08-07-2017 01:58 PM
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  1. TgeekB's Avatar
    What exactly does a 'surface phone' really offer that people need?
    That's a good question. I see it as just the next generation of mobile and will probably start out as an enterprise offering well before Consumer's are interested.
    That doesn't mean the current mobile platform still doesn't have room to grow. That's where I wonder what MS's plans are. Just security updates or advancements? They can't fall behind any more.
    libra89 and travisel like this.
    06-17-2017 11:36 AM
  2. Kot Prada's Avatar
    So for you MS doesn't have to advance mobile at all, correct? No need for a surface phone, just security updates to the current OS.
    As long as you realize you are in the minority.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Nothing bad in being in minority. Champions are in minority... Billionaires are in minority... etc.

    About the rest - just read last Tim Cook's comments about absence of innovations in Apple products ;)
    travisel likes this.
    06-17-2017 04:31 PM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    Nothing bad in being in minority.

    About the rest - just read last Tim Cook's comments about absence of innovations in Apple products ;)
    All I know is, side by side, anyone can see the iPhone is more innovative than Windows mobile. Apps, smart devices, etc. You'd probably have to say Android is more innovative than both because it's open source. It doesn't have the control iOS does.
    The good thing, depending on your needs, there's a device that works for most people. Choice is always a good thing!
    PerfectReign and travisel like this.
    06-17-2017 04:36 PM
  4. Kot Prada's Avatar
    All I know is, side by side, anyone can see the iPhone is more innovative than Windows mobile. Apps, smart devices, etc. You'd probably have to say Android is more innovative than both because it's open source. It doesn't have the control iOS does.
    The good thing, depending on your needs, there's a device that works for most people. Choice is always a good thing!
    I totally disagree with You on all points: for me, MS is far ahead of iOS and Android.
    06-18-2017 06:08 AM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    I totally disagree with You on all points: for me, MS is far ahead of iOS and Android.
    Yeah I'm generally with you on that. Saving for "handoff" (which really is timeline for less devices, sooner than MSFT has released timeline -that said, the features have differences), things like answering texts whilst driving in the car, inline replies, live tiles, vertical scrolling, notifications on your desktop, continuum - AFAIK that stuff is all stuff either only win10m has, or MSFT did first (I believe the next version of android will copy inline replies).

    Having just come to the platform, all the handy tricks, I'm surprised MSFT doesn't get more praise for their mobile efforts. It's fairly comprehensively "different" in many innovative ways.

    In fact I am not sure I can say much in iOS is innovative. Fluid computing was kind of the only thing I can think of. Great move for sure, but most of what apple does, is really just same old stuff everyone else is doing, or has already done, with higher margins and more spent on advertising.
    Doug_M, Kot Prada and travisel like this.
    06-18-2017 07:01 AM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    Yeah I'm generally with you on that. Saving for "handoff" (which really is timeline for less devices, sooner than MSFT has released timeline -that said, the features have differences), things like answering texts whilst driving in the car, inline replies, live tiles, vertical scrolling, notifications on your desktop, continuum - AFAIK that stuff is all stuff either only win10m has, or MSFT did first (I believe the next version of android will copy inline replies).

    Having just come to the platform, all the handy tricks, I'm surprised MSFT doesn't get more praise for their mobile efforts. It's fairly comprehensively "different" in many innovative ways.

    In fact I am not sure I can say much in iOS is innovative. Fluid computing was kind of the only thing I can think of. Great move for sure, but most of what apple does, is really just same old stuff everyone else is doing, or has already done, with higher margins and more spent on advertising.
    Good points, thought many of them are not exclusive to MS. For instance, iPhone has live tiles but you swipe left to see them. I actually like it better because its a much cleaner look on your home page. That's one thing that bothers me with W10, the home page looks cluttered.
    Innovation is truly in the eye of the beholder. I see it as things most people would find useful. Continuum is entirely innovative but how many people would use it? Maybe in the future if things change but not today. I think MS has to build relationships with other companies so accessories, etc. can be made to work with their devices. This is where Apple and Google excel. For instance, I have a Honeywell wireless thermostat that I can control from anywhere with my iPhone (I wish it worked with my Idol4s also). Last week we were out and it got hotter than we thought it would. I have 2 dogs at home so while we were out I was able to adjust my thermostat accordingly. I can also turn certain lights on when I'm away if it gets dark so it looks like someone is home. Those are the types of useful things I'm speaking about. MS had the band smartwatch and then dropped it. People love those types of devices. Its not just about the phone but the ecosystem build around it. MS has so much potential but have yet to make use of it. You can have all the potential in the world but what good is it if it doesn't have real life implications?
    Great conversation by the way. I love talking about these things and appreciate your input.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Last edited by TgeekB; 06-18-2017 at 08:47 AM.
    nick popplewell and travisel like this.
    06-18-2017 08:28 AM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Good points, thought many of them are not exclusive to MS. For instance, iPhone has live tiles but you swipe left to see them. I actually like it better because its a much cleaner look on your home page. That's one thing that bothers me with W10, the home page looks cluttered.
    Innovation is truly in the eye of the beholder. I see it as things most people would find useful. Continuum is entirely innovative but how many people would use it? Maybe in the future if things change but not today. I think MS has to build relationships with other companies so accessories, etc. can be made to work with their devices. This is where Apple and Google excel. For instance, I have a Honeywell wireless thermostat that I can control from anywhere with my iPhone (I wish it worked with my Idol4s also). Last week we were out and it got hotter than we thought it would. I have 2 dogs at home so while we were out I was able to adjust my thermostat accordingly. I can also turn certain lights on when I'm away if it gets dark so it looks like someone is home. Those are the types of useful things I'm speaking about. MS had the band smartwatch and then dropped it. People love those types of devices. Its not just about the phone but the ecosystem build around it. MS has so much potential but have yet to make use of it. You can have all the potential in the world but what good is it if it doesn't have real life implications?
    Great conversation by the way. I love talking about these things and appreciate your input.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Yeah its a shame most hardware makers make smart devices based on marketshare, so the compatible wearable and smarthome devices selection is limited with win10m. You basically have to buy your devices to match the phone....

    I'm not sure though smart connected devices are really that popular. Fitbit type devices are. Smartwatches barely hold on. Smarthome stuff is pretty much for enthusiast so far. They are a little like smart assistants, DeX or continuum - great ideas, great potential, but largely a gimmick outside of a few applications. It will grow though, all those things will grow over time. VR/AR is still pretty niche too. If anything "catches fire" like the smartphone, its hard to guess exactly what it might be.

    It has to be something where people feel they are missing out on a deep benefit, or an experience I think.

    MSFT could use a TV system I think. Their smart homehub will be good news, and the extra connectivity they are working on for the invoke. At least connectivity is something they are working on, but from a market POV, they have to work twice as hard. I am sure homehub will be a great deal better than any current smarthome hub device, but even if they advertised it intensively, they might struggle to get the attention with it it likely will deserve.

    People forget that about MSFT. They are big in consoles, big with gamers, big with enterprise and have brand recognition on the surface, and windows. But outside of that everything they do is somewhat invisible (which yes, is partly marketing and them not doing enough, but its also a branding issue they are working to resolve, as "the pc company", rather than the active innovators they are now)
    travisel likes this.
    06-18-2017 09:41 AM
  8. TgeekB's Avatar
    Yeah its a shame most hardware makers make smart devices based on marketshare, so the compatible wearable and smarthome devices selection is limited with win10m. You basically have to buy your devices to match the phone....

    I'm not sure though smart connected devices are really that popular. Fitbit type devices are. Smartwatches barely hold on. Smarthome stuff is pretty much for enthusiast so far. They are a little like smart assistants, DeX or continuum - great ideas, great potential, but largely a gimmick outside of a few applications. It will grow though, all those things will grow over time. VR/AR is still pretty niche too. If anything "catches fire" like the smartphone, its hard to guess exactly what it might be.

    It has to be something where people feel they are missing out on a deep benefit, or an experience I think.

    MSFT could use a TV system I think. Their smart homehub will be good news, and the extra connectivity they are working on for the invoke. At least connectivity is something they are working on, but from a market POV, they have to work twice as hard. I am sure homehub will be a great deal better than any current smarthome hub device, but even if they advertised it intensively, they might struggle to get the attention with it it likely will deserve.

    People forget that about MSFT. They are big in consoles, big with gamers, big with enterprise and have brand recognition on the surface, and windows. But outside of that everything they do is somewhat invisible (which yes, is partly marketing and them not doing enough, but its also a branding issue they are working to resolve, as "the pc company", rather than the active innovators they are now)
    I'm not sure how popular smart devices are in the public, but there are a lot of them available especially over the last couple of years which tells me they're catching on. I don't see it as a gimmick at all. I mentioned a couple applications but I also just ordered a wireless HD 350 degree security camera that has night vision and audio. It detects motion and has door/window sensors. If activated it sends a notification to your smartphone while recording video. Could prevent a break in which is extremely useful. Of course that's dependent on where you live.
    Wearable are much bigger right now. Home hub is the future and I think will be huge eventually.
    As you mentioned, MS has a branding problem and its hard to get other companies to work with you on things they don't see you as strong in. It will take time but I hope, if persistent, they will break through. They need to learn from Apple and Google who have done a much better job in this area.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    travisel likes this.
    06-18-2017 09:59 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'm not sure how popular smart devices are in the public, but there are a lot of them available especially over the last couple of years which tells me they're catching on. I don't see it as a gimmick at all. I mentioned a couple applications but I also just ordered a wireless HD 350 degree security camera that has night vision and audio. It detects motion and has door/window sensors. If activated it sends a notification to your smartphone while recording video. Could prevent a break in which is extremely useful. Of course that's dependent on where you live.
    Wearable are much bigger right now. Home hub is the future and I think will be huge eventually.
    As you mentioned, MS has a branding problem and its hard to get other companies to work with you on things they don't see you as strong in. It will take time but I hope, if persistent, they will break through. They need to learn from Apple and Google who have done a much better job in this area.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Yeah, those security systems might be the most popular application. I see a lot of wireless security camera systems in tech stores. A lot of techs are still nascent, smarthome included. Time they will grow.

    I guess everyone knows smarthomes will get bigger, VR/AR will definitely get bigger, wearables will get bigger, Ai and assistants will get bigger. Hence why they are all investing. It's hard to know how fast they will grow. Lot of people thought smartwatches would be big, but it was fitness bands. The smartwatches just weren't quite the right combination of powerful and small, and the fitness bands did the basics people wanted - notifications, heart rate etc. Smartwatches will get there though.

    It's a bit like VR, VR still has a ways to go, before its perfect for consumers. Smarthomes could probably use more AI, to be really useful - automatically identifying intruders breaking in, or an attack, and notifying police for example. Or recognising people and offering them playlists, or mood lighting. It needs that seemless quality, where it does stuff on its own, like the security camera you mentioned, and there's less monitoring or management. A hub where everything can be controlled like the home hub is a good start, like the mixing pad of the home.

    It need that seemless AI quality, proactive, like the house KNOWS I want to chill, so it provides dimmer lighting and puts on a classical and ambient playlist. I pray to god however, people still know how to operate a switch in the future :P
    06-18-2017 10:35 AM
  10. Kot Prada's Avatar
    I'm not sure how popular smart devices are in the public, but there are a lot of them available especially over the last couple of years which tells me they're catching on. I don't see it as a gimmick at all. I mentioned a couple applications but I also just ordered a wireless HD 350 degree security camera that has night vision and audio. It detects motion and has door/window sensors. If activated it sends a notification to your smartphone while recording video. Could prevent a break in which is extremely useful. Of course that's dependent on where you live.
    Wearable are much bigger right now. Home hub is the future and I think will be huge eventually.
    As you mentioned, MS has a branding problem and its hard to get other companies to work with you on things they don't see you as strong in. It will take time but I hope, if persistent, they will break through. They need to learn from Apple and Google who have done a much better job in this area.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Yes, MS has problems with marketing and branding. That's why MS flagship, which is times more useful, than Google and Apple analog, is mine for $279.

    So, I'm pretty glad they have that problems. Otherwise, I would have literally... (OK, insert some bad words here) for almost thousand $ (I hope You read that Cook's interview I've send You to).

    Yes, Apple is guru in marketing. I say that as professional economist. Because, only bunch of geniuses could force people to buy such ridiculous devices for that price.

    BTW, to be honest, it's obviously something wrong with people around: they spend tons of money for **** like Android and iPhones, while leave BB10, W10m and a lot of others behind... just like stupid sheeps, who buy just what they are told to buy. But I'm proud to be not a sheep... even if I am in minority. And I'm ready to use one more dead platform device for a few years more (like I did with my BlackBerry Z10), because I am simply happy to use a real device instead of piece of good marketing.
    06-18-2017 12:01 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    Yeah, those security systems might be the most popular application. I see a lot of wireless security camera systems in tech stores. A lot of techs are still nascent, smarthome included. Time they will grow.

    I guess everyone knows smarthomes will get bigger, VR/AR will definitely get bigger, wearables will get bigger, Ai and assistants will get bigger. Hence why they are all investing. It's hard to know how fast they will grow. Lot of people thought smartwatches would be big, but it was fitness bands. The smartwatches just weren't quite the right combination of powerful and small, and the fitness bands did the basics people wanted - notifications, heart rate etc. Smartwatches will get there though.

    It's a bit like VR, VR still has a ways to go, before its perfect for consumers. Smarthomes could probably use more AI, to be really useful - automatically identifying intruders breaking in, or an attack, and notifying police for example. Or recognising people and offering them playlists, or mood lighting. It needs that seemless quality, where it does stuff on its own, like the security camera you mentioned, and there's less monitoring or management. A hub where everything can be controlled like the home hub is a good start, like the mixing pad of the home.

    It need that seemless AI quality, proactive, like the house KNOWS I want to chill, so it provides dimmer lighting and puts on a classical and ambient playlist. I pray to god however, people still know how to operate a switch in the future :P
    Yup. The security systems are getting more popular and are quite useful, both for enterprise and Consumers.
    It's going to be exciting with AI development. Like you said, having your home KNOW what you need with little intervention. I think we're a ways off from it being implemented for most of us to get se but it's exciting watching it develop. Hopefully MS can be a major player.
    travisel likes this.
    06-18-2017 12:09 PM
  12. NightOrchid's Avatar
    IMO... theres Pros and Cons for all OS build... Android, you have Open Source, which lets anyone submit any app.. and create your own ROMS, but its also open to abuse, hacking, Ad scamming and hardware msnufacturers can do what they want..leading to massive price increases.

    IOS security and Apple support is really impressive, amazing app support but under Apples control, however, locked into iTunes, restricted phone customisation and no 3rd party accessory, unless they are through Apple, leading to huge overpricing.

    WP is simplicity, easy access to the device through Windows explorer and any Media Player, speed and unrivalled photography, no Andoid or iPhone 7+ can match WP... however, MS didnt promoted or push it through WP8M so app devs turned away.. and even though WP10M is an excellent platform now-a-days.. no-one seems interested, WP great security would seem to come from lack of interest in it, the WP hardware itself seems alittle cheap and plasticy.

    There arguments on all sides really, but at the end of the day.. its about what YOU want from you device, not what youtube or "in vouge" sales tell you... your phone is a very personal thing..
    TgeekB, Kot Prada, libra89 and 2 others like this.
    06-18-2017 02:52 PM
  13. nate0's Avatar
    Tell that to facebooks win10m developers. A web wrapper runs many times faster than their bloated POS.
    Glad I don't have to deal with fb and other social apps. I have a busy enough phone as it is without them.
    TgeekB and travisel like this.
    06-18-2017 08:31 PM
  14. PerfectReign's Avatar
    BTW, to be honest, it's obviously something wrong with people around: they spend tons of money for **** like Android and iPhones, while leave BB10, W10m and a lot of others behind...
    Disagree. I've used BB10. I really don't know what drug the devs were using while creating that abomination of a UI. Both the Z10 and the Q10 I had at work were a downgrade from my Perl. Good riddance.

    As for people using Iphone, there's something to be said. As i mentioned in another thread, the MS apps on my Iphone 7+ work faster and better than they do on my 950xl or Elite X3. I love being able to search my calendar, OneDrive, and emails in the same screen. (In fact, I can't search my calendar at all on my X3 or 950xl.)






    Sent from mTalk
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    06-18-2017 10:35 PM
  15. travisel's Avatar
    - I seems a lot of people here say: Move from MS Win10M Creators to Apple iOS11 with A11 processeor in 2018. Basically keeping everything MS mobile intact!

    Or

    - The other half say: Move from MS Win10M Creators to Android 8 with Snapdragon 836 in 2018. Also keeping everything MS mobile intact!

    Or

    - Then some hard cores say stay!!! Ride the "Win10M RS3" wave too see if Win10M reboots or the official end from MS?? In 2018

    What to do, what to do??......BB moved to Android 6 and Nokia moved to Android 7, now with Android 8 "Android O" and not suck to one company like only Apple controlling everything.....aka iTunes and it's U2 virus that can't be deleted. Or bloat ware Android drowning in malware. Or No apps with very uncertain future with Win10M RS3...

    It's too bad MS can't just bring out the Surface Phone Pro with Win10M RS3 OS and just emulate Android Apps & iOS Apps with emulated Win32 all in one device! One to rule them all? With great hardware? (Snapdragon 836 & 6GB to 8GB of RAM)

    Sent from Lumia 950XL
    nate0 and Kot Prada like this.
    06-19-2017 12:44 AM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    - I seems a lot of people here say: Move from MS Win10M Creators to Apple iOS11 with A11 processeor in 2018. Basically keeping everything MS mobile intact!

    Or

    - The other half say: Move from MS Win10M Creators to Android 8 with Snapdragon 836 in 2018. Also keeping everything MS mobile intact!

    Or

    - Then some hard cores say stay!!! Ride the "Win10M RS3" wave too see if Win10M reboots or the official end from MS?? In 2018

    What to do, what to do??......BB moved to Android 6 and Nokia moved to Android 7, now with Android 8 "Android O" and not suck to one company like only Apple controlling everything.....aka iTunes and it's U2 virus that can't be deleted. Or bloat ware Android drowning in malware. Or No apps with very uncertain future with Win10M RS3...

    It's too bad MS can't just bring out the Surface Phone Pro with Win10M RS3 OS and just emulate Android Apps & iOS Apps with emulated Win32 all in one device! One to rule them all? With great hardware? (Snapdragon 836 & 6GB to 8GB of RAM)

    Sent from Lumia 950XL
    That's what bb10 did before it went down the drain. Emulating another platform is a sure fire way to kill your own.

    Nothing is entirely certain. There's word google wants to replace android with fuschia (their work in progress hybrid desktop and smartphone hybrid OS), and I think that's quite credible, that android will never get to "z". It's IMo not a forever thing, I think google will pull the plug, someday in the next few years.

    Apple may get their iphones banned from US import if QUALCOMM has its way in court (they might not even get to see the iPhone 8). And if apple has its way, snapdragon processors will all go up in price, the pricing model that makes cheaper smartphones currently possible might go out the windows.

    It's not impossible apple might also make a hybrid OS one day, and retire ios. Either way, with the premium market slowing, apple might be starting to look to invest in other areas, like AR, wearables, AI and smartphone.

    At least the intention with UWP, is that UWP is here to stay. There's no immediate threat to that, and it's supposed to be the future of the whole platform, not just mobile. There are new features promised, such as the app based ones like timeline, files on demand, Cortana skills, the new keyboard and the incoming enterprise features (those might be x3 only).

    But even if there were no new features coming, there will still be features via app updates, some of which will be great trickle down from PC, and win10m is a good OS as it is.

    Just use what you like to use, and don't spend ridiculous amounts on phones when they are mainly tools (IMO).

    People replace their phones every 3-4 years anyway. For all we know, in 3-4 years time everyone will be wanting to use some other companies OS. Or the apocalypse/great depression 2 will have come.

    As something that as only marginally fun, and mostly a tool you really just want a phone that does the things you want it to. Pretty nice screen, good call quality, decent camera, and those few apps most people need on the go, plus maybe some more if your into some niche stuff. A nice UI, and some useful OS features, and your set. It's just a phone.

    A good intel based tablet is more fun IMO, even if it's less portable. You can do some great gaming on those, and run more desktop software. And a console or a gaming PC, with a nice screen - now those at FUN.

    When you could be buying something dope like an xbox x, or a water cooled gaming rig, or a VR setup, or a intel I core tablet for some freaky portable shennanigins, I don't think people should be spending a grand on a phone personally. There's a lot to be said for a nice audio set up too. Music feeds the soul.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-19-2017 at 02:36 AM.
    06-19-2017 02:15 AM
  17. Kot Prada's Avatar
    - I seems a lot of people here say: Move from MS Win10M Creators to Apple iOS11 with A11 processeor in 2018. Basically keeping everything MS mobile intact!

    Or

    - The other half say: Move from MS Win10M Creators to Android 8 with Snapdragon 836 in 2018. Also keeping everything MS mobile intact!

    Or

    - Then some hard cores say stay!!! Ride the "Win10M RS3" wave too see if Win10M reboots or the official end from MS?? In 2018

    What to do, what to do??......BB moved to Android 6 and Nokia moved to Android 7, now with Android 8 "Android O" and not suck to one company like only Apple controlling everything.....aka iTunes and it's U2 virus that can't be deleted. Or bloat ware Android drowning in malware. Or No apps with very uncertain future with Win10M RS3...

    It's too bad MS can't just bring out the Surface Phone Pro with Win10M RS3 OS and just emulate Android Apps & iOS Apps with emulated Win32 all in one device! One to rule them all? With great hardware? (Snapdragon 836 & 6GB to 8GB of RAM)

    Sent from Lumia 950XL
    Agree. Only exception: I wouldn't want Android emulation. I had it on BlackBerry... and Android apps had been always a total sh*t comparing to BB apps. I made a conclusion: if I would want Android apps, I would use Android. Since Android apps are the same **** for me as Android is, because Android apps are a huge part of an Android.

    Also, I am absolutely happy with the current state of my 950 XL.
    Still, I do agree, that would be great to have an MS mobile future. On the other hand, no one said there will be no something in 2018 or 2019.

    Also, that game with UWP is pretty promising (to the question about Android emulation).

    That's what bb10 did before it went down the drain. Emulating another platform is a sure fire way to kill your own.
    I've read that after my answer... otherwise, I would just agree with You instead of typing my message :D

    The rest also is totally similar to my opinion.
    Last edited by xandros9; 06-19-2017 at 02:28 PM.
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    06-19-2017 07:08 AM
  18. NYCMetsPDX's Avatar
    ... freaky portable shenanigans...
    Well that one will certainly enter my lexicon!
    travisel likes this.
    06-20-2017 12:02 PM
  19. travisel's Avatar
    Love my Lumia 950 XL but I feel Ill only get 26 months out of it? All my phones always get 36 months out of them but this time I feel by February 2018 my Lumia 950 XL will be done?☹

    No prospects I see for this device, very unfortunate future Lumia 950 XL has......with in 6-7 months there will be NO 3rd party apps left...very sad 😢considering my Lumia 950 XL has the best OS and great hardware!....just so frustrated with Microsoft Mobile market of less than 1% now......11 years I been with Microsoft Mobile OS phones.....it's coming down 👇 to this.....maybe some miracle will happen in 2018????

    I guess I wait and see...

    Sent from Lumia 950XL
    06-20-2017 07:27 PM
  20. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Love my Lumia 950 XL but I feel Ill only get 26 months out of it? All my phones always get 36 months out of them but this time I feel by February 2018 my Lumia 950 XL will be done?☹

    No prospects I see for this device, very unfortunate future Lumia 950 XL has......with in 6-7 months there will be NO 3rd party apps left...very sad considering my Lumia 950 XL has the best OS and great hardware!....just so frustrated with Microsoft Mobile market of less than 1% now......11 years I been with Microsoft Mobile OS phones.....it's coming down to this.....maybe some miracle will happen in 2018????

    I guess I wait and see...

    Sent from Lumia 950XL
    I just have pleasure to use my 950 XL. Also, all that last updates just make it better. I don't know why people are so upset about apps - I don't use them! Can't understand that Android users with hundreds useless apps on their start screen.
    travisel likes this.
    06-23-2017 05:32 AM
  21. dov1978's Avatar
    I just have pleasure to use my 950 XL. Also, all that last updates just make it better. I don't know why people are so upset about apps - I don't use them! Can't understand that Android users with hundreds useless apps on their start screen.
    Just because you and a small minority of people don't care about or use apps doesn't mean most people don't. It's not just the low amount of apps on Windows phones that people get upset about but also the poor quality and back of features on them compared to iOS and Android
    Last edited by dov1978; 06-23-2017 at 06:04 AM.
    06-23-2017 05:38 AM
  22. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Just because you and a small minority of people don't care about or use apps doesn't mean most people don't. It's not just the low amount of apps on Windows phones that people get upset about but also the poor quality and back of features on them compared to iOS and Android
    Agreed. The proof is in the pudding.
    Two of the three mobile ecosystems have tons of functional, high quality apps and sell millions of phones every year. One mobile ecosystem does not and doesn't even have a new phone in full-scale production at the moment. Apps are key; and even the UWP solution, if it really is one, won't work if the big name apps aren't on board and aren't on the same level of quality as their iOS and Android counterparts.
    As far as the 950 models being supported in 2018, I don't know. We are definitely headed for another reboot. Just look to the past couple of reboots to get a good idea of what will most likely happen.
    Last edited by Scienceguy Labs; 06-23-2017 at 07:54 AM.
    travisel, TgeekB, dov1978 and 2 others like this.
    06-23-2017 06:34 AM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    Agreed. The proof is in the pudding.
    Two of the three mobile ecosystems have tons of functional, high quality apps and sell millions of phones every year. One mobile ecosystem does not and doesn't even have a new phone in full-scale production at the moment. Apps are key; and even the UWP solution, if it really is one, won't work if the big name apps aren't on board and aren't on the same level of quality as their iOS and Android counterparts.
    As far as the 950 models being supported in 2018, I don't know. We are definitely headed for another reboot. Just look to the past couple of reboots to get a good idea of what will most likely have one.
    Totally agree. The 1% that say they don't need apps need to understand there's not enough of them to support the system. Unless they want to pay $5000 for a device. It doesn't make economic sense.
    06-23-2017 07:44 AM
  24. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Totally agree. The 1% that say they don't need apps need to understand there's not enough of them to support the system. Unless they want to pay $5000 for a device. It doesn't make economic sense.
    Very good point.
    Guytronic, travisel and libra89 like this.
    06-23-2017 07:55 AM
  25. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Totally agree. The 1% that say they don't need apps need to understand there's not enough of them to support the system. Unless they want to pay $5000 for a device. It doesn't make economic sense.
    You should understand: I do not buy apps on any ecosystem! Simply because I don't need them!

    Also, W10m has much more from the box. It means, they don't want me to spend money on additional apps.
    Smartphone and App Store are 2 different markets. They are connected. But not the same!

    On Your point, smartphones would cost $100-200 more and would have absolutely free aps in their App Stores.

    Or, You would pay some price for OS and apps pack, and would get smartphone for free...

    But, guess what? It's not like this.

    Yes, cinemas gain some additional revenue from selling You pop-corn and Coke. But You also can take Your own snacks. Or You can do not eat snacks at all. You've already paid for ticket, which includes cinema showing. But not snacks! And that ticket totally covers cost of movie, electricity etc. + revenue. Even without snacks.

    With all respect to You, guys, it's a school level economics. It's not easy for me to write down all such stuff in English. Therefore, I have to send You to beginner economics for details.

    There are 2 type of products: substitutional and (don't know how is it called in English... type of product, where manufacture gains it's revenue from additional stuff, like Gilette does, for example).

    But, that Gilette model is totally different from the economic model of smartphones and App Store. I understand why You did such mistake. But still, it's a mistake

    Just because you and a small minority of people don't care about or use apps doesn't mean most people don't. It's not just the low amount of apps on Windows phones that people get upset about but also the poor quality and back of features on them compared to iOS and Android
    First of all, for sure, it's matter of choice. I have all needed features with a higher quality in W10m comparing to Android or iOS.

    If some people have the opposite situation and need their features in Android or iOS, then they should take Android or iOS device. No problem here. Can't see why such people would be sitting here and arguing about W10m.
    Last edited by Guytronic; 07-15-2017 at 03:55 PM.
    fin11 and travisel like this.
    06-23-2017 07:59 AM
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