12-17-2015 03:53 PM
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  1. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    dont go into a store and harass an employee whos job it is to sell phones and not EDUCATE the general public.
    Wrong. Notice you didn't say you shouldn't harass them for not educating people, just shouldn't harass them, period.

    There is nothing wrong with standing up for groups you are a member of such as: consumers. Consumers as a class are harmed by misinformation and false statement (e.g. Windows phones are $%^$). Chewing someone out or reporting them will definitely change the behavior of some percent of the chewees. And that is good for consumers.

    You say salespeople are just doing what makes them the most money. Okay, that is because they are responding to the environment as they perceive it. But that is no reason at all for those harmed by it to not apply their own stimulus. By your logic I should be okay with being eaten by a bear or a shark because its just natural for them to do that. While I don't BLAME salespersons or bears or shark's for being themselves, that doesn't mean I won't or shouldn't try to change that behavior when it benefits me or my kind.
    GizmoEV, zombie0, libra89 and 6 others like this.
    11-22-2015 11:54 AM
  2. tgp's Avatar
    So let me get this straight... Keeping in mind I dont have a degree in marketing and am an owner and proponent of the platform. You want hourly workers to educate themselves, or have the carrier pay to train them, on a platform with less that 3% market share. WOW-wee. Makes sense to me. The dill-holes selling the phones are, themselves, isheep and fandroids. What else do you expect them to shill to know-nothings walking into the store?! Yes, the [platform] sucks people need to be fired, period. But they are sales people, and lets face it, our stuff doesnt sell. AT&T is a business, first and foremost. I blame the lack of market share on MS solely. If they gave the retailers the same incentives as crApple and Samsung, it would be different. Despite the "mobile first" hoo-ha, its obvious their attention is elsewhere. So, until then, dont go into a store and harass an employee whos job it is to sell phones and not EDUCATE the general public. I would love nothing more than to get to a solid 10-12% market share, but MS controls that. Yes, they do, dont even try to argue they dont. If you dont advertise a product, get it into the hands of celebs that the typical consumer mimics, we are <3%. And it seems their goal is to go after businesses, which is actually ok because they mostly use MS products. A PC in your pocket.... may decrease laptop sales a bit but would be great for the market share. This whole thread is turning into the typical "chicken and egg" discussion. The phones dont sell because the ones selling phones dont sell them. The phones dont sell because the ones making the phones dont promote them.
    I was thinking this but this forum is a frightening place if you don't agree 110%!

    I agree that it is not AT&T's job to push Windows Phone. They are pushing what makes them money. They know what sells. They know what customers like. They know what is returned. There is a reason they push what they push. The iPhones and Samsungs are their bread and butter. What do you expect them to do?

    But on the flip side, I'm not sure why they deter customers who come in asking for a Windows Phone. It seems to me that they're likely to like the phone, and unlikely to return it. But I certainly understand why they don't waste shelf space on WP, or even push it to other customers.

    It is Microsoft's job to make a compelling product. Don't kid yourself; when Windows Phone is ready to run with the big boys, it will sell, with or without the carriers' help.
    7a2eer, libra89, rhapdog and 1 others like this.
    11-22-2015 12:04 PM
  3. emark858's Avatar
    I went to an ATT corporate store last night. The 950 was on display and working, the dock was displayed with it. The salesman that helped me knew the phone. He let me know about all offers that were available with the phone, like the Surface 3 deal. He showed me a case, screen protector and the dock while my new phone was updating. I ended up buying the phone, dock and a screen protector when all was done. I had a very good experience.
    11-22-2015 12:04 PM
  4. Allen Rhodes's Avatar
    I was thinking this but this forum is a frightening place if you don't agree 110%!

    I agree that it is not AT&T's job to push Windows Phone. They are pushing what makes them money. They know what sells. They know what customers like. They know what is returned. There is a reason they push what they push. The iPhones and Samsungs are their bread and butter. What do you expect them to do?

    But on the flip side, I'm not sure why they deter customers who come in asking for a Windows Phone. It seems to me that they're likely to like the phone, and unlikely to return it. But I certainly understand why they don't waste shelf space on WP.

    It is Microsoft's job to make a compelling product. Don't kid yourself; when Windows Phone is ready to run with the big boys, it will sell, with or without the carriers' help.
    Thanks for being a reasonable person in your quoted response. Not having a 100% pro MS and anyone who doesnt sell or have is the devil attitude is ridiculous here. AT&T and the like are businesses, why in the hell would they shill something that doesnt sell. Yes, any sales person that deters needs to be dealt with as its their job to sell to the customers needs, not their(sales persons) preferences. No one gave a frigg about hybrids until the manufacturers made them "cool" to have....THROUGH ADVERTISING DUUUHHH DUH DUH DUUUHHHH. MS is horrible at this and just expects current platform owners to continue to buy while neglecting to draw NEW buyers. Maybe this will change with the new flagship... MAYBE. I will be getting the 950XL as my 1020 is getting pretty antiquated and Id like something new to play with anyway. The camera is amazing, but its slow. The demo I played with at the Round Rock AT&T was extremely smooth and i rattled off 10pics in about 10sec and only had to wait another 10sec for it so save them. That can easily be addressed with an update. 20mp vs 40mp... admittedly the 40mp was a gimmick feature and mps dont make the picture. Although, knowing i could print a billboard with a pic from my phone was pretty awesome. But not a practical NEED. The new cam, from what ive seen online and in person is extremely impressive. The sales rep that took me to the phone at least knew what it was and where it was. Granted, it was in the corner by the old models and crackberrys. Thats where we are though, in the corner. Deservedly so until MS steps up their game on mobile. Look at the jump after the L900 marketing, they know how and what to do... MS needs, no HAS TO give the sellers all the incentives they can to make the platform relevant. Who knows, the Surface Phone may be the one they are waiting for. a 100% MS designed product.
    rhapdog likes this.
    11-22-2015 12:14 PM
  5. sbrad's Avatar
    Microsoft ceased being in the phone business the day they wrote off Nokia purchase. My opinion is Satya Nadella is a "Cloud and Enterprise" guy who has little interest in the consumer retail space and even less in phones in particular. If you read or watch his various interviews its very obvious where his head is at. Yes, he will continue to make one or two pieces of hardware in certain categories to show off his software capabilities, but investing the tens of millions needed to properly create brand awareness for the 950/xl is not on his list. There will be a phone that leverages the "Surface" brand (probably called Surface Pocket) and that will create the nice little hardware niche Satya envisions for mobile. If you walk into any phone store and ask the kid behind the counter about a Microsoft Lumia product we all know the reaction, but chat with that same kid about a "Surface pro tablet" and 85% of them at least know and display an interest what you're talking about, even if they use an IPad. That's because Microsoft spent millions on TV marketing for the product and it has now become a very recognizable brand. This time next year if the "Surface Pocket" has been released and properly piggybacked on the Surface name with good marketing, it will be the new cool thing that kids show off to friends at Starbucks.
    StevoPhilo likes this.
    11-22-2015 01:28 PM
  6. 7a2eer's Avatar
    Just got back from AT&T store here in the Bay Area and same thing. No display unit and none in stock. There was another person in there asking for it as well. The salesperson was helpful and even offered that the L635 sells very well due to its low price, mostly to kids. If we can get more kids using it the better. They grow up being WP users!
    I don't think kids need to be raised into fanboyism for a product :P
    11-22-2015 01:47 PM
  7. boneycat's Avatar
    I don't think kids need to be raised into fanboyism for a product :P
    I'm assuming you feel that way because that's exactly what Apple did by giving schools Macs for decades and look at all the products they sell to the current and new generation.
    11-22-2015 02:53 PM
  8. 7a2eer's Avatar
    I'm assuming you feel that way because that's exactly what Apple did by giving schools Macs for decades and look at all the products they sell to the current and new generation.
    And the outcome is mad is it not?
    I have grown to love and appreciate circular logic on this forum :P
    11-22-2015 03:27 PM
  9. boneycat's Avatar
    And the outcome is mad is it not?
    I have grown to love and appreciate circular logic on this forum :P
    Mad? I guess it depends on if you're an apple fan or not. I'm assuming that's how you're using the word. Since I cannot tell your intonation due to the limitations of written communication, I can also assume that the "P:" would indicate that either you're trying to be sarcastic or a troll. Excuse me for running you in circles either way.
    11-22-2015 03:53 PM
  10. FXi2's Avatar
    Maybe stores don't have to be "on board" for day 1? We are, but they're not required.
    We have 100's of questions and know more about the devices because we already have them!
    Like most tech support if they feel you may know more about the topic than they do that might leave them a bit uncomfortable in showing off the product, yes?

    The stores I visit love to have me around for a few hours. It's easy to advocate, offer people options, and help increase the traffic (because people gravitate to areas where others are "looking") at windows phones. Have a race to find how fast you can get the local movie times for some hit film. NFL schedules? All this happens quickly on every phone, but you can do it so fast either with Cortana or with keys. And its fun for people to see the information available to their fingers.

    Advocate and help the process along.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    11-22-2015 03:58 PM
  11. ajj3085's Avatar
    I agree that it is not AT&T's job to push Windows Phone. They are pushing what makes them money. They know what sells. They know what customers like. They know what is returned.
    Then they should have said "thanks, but no thanks" to MS instead of agreeing to carry the phone.
    editguy, Jeddic and wpguy like this.
    11-22-2015 04:02 PM
  12. Fenoy's Avatar
    Went to a small AT&T store in MD on Friday and they not only had the 950 on display but the salesman was reasonably knowledgeable about it even though he carried a 6 Plus. It was a functioning unit and took some photos with it that displayed nicely.
    libra89, jmajid and eugarps like this.
    11-22-2015 04:08 PM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    Then they should have said "thanks, but no thanks" to MS instead of agreeing to carry the phone.
    The cash offered by Microsoft was too tantalizing.
    11-22-2015 04:10 PM
  14. 7a2eer's Avatar
    Mad? I guess it depends on if you're an apple fan or not. I'm assuming that's how you're using the word. Since I cannot tell your intonation due to the limitations of written communication, I can also assume that the "P:" would indicate that either you're trying to be sarcastic or a troll. Excuse me for running you in circles either way.
    maddening*, backwards, juvenile
    aint_even_mad_bro.jpg
    11-22-2015 04:26 PM
  15. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    So let me get this straight... Keeping in mind I dont have a degree in marketing and am an owner and proponent of the platform. You want hourly workers to educate themselves, or have the carrier pay to train them, on a platform with less that 3% market share. WOW-wee. Makes sense to me. The dill-holes selling the phones are, themselves, isheep and fandroids. What else do you expect them to shill to know-nothings walking into the store?! Yes, the [platform] sucks people need to be fired, period. But they are sales people, and lets face it, our stuff doesnt sell. AT&T is a business, first and foremost. I blame the lack of market share on MS solely. If they gave the retailers the same incentives as crApple and Samsung, it would be different. Despite the "mobile first" hoo-ha, its obvious their attention is elsewhere. So, until then, dont go into a store and harass an employee whos job it is to sell phones and not EDUCATE the general public. I would love nothing more than to get to a solid 10-12% market share, but MS controls that. Yes, they do, dont even try to argue they dont. If you dont advertise a product, get it into the hands of celebs that the typical consumer mimics, we are <3%. And it seems their goal is to go after businesses, which is actually ok because they mostly use MS products. A PC in your pocket.... may decrease laptop sales a bit but would be great for the market share. This whole thread is turning into the typical "chicken and egg" discussion. The phones dont sell because the ones selling phones dont sell them. The phones dont sell because the ones making the phones dont promote them.
    Yes and no.
    Microsoft has advertised for the Lumias like the 1020s commercial etc. They've had celebrities mixed with their devices and even paid to have it in tv shows like Agents Of Shield. None of that stuff has worked cause we're still in the same position as before. The thing that Microsoft has to do is create a feature that everyone can benefit from and market the crap out of that feature. Something like the pocketpc is what people seem to want again. If continuum can be expanded to like an x86 platform then I think we can see some traction.

    The other part of it is the stores that are selling them. Microsoft has to invest in some way to get their phones out to people. Most carriers aren't educated in the Windows Phone platform. So what do the salespeople do? They will either tell you to go to a different OS because they aren't comfortable with trying to sell WM10 OR they will pretend they know about it and fall on their face. It's very rare that you'll find someone who knows or likes W10M offerings. I know it cause I work retail and I see it all the time.

    What's the fix for this? They need to pay a representative to go out to multiple ATT stores and offer to help educate and promote W10M. No one wants to look up the info or do digital learnings that retailers try to make you do. They need to have an awesome sales representative for Windows and have them help their fellow employees. Best Buy does it and they have contests and rewards for numbers they hit.

    As a salesperson everyone has goals and targets to hit. The reps have it too. I have an Apple rep who comes into Best Buy all the time. I don't particularly care for Apple at all, but our rep is one of the coolest people I know. I will always be more than willing to help him push his products to help him achieve his goals.
    editguy likes this.
    11-22-2015 05:13 PM
  16. tangledW's Avatar
    I drive out of my way to a store that had them in stock according to the AT&T website, only to be told they didn't have them.

    I said, "great, I just two hours because your website said you did have them" (it was really only an hour). The sales rep just shrugged, like 'who gives a s--t'. I said, "thanks, you curly headed f---" and stormed out (LOL I live Step Brothers).

    I got out to my car and he started yelling at me from the door of the store, I thought OK he's pissed cause of what I said - well lets do this, I'm ready to throw down in the parking lot LOL. Turns out, they did have them and this was just another case of a rep not knowing jack.
    11-22-2015 05:20 PM
  17. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    I drive out of my way to a store that had them in stock according to the AT&T website, only to be told they didn't have them.

    I said, "great, I just two hours because your website said you did have them" (it was really only an hour). The sales rep just shrugged, like 'who gives a s--t'. I said, "thanks, you curly headed f---" and stormed out (LOL I live Step Brothers).

    I got out to my car and he started yelling at me from the door of the store, I thought OK he's pissed cause of what I said - well lets do this, I'm ready to throw down in the parking lot LOL. Turns out, they did have them and this was just another case of a rep not knowing jack.
    This might be the best story I've heard so far.
    Achike Da likes this.
    11-22-2015 05:25 PM
  18. boneycat's Avatar
    I drive out of my way to a store that had them in stock according to the AT&T website, only to be told they didn't have them.

    I said, "great, I just two hours because your website said you did have them" (it was really only an hour). The sales rep just shrugged, like 'who gives a s--t'. I said, "thanks, you curly headed f---" and stormed out (LOL I live Step Brothers).

    I got out to my car and he started yelling at me from the door of the store, I thought OK he's pissed cause of what I said - well lets do this, I'm ready to throw down in the parking lot LOL. Turns out, they did have them and this was just another case of a rep not knowing jack.
    Haha! Great story. Glad you got your phone!
    11-22-2015 05:34 PM
  19. ajj3085's Avatar
    The cash offered by Microsoft was too tantalizing.
    If ms did pay, then certainly AT&T is no living up to their end of the bargain by having employees saying W10M is trash.
    to_be_announced likes this.
    11-22-2015 05:46 PM
  20. saulgould13's Avatar
    I've been there with many sales idiots however why should they care it's not in their "sales"interest to sell phones which don't sell.
    11-22-2015 06:05 PM
  21. Achike Da's Avatar
    I drive out of my way to a store that had them in stock according to the AT&T website, only to be told they didn't have them.

    I said, "great, I just two hours because your website said you did have them" (it was really only an hour). The sales rep just shrugged, like 'who gives a s--t'. I said, "thanks, you curly headed f---" and stormed out (LOL I live Step Brothers).

    I got out to my car and he started yelling at me from the door of the store, I thought OK he's pissed cause of what I said - well lets do this, I'm ready to throw down in the parking lot LOL. Turns out, they did have them and this was just another case of a rep not knowing jack.
    Same thing happened to me. Without the cussing tho :-)
    11-22-2015 06:20 PM
  22. Jazmac's Avatar
    Nothing new here OP. Many only know of and is comfortable with ONE platform. Might be android, might be Iphone. So that is how they steer prospective buyers. Even if the person asks for the 950, they are lacking of knowledge of what this market is about, they don't even try.. We've all heard the story about the TECH SUPPORT guy who took over a full hour to find the desktop when Windows 8 dropped. These are the same people selling phones. They have never been technologically curious and they don't know squat.
    badcat, harmon rabb and editguy like this.
    11-22-2015 07:37 PM
  23. theefman's Avatar
    Carriers (esp US ones) have always been poor selling WP, welcome to 2010.....
    editguy likes this.
    11-22-2015 08:06 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    If ms did pay, then certainly AT&T is no living up to their end of the bargain by having employees saying W10M is trash.
    I don't know if Microsoft actually pays AT&T to carry Windows Phones, but it fits right in with all the other "facts" thrown around here.
    11-22-2015 08:43 PM
  25. editguy's Avatar

    It is Microsoft's job to make a compelling product. Don't kid yourself; when Windows Phone is ready to run with the big boys, it will sell, with or without the carriers' help.
    Except that they do push the phones they want to, like iPhones and Galaxies. I wouldn't care that they're not pushing them, but On T-mo when the 925 came out everyone I know that got one had to argue with the sales person because they were insisting that we were buying junk and we should get an iPhone instead. I had to threaten to leave to get them to shut up and sell me a phone.
    Jeddic, Blu3V3nom07, wpguy and 1 others like this.
    11-22-2015 11:14 PM
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