01-10-2016 02:30 PM
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  1. garyhartaz's Avatar
    Background: Developer, electronics engineer. All in as far as Microsoft goes.

    From the 920, to the 1520 and now this heaping pile, I can't believe the 2 steps back attitude someone at Microsoft has. Yes, I have many of the issues posted here and before any of you hardware engineers say it is a faulty device and swap it out, chill. If all of these issues are truly hardware defects, then this is one of the worst deliveries of defective goods ever!

    I still can't believe people have to revert to hard resets to address battery drain, etc. I can't think of one time I have had to do this on any other platform.

    The biggest thing that ticks me off about this garbage is the button placement. What ergonomic genius though it was a good idea to put the wake/power button in between the volume buttons? Why depart from the layout on the 950? I can't tell you how many times I push the wrong buttons and it has gotten to a point where I am simply just fed up.

    The OS is buggy. I still can't go directly to SMS messages from the lock screen, rather I have to stare at a black screen, press the back button then launch the message app. It's been this way for 4 releases now!

    Random reboots, camera saving wonkiness, and what in the hell is this Facebook app? It is the worst app ever! Is there anyone at Microsoft in the QA department?

    Let's talk about bluetooth streaming. Sometimes it is flawless then out of the blue audio will stutter like a CD is scratched. Hey Microsoft, it's ok to let your testers go to the parking lot to test this stuff out in real cars with real interference, etc.!!

    For $800, I expected a flagship phone and what I believe we all got is something in the 1/3 range. Yes, many of you don't have any problems at all *cough* and will want to tell me my hardware is bad but I know it isn't. About the only cool thing is Continuum and even then, getting the WiDi working was even a trick.

    SMH. Shame Microsoft shame! Whoever you are paying to QA and lead on this should be fired, seriously. Hire someone who cares!
    12-22-2015 09:08 AM
  2. maevinj's Avatar
    This guy apparently
    th.jpg

    You can tweet him @satyanadella
    12-22-2015 09:32 AM
  3. cnashx's Avatar
    I literally have none of the issues you have stated...
    And the ones that's that aren't software issues like the button placement? I actually like it...
    Also, use Facebook Beta, much better than the "Facebook" app.
    12-22-2015 09:34 AM
  4. Pete's Avatar
    Hi there.

    If you've been reading around, you may have realised that not everyone's experience of the 950XL is bad. However, the people who don't like it or are having issues seem to think it's the worst thing that's ever been released by Microsoft.

    Facebook is being re-written from the ground up and we're hoping to see something significantly better in the near future. Having said that, I don't really do Facebook as I don't really like seeing what my friends cat has vomited up lately...

    Yeah, rebooting phones is a fairly common occurrence to clear blocked processes, especially after an upgrade process, it's not really all that new. As you've mentioned "four releases", you're probably entered yourself into the fast ring, so you need to take a little more rough with your smooth there (being in software development yourself, you know that the first QA builds aren't the best). We're also first adopters of this new wave of hardware/software. You know how that goes as well.

    However, in your last statement, you're closer to the truth than you realise. Microsoft did indeed let go of an awful lot of great (ex-Nokia) people in the middle of development for these handsets (950 and 950XL). We're paying the price for that, but given those circumstances, Microsoft has (in my opinion) released an amazing device that will get only better over time (like the Xbox One went from awesome to even more awesome on an almost monthly basis).

    But, you're probably right and better off buying an Android or an Apple device. Apparently they're fantastic and never go wrong.
    12-22-2015 09:41 AM
  5. Gunbust3r's Avatar
    I'd venture to guess many 950's and 950XL's were built essentially by hand at the factory to meet the rushed release deadline. You've got that poor process control coupled with a questionable SOC that Microsoft may or may not be getting sloppy seconds binning on added to a beta OS and this is what we get. But of course Pete assures us everything is going to be just dandy and adds the dig that android and apple are worse over on that side of the fence.
    12-22-2015 09:59 AM
  6. excalibur1814's Avatar
    Yet some people are just using the device instead of finding issues.
    12-22-2015 10:16 AM
  7. garyhartaz's Avatar
    Pete,

    You have proved my points which is, the phone(s) in its current state is a beta device, not a commercial device. I paid for a commercial device that I did not have to babysit. I am on the insider ring and decided only after so many issues to take the plunge and go fast ring. So far, not much has changed from .0

    You write as if starting the Facebook app from the ground floor up is some monumental task and the reality is, it isn't. The basics don't even work which means sloppy code and or poor project planning. It is astonishing to use the mobile web browser version and actually see how much this poor Microsoft app is missing.

    Thanks for you keen grasp on reading my friend. I never said anything about going to Android or Apple. I am simply stepping back to my 1520 which is stable and for all intents and purposes, much better than the current state of the XL.

    I still can't wrap my head around the removable battery for this device given it has a stellar quick charge capability. Prying these phones open is risky business since you will have no case to protect it when you are almost guaranteed to drop it at least once while removing the cover at some point.

    It is a shame that Microsoft did not have the ability to keep the Nokia talent because this device would have never launched the way it did.

    Oh, rebooting phones? I have a Moto X gen 2 running latest Android and I never have had reboot out of no where. Certainly not 2 or 3 times per day either.
    theefman, slivy58, chezm and 13 others like this.
    12-22-2015 10:23 AM
  8. garyhartaz's Avatar
    Yet some people are just using the device instead of finding issues.
    I know, like making a call and the phone reboots. Just "using" the phone here. Have someone MMS you an audio clip and then say save as ringtone....watch what doesn't happen.
    12-22-2015 10:24 AM
  9. Pete's Avatar
    Pete,

    You have proved my points which is, the phone(s) in its current state is a beta device, not a commercial device. I paid for a commercial device that I did not have to babysit. I am on the insider ring and decided only after so many issues to take the plunge and go fast ring. So far, not much has changed from .0
    Being an early adopter is different to being a "beta tester". The same thing happens for many products when they first go to market.
    12-22-2015 11:27 AM
  10. Jaime Salas's Avatar
    Gary here is my advise.... Take back the phone and go get whatever "Works" for you. We get it... your not happy with it. Obviously you never bought a phone before that just came out with a new type of hardware and software. I was there at the starting of Android, trust me they had worse problems. I know what I am getting myself into.... it's called the forefront of new technology, and I am expecting to have problems, A lot matter of fact. It is something I am willing to deal with.I am sorry it isn't what you expected, but those of us who are making the switch from Android to WP10, we know what we are getting ourselves into, and we know that patience is virtue.
    Last edited by Jaime Salas; 12-22-2015 at 11:59 AM.
    maevinj, Hna, RumoredNow and 15 others like this.
    12-22-2015 11:41 AM
  11. slivy58's Avatar
    In all my years toying with PCs and other devices (Windows/Apple/Android/Linux) I cannot recall such a "backwards" movement such as MS has done w/W10M, reboots, resets, battery drain and so on should not be the norm and is indicative of a poorly implemented OS, I'm not seeing where W10M is such a scientific marvel over any other OS yet many use that to justify MSs shortcomings, the new hardware isn't really anything too ground breaking either especially when we're talking about that which controls basic functions/tasks.
    Last edited by Elky64; 12-23-2015 at 01:23 PM. Reason: formatting
    12-22-2015 12:33 PM
  12. snakebitten's Avatar
    Some folks are "amazed" at how horrible Windows 10 Mobile and\or the new 950(XL) is.
    And some folks are "amazed" at how awesome Windows 10 Mobile and\or the 950XL) is.

    1000 threads can be started and populated and it isn't going to change that.
    But I do get to choose whether I'm burdened to convince the other side to agree with whichever side I come down on.

    But I ain't going to. :)

    Fortunately we aren't beavers or oak trees. We aren't programmed to build dams or create acorns, with no choice in the matter.
    It's so liberating to know that I can choose!
    12-22-2015 12:49 PM
  13. anthonyng's Avatar
    You have proved my points which is, the phone(s) in its current state is a beta device, not a commercial device. I paid for a commercial device that I did not have to babysit. I am on the insider ring and decided only after so many issues to take the plunge and go fast ring. So far, not much has changed from .0
    On that note too, it's been said that the phone is for windows fans. Meaning it's really only for those that are willing to put up with some off things. I know you said you're all in on Windows but your expectations for w10m are not aligned with the current position of MS.

    I've had friends ask me about this phone from other platforms and I tell them it's nice, BUT, it's a work in progress. So they had better be willing to put up with weird things. At the same time, I tell them I feel like it will get better and better, so either understand that and deal with it or wait until redstone or something.

    For sure I won't recommend this phone to everyone but if they are willing to put up with a pretty good work in progress, go for it.

    You should probably return it while you can.
    12-22-2015 02:08 PM
  14. jmshub's Avatar
    Microsoft is listening. They are watching what is submitted to them via the Windows feedback app on your phone. No one at Microsoft is browsing Windows Central forums looking for people's complaining posts.
    12-22-2015 02:10 PM
  15. jhoff80's Avatar
    I find it ridiculous that so many people immediately assume that just because someone is posting about problems in a discussion forum (you know, to discuss them) that they haven't already posted in the Feedback app. Some of these bugs have been reported months ago, with hundreds of upvotes, with no improvement whatsoever.

    SMH. Shame Microsoft shame! Whoever you are paying to QA and lead on this should be fired, seriously. Hire someone who cares!
    Herein lies the real problem. The majority of them have already BEEN fired. One of Nadella's first big moves was to drastically downscale QA and testing departments in favor of the actual programmers who are working on it doing their own testing. It's one of those financial things that looks good on paper but we're suffering through the downside of it now. It leads to internal biases ('nobody will use that feature that way!') and potential time management issues (how much time do you spend on testing vs programming?), not to mention that testing and development are two different skillsets in the first place.

    Sure, now Microsoft has a lot more external users (Windows Insiders) testing, but we don't have access to the same kinds of toolsets that an internal tester might have, besides the problem of a drastically lower signal to noise ratio that the Feedback app exhibits (in comparison to internal testing).
    12-22-2015 02:20 PM
  16. theefman's Avatar
    Obviously you never bought a phone before that just came out with a new type of hardware and software.
    WP7, launched 2010. New software and new hardware, worked like a charm. Its biggest drawback was the incompetent company behind it who refused to allocate adequate resources to its development, culminating in the complete mess we have today.

    Sure, now Microsoft has a lot more external users (Windows Insiders) testing, but we don't have access to the same kinds of toolsets that an internal tester might have, besides the problem of a drastically lower signal to noise ratio that the Feedback app exhibits (in comparison to internal testing).
    In other words, the beta test isn't over, not by a long shot!
    12-22-2015 02:55 PM
  17. slivy58's Avatar
    On that note too, it's been said that the phone is for windows fans. Meaning it's really only for those that are willing to put up with some off things.
    Not sure where or when the term "Windows Fan" came into play, meaning in the context sense "we must now be willing to put up with idiosyncrasy otherwise the platform is not for you”, when I came back on-board in late 2012 I’m pretty sure that was not the sediment nor was it in the early stages of W10Ms evolving.

    I know you said you're all in on Windows but your expectations for w10m are not aligned with the current position of MS.
    And therein lies the problem, MS keeps changing the game to such a degree that the die-hard Windows Fans of the past are getting the short end of the stick and we're expected to "grin and bear it" or leave. Out of the four major players look who has been in the mobile OS business the longest, 2000(1996), and tell me it has progressed well. In my opinion W8.1 seemed to be the most promising with a favorable outlook for the WP platform, then MS dropped it like a lead balloon, sure W10M may be the next best thing but who's to say that won't come to an end in another 6 months, past history tells a story does it not?
    Last edited by Elky64; 12-23-2015 at 12:21 AM. Reason: formatting
    12-22-2015 03:03 PM
  18. DeathMoJo's Avatar
    I feel that Microsoft really had to do a reboot of Windows with 10. They built code and structured it around a universal system. That being said, many issues seem so basic and repeats because they built it on a new foundation. I agree that some of the 950 / 950 XL issues shouldn't exist because they are OS related. If Microsoft needed to backup the release of the phone they should have to give the Mobile OS more time to be ready. The reality of it is to see where the whole ecosystem of Windows 10 stands this time next year. I for one am excited to see the universal applications and the ecosystem as a whole.

    I for one haven't had too many issues with my 950 XL, nothing beyond some of the issues I would have with my LG G2 (Android) or the HTC One M8 (Windows). Battery life takes a hit but I find it mostly the screen that kills it. Standby time is great.
    snakebitten likes this.
    12-22-2015 03:26 PM
  19. revolvet's Avatar
    I felt the same, last minutes ago. I was a bit disappointed, or I expected too much from it. I went Microsoft Online Store and was about to request for return. I would to go NYC tomorrow to return at the store, and planned to buy iPhone 6s Plus instead. After doing some researches, I instead decided to keep Lumia 950 XL.

    I think that every phone and OS has its own downside. Besides apps, Lumia 950 XL is far superior than all other phones in the market right now. It just takes few more time to reach its capability. For now, Lumia is in a good shape.
    12-22-2015 04:33 PM
  20. anthonyng's Avatar
    Not sure where or when the term "Windows Fan" came into play, meaning in the context sense "we must now be willing to put up with idiosyncrasy otherwise the platform is not for you”, when I came back on-board in late 2012 I’m pretty sure that was not the sediment nor was it in the early stages of W10Ms evolving.
    ...
    And therein lies the problem, MS keeps changing the game to such a degree that the die-hard Windows Fans of the past are getting the short end of the stick and we're expected to "grin and bear it" or leave. Out of the four major players look who has been in the mobile OS business the longest, 2000(1996), and tell me it has progressed well. In my opinion W8.1 seemed to be the most promising with a favorable outlook for the WP platform, then MS dropped it like a lead balloon, sure W10M may be the next best thing but who's to say that won't come to an end in another 6 months, past history paints a story does it not?
    Yup it sucks, but from reading the articles on the main page, the huge Daniel Rubino and Jason Ward ones for example, it's all about another reboot, another new category creation, admission of loss in the current form to Android and IOS, finding another way in to get a stab at the 'mobile market'.

    No one said it's ok the way it is. No one even said you must buy this "incredible" phone :) I'm myself not content and I have complaints too.

    Now they want the windows fans who believe in it to help out, test their stuff, feedback what's important in attempt to shape it more into something people want. I also don't think direct comparison to how Android works or how IOS works is what microsoft wants to hear either as it doesn't necessarily matter about HOW but more they would like to know if something in place works and if it's nice to use that way.

    There are tons of complaints about UI that seem to be ignored, losing the design language of modern ui, pivots etc, but if they want to give everyone a one windows and one experience, moving towards this more html5 style of hamburger menus is really providing more consistency whether you're using something on website via firefox or an app. '

    Being completely different for the sake of something different didn't work out, so now they kinda have to give people similarity so it's easier to grab users, and maybe later introduce new changes when they're big enough to withstand some backlash without hurting too much (eg: ME, vista, Windows8)

    Bottom line, it's a phone. It works really well as a phone. Messaging works really well too and is stable. I get my emails and can read them. Woohoo! :) My photo's are nicer with each iteration of phone and good enough to catch my kids. I remote desktop a lot. I get mad at the phone's idiosyncrasies but when I get a chance, I would detail it in the feedback app.

    The way some people complain and attack the current state of affairs of windows mobile, it's really best for those to move onto the other platforms as it's not really worth being so angry about this kind of stuff :)
    12-22-2015 04:36 PM
  21. cracgor's Avatar
    Now they want the windows fans who believe in it to help out, test their stuff, feedback what's important in attempt to shape it more into something people want. I also don't think direct comparison to how Android works or how IOS works is what microsoft wants to hear either as it doesn't necessarily matter about HOW but more they would like to know if something in place works and if it's nice to use that way.
    Do you think that it might be a problem that they are trying to improve it with the small user base of windows phone fans as the test subjects? What I mean is if 100% of the 2% of smart phone users prefer the WM10 experience, that does not guarantee that it will appeal to the other 98%. I'm not trying to start an argument. Just reading what you said made me realize the flaw in what was said.

    The other thing someone previously mentioned regarding letting go nokia's product testers--Nadella seems like he is trying to replace product testers with paying customers. For some that might be fun, but honestly that seems like a strange business model to me. Somehow it seems unethical with the lack of consent to be a test subject. I unfortunately no longer have the energy for it.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-22-2015 04:53 PM
  22. Jaime Salas's Avatar
    I AGREE 100%... Well put Anthony!
    12-22-2015 05:03 PM
  23. Cache's Avatar
    ...I unfortunately no longer have the energy for it.
    Have you tried a hard reset?
    Captain_Eric likes this.
    12-22-2015 07:18 PM
  24. Captpt's Avatar
    I totally agree with Gary,
    Luckily MS screwed up my original pre order so i reordered for the second wave but after seeing all the issues being reported here I cancelled that order and decided to wait until early next year and see if MS got their act together with the 950XL..
    I do believe hardware is a big issue, I've been running Insider's W10 for a month on my 640XL and other then SMS notification from the lock screen going to the black resuming screen everything else is pretty much glitch free, BT with my Jeep GC has been great and battery life is practically what I had running 8.1 again making me think the battery life issues with the 950XL isn't the OS and background programs rather the phone itself.. If the 640XL had a nicer display and camera I probably wouldn't be looking at all ALTHOUGH I am starting to kick around the idea of picking up a 1520 and putting Insider's W10 on to get exactly where I want to be including a better display & Camera then I have now.. As I said weeks ago I refuse to put down $650 to be a beta tester, I just assume go with a older proven winner then a new not truly tested phone.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-22-2015 08:25 PM
  25. Shobin Drogan's Avatar
    Look at all the shining knights of windows mobile here to save the day and defend Microsoft till the very last breath.
    Windows 10 mobile is a gigantic mess, the OS, was delayed, and then delayed...and then when you think they couldn't delay it anymore, they delay it again.
    The fanboys keep telling everyone else to be "patient". Look at the top 4 trending posts right now, 4 of them are 950 complaints. What a joke.
    Microsoft is selling the 950 in stores now, a phone that fails to do the most basic tasks without crashing.
    And stop comparing WM10 to Android, android marshmallow had bugs but it wasn't as bad as W10M when it was new.
    Which btw lets not forget the fact Marshmallow was supposed to be out AFTER W10M since Microsoft announced they would've released the OS mid of THIS year.
    Right now, Marshmallow is already a stable OS, while W10M had almost 0 development progress since the announcement. WP8.1 wasn't this bad when new, especially not after 4 firmware updates. I'm curious to know how many employees do Microsoft really have developing W10M it must be less than 5 people. Or is it just Joe Belfiore, and since he took a vacation, the entire company shut down too?
    And also Feedback app? Do they need millions of users to tell them that their phone cant even do basic video capturing without getting an error message? COME ON.
    People who paid so much money for these flagships have all the right in the world to be mad.
    12-22-2015 08:56 PM
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