03-22-2016 04:19 PM
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  1. sheldon cohn's Avatar
    My first test phone, Nokia 520 is running better then the 950 XL with I got to test. The firmware
    on the 950 XL isn't up to date and the build isn't up to date. Windows Central showed a firmware
    update for the 950, but I have not seen it. The 520 is a build above the 950, and opening apps
    is much better with the 520, I don't have to tap several times for an app to open, like the 950.
    I got to test the Continuum yesterday, had to get an adapter for the power plug for the hub, since
    Microsoft sent me a power plug that is only good in Europe.
    I was able to show Continuum to several IT professionals, since I was at Rice University
    and got the adapter from a fellow co-worker there.
    01-05-2016 10:26 AM
  2. cracgor's Avatar
    No. Even if you choose to synchronize in the background, it just stops after a few second (I guess because iOS kills the process).

    I am fine that you are happy with Android or iPhone phones but integration between Windows Mobile and a Windows device is still unparalleled. You get : background synchronization of picture / video, with Live Images, synchronization of your browser bookmarks and reading list, roaming of your credentials across Univrsal App, Cortana (HUGE deal), possibility to send SMS from W10 devices, Map favorites synchronization, only one purchase for application across all your devices, integration of Skype in the Messaging app, UI consistency...

    I mean, we can discuss about qualities and weakness of each mobile platform but in term of integration with a W10 tablet or PC, there is NO question about the FACT that Windows 10 mobile integrates best. BY FAR.
    I don't really care what phone anyone uses, but I get fine integration between my android and surface pro. Pictures sync in the background and I get to choose between Microsoft and Google's services for that (Google offers unlimited storage of photos if you downgrade the resolution from the 20mp). Chrome syncs just as well as Edge with better website display. All of my credentials sync across devices--even the ability to sync form data...I don't have to type any of my address information into web pages anymore. I do not know what Cortana does better than Google Now...I don't know that Google Now can turn on from a sleeping phone, but I haven't really messed around with the feature much. I know the bluetooth reading texts is integrated at least to Lollipop better on WP--but I always turn on driving mode anyway to block text messages for my safety. Texting from your computer is neat. My maps synchronize on google maps. I only have one android device so I can't comment on how the purchases work. I text message or facebook message and don't skype message, but so few of my friends use skype for messaging that when I tried doing it to be cool on the 950xl with my wife, she didn't get any of the messages because she wasn't online and I had no way of knowing.

    The idea is great, and I don't even think the grass is perfectly green on the other side, but a lot of features that I thought were knew or groundbreaking have existed for awhile. One was shrinking the screen for one handed use. When I got my 950xl, I thought I was the only person on the planet with that feature, but when I switched to a V10, I had it there too.

    My only point is that the things that differentiate these phones on different operating systems are less and less. That is the biggest reason having high quality apps available matters. If I had to go back to the Windows Phone Facebook, Kindle, or Youtube apps, I would realize what I was missing. About the only thing I miss is calendar appointments showing up on my lock screen...
    01-05-2016 10:31 AM
  3. Clodi95's Avatar
    I wouldn't read too much into that page. If a user had purchased a Windows 8.1 phone and looked at similar support end dates for that, you'd see the same 2-3 year life time, yet most phones will transition up to Windows 10 mobile so life and support goes on. I would expect a similar path with Windows 10. Will it really be the 'last Windows', or will it be renamed something else within this time frame... e.g. will we see Windows 11 or simply Windows? So many unknowns and quite some time for it to all work out. Either way, we know from the service based frequent update model of Windows 10, that phone users will be better supported on Windows 10 than they ever were on Windows 7/8/8.1.
    we will 100% see Windows 11 (as a free upgrade, of course). It will probably be something like iOS right now... Also, when a major update to an OS comes, it usually is a "good enough" excuse for lots of users to buy new products... Notebook manufacturers would never allow Microsoft to stop releasing new versions of Windows....

    correct. keeping in line with what the ceo said... MS's future is that of a service, regardless of what device you are using. as google is growing from just services to some devices, MS will shrink from making some devices, to just services (xbox is the only hardware that will survive). i predict the end of the surface lines by the end of 2016.
    surface line is having so much success as never before... MS will keep their actual philosophy in 2016: 1) Windows as a service 2) everything else as a service (cloud, cortana, skype, office, ...) 3) at least one "exemplary" device for category, to show OEMs how can their products take the most out of windows system (1 notebook, 1 convertible, 3 smartphones: top-, mid- and low-range)
    01-05-2016 11:06 AM
  4. Stan Nadella's Avatar
    Freightliner Trucks is 100% microsoft, even the phones
    01-05-2016 11:21 AM
  5. frank pik's Avatar
    part of 1520's longevity was in it's hardware which this one seems to have covered for the most part. Other than that it's longevity will really depend mostly on how much MS really wants to gamble/invest in it's product and user base. W10 on any platform got a pretty tarnished image from a lot of standpoints and just about all the grievences were legit so it will take them a while to clear that and the other thing is they seemed to get a little sloppy lately which makes me worried at times that MS's efforts with start off like one of dad's DIY home improvements, where it sounds good but then ends so bad that he just says "f*** it..." and either leaves it or calls in someone else to do it right
    01-05-2016 12:33 PM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    But the table you have cited is total mobile phone sales, that is, it includes both smartphones and feature phones. For smartphones, Microsoft is not even in the top 5. The total Windows Phones shipped for the quarter is only 8.1 million.
    I appreciate someone else delving into the numbers rather than just relying on the bloggers.

    Units shipped is a bit different from units sold to end users and it may be argued that some of those units shipped reflect into future end users and not Q2 purchases.

    True enough that Gartner does not explain their labeling clearly. The titling of the article is "Gartner Says Worldwide Smartphone Sales Recorded Slowest Growth Rate Since 2013" leaving the reader to decide if the data in table 3 includes feature phones and dumb phones in the data. I can find no evidence from Gartner either way.

    In support I do note Q2 2015 Microsoft Financial figures. Microsoft Q2 FY 2015 Financial Results: 8% Revenue Gain

    Moving to phones, Microsoft cracked the 10 million smartphones per quarter number, with 10.5 million Lumias sold, which was up both year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter. The growth has been driven by low cost smartphones, which helps explain the myriad of low-cost devices announced in the past year. Almost 40 million non-Lumia phones were sold, declining over the previous year as the feature phone market dries up. Overall revenue for the quarter was $2.28 billion, with a gross margin of $330 million, or 14%.
    My interpretation is that in this context "sold" means units shipped to retail. If units shipped to retail per quarter is in the neighborhood of 40 million for feature phones it seems illogical that retailers are buying units in such bulk if they are not moving. Following on then, at least the majority of 40 million must be be selling a quarter and subtracting out 30 million units would leave Gartner's table 3 number in the negative. Evidence that table 3 does not include feature phones? I believe it is.

    Additionally the source I found 10.5 million Lumias shipped to retail in Q2 2015. Do you have a link to a source for the 8.1 million you cite?
    01-05-2016 02:33 PM
  7. Simon Rhodes's Avatar
    Yep. It's all about the software and productivity the ecosystem provides you. The hardware is irrelevant because anyone can make a smartphone. What MSFT is trying to do now is smart, but it may be too late. They should have done this 7 years ago. Cracking a market that is dominated by two players with 90+% of a user base is tough and almost impossible. Ask Apple about that with their efforts to take back the desktop world.
    People reach the age of wanting/needing a phone everyday there is nothing to stop them wanting a Microsoft phone so there is every chance WM can take off if Microsoft gets things right. I'm sure Apple may have a higher percentage if their prices weren't so high, they have driven so many customers away with greed the amount of people I hear wanting to buy a Macbook but aren't prepared to pay silly money.
    Last edited by Simon Rhodes; 01-05-2016 at 04:19 PM.
    01-05-2016 03:40 PM
  8. cracgor's Avatar
    I appreciate someone else delving into the numbers rather than just relying on the bloggers.

    Units shipped is a bit different from units sold to end users and it may be argued that some of those units shipped reflect into future end users and not Q2 purchases.

    True enough that Gartner does not explain their labeling clearly. The titling of the article is "Gartner Says Worldwide Smartphone Sales Recorded Slowest Growth Rate Since 2013" leaving the reader to decide if the data in table 3 includes feature phones and dumb phones in the data. I can find no evidence from Gartner either way.

    In support I do note Q2 2015 Microsoft Financial figures. Microsoft Q2 FY 2015 Financial Results: 8% Revenue Gain



    My interpretation is that in this context "sold" means units shipped to retail. If units shipped to retail per quarter is in the neighborhood of 40 million for feature phones it seems illogical that retailers are buying units in such bulk if they are not moving. Following on then, at least the majority of 40 million must be be selling a quarter and subtracting out 30 million units would leave Gartner's table 3 number in the negative. Evidence that table 3 does not include feature phones? I believe it is.

    Additionally the source I found 10.5 million Lumias shipped to retail in Q2 2015. Do you have a link to a source for the 8.1 million you cite?
    I think my main point was just to illustrate what the numbers mean because 200 million windows users sounds like a lot. On the scale of the economy it is a good number, just not a crazy number. It isn't like saying, "When you count all Windows 10 devices, Windows completely dwarfs the competition." It is more like saying, "When you factor in all Windows 10 devices, Windows is relevant as an ecosystem."
    01-05-2016 04:01 PM
  9. Simon Rhodes's Avatar
    950XL is an excellent phone and I wouldn't swap it for any other phone on the market.
    Nice to knopw you want one though it can be that bad then can it.

    You shouldn't buy a L950 expect anything. Looks worse off than the BB Passport.

    Not saying it is a bad phone, however it is most definitely a poor investment. If you do decide to buy one I'm sure I will purchase from you at 1/4 the price you paid...
    01-05-2016 04:05 PM
  10. Simon Rhodes's Avatar
    You don't have to be a fanboy to like the overall better experience of the Windows mobile OS.


    I think the Platform/WM will remain but will not be relevant (like today) and will become even more niche. The quality of apps, even from MS, will always be second class citizen as even MS is focussed on iOS/Android. For Windows, they see enterprise as the majority of the customer and corporations are not much worried about apps...
    So buying into Windows Mobile is waste of Time, Money and your patience unless you are a MS fanboy...
    aximtreo, editguy and libra89 like this.
    01-05-2016 04:10 PM
  11. Simon Rhodes's Avatar
    520 better than 950XL LOL mine works 99.99% perfect

    My first test phone, Nokia 520 is running better then the 950 XL with I got to test. The firmware
    on the 950 XL isn't up to date and the build isn't up to date. Windows Central showed a firmware
    update for the 950, but I have not seen it. The 520 is a build above the 950, and opening apps
    is much better with the 520, I don't have to tap several times for an app to open, like the 950.
    I got to test the Continuum yesterday, had to get an adapter for the power plug for the hub, since
    Microsoft sent me a power plug that is only good in Europe.
    I was able to show Continuum to several IT professionals, since I was at Rice University
    and got the adapter from a fellow co-worker there.
    aximtreo likes this.
    01-05-2016 04:16 PM
  12. coradux's Avatar
    Can you provide a link where Nadella says "unsustainable", not other people saying that Nadella said so? Also, do you know the meaning of the word "unsustainable'? Can you use it in a phrase?
    01-05-2016 04:58 PM
  13. Vertego's Avatar
    Still no STRAVA available on my lumia 735.. See what I did there. Without apps like this windows is a fail.. I love the rest of the OS by the way
    That's an issue to raise with Strava. If enough users do so then Strava will develop an app. If not, they won't.

    I will not consider paying for Strava Premium unless there's a WP/WM/Universal app.

    However, there's more to my 950XL than Strava. I am happy with my choice. I'm sure many others would be, if they could be persuaded to give it (950 or XL) a chance. And therein lies the problem...
    Last edited by Vertego; 01-05-2016 at 05:36 PM.
    RumoredNow, aximtreo and libra89 like this.
    01-05-2016 05:11 PM
  14. cracgor's Avatar
    Can you provide a link where Nadella says "unsustainable", not other people saying that Nadella said so? Also, do you know the meaning of the word "unsustainable'? Can you use it in a phrase?
    The number of quotation marks in your post is unsustainable.
    01-05-2016 07:31 PM
  15. RainbowHurricane's Avatar
    Part of the reason why MS was able to displace IBM as the center of Corporate IT was because they had the new platform (Win 95) that was suddenly every where with consumers. The PC platform effectively displaced the IBM MainFrame/dumb terminal platform because it became cheaper and ubiquitous. The same thing is happening in mobile with IOS and android. Continuum is a nice feature that will work for some business users but hardly most of them. Microsoft has to make phones as cheap as the android phones with iPhone quality.

    Microsoft has another problem that the under 30 generation of IT Pros are growing up more familiar with IOS and Android Technology. As they age and become the IT leaders and Management they will be much more willing than the true blue 40-60 year olds that grew up with Windows and have years of experience and knowledge. Apple's biggest problem is managing and supporting the growth of IOS in business. Thus the deal with IBM for developing Corporate apps.
    01-05-2016 09:57 PM
  16. Cornelius Smith II's Avatar
    Fair point about no Strava official app, however, there are third-party apps. And Garmin recently publishing their universal Garmin Connect app really made my day.
    01-05-2016 10:29 PM
  17. MtxXx's Avatar
    Fair point about no Strava official app, however, there are third-party apps. And Garmin recently publishing their universal Garmin Connect app really made my day.
    I also would like to see official Strava app coming. I'm bit pissed about Suunto ignoring windows platform totally. I might switch to Garmin instead.
    01-05-2016 10:40 PM
  18. pericle's Avatar
    Additionally the source I found 10.5 million Lumias shipped to retail in Q2 2015. Do you have a link to a source for the 8.1 million you cite?
    I got the figure from the link to the Gartner website you had given in your previous posts. Anyway this is the link again.

    Gartner Says Worldwide Smartphone Sales Recorded Slowest Growth Rate Since 2013

    There are 3 tables, one for smartphone sales by vendor, one for smartphone sales by operating system and table 3 is mobile phone sales, which you had given in your previous post. Table 2 contains the sales by operating system which gives Windows Phone sales of 8.1 million for the quarter. The heading on each table indicates that these are sales to end users.

    They have also published the 3rd quarter sales. The link is below. That gives Windows Phone sales of only 5.8 million for the 3rd quarter.

    Gartner Says Emerging Markets Drove Worldwide Smartphone Sales to 15.5 Percent Growth in Third Quarter of 2015
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-06-2016 02:30 AM
  19. klaw81's Avatar
    Firmware updates will be coming from the mobile carrier + the official Windows 10 mobile release .29
    If your 520 is on a higher Windows 10 mobile build, then you must have it signed up to the 'Windows Insider' app and its slow or fast rings for the most up-to-date Windows 10 builds (.29 and above).

    Once you get the firmware and official Windows 10 mobile build, I would backup and then do a hard reset and restore. Then see how phones (520, 950) perform... If you don't see a difference then am stumped!!

    ** Am previous Lumia 620, 1020, and now happy 930 user, will move to 950 once its cheaper and dual sim version available to me in UK **
    01-06-2016 09:53 AM
  20. Krystianpants's Avatar
    If it will be an intell cpu (which I hope it will not)it will most likely be atom x3 or x5 at the push. M series won't give you enought battery life
    New 10nm process coming this year. This will also bring new battery saving features. It's happening. Trust me.
    I told a friend 4 years ago that the future will make your phone into a computer and that you will be able to use one device. He kept saying it will never happen but it's already in the works. It's something that is easily predicted if you see where technology is heading. Keep in mind that with tech you can't just say "it can't be done". Otherwise we would have computers that fill our basements. They already have quantum cpus that are proven to work but are super limited at this point. They have light based cpus that destroy bottlenecks, heat. There's a lot in research. MS and intel have some insane R&D. They have been working on something top secret for a while.
    01-06-2016 11:03 AM
  21. MikkoPaivarinta's Avatar
    Just turn on the ability to update in the back ground. That function always was there
    Yep, no dice. "Backround App update" on iPhone just doesn't work like on a WP. Or OneDrive doesn't work on iPhone like on WP. The photos do get updated on the iCloud, but it's already full :-)
    01-06-2016 11:48 AM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I got the figure from the link to the Gartner website you had given in your previous posts...

    There are 3 tables, one for smartphone sales by vendor, one for smartphone sales by operating system and table 3 is mobile phone sales, which you had given in your previous post. Table 2 contains the sales by operating system which gives Windows Phone sales of 8.1 million for the quarter. The heading on each table indicates that these are sales to end users.

    They have also published the 3rd quarter sales. The link is below. That gives Windows Phone sales of only 5.8 million for the 3rd quarter.

    Gartner Says Emerging Markets Drove Worldwide Smartphone Sales to 15.5 Percent Growth in Third Quarter of 2015

    Ah... You had originally said "shipped" which I took to mean retail vendor orders. I see now that you were using sold to end user figures all around.

    So you subtracted out table 2 figure from table 3 figure to reduce Microsoft. How did you subtract out from other OEMs? Apple is the only other OEM that you could have done this for and they sell no phones outside the "smart" category. Is it true that Samsung, LG, Huawei, et al sell no phones of the non-smart classes and thus Microsoft is the only one that gets such a reduction?

    The math is only good if you apply it evenly.

    I didn't use a different Quarter as the Q2 2015 is the one thrown into the Verge article originally quoted. But again for Q3 we have the same problem of Android and Apple tablets giving a double dip when Microsoft tablets get excluded from sales by mobile OS. This unintended representation that mobile OS sales equates solely to phones sold is a fallacy. I would love to see the numbers that managed to strip out Android and iOS tablets. The vectoring is at fault here and always has been. Bloggers very often fall into that reporting error of mobile OS numbers = phones without realizing, or at least annotating, the tablet differential. This has become compounded over time as tablet sales continue to increase over year past.
    01-06-2016 11:51 AM
  23. Hoppman's Avatar
    No phone is an investment, they are just an electronic gadget. Were transistor radios an investment? Were Walkman's an investment? Were boom boxes an investment? No to all of them. They were just the latest and greatest electronic gadget at the time. That is all the 950/950XL is at this time, until the next latest and greatest gadget shows up.
    editguy and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-06-2016 02:01 PM
  24. icedave's Avatar
    Will hang-in as long as there's a WP!!! Use the WP 735 (great). Have been using Microsoft products since booting from 5-1/4" floppies!....735 syncs perfectly with Windows 10. Pretty much only use it for talk/text/email and occasional web search.....though does much more well. Had the iPhone 4 and not bad, but in my opinion Apple not worth the money...plenty of Apps you actually need on WP. Problem is....stopped by Verizon (current provider) and sounds like they've dumped WP again!!!!! Could this be a problem?...hopefully AT&T will continue to support the WP phones, and will switch if need be....or could this be the end?!?!?
    01-06-2016 08:44 PM
  25. sguy156's Avatar
    Buying a 950 now its not a good investment . Quality of apps on windows phone is not there anymore . Yes I do miss some features of of windows phone but I rather have apps I need ( banks , transit )..
    01-06-2016 08:58 PM
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