Proof MSFT hosed L950XL insiders

[KimRM]

You guys are still missing the point. I get what the fast ring is supposed to be. It comes down to commercial software development. I have been there and run teams of developers. The guys at MSFT have no clue.

1. We would give a dog food bowl to any developer who broke something in a build that went out the door. Clearly MSFT needs 10-15 dogfood bowls to put in developers cubes
2. They are not cherrypicking code from Threshold up to Redstone in a professional or timely manner. You don't fix something in Threshold and NOT immediately cherry pick it into Redstone. Software development 101 here folks
3. They MSFT, should have the best automated testing tools in the world, and crappy builds like the current should have never passed, let alone if anyone with MSFT phones in the development team actually unit tested the builds, they would have not shipped.
4. You NEVER fork the code and don't tell the user base, you would have thought they learned this lesson when the took the OFFICE platform and implemented the new ribbon, and killed the UI for everyone on older versions (you were probably too young for this event). Posting something in a blog is bogus. They have my email, send me an email about the pending FORK of the Fast Ring to Redstone, and give me a grace period to move down to the slow RING. You can not defend this action by MSFT so please stop. It would have literally taken them a 10 minute code fix and 5 minute mass email to the members.
5. They still have not even cherry picked the windows 8.1 features up to WP10 which is the biggest joke so far. What do they have like 5 developers working on this operating system?

The insider program is all about trying out code and collecting telemetry. The fast ring builds doesn't necessarily have the same features existing in threshold builds. It has the code MS decides just to actually test it. The insider program is not meant to be a progam were you get the fixes and features before the non-insiders. It's just a test-group for telemetry purposes.
You wouldn't join the fast ring to get better battery life.

 

[colinkiama]

If you stayed on the release ring or quit being an insider. You would have been fine. Over time the apps will update, firmware will update and it'll get better and more stable over time. For example contact history in the people hib was initially only for redstone then it trickled down to public release after a week or 2.

 

[mmcpher]

MSFT was on a decent run there for awhile, with new TP's bringing mostly refinements and less bugs than its predecessor versions. But like peashooter and others in this thread, the current Fast Ring release is a step back, presumably prefatory to two steps forward. I got lazy and just plowed ahead and updated without checking it out, and I likely would have taken the chance even knowing the level of new bugs, because I ALWAYS think I'm lucky and special and the bugs won't bite me.

Blackberry allowed users, at their own risk, to load beta OS's for years and years. Crackberry was and is great for running articles and long, detailed threads for each new release, and it was fairly easy to quickly assess the stability of new build and make an educated decision whether to gamble or not. It was easy to find where to look on Crackberry, and the latest betas bubbled to the top of the forums. Same thing here for us, but you have to look a little harder. We have a "Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview" forum. And there it is, a thread on .14291,

This is just one of those builds that can't be supplanted to quickly.
[h=1][/h]

 

[groady-ho baluzy]

Yes everything is MS fault. That's 1/2 the problem with the world today, no personal responsibility for our own actions, it's always somebody else fault.
I'm sorta old and not very tech savvy, just built my first computer ever and tried Android for the first time recently. I read and understood all the risks involved before joining insiders. After that it's all on me.
The complaining that goes on here @ WC is ridiculous, there's no reasoning or rational for 1/2 of it.
Maybe more people need to go to IOS where they are protected from themselves. Probably why Apple has such a following, people love to be told what and how to do things.

 

[beman39]

no one is saying EVERYTHING IS MS'S fault and your remark is ridiculous to say the least, BUT they dropped the ball on this release... you and others can't see that, then you're ALL in denial... sad to see you guys parroting the same nonsense just goes to show you have your heads in the sand! there has been some excellent examples in this thread and others of why they dropped the ball and some of you still don't get it or WON'T get it because you believe MS can do no wrong...it's sad really. It's like a parent who can't accept their child is flawed and has behavior problems and making excuses why this or why that for their child, but meanwhile the child is a wild brat bullying all the other kids on the playground LOL MS is NOT perfect and releasing beta crap is still crap no matter what label you wanna call it, and the programmers are NOT doing a good job! small MINOR problems I can see happening and does indeed happen of course, but the problems with this release just blows my mind and makes MS look like amateurs! that's the truth and you'all just got to deal with it! :winktongue:

 

[Mr Hyde]

so why not wait to release it when you have everything working properly? ...

Ok, if MS were to wait until everything was working then why have a fast ring, slow ring, pre production ring, or any ring? if everything is working shouldn't they just release it as a production build?

 

[duqjag]

I see both sides of the coin here. On the one hand, you do go into the fast ring eyes open knowing that there are risks in beta software. On the other hand, Microsoft should not release software that by way of hyperbole, bricks 98% of the phones in the wild. My issue is that I would expect that basic features would continue to be available such as being able to sync my band 2 with my 950xl. I was shocked upon learning this was not the case, and did not have an easy solution to roll back.

 

[Corwin_Amber1]

This is for one person on this thread. In line with the topic, the person will likely not know, that it is for her. I would speculate, that many or all of the others know exactly whom this is for Fun

Dunning and Kruger argued in their paper, ?When people are incompetent in the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it. Instead, like Mr. Wheeler, they are left with the erroneous impression they are doing just fine.?

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/?_r=0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

BTT, I still think that it is a great thing to have the insider program and that we should not let poorly behaving people take it away

 

[Krystianpants]

You guys are still missing the point. I get what the fast ring is supposed to be. It comes down to commercial software development. I have been there and run teams of developers. The guys at MSFT have no clue.

1. We would give a dog food bowl to any developer who broke something in a build that went out the door. Clearly MSFT needs 10-15 dogfood bowls to put in developers cubes
2. They are not cherrypicking code from Threshold up to Redstone in a professional or timely manner. You don't fix something in Threshold and NOT immediately cherry pick it into Redstone. Software development 101 here folks
3. They MSFT, should have the best automated testing tools in the world, and crappy builds like the current should have never passed, let alone if anyone with MSFT phones in the development team actually unit tested the builds, they would have not shipped.
4. You NEVER fork the code and don't tell the user base, you would have thought they learned this lesson when the took the OFFICE platform and implemented the new ribbon, and killed the UI for everyone on older versions (you were probably too young for this event). Posting something in a blog is bogus. They have my email, send me an email about the pending FORK of the Fast Ring to Redstone, and give me a grace period to move down to the slow RING. You can not defend this action by MSFT so please stop. It would have literally taken them a 10 minute code fix and 5 minute mass email to the members.
5. They still have not even cherry picked the windows 8.1 features up to WP10 which is the biggest joke so far. What do they have like 5 developers working on this operating system?

Redstone is about merging the cores. The kernel is changing and if you're a programmer you know that everything talks to the kernel. The goal is to merge it with breaking as little as possible then go back and fix the issues. Also major kernel changes will be sent out to insiders to see if it breaks anything out in the wild and why.

So likely they make a big kernel revision. They then test to see what was broken. Testers will then discover any bugs, report them back to development but also if nothing extremely bad happened during testing, let it out to be tested by all the different configurations out there. With that build comes a blog post of what is broken and you're free to do further testing for them. That's what insiders are basically. Free testers. So likely on the dev side they will review the bugs and prioritize and keep chipping away.

Edit: Just wanted to add that, a lot of delays are being caused because of the insider program. See if you have professional testers following rigorous test plans you get things done quicker than when you decide that people in the wild can do just as good of a job. It's a whole mess of data that MS has to go through. And people give some pretty poor feedback too. It's why they are changing the feedback apps so they can get more information rather than someone saying the word "not working" and everyone upvoting the feedback. But yah there's no denying it that we are testers. But the best part is I can leave anytime I feel it's not up to my standards. This is why I left redstone on my phone. I will probably not try it for a while. But instead of complaining and calling out MS. I made the choice to leave the program I voluntarily joined.

 

[peashooter14]

poopy...can you explain more about the Kernel changes or post a link.

Once again, as I yell from the rooftops. I get the insider program. I get the risks. MSFT just did a really poor job when they are throwing windows 95 fixes out to a user base, then switch to windows 2000 within 10 days and don't notify the user base effectively.

 

[Krystianpants]

poopy...can you explain more about the Kernel changes or post a link.

Once again, as I yell from the rooftops. I get the insider program. I get the risks. MSFT just did a really poor job when they are throwing windows 95 fixes out to a user base, then switch to windows 2000 within 10 days and don't notify the user base effectively.

Right now windows 10 mobile kernel is specifically made for interacting with the mobile phone hardware. Desktop has it's own as well as xbox. They essentially all have different code. The goal is so that they all use the exact same code. The kernel will be exactly the same across any device they support.

And honestly just go back to the stable branch if you can't handle it. Bleeding edge is not always about features. That's why I rolled back. I'm not going to take a hit on my day to day phone, especially with no real features for me to be excited about. I weigh the pros and cons of each build. If there's more cons then I don't use it. They are going slow and way behind. The testing groups are one reason, but they still have their software testers for visual studio and other things. I think Visual studio is their biggest focus right now, which is the gate to our app kingdom. The core kernel is obviously just as high priority as this is what will make make the whole UWP coding scenario that much easier and be able to exist in the fashion they want. I think they are behind and they are going to give us a lot of Hype at build so that people stay excited about this whole process. And I say hype because unless they speed things up it's going to take a while to come to fruition. Now if they mention a flood of apps during build that are actually going to come in a timely manner to keep us happy, then more people will buy the hype as reality.

 

[peashooter14]

I thought the Kernel work was already done with General Release of Windows 10, where they were all on the same?

 

[darth furious]

Wow, this thread is very wordy. I think OP should have never been on the fast ring. OP, that is your fault. You knew the risks of fast ring and accepted it when you joined. It sounds like you should have signed up for slow ring. Do a device recovery and join slow ring and stay there. It sounds like you would be much happier there and wait until Redstone is stable enough for the slow ring. I think this summarizes what people think and feel.

You clicked "ACCEPT" when you signed up for the fast ring that stated it can do all these things including damage your phone. You knew the risks!

 

[Laura Knotek]

Wow, this thread is very wordy. I think OP should have never been on the fast ring. OP, that is your fault. You knew the risks of fast ring and accepted it when you joined. It sounds like you should have signed up for slow ring. Do a device recovery and join slow ring and stay there. It sounds like you would be much happier there and wait until Redstone is stable enough for the slow ring. I think this summarizes what people think and feel.

You clicked "ACCEPT" when you signed up for the fast ring that stated it can do all these things including damage your phone. You knew the risks!

What you said is absolutely correct.

From Microsoft's Insider page:

Download and install the preview only if you

• Aren't installing it on your primary phone. If you have a backup phone, that's a perfect candidate for Insider Preview.
• Want to try out software that’s still in development and like sharing your opinion about it.
• Don’t mind lots of updates or a UI design that might change significantly over time.
• Really know your way around Windows Phone and feel comfortable troubleshooting problems, backing up data, or restoring your original operating system if something goes wrong.

We're not kidding about the expert thing. So if you think APN is a cable news network, Insider Preview may not be right for you.

With that, this thread is permanently closed.

 

[Laura Knotek]