11-20-2015 12:51 PM
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  1. Skyway's Avatar
    both locked and unlocked are listed on the MS store page. According to the rep I chatted with at the MS store the network the phone is connected will control the updates, regardless of the phone being locked or unlocked...
    Well you may be right, but MS themselves have said they will be controlling ALL updates. I know talk is cheap, so we'll have to wait and find out.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    11-10-2015 12:30 PM
  2. PanWorks's Avatar
    It's also highly possible that the MS store will sell the unlocked 950 at a premium over the AT&T device. This was done in the past with the unlocked 830 (I think it was $499 unlocked vs $449 plus free Fitbit on AT&T), and it is currently being done with the unlocked 640 XL ($299 unlocked vs $249 on AT&T).

    I hope I'm wrong, but searching for the unlocked 950 on the education store indicates that the 10% education discount would save $69.90. If accurate, this means that the unlocked 950 will cost $699.
    libra89 and BobLobIaw like this.
    11-10-2015 12:55 PM
  3. 7a2eer's Avatar
    AT&T will still have a hand in updates, but apparently it's not as large anymore.
    Either way, if buying unlocked isn't an issue, then buy unlocked. Guaranteed fast updates, and no carrier bloatware, and no being locked to one carrier. Get the latest software first, enjoy it free of AT&T's apps and customizations, and go anywhere you want.
    You aren't guaranteed fast updates. You're guaranteed that you won't have to wait for Microsoft to fix carrier specific apps and features. Check PTCRB next update and see just how long it actually takes a carrier to approve your update.

    Only difference between AT&T and Unlocked is the branding, and the 48 hours you have to wait for your unlock code. That is of course assuming you aren't taking advantage of financing/loyalty departments at AT&T.

    Go with whatever is cheaper ;)
    InsGadget likes this.
    11-10-2015 01:06 PM
  4. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    both locked and unlocked are listed on the MS store page. According to the rep I chatted with at the MS store the network the phone is connected will control the updates, regardless of the phone being locked or unlocked...
    Maybe, but I do NOT believe that updates will come from the carrier a factory unlocked phone is connected to.

    First, almost nobody actually gets updates over any carrier network. Most are over WiFi. It may come from a carrier server but the majority of updates I've done have been with no SIM in the phone at all and hence no carrier involvement. If it was a carrier phone then it came from a carrier server but if it was an unlocked phone it came from the OS or phone maker's server. And almost everywhere in the world carriers have no involvement with updates. That's just part of the dysfunctional US business model. Are we to believe those carriers are suddenly going to start paying to host and serve updates to their customers? And there are some people who never have a carrier and use a phone just for music or navigation, etc..

    So I'm not buying that updates to factory unlocked phones will now go thru carriers. And it would be contrary to Microsoft's statements that they want to avoid update delays caused by carriers. It would make that worse by making ALL updates subject to carrier delays when presently just people on US carriers using carrier phones have the problem. And if anyone thinks its hard to get updates for phones a carrier no longer sells, think about relying on those carriers for updates to phones they NEVER sold.

    Factory unlocked phones will continue to get their updates from the manufacturer of the OS or device with ZERO carrier involvement.
    11-10-2015 01:08 PM
  5. pankaj981's Avatar
    Unlocked phones here in the US not always get updates first. My 830 is still waiting for Update 2 even after being factory unlocked
    11-10-2015 01:10 PM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...MS themselves have said they will be controlling ALL updates.
    My understanding of the strategy is that Win 10 Mo makes more functionality into Apps rather than baked into the core OS.

    Carriers still control core OS updates but have no say over Apps. It's a back door to provide more timely updates to end users. Factory Unlocked is still the most reliable update path. The impact of carriers has been lessened, but can not be completely removed. Contrary to popular opinion, even Apple is not free of carrier testing (influence) over OTA updates. They are simply getting fast tracked in a preferential manner. Microsoft is trying to do the best they can to lessen the carrier influence in the process and should have it minimized, but Unlocked still wins my vote and my money.
    7a2eer likes this.
    11-10-2015 01:12 PM
  7. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Factory unlocked phones will continue to get their updates from the manufacturer of the OS or device with ZERO carrier involvement.
    Yep... And is was a confused and ill informed rep that stated the contrary opinion that you replied to.
    11-10-2015 01:17 PM
  8. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Unlocked phones here in the US not always get updates first. My 830 is still waiting for Update 2 even after being factory unlocked
    First, a phone can't become factory unlocked unless you are talking about flashing the phone with some 3rd party flashing program with what's in a phone that was factory unlocked in the first place. Maybe you are talking about carrier unlocked rather than factory unlocked. There are way too many kinds of locks to keep straight.

    But my point is that factory unlocked phones (i.e. were NEVER tied to a carrier) will NOT start getting updates from the carriers unless you are talking about updates from the phone or OS maker that happen to come over what ever carrier airways you may be using at the time which is no more related to the carrier than music you stream is. The US is about the only place on earth where there are carrier locked phones and the carriers have any involvement with updates. MS has proclaimed that is a problem for them and is certainly the reason you can't buy a 950 from Verizon. MS is not about to make a change that makes the whole rest of the world (and unlocked US phone users) subject to those problems.
    Jakoh likes this.
    11-10-2015 01:21 PM
  9. jmajid's Avatar
    here's a scary thought....

    ATT offers bundles (band2 or dock) and a lower price if bought outright and Microsoft offers the device at RRP (549)

    then what?

    I'll be stuck - do i go for the bundle or deal with the un-dead carrier?
    11-10-2015 01:32 PM
  10. Jakoh's Avatar
    Is there a discount buying it from AT&T? Or is the only advantage "free" financing.
    Actually since "Next," pricing has been getting worse at ATT, they "charge" more for devices than other retailers. The full price is what the "Next" payment is based on, its basically built in interest.
    640XL $249
    Priv $739
    11-10-2015 01:58 PM
  11. Skyway's Avatar
    My understanding of the strategy is that Win 10 Mo makes more functionality into Apps rather than baked into the core OS.

    Carriers still control core OS updates but have no say over Apps. It's a back door to provide more timely updates to end users. Factory Unlocked is still the most reliable update path. The impact of carriers has been lessened, but can not be completely removed. Contrary to popular opinion, even Apple is not free of carrier testing (influence) over OTA updates. They are simply getting fast tracked in a preferential manner. Microsoft is trying to do the best they can to lessen the carrier influence in the process and should have it minimized, but Unlocked still wins my vote and my money.
    Well that's contrary to what they have said. From what I gathered, they want to keep mobile updates consistent with pc updates. The only way to do that is to lessen carrier involvement in the update process so the mobile updates will not come 6 months after the pc updates.

    I agree though that unlocked is still the better route as far as updates are concerned.
    11-10-2015 02:23 PM
  12. MDK22's Avatar
    UNLOCKED is the best, IF it's the same price (or cheaper) ...

    however, factor in incentives (free dock, wireless charger, band) when comparing prices.

    IF AT&T charges $599 (w FREE continuum dock) vs. MS @ $559 w nothing - if you want the dock, the AT&T phone is a bit cheaper.
    11-10-2015 02:35 PM
  13. RonnieJP's Avatar
    Both the 950 and the 950XL will likely be available from MS unlocked eventually, but for now, looks like it's only the XL model.
    If you check the store, only the XL shows a price, while the 950 just shows "coming soon". No color choices are shown either and the photo just shows the black one.
    11-10-2015 02:44 PM
  14. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Well that's contrary to what they have said. From what I gathered, they want to keep mobile updates consistent with pc updates. The only way to do that is to lessen carrier involvement in the update process so the mobile updates will not come 6 months after the pc updates.
    What they want isn't necessarily what they can get. And they aren't likely to be shouting their failures from the rooftops. Hence the focus on that they want. They are probably making inroads which explains why AT&T gets the 950s and Verizon doesn't (yet), but I'll eat my hat if they are there yet. Darn! second time I've said that in a week. I've got to get a hat or lose all credibility [/cheap shot opening you can drive a truck through]
    11-10-2015 02:48 PM
  15. RonnieJP's Avatar
    Does whether or not one buys a "factory" unlocked phone, or an AT&T branded phone (paid in full) that gets unlocked with a code from AT&T, affect the availability of the updates?
    11-10-2015 02:49 PM
  16. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Does whether or not one buys a "factory" unlocked phone, or an AT&T branded phone (paid in full) that gets unlocked with a code from AT&T, affect the availability of the updates?
    Historically, YES there is a difference. And there is nothing that says its not going to be that way going forward. I'm sure its going to be better but how much is anyone's guess. If the carrier was not still involved, Microsoft would be slapping that on billboards.

    When you get a carrier phone unlocked, all it means is you can put a SIM from another carrier in it. You still won't get updates until the original carrier pushed them out.

    And to add to the confusion there is something called a SIM lock which just keeps someone from stealing your SIM and using it in another phone if they don't know the stolen phone's lock screen security..
    11-10-2015 03:13 PM
  17. pankaj981's Avatar
    First, a phone can't become factory unlocked unless you are talking about flashing the phone with some 3rd party flashing program with what's in a phone that was factory unlocked in the first place. Maybe you are talking about carrier unlocked rather than factory unlocked. There are way too many kinds of locks to keep straight.

    But my point is that factory unlocked phones (i.e. were NEVER tied to a carrier) will NOT start getting updates from the carriers unless you are talking about updates from the phone or OS maker that happen to come over what ever carrier airways you may be using at the time which is no more related to the carrier than music you stream is. The US is about the only place on earth where there are carrier locked phones and the carriers have any involvement with updates. MS has proclaimed that is a problem for them and is certainly the reason you can't buy a 950 from Verizon. MS is not about to make a change that makes the whole rest of the world (and unlocked US phone users) subject to those problems.
    When I say factory unlocked I mean factory unlocked, and I am ware of what's the difference between a factory unlocked v/s carrier unlocked device. The RM-985 variant was sold unlocked directly from Microsoft in physical stores and online and it still hasn't received Update 2. The issue here is Microsoft does not provide the same level of support in the US as compared to other countries where it actually does better (no surprises there).
    11-10-2015 04:07 PM
  18. Skyway's Avatar
    What they want isn't necessarily what they can get. And they aren't likely to be shouting their failures from the rooftops. Hence the focus on that they want. They are probably making inroads which explains why AT&T gets the 950s and Verizon doesn't (yet), but I'll eat my hat if they are there yet. Darn! second time I've said that in a week. I've got to get a hat or lose all credibility [/cheap shot opening you can drive a truck through]
    I hear ya, and I know you're probably right, but that doesn't mean I want to believe it! I would love it if Microsoft just took control of of everything, which might explain why it's only being released on AT&T? None of the other carriers would play ball, so sell it unlocked themselves and through AT&T? I dunno, just guessing.

    All I know is that I will be getting the 950 on AT&T with Next as soon as it comes out and I really hope it's going to be a good phone. I'm making a pretty big leap here moving from Android to Windows, but the reality is I really don't use a whole lot of apps and Google services. There are some that I'm going to miss like Chromecast (I have 3 of them) and Navy Federal, but my girlfriend has a V10 and she can access those if need be. I also have my old M7 and an iPad mini that could probably fill in the gaps, so it's not like I would be completely without my critical apps. I just hope I'm not making a mistake by switching to Windows.
    11-10-2015 04:33 PM
  19. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    I hear ya, and I know you're probably right, but that doesn't mean I want to believe it! I would love it if Microsoft just took control of of everything, which might explain why it's only being released on AT&T? None of the other carriers would play ball, so sell it unlocked themselves and through AT&T? I dunno, just guessing.
    I hope MS wins and eventually any Windows Phones (or at least the brands of Windows phones I buy) get updates straight from MS.

    But I think its more likely that Verizon wouldn't budge off the old ways and AT&T budged some - like maybe capping the amount of time they can delay an update. But it could be anywhere between the old way and no delays. My philosophy is: take risks commensurate with the rewards. Since I can get a factory unlocked phone, and the risk with a carrier phone can not be determined, there is no point in ME getting anything but a factory unlocked phone.
    11-10-2015 04:43 PM
  20. Tom Snyder's Avatar
    I hope MS wins and eventually any Windows Phones (or at least the brands of Windows phones I buy) get updates straight from MS. AT&T budged some - like maybe capping the amount of time they can delay an update. But it could be anywhere between the old way and no delays. My philosophy is: take risks commensurate with the rewards. Since I can get a factory unlocked phone, and the risk with a carrier phone can not be determined, there is no point in ME getting anything but a factory unlocked phone.
    AT&T still has not released the Denim update to many of it's WP phone, even though it would not bring all the features Denim it's still a update. And I think AT&T is the only US carrier which has done this. I notice all the Canadian WP received the Denim update except for some really older WP models.
    11-10-2015 05:12 PM
  21. TechFreak1's Avatar
    To those who are still confused about the updates:

    The simplest way to look at it is if there is a carrier logo on the phone then that carrier has a say in the update schedule, no logo?
    Then it will be either shipped by the OEM or Microsoft.

    The only exception to this rule is a 2nd hand+ phone where the seller has flashed a different carrier's or country variant ROM. If you flash the ROM yourself then there is a good chance you know what you're doing otherwise you wouldn't be flashing the ROM in the first place, right? .

    In regards to buying out right as opposed to through the carrier, I would say buy unlocked and go for many of the MVNO's as it appears from posters on Windows central you're actually better off.

    The fact Verizon is actively blocking the new phones (950 + 950 XL), should really be ringing alarm bells or is that just me?
    11-10-2015 08:01 PM
  22. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    To those who are still confused about the updates:

    The simplest way to look at it is if there is a carrier logo on the phone then that carrier has a say in the update schedule, no logo?
    Then it will be either shipped by the OEM or Microsoft.
    Logo where? If you mean on the phone exterior, not a sure thing. I know T-Mobile 640s didn't have any external logos and I'm pretty sure some of the later 521s didn't either because I recall people in this forum bummed out because their earlier 521s did.

    I don't recall any carrier phone that didn't have a logo on a boot screen though. But I guess that doesn't prove all of them do but based on my experience, I'd use that as a test if I didn't know a better one.
    libra89 likes this.
    11-10-2015 09:22 PM
  23. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    The fact Verizon is actively blocking the new phones (950 + 950 XL), should really be ringing alarm bells or is that just me?
    I'm not alarmed if a carrier wants to cut off its nose to spite its face. I figure it will work itself out. They will eventually sell WM10 phones or run out of features to cut off.
    11-10-2015 09:25 PM
  24. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Logo where? If you mean on the phone exterior, not a sure thing. I know T-Mobile 640s didn't have any external logos and I'm pretty sure some of the later 521s didn't either because I recall people in this forum bummed out because their earlier 521s did.

    I don't recall any carrier phone that didn't have a logo on a boot screen though. But I guess that doesn't prove all of them do but based on my experience, I'd use that as a test if I didn't know a better one.
    Interesting, have there been any other models where this is also true?

    Genuinely curious.

    I'm not alarmed if a carrier wants to cut off its nose to spite its face. I figure it will work itself out. They will eventually sell WM10 phones or run out of features to cut off.
    As long people keep giving them money, it won't happen any time soon lol.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    11-11-2015 01:26 AM
  25. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    As long people keep giving them money, it won't happen any time soon lol.
    The thing about money is: more is better than less. So unless Verizon would lose more money by foregoing their meddling, they will come around. They don't have 950s because they bluffed and lost. But each shuffle and deal is a new ball game. I love mixed metaphors.
    11-11-2015 08:08 AM
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