1. Adam Frix's Avatar
    Microsoft Rolls Out Firmware Update For Lumia 950/950 XL

    "These improvements are a welcomed announcement, but U.S. carriers seem to be slow to the punch, as we cannot confirm that AT&T or T-Mobile (the only two companies that currently support the Lumia 950 and 950 XL domestically) have deployed the patch as of yet. Microsoft noted that the availability of the firmware update may depend on your network service provider, ominously shifting responsibility to the carriers, which as of right now, seem to be lagging behind."

    I thought Microsoft's goal was to go the Apple route, taking charge of updates and not letting the carriers get in the way. What happened to that philosophy?

    I shied away from 950 family initially because of lack of T-Mobile-specific support and features. Now I'm glad I did.

    Microsoft owes the world an explanation, after that initial talk track and now this contradictory behavior.
    12-23-2015 06:05 PM
  2. jazzedmurf's Avatar
    If I'm remembering this correctly, I think that 90% of updates will circumvent any need for carrier approval, as they have nothing to do with the phones' radios. Firmware updates, however, may affect the phones' radios and need to be approved by carriers. Again, this may be entirely wrong!
    12-23-2015 06:08 PM
  3. ronaldme's Avatar
    Updates affecting radios will need carriers approval, that's what they said.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    12-23-2015 06:50 PM
  4. theefman's Avatar
    BS report as they aren't competent enough to know only ATT officially carries the 950, T-Mo has nothing to do with this update.
    12-23-2015 07:05 PM
  5. the-scotsman's Avatar
    What? This is a firmware update, not an Operating System update. These are two completely different things. They never ever said these would also bypass carriers.

    Firmware updates can affect radios, which is where carriers come in and may want to test their network on them first.

    So no one owes anyone an explanation.
    12-23-2015 07:06 PM
  6. anthonyng's Avatar
    well my carrier free 950xl has no new firmware yet, so it's not necessarily that......
    12-24-2015 12:51 AM
  7. rudypoochris's Avatar
    So then why is my unlocked 950xl not receiving the update? So many apologists for this product, it makes me sick.
    Adam Frix likes this.
    12-24-2015 01:15 AM
  8. jazzedmurf's Avatar
    All 950/XL's should now be seeing the OS update to .29, and those on the Insider Preview program should be seeing the next update (.36?). OS updates don't need carrier approval, as they don't mess with phones' radios. However, firmware updates have to be carrier approved if they touch the radios in the phones, which this update does, and it's been confirmed that European phones are seeing this update first in the roll-out, with we AT&T and unlocked US GSM users expected to get it soon.
    12-24-2015 01:45 AM
  9. Muessig's Avatar
    Microsoft owes the world an explanation
    No, actually Microsoft doesn't really owe you anything. Let's be realistic here what's likely happening is the firmware update on a device will affect the radio on your device, so will have to go through the carriers. Other os-only updates MS will take the input of carriers but it is MS that will actually decide when the update will be pushed out.
    the-scotsman and xandros9 like this.
    12-24-2015 04:32 AM
  10. Zolotoy's Avatar
    All 950/XL's should now be seeing the OS update to .29, and those on the Insider Preview program should be seeing the next update (.36?). OS updates don't need carrier approval, as they don't mess with phones' radios. However, firmware updates have to be carrier approved if they touch the radios in the phones, which this update does, and it's been confirmed that European phones are seeing this update first in the roll-out, with we AT&T and unlocked US GSM users expected to get it soon.
    Nope, no .36 in US.
    12-24-2015 04:38 AM
  11. Adam Frix's Avatar
    What? This is a firmware update, not an Operating System update. These are two completely different things. They never ever said these would also bypass carriers.

    Firmware updates can affect radios, which is where carriers come in and may want to test their network on them first.

    So no one owes anyone an explanation.
    "The new firmware, version 01078.00027.15506.020xx, features several improvements to the phone’s stability, performance, SD card support, automatic display brightness, camera issues and a fix for a 4K video problem that was causing stripes to appear while playing a video."

    So at absolute BEST, MS is guilty of wrapping up non-radio base functionality fixes--SD card, display, video playback bugs--with radio fixes that require carrier approval, causing the VERY delays that MS promised would not plague Windows 10 Mobile and later devices.

    But no matter what, this directly contradicts Microsoft's story of not too long ago:

    Microsoft will bypass carriers, push Windows 10 updates directly to phones | PCWorld

    yes, if MS says that "well, we have this update, and it includes non-radio functionality fixes, but we don't know when you'll get it, that's up to the carriers," then MS has some 'splaining to do with respect to their original story. The world is not just about security patches, especially not on a new phone like this.
    12-24-2015 04:57 AM
  12. the-scotsman's Avatar
    well my carrier free 950xl has no new firmware yet, so it's not necessarily that......
    So then why is my unlocked 950xl not receiving the update? So many apologists for this product, it makes me sick.
    Because it's rolling out in stages. Plus if you are enrolled in the Insider program, you won't receive it. No Insiders have received it yet. I'm guessing they don't want it to affect Insider testing, as they wont know if the firmware update or .36 update have caused the issues.

    Some people are just never happy, and feel like they are entitled to everything. Seriously, if you don't like it, buy an iPhone.

    All 950/XL's should now be seeing the OS update to .29, and those on the Insider Preview program should be seeing the next update (.36?).
    Nope, .36 was pushed out to all 950 XL devices.

    http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-now...50-xl-devices/

    People need to stop posting when they don't know the facts. It just confuses things even more.

    So at absolute BEST, MS is guilty of wrapping up non-radio base functionality fixes--SD card, display, video playback bugs--with radio fixes that require carrier approval, causing the VERY delays that MS promised would not plague Windows 10 Mobile and later devices.
    It's been a FEW DAYS, you CANNOT class that as a delay....oh my god, why are people getting so pissed with this? I work as a mod/admin on XDA, and I see less ******** over there with Android stuff than I've seen here in just a few days.

    This is a firmware update. Obviously the changes required are at a hardware level, and not achievable by OS update. There's more to firmware than radios. But it sounds like you think you know more than the Microsoft engineers right?
    Last edited by xandros9; 12-24-2015 at 08:05 AM.
    horseybob likes this.
    12-24-2015 05:27 AM
  13. Muessig's Avatar
    There's a certain sense of entitlement from Microsoft Mobile users at the moment that I don't think is really helping anyone. This is an update that will help your phone and it's not an update that you are entitled to get, but you're getting it anyway. Huzzah! Have a little patience and it's been described why this is involving carrier approval.
    the-scotsman and horseybob like this.
    12-24-2015 05:45 AM
  14. Adam Frix's Avatar
    Some people are just never happy, and feel like they are entitled to everything.
    Well, at least entitled to...what they were promised.

    Only an apologist would hyperbolize that into "everything".
    12-24-2015 07:40 AM
  15. Adam Frix's Avatar
    There's a certain sense of entitlement from Microsoft Mobile users at the moment that I don't think is really helping anyone. This is an update that will help your phone and it's not an update that you are entitled to get
    I wonder if you read what you wrote.

    Analyzed, what you wrote is "you're not entitled to get anything other than the phone as it was the day you bought it, skeezy bugs and all--and if MS or anyone else chooses to fix those bugs, that's a gracious benefit on their part that you should be THANKFUL for!".

    Got it.
    12-24-2015 07:43 AM
  16. rhapdog's Avatar
    This update that is "held up by carriers" so to speak, is firmware, as admitted by Adam Frix.

    "The new firmware, version 01078.00027.15506.020xx, features several improvements to the phone’s stability, performance, SD card support, automatic display brightness, camera issues and a fix for a 4K video problem that was causing stripes to appear while playing a video."
    Perhaps we need to understand what firmware is, since this is a firmware update.

    Firmware is the low level code that tells the Operating System HOW to talk to the actual hardware devices, like the camera, the GPU, CPU, Display, and it also includes Bluetooth, FM Radio, LTE, GSM, CDMA and other radio bands as supported by the hardware specific to a particular device. The 4K video problem was an issue with an error with the Windows 10 Mobile OS unable to properly communicate with the GPU, because of an error in the Firmware. Same with automatic brightness, SD card (hardware that needs firmware to communicate with it), etc.

    Firmware in a phone is like the BIOS in a Laptop or Desktop PC. The BIOS (Basic Input/Output System) contains the low level code that lets an Operating System talk to the actual hardware of the device. Without it, the OS cannot talk to the CPU, GPU, Storage, RAM, Cameras, or anything else that is hardware built into the system board. External devices that you plug in are different, and just require OS drivers. Anything built into the SOC and original hardware will require this low level code.

    So at absolute BEST, MS is guilty of wrapping up non-radio base functionality fixes--SD card, display, video playback bugs--with radio fixes that require carrier approval, causing the VERY delays that MS promised would not plague Windows 10 Mobile and later devices.
    You can't separate radios, SD card, display, GPU, etc. out of the firmware. Those things can't be handled by the OS, because the OS needs firmware to know how to communicate with those devices.

    But no matter what, this directly contradicts Microsoft's story of not too long ago:

    Microsoft will bypass carriers, push Windows 10 updates directly to phones | PCWorld

    yes, if MS says that "well, we have this update, and it includes non-radio functionality fixes, but we don't know when you'll get it, that's up to the carriers," then MS has some 'splaining to do with respect to their original story. The world is not just about security patches, especially not on a new phone like this.
    I notice the article is how Microsoft will push Windows 10 updates directly to phones without carrier intervention. That has not changed. All Windows 10 updates still go through without carrier intervention.

    However, Firmware, as explained above, is not part of the Windows 10 OS. Just like the BIOS is not part of the OS of a PC. You can use the same firmware on a phone, and boot either Android or Windows Mobile without changing the firmware. The firmware just helps one of those OSes talk to the hardware. It's like we saw HTC put out a Windows AND and Android version of a phone recently. If HTC needed to do a firmware update, it wouldn't go through the OS to do it.

    My laptop was not compatible with Windows 10 until I upgraded the BIOS from the Manufacturer. Even with Windows 8.1, I was getting the dreaded Blue Screen of Death rather frequently. I decided to test Ubuntu on it, and, guess what? It locked up and froze up frequently when doing the same types of tasks. Turns out, it needed the BIOS updated to fix the issue, and it wasn't Windows 10's or 8.1's fault at all. The BIOS was causing problems with how an OS, any OS, communicated with the hardware.

    People get confused with Microsoft updating firmware and/or OSes on Lumia phones. They don't get confused when getting an OS update or BIOS update on their computer. Why is that? Because the BIOS/firmware comes from the manufacturer, and the OS comes from Microsoft (if it is Windows). In this case, Microsoft is the manufacturer to update the firmware, and the OS provider to update the OS, but that doesn't make the two the same thing at all. Just because the pet store sells both Dogs and Parakeets does not mean the dog will be able to fly.

    Microsoft never made the promise to provide firmware updates without carrier obstruction. However, they did make sure that they were only working with carriers that promised to help and not hinder, which means I don't expect any of the 950s to get left out.

    Why aren't all the phones getting updated already? Microsoft rolls out firmware in waves, starting with a region at a time, slowly. This is so that if there are any further problems discovered in the firmware, it will affect a smaller number of people, and it can be corrected before continuing the roll-out.

    I hope that clears up some of the confusion.
    Last edited by rhapdog; 12-24-2015 at 08:29 AM.
    12-24-2015 08:16 AM
  17. Adam Frix's Avatar
    You failed to mention how the carriers were and are not involved with the marketing and selling of the 950XL. Sure, it works with the carrier (kind of) when you put the SIM card in--but that's not due to any specific action of the carriers. So why, if the carrier was not involved with the design and sale of the unit, is the carrier suddenly involved in deciding whether or not the user has a usable video playback device, for example?

    MS: "We produced and sold junk--sucks for you, thanks for the cash. Oh, it doesn't work for you? Don't blame us, blame your carrier."

    I love the fingerpointing that happens 6 months after the marketing team spews out, "our customers and their experience won't be beholden to the carriers".

    What's MS's story on the Surface things? Would you sit back and apologize for them if they said, "Oh, well, we didn't actually manufacture those; the bugs you see in your $4000 Surface Book have to be fixed by the people we outsourced the manufacturing to. Thanks for the cash, but we'll be on our way now. Don't call us."???
    Harrie-S and slivy58 like this.
    12-24-2015 10:48 AM
  18. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Seriously, Rhapdog's post should be a sticky note entitled "Why the firmware update requires carrier intervention".
    RumoredNow and rhapdog like this.
    12-24-2015 10:49 AM
  19. ronaldme's Avatar
    So then why is my unlocked 950xl not receiving the update? So many apologists for this product, it makes me sick.
    Because unlocked is not the same than carrier-free , also, the firmware updates for "non-carrier" devices depends on the approval of all carriers from the phone country because it can use sims from all carriers.
    12-24-2015 10:55 AM
  20. jlangner's Avatar
    Ok, so I am using an unlocked on T-Mobile. Does that T-Mobile has to approve or am I just waiting cause it is in waves.
    12-24-2015 11:05 AM
  21. Muessig's Avatar
    I wonder if you read what you wrote.

    Analyzed, what you wrote is "you're not entitled to get anything other than the phone as it was the day you bought it, skeezy bugs and all--and if MS or anyone else chooses to fix those bugs, that's a gracious benefit on their part that you should be THANKFUL for!".

    Got it.
    In effect yes. You purchase the phone with the software that is on it the day you bought it. If MS updates your phone with or without carrier intervention that is not something you are entitled to, it is something MS are doing in order to improve your experience. I can understand your frustration in what seems to be contradictions from MS but it's been explained to you exactly what is going on here.

    Any further discussion on this topic here would be circling, so in order to keep this thread as useful to the community as possible, closed.
    12-24-2015 11:22 AM

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