10-12-2015 09:27 PM
63 123
tools
  1. Yazen's Avatar
    20.1 MP is sufficient. I own Cannon 70D which is a semi-professional DSLR. What we want is better image quality, with as much details as possible, without super-sampling it to mere 5MP. We can't leave low light images at the same time.

    Optimus G4 has 16MP camera, and I believe it has the best smartphone camera (if we leave Nokia 808 and Lumia 1020 aside). When you compare the image quality, the amount of details, it is much better than Lumia 930. Off course 930 uses 2.5 year imaging technology that is used in Lumia 1520.

    But imagine a 20.1 MP camera with details, clarity as good as that of Optimus G4, without super-sampling it to 5MP, for that we need bigger sensors, bigger lens and a power CPU. If you have bigger sensor, the image quality is always better, sharper, with more details, but the downside is, it takes time to capture and post-processing. For that you need a powerful CPU.

    1520 and 930 were just the entry points. There is much more, that a 20.1 MP camera can deliver.
    I'd like to believe smaller pixels on a relatively small sensor is generally bad unless you are doing something with the data.

    Unless they fit a micro 4/3s I'd like to see 8MP- 16MP cameras. HTC "UltraPixel" could have been great if they'd increased the sensor size and resolution.

    Dedicated imaging processor is the most important upgrade they could make. Less CPU cycles wasted, more processing can be done to produce a higher quality jpeg.

    But then again I may be thinking about it all wrong.
    07-29-2015 04:49 AM
  2. Steve Adams's Avatar
    what an awesome idea, m4/3s sensor, and have the black spot in the back a full lens. WOW!
    07-29-2015 07:07 AM
  3. EMitchell's Avatar
    MSFT / Nokia used to lead the pack when it came to the camera feature. That was the one feature that made the Lumia line stand out, starting with the 1020. Now here we are a couple of years later, the competition has risen to meet the bar set by MSFT / Nokia, I'm curious if MSFT will continue to lead by pushing the capabilities of the phone camera, or if they're planning to package the same hardware with some updated apps.
    desitunez likes this.
    08-04-2015 12:38 AM
  4. maverick786us's Avatar
    MSFT / Nokia used to lead the pack when it came to the camera feature. That was the one feature that made the Lumia line stand out, starting with the 1020. Now here we are a couple of years later, the competition has risen to meet the bar set by MSFT / Nokia, I'm curious if MSFT will continue to lead by pushing the capabilities of the phone camera, or if they're planning to package the same hardware with some updated apps.
    With most of Nokia employees laid off from MS, I seriously started worrying, if their next flagship will have revolutionary camera. Using 2 year old camera hardware with tweek in software is not going to work. They need something revolutionary, that should completely outclass the camera of Galaxy S6 Edge.
    08-04-2015 12:48 AM
  5. Steve Adams's Avatar
    With most of Nokia employees laid off from MS, I seriously started worrying, if their next flagship will have revolutionary camera. Using 2 year old camera hardware with tweek in software is not going to work. They need something revolutionary, that should completely outclass the camera of Galaxy S6 Edge.
    It will "outclass" every camera in a phone out there. MP are not the whole story, and who knows, maybe they will have a completely new 20mp sensor as well. Even with the lower MP count, it will still produce the best photos available.
    08-04-2015 04:14 AM
  6. maverick786us's Avatar
    It will "outclass" every camera in a phone out there. MP are not the whole story, and who knows, maybe they will have a completely new 20mp sensor as well. Even with the lower MP count, it will still produce the best photos available.
    How could you be so sure? Did MS shared their secrets with you?

    Yes MP is not the whole story. We don't need anything more than 20.1 MP. But that doesn't mean that MS should downgrade and drop the MP count from 20.1 (as in the case of current flagship) to something lower

    A Lumia flagship with 20.1 MP camera, that should take better pictures with much better detail than Galaxy S6 edge is all that we need to outclass the current competition.
    08-04-2015 05:18 AM
  7. EnemiesInTheEnd's Avatar
    How could you be so sure? Did MS shared their secrets with you?

    Yes MP is not the whole story. We don't need anything more than 20.1 MP. But that doesn't mean that MS should downgrade and drop the MP count from 20.1 (as in the case of current flagship) to something lower

    A Lumia flagship with 20.1 MP camera, that should take better pictures with much better detail than Galaxy S6 edge is all that we need to outclass the current competition.
    I don't think that they're actually downgrading the camera though. If I remember correctly, the 40megapixel images from the Lumia 1020 camera were faked in order to make up for the deficiencies that smartphone cameras had at the time. Microsoft knows a lot of people want Lumia 1020 successors and Microsoft executives themselves were fans of that device. I believe that Microsoft will deliver on a fantastic smartphone camera, even if it isn't necessarily this year. I have personally been impressed by the images I've seen from the Lumia 640XL so I'm not concerned.
    maverick786us likes this.
    08-19-2015 08:06 PM
  8. psiu_glen's Avatar
    Faked? What are you talking about?

    It had a ginormous sensor, OIS, a physical shutter, xenon flash, and was fully capable of 34/38 mp shots. The oversampling/reframing down to 5mp which MS is ditching was brilliant (obviously, dump it).

    The oversampling/reframing on the 20mp Lumia's worked well also, squeezing quality out of the image when "cropping" down.

    Oversampling on the original Pureview, the 808 worked amazingly well (perhaps better than the WP version) though it did not offer the reframing capability. It also offered the capability for full resolution images...

    Can't fake the increased resolution any more than a dollar store p&s can fake being a top flight DSLR.
    maverick786us and xandros9 like this.
    08-20-2015 09:15 AM
  9. hopmedic's Avatar
    Faked? What are you talking about?
    My guess is that he's referring to the faked video about how great the 920 camera was. Not quite the same, but related.
    Nokia's new PureView ad is amazing, too bad it's faked | The Verge
    xandros9 likes this.
    08-20-2015 01:37 PM
  10. EnemiesInTheEnd's Avatar
    My point is, the Lumia 1020's camera was a 41 megapixel camera to compensate for deficiencies in smartphone cameras that don't really exist anymore. The average flagship 16-20 megapixel smartphone camera in 2015 takes images as good or better than the Lumia 1020.
    08-21-2015 02:52 AM
  11. psiu_glen's Avatar
    My point is, the Lumia 1020's camera was a 41 megapixel camera to compensate for deficiencies in smartphone cameras that don't really exist anymore. The average flagship 16-20 megapixel smartphone camera in 2015 takes images as good or better than the Lumia 1020.
    Unless you want to zoom in. 808/1020 with that high of a resolution you get lossless zoom and still reap the benefits of oversampling on the way there.

    Not sure where the dismissiveness comes from. Megapixels with nothing else aren't much help, but *all other things being equal*, a higher resolution IS better.

    This first page of the 808 review at DPReview covers the oversampling and zoom capability pretty well, btw:

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/808...a-808-pureview

    (As an aside, going back to even my Icon from the 808 is tough now, just from the standpoint of being able to be a bit further back from the action.)
    08-21-2015 10:03 AM
  12. EnemiesInTheEnd's Avatar
    Unless you want to zoom in. 808/1020 with that high of a resolution you get lossless zoom and still reap the benefits of oversampling on the way there.

    Not sure where the dismissiveness comes from. Megapixels with nothing else aren't much help, but *all other things being equal*, a higher resolution IS better.

    This first page of the 808 review at DPReview covers the oversampling and zoom capability pretty well, btw:

    Review: Nokia 808 PureView: Digital Photography Review

    (As an aside, going back to even my Icon from the 808 is tough now, just from the standpoint of being able to be a bit further back from the action.)
    If I wanted to zoom in, I'd be using a point and shoot or DSLR. I'm dismissive because the Lumia 1020 camera is currently ranked something like 6th place among smartphone cameras at Dx0mark. The 41 megapixels is pretty much meaningless these days.
    08-21-2015 10:50 AM
  13. psiu_glen's Avatar
    If I wanted to zoom in, I'd be using a point and shoot or DSLR. I'm dismissive because the Lumia 1020 camera is currently ranked something like 6th place among smartphone cameras at Dx0mark. The 41 megapixels is pretty much meaningless these days.

    DxoMark refuses to retest anything. 1020 on Portico is it. If a Canon gets a significant firmware update? Too bad as well. Their reviews are also composite scores, which if you read the review you would see - for stills it is among the best (brought down mostly by what should have been software correctable WB/color issues) while it was lackluster in video performance.

    We're not discussing P&S or DSLR cameras...with that kind of thought progression, the 4mp Ultrapixel should have been the bestest. Or heck, go back to film cameras. Maybe the old hooded cameras. Even better, let's wait while I get my easel out and paint the scene...

    Good enough? A fancy shmancy flip phone, a Palm Pilot, a nice 1 mp Kodak, and maybe a fanny pack for it all. Ooh and my Discman...

    edit: lol, looked at dxomarks rankings. Anyone using those as a key part of their argument...
    08-21-2015 11:59 AM
  14. EnemiesInTheEnd's Avatar
    DxoMark refuses to retest anything. 1020 on Portico is it. If a Canon gets a significant firmware update? Too bad as well. Their reviews are also composite scores, which if you read the review you would see - for stills it is among the best (brought down mostly by what should have been software correctable WB/color issues) while it was lackluster in video performance.

    We're not discussing P&S or DSLR cameras...with that kind of thought progression, the 4mp Ultrapixel should have been the bestest. Or heck, go back to film cameras. Maybe the old hooded cameras. Even better, let's wait while I get my easel out and paint the scene...

    Good enough? A fancy shmancy flip phone, a Palm Pilot, a nice 1 mp Kodak, and maybe a fanny pack for it all. Ooh and my Discman...

    edit: lol, looked at dxomarks rankings. Anyone using those as a key part of their argument...
    Well, I don't have to use them as part of my argument. All of this year's flagship cameras are on par with the Lumia 1020's camera.
    08-21-2015 08:06 PM
  15. Gautam Bhatnagar's Avatar
    sorry, possibly slightly off-topic but i guess my own issue is mainly from low light use cases... and i don't know particularly why the following would be the case... but my lumia 1020 consistently gets better pictures than my 920, and much better than all the iphones my friends have including the 6 plus.

    is this some magic due to the higher mp count, or is it more likely due to better OIS, bigger sensor size or something than these other models...

    either way i'm loathe to lose it to when i upgrade to whichever win10 flagship... anyone else have this experience?
    08-22-2015 09:04 AM
  16. Mr Kaja's Avatar
    In therm of details, only CM1 and N808 are still comparable to l1020...even in low light. LG G4 is really better in DR and RAW edit (and of course starting and processing speed). I would rather look at dpreview mobile instead of DxO. These results reflects much more my experiences. Anyway, I love digital zoom in videos.

    And to the topic - the same camera HW in new flagship would not be great, but its real. I heard, camera in l1020 was too expensive, MS got rid of many Nokia employees...no really positive situation to keep Nokia/Microsoft on the top of camera phones.
    08-23-2015 12:22 PM
  17. maverick786us's Avatar
    Faked? What are you talking about?

    It had a ginormous sensor, OIS, a physical shutter, xenon flash, and was fully capable of 34/38 mp shots. The oversampling/reframing down to 5mp which MS is ditching was brilliant (obviously, dump it).

    The oversampling/reframing on the 20mp Lumia's worked well also, squeezing quality out of the image when "cropping" down.

    Oversampling on the original Pureview, the 808 worked amazingly well (perhaps better than the WP version) though it did not offer the reframing capability. It also offered the capability for full resolution images...

    Can't fake the increased resolution any more than a dollar store p&s can fake being a top flight DSLR.
    In oversampling we simply downscale the resolution. What is the point of having a good picture quality downscale to mere 5MP resolution when we can have the same picture quality at 8MP using an iPhone

    We want the picture the original 20MP picture to be perfect quality.
    08-24-2015 06:14 AM
  18. theefman's Avatar
    In oversampling we simply downscale the resolution.
    Absolutely incorrect. Please read what oversampling was all about here: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...versamplin.php. Note oversampling is "pulling information from multiple pixels on the sensor to produce 'perfect' pixels in a lower resolution output image". Far, far away from "we simply downscale the resolution".
    psiu_glen likes this.
    08-24-2015 06:23 AM
  19. maverick786us's Avatar
    Absolutely incorrect. Please read what oversampling was all about here: All About 'Oversampling', the Lumia 1020 compared to the original Nokia 808.... Note oversampling is "pulling information from multiple pixels on the sensor to produce 'perfect' pixels in a lower resolution output image". Far, far away from "we simply downscale the resolution".
    Yes, but we don't want the resolution to be reduced. We want to maintain the same resolution.
    08-24-2015 07:35 AM
  20. lippidp's Avatar
    The whole purpose of the 1020 was the zoom feature and it is great. It is the reason I own the 1020. People that complain about the 41MP continually miss the point and should sit down and shut up.
    hopmedic, psiu_glen and v_emman like this.
    08-24-2015 10:12 AM
  21. TLRtheory's Avatar
    As someone who owns a Lumia 1020 and a 1520, I appreciate how much faster the 1520 is at taking pictures even though the 1020's pictures are of a higher quality.
    Posted via Tapatalk from my Surface 3 (128GB/4GB)
    09-24-2015 04:28 PM
  22. sundawn's Avatar
    And a 1 inch sensor
    09-26-2015 04:22 AM
  23. Mars2003's Avatar
    The same 20mp sensor would be a deal breaker for me, there's Nothing yet to suggest that it is the same one.
    Sensor tech moves on and 2 years on from the 1520/Icon/930 I'm expecting something demonstrably better even at the same res.
    That said, I'm also pretty used to MS/Nokia putting out something with glaring back step on it and they've almost killed my optimism for WP.
    09-26-2015 09:46 AM
  24. Mars2003's Avatar
    I'm looking for four things from the camera tech in the 950 series.
    1: A faster lens, say<=1.8
    2: Best in class sensor
    3: A physically big(ish) sensor
    4: OIS
    I fear I'll be disappointed. Everything else is down to the skill of the software developers working on the computational photography aspects of the package.
    09-26-2015 09:59 AM
  25. bsbharath1987's Avatar
    If it should be of a PureView lineage, then it should beat the Galaxy S6/Note 5 camera in all parameters.
    09-27-2015 01:46 AM
63 123

Similar Threads

  1. What's in a name? Naming of the 950 XL.
    By rhapdog in forum Microsoft Lumia 950 XL
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-27-2015, 06:13 AM
  2. Does the Oleophobic coating work well with scratches?
    By dlalonde in forum General Phone Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-26-2015, 04:26 PM
  3. Is the 640 Dual SIM LTE a "dual sim, dual active LTE" device?
    By pdplatypus in forum Microsoft Lumia 640
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-24-2015, 10:48 AM
  4. Is there a way to open files in a specified program in PowerShell?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-24-2015, 09:39 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-24-2015, 09:12 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD