensor, it's still a different one as it has different aperture and different size.

    Besides these facts, I'm not saying that 95x camera will be better than 1520/930/Icon camera as we obviously have no proof of this. Anyway, it's reasonable to expect better performances, in particular in low light scenarios where the older sensor struggled the most, which is a nice thing to have I'd say.
    10-14-2015 08:26 AM
  17. Chomiq's Avatar
    I know, it looks like the same if you only look at the mpx resolution you get within the camera app but as I said they already reported the official camera specifications: they said it's a 1/2.4", 16:9, f 1/1.9 sensor which is very different from the 1/2.5", ~17:12, f 1/2.4. Following the specs, the lumia 95x sensor should be roughly 5960x3354 while the 93x sensor is 5376 x 3744.

    I don't know why we should in no way trust the official camera specs. Also even if the lumia 95x it's not a 16:9 sensor, it's still a different one as it has different aperture and different size.

    Besides these facts, I'm not saying that 95x camera will be better than 1520/930/Icon camera as we obviously have no proof of this. Anyway, it's reasonable to expect better performances, in particular in low light scenarios where the older sensor struggled the most, which is a nice thing to have I'd say.
    Now here's a brain teaser - have you actually considered the fact that along with increasing the sensor size they also increased the size of the individual pixels on that sensor? So that increase in sensor size doesn't actually mean that the amount of pixels increased in same ratio as the size.
    10-14-2015 04:47 PM
  18. RJ Priest's Avatar
    The 950 series camera should offer clearly superior low light photos. That's the one area where we will see a very noticeable difference.
    10-14-2015 06:25 PM
  19. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    Interesting thread.
    10-14-2015 08:46 PM
  20. Tiago Nunes1's Avatar
    Still for the 950 to arrive to see if I stay with mine 1020 or replace it with a new 950
    10-15-2015 01:53 AM
  21. batab's Avatar
    Now here's a brain teaser - have you actually considered the fact that along with increasing the sensor size they also increased the size of the individual pixels on that sensor? So that increase in sensor size doesn't actually mean that the amount of pixels increased in same ratio as the size.
    no need to be offensive bro, i'm only reporting the official specs and i'm assessing a logical consequence of the different specifications. Obviously the device will need some accurate testing to see if the image quality is really better than its predecessor or not but this is another point. And by the way, my brain worked just ok for my mech. eng. PhD few weeks ago, so i guess it still does. Although i can say something stupid and wrong for sure, there are other way to express your different opinion i guess.

    Anyway, i know what pixel size is and i know that a 1/2.4" f 1.9 is much better in low light than a 1/2.5" f 2.4 both because the sensor size and the aperture. No matter how big is the pixel. If you are taking a photo at 5 or 8 mpx using over sampling, both the photos will have the same output resolution but the first is taken with a bigger sensor, hence one real pixel of the image will corresponds to a larger area of the sensor (and of course there is also the effect of the aperture). The difference should be even bigger if the photo is taken in a 16:9 format and the 95x series sensor is really a true 16:9 as the full size of the sensor will be used, something that does not happen for the 930 sensor.

    Oh and just to let you know, I'm using a Lumia 930 since day one and I'm in no way saying that the 930 sensor is bad.
    Last edited by batab; 10-15-2015 at 05:59 AM.
    10-15-2015 03:54 AM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    The 1.9 aperture worries me for the depth of field. I tend to take long shots of vistas quite regularly. More so than low light, no flash.
    jmshub likes this.
    10-15-2015 04:08 AM
  23. JPDVM2014's Avatar
    The 1.9 aperture worries me for the depth of field. I tend to take long shots of vistas quite regularly. More so than low light, no flash.
    Same here. I don't want bokeh and shallow depth of field in all of my shots. I'm sincerely hoping that MSFT puts the features from the refocus app into the camera app. It would help mitigate the problem (if it even is a problem) as long as you have a steady hand/tripod.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    10-15-2015 09:00 AM
  24. r2SN's Avatar
    I'm just hoping Microsoft is done with maximum shutter speed of 4 sec. Considering other android flagships "with manual controls" such as G4 which has max shutter speed of 30 sec, I think for windows flagships shutter speed should be increased (iso 12800 is quite a feat for mobile camera). Well if i compare my Lumia 730 to 925,1020,1520 and 930 which are a class apart all have max shutter speed of 4sec. What the hell??
    10-15-2015 09:24 AM
  25. Con Georgiadis's Avatar
    For your information i tweet @jalakarhu...the man behind Lumia 950 camera's
    and i asked some details.He told me the following
    1.max shutter speed is 4 sec.The reason? He said we didn't want to go higher because there be some quality tradeoffs.
    2.camera has a native 16:9 sensor
    3.the oversampled image is now 8mp.
    4.image quality is better than Nokia 808 and Lumia 1020.
    jmshub and r2SN like this.
    10-15-2015 10:05 AM
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