08-22-2016 09:14 AM
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  1. rdubmu's Avatar
    I am thinking of purchasing a 950xl again. It is much cheaper on amazon than on Microsoft store. They have dual and single Sim 950xl, not sure which version works best with tmobile here in the US?
    07-31-2016 11:37 PM
  2. rdubmu's Avatar
    I basically want to find out the RM number, there is RM-1116 and RM-1085, there is probably more but want to ensure I buy the same version as at the MS store :)
    08-01-2016 12:25 AM
  3. aetneerg83's Avatar
    It is cheaper on Amazon because that version is the international version and comes with no warranty. If you want to take a gamble and have no warranty then go right ahead. I bought mine directly from Microsoft Store and mine had problems with static output on the 3.5mm jack so I sent it back for RMA replacement. I have the 950XL running on T-Mobile service.
    08-01-2016 12:43 AM
  4. PGrey's Avatar
    International has other implications too.

    I had a discussion with another member the other day, and we discovered that the international version is essentially "illegal" in most states in the US, given that it doesn't implement a UEFI value for preventing remote reset.
    They also doesn't have this feature, which is maybe interesting to some, but more interesting is that most states now require it, if the phone supports remote-erase.

    I'd try eBay if I were you, see if you can find an dual-SIM non-international variety (you probably don't want the AT&T version either, it's stuck on the old firmware, until if/when AT&T decides to update it).

    Edit: Almost forgot, but the version shouldn't really matter for T-Mobile, all these revisions support Bands 12 and 17, the new low-frequency and high-penetration ones that are important to AT&T and T-Mobile.
    08-01-2016 01:00 AM
  5. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    Originally posted by rdubmu
    I basically want to find out the RM number, there is RM-1116 and RM-1085, there is probably more but want to ensure I buy the same version as at the MS store :)
    RM 1085 is the single sim version, RM 1116 is the dual sim.
    08-01-2016 11:17 AM
  6. adebo's Avatar
    I am also running a Dual SIM from Microsoft store on TMO, no issues in first month and a half. Reception/coverage seems to be the same as iPhone 6S Plus for TMO.
    08-01-2016 01:19 PM
  7. lvalen91's Avatar
    Currently using a RM-1085 I got off ebay with T-Mobile. Works exactly like the Tmo One M9 I was using beforehand.

    It was a HongKong Single Sim, but I changed it to the Canda/US variant. So far it has the latest firmware and works fine.
    08-01-2016 03:01 PM
  8. PGrey's Avatar
    RM-1116 VAR NAM 4R CV, code: 059X505, this is the actual NA variety that you want, if you want the "real" US version.

    I don't think there was a single-SIM US variant, outside of the ATT model?
    08-01-2016 03:02 PM
  9. lvalen91's Avatar
    RM-1116 VAR NAM 4R CV, code: 059X505, this is the actual NA variety that you want, if you want the "real" US version.

    I don't think there was a single-SIM US variant, outside of the ATT model?
    059X7F5 - 000-US Popped up about a month ago. Single Sim North America model that hasn't been released, but the firmware/OS for it is on the servers.
    08-01-2016 03:09 PM
  10. PGrey's Avatar
    059X7F5 - 000-US Popped up about a month ago. Single Sim North America model that hasn't been released, but the firmware/OS for it is on the servers.
    Yeah, I remember when someone mentioned the firmware popping up. Not sure I see anyone producing a matching phone though, what market would it actually sell in, enough to bring it to market, get FCC sign-off, etc?
    08-01-2016 03:15 PM
  11. rdubmu's Avatar
    thank you all!
    08-01-2016 10:01 PM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Just because it has Band 12 doesn't mean it works on T-Mobile's spectrum. I had the single SIM 950 and it works on T-Mobile of course, but it's because it does so on Band 4. You need to have VoLTE as well as E911. As taken from T-Mo's support page:

    On T-Mobile, any device on its network with band 12 LTE data support must also support T-Mobile Voice over LTE services and E911.

    Devices compatible with Extended Range LTE - Spectrum Gateway

    libra89 likes this.
    08-01-2016 10:27 PM
  13. coolj40041's Avatar
    If you don't mind used, B&H has used 950 and XL for $399 each. That's where I got my white Dual Sim 950XL. Works great for the last 3 months I've had it!
    libra89 likes this.
    08-01-2016 10:27 PM
  14. PGrey's Avatar
    Just because it has Band 12 doesn't mean it works on T-Mobile's spectrum. I had the single SIM 950 and it works on T-Mobile of course, but it's because it does so on Band 4. You need to have VoLTE as well as E911. As taken from T-Mo's support page:

    On T-Mobile, any device on its network with band 12 LTE data support must also support T-Mobile Voice over LTE services and E911.

    Devices compatible with Extended Range LTE - Spectrum Gateway

    Read above, I posted about this.
    It has the correct spectrum/frequency support, which I explicitly tested for, on 12. Really it has support for almost any carrier in the US, except Verizon, and probably most overseas couriers too, it's got a really wide-range built-in.
    I got close to 50mbps, in this test, using ONLY 12.

    VoLTE isn't a factor in any of this, it's a way to enable voice/text, over a pure LTE data stream. No US carriers support this for the 950XL, currently, they only support branded Windows phones, unfortunately (for now, hopefully this will change).

    Edit: I see why the VoLTE statement figures in, and *maybe* it's a factor, but I'm suspicious. This site isn't a T-Mobile one, and I don't know how much of this data is verified?
    Anyway, while I got screaming fast data on band 12, with my 950XL, I don't know if I tried voice (not LTE obviously) when I was experimenting. So, maybe, possibly, it's a factor, if T-Mobile ONLY allows data (the VoLTE part) on 12.
    Edit#2: I found a more "familiar" link: http://www.tested.com/tech/564027-ho...d-phone-draft/
    Anyway, if this is right, then voice on Band12 won't be possible on T-Mobile, which is a pretty bum deal, since that's where almost all their expansion is, and it seems where it's planned as well.

    Currently, T-Mobile isn't allowing VoLTE on any non-branded Windows phones, in the US. Hence, they are effectively "locking out" any devices that implement the band, where people want to BYOD.
    They're becoming reasonably friendly to non-branded devices for Android, but apparently Windows just gets ditched.
    That said, fatclue_98 I apologize, I see now why the LTE IS a factor, if an odd one. And I also see why I won't be switching back to T-Mobile anytime soon, given this policy/implementation.
    How bizarre, I really didn't expect to figure this out tonight, digging around.

    All of the US carriers suck, now it's just a matter of figuring out which is least bad, for your locale. Good !#@% luck ;-]
    Last edited by PGrey; 08-01-2016 at 11:20 PM.
    libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    08-01-2016 11:05 PM
  15. PGrey's Avatar
    Bottom line on my Band 12 post:
    - It worked great for T-Mobile data, mine was crazy-fast, not sure if I tested voice though (I don't have active TMo anymore)
    - It probably won't work for voice/SMS text, so make sure you have a good (unless you're somewhere outside of the US where wifi call/text is supported) VOIP app, in case you can't make a regular phone call (if you only have band 12 connectivity)
    - Someone should figure out how to petition our darn carriers, to get them to provision VoLTE on our phones, so we're able to use ALL the features we're paying for. I'd jump in, if someone can figure out how to get it started...

    Oh yeah, and most importantly, apologies to fatclue_98, for jumping the gun a little, my bad there.
    To be maybe a little fair though, data does work really, really well, on band 12.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    08-02-2016 12:58 AM
  16. slyronit's Avatar
    Bottom line on my Band 12 post:
    - It worked great for T-Mobile data, mine was crazy-fast, not sure if I tested voice though (I don't have active TMo anymore)
    - It probably won't work for voice/SMS text, so make sure you have a good (unless you're somewhere outside of the US where wifi call/text is supported) VOIP app, in case you can't make a regular phone call (if you only have band 12 connectivity)
    - Someone should figure out how to petition our darn carriers, to get them to provision VoLTE on our phones, so we're able to use ALL the features we're paying for. I'd jump in, if someone can figure out how to get it started...

    Oh yeah, and most importantly, apologies to fatclue_98, for jumping the gun a little, my bad there.
    To be maybe a little fair though, data does work really, really well, on band 12.
    Unfortunately, as I figured out the hard way, it is not only carriers blocking VoLTE. Current situation is

    1. Some carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T) block VoLTE calls from non-branded phones
    2. None of the non-branded Lumia phones have VoLTE enabled either, so even if your carrier was to enable this, your phone wouldn't even show this option.

    I am in India, my carrier supports VoLTE for all phones, but my 950XL DS does not support VoLTE. None of the Dual Sim variants have VoLTE enabled at all. Some Single sim carrier branded variants have VoLTE enabled (EE UK), which can be used with any carrier supporting VoLTE openly.

    SInce I have the Dual SIm version, there's no way for me to use VoLTE anywhere. If I had the single SIM version, I would have flashed the EE UK ROM and enabled VoLTE with my carrier.
    08-02-2016 07:35 AM
  17. libra89's Avatar
    Bottom line on my Band 12 post:
    - It worked great for T-Mobile data, mine was crazy-fast, not sure if I tested voice though (I don't have active TMo anymore)
    - It probably won't work for voice/SMS text, so make sure you have a good (unless you're somewhere outside of the US where wifi call/text is supported) VOIP app, in case you can't make a regular phone call (if you only have band 12 connectivity)
    - Someone should figure out how to petition our darn carriers, to get them to provision VoLTE on our phones, so we're able to use ALL the features we're paying for. I'd jump in, if someone can figure out how to get it started...

    Oh yeah, and most importantly, apologies to fatclue_98, for jumping the gun a little, my bad there.
    To be maybe a little fair though, data does work really, really well, on band 12.
    In my experience, you are correct. Data is just fine on Band 12 in my experiences with the Lumia 550, and BLU Win HD LTE. When I have made calls on them, it just drops from LTE to 4G to make the call (and while it is in progress).
    VoLTE is not a personal make or break for me, even though it is nice. I have a Nextbit Robin that has it, but no Wifi calling. I thought that it was a deal breaker for me, but it really isn't one. I have never been in a place where they only use band 12 exclusively so receiving calls + texts isn't really challenging.
    08-02-2016 07:49 AM
  18. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Guys, don't forget that VoLTE is only half the equation. The device needs to also have E911 registered. Voice over data without the ability to call for police/ambulance is a no-go in the US.
    08-02-2016 09:46 AM
  19. PGrey's Avatar
    Fatclue_98, I'm struggling a little, to understand (partly because I don't know about all the E911 rules).
    Are you saying VoLTE is an issue because E911 isn't registered for LTE voice, so the carriers are unable to enable the feature, without being non-compliant?
    Data is okay, but if they allowed calling (VoLTE in this case), E911 isn't properly set up, so they'd be in violation?
    Sorry, realizing I used too many double-negatives, but I think/hope my question is clear enough.
    Thanks for clarifying.
    08-02-2016 01:32 PM
  20. PGrey's Avatar
    Unfortunately, as I figured out the hard way, it is not only carriers blocking VoLTE. Current situation is

    1. Some carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T) block VoLTE calls from non-branded phones
    2. None of the non-branded Lumia phones have VoLTE enabled either, so even if your carrier was to enable this, your phone wouldn't even show this option.

    I am in India, my carrier supports VoLTE for all phones, but my 950XL DS does not support VoLTE. None of the Dual Sim variants have VoLTE enabled at all. Some Single sim carrier branded variants have VoLTE enabled (EE UK), which can be used with any carrier supporting VoLTE openly.

    SInce I have the Dual SIm version, there's no way for me to use VoLTE anywhere. If I had the single SIM version, I would have flashed the EE UK ROM and enabled VoLTE with my carrier.
    Interesting, so you're saying even with a dual-SIM, in the UK, say on EE, you wouldn't be able to get WiFi calling enabled (the SIM option wouldn't be there), whereas if you had a 950 single-SIM, and moved the SIM over, it would work fine?
    In that case, it would fall back to MS, most likely, and having something not properly implemented on VoLTE, for dual-SIM?
    What a hairball, I think we need a table, to track this ;-]
    08-02-2016 01:35 PM
  21. PGrey's Avatar
    Guys, don't forget that VoLTE is only half the equation. The device needs to also have E911 registered. Voice over data without the ability to call for police/ambulance is a no-go in the US.
    How do all the VOIP services get away with this, do they just block 911 calls? I have both Viber and Skype installed, but pretty much just use Viber, while I wait for WiFi calling/texting, but have (fortunately) never made a 911 call over VOIP.
    I tried Google Voice, for awhile, but it's obviously set up to NOT work well on the Windows Mobile OS, I suspect Google has some "features" in their mobile site.
    Edit: found this: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...nd-911-service
    Reading it, this sounds like ALL VOIP services must provide E911, and must also do their "best" to obtain/maintain location for E911, and inform users that E911 may not work correctly at times, in terms of location.
    Wouldn't VoLTE fall into the same "bucket"?
    08-02-2016 01:38 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    How do all the VOIP services get away with this, do they just block 911 calls? I have both Viber and Skype installed, but pretty much just use Viber, while I wait for WiFi calling/texting, but have (fortunately) never made a 911 call over VOIP.
    I tried Google Voice, for awhile, but it's obviously set up to NOT work well on the Windows Mobile OS, I suspect Google has some "features" in their mobile site.
    Edit: found this: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...nd-911-service
    Reading it, this sounds like ALL VOIP services must provide E911, and must also do their "best" to obtain/maintain location for E911, and inform users that E911 may not work correctly at times, in terms of location.
    Wouldn't VoLTE fall into the same "bucket"?

    You may want to peruse this article. It seems you're assuming VoLTE and VoIP are one and the same.

    https://www.shoretel.com/blog/differ...voip-and-volte
    08-02-2016 01:57 PM
  23. PGrey's Avatar
    You may want to peruse this article. It seems you're assuming VoLTE and VoIP are one and the same.

    https://www.shoretel.com/blog/differ...voip-and-volte
    No, not at all. I have two VOIP services on my 950XL (three if you count the mobile browser based GV one, which barely works).

    I don't have VoLTE, obviously.

    Although, if I make a VOIP call, say through Viber, and I'm on an LTE data connection, it's arguably the same, data-wise, just not routed by my primary cell carrier phone number...

    Am I missing something here?
    08-02-2016 04:21 PM
  24. slyronit's Avatar
    Slight change

    with a dual-SIM, in the UK, say on EE, you wouldn't be able to get WiFi calling enabled (the SIM option wouldn't be there), whereas if you had a 950 single-SIM, and moved the SIM over "and flashed the EE-UK firmware" , it would work fine.
    08-03-2016 01:30 AM
  25. slyronit's Avatar
    No, not at all. I have two VOIP services on my 950XL (three if you count the mobile browser based GV one, which barely works).

    I don't have VoLTE, obviously.

    Although, if I make a VOIP call, say through Viber, and I'm on an LTE data connection, it's arguably the same, data-wise, just not routed by my primary cell carrier phone number...

    Am I missing something here?
    Yes, the point is not IP to IP calls, but IP to PSTN calls. Your local regulation requires that if you are providing IP to PSTN services, you should allow calls to emergency numbers, too.
    08-03-2016 02:09 AM
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