Is the 950/950XL still a good investment given Mr. Nadella's recent statements?

[jlabelle]

Not being able to upgrade to a new OS is also different than having the app incompatibility. If you are stuck on an older phone, if it has app access it doesn't really matter as much.

Well, I tried to install Procreate on the iPad 2 of my son and I had to upgrade to the very latest iOS9 upgrade in order to be able to use it otherwise, it refused to launch.
So much for your example !

Beside, it starts to be a little bit old to take always this example of 4 years ago, don't you think ?
All people having purchased their Windows phones since the last 3,5 years can use the very latest OS and very latest apps. And the best of it is that it is not running slower (compared to iOS upgrade) and you get all the benefit if the hardware support it (slow motion, Rich Capture, USB OTG...)

 

[jlabelle]

Totally agree on the annoyance of having to keep screens open to download, does seem a weird limitation.

It is, like iOS, an disadvantage and an advantage. iOS very tight control is creating a lot of limitations but is preventing of having your phone like Android that start to crawl like crazy after a few weeks / months and many applications installed because they can all run in the background, when they want, without limitation and you have "manage" constantly your phone, close opened application, use tools app to clean and optimize constantly the OS like the old PCs of our parents.

Windows Phone and mobile is sitting in the middle of iOS and Android opposite extreme. I am glad that Microsoft choose to keep this middle ground and that they do the same with W10 that can be use with modern app that you do not need to manage, cannot install virus, are sandboxed, can be uninstall cleanly and so on.

What you see as a "annoyance" is a strength of the OS for other users. If you want the "far west" OS, Android is here.

 

[NHUK]

Mindi B - I would address a few of the points you make, first and foremost, you are entirely right that WP hardly registers anymore in the business world. A shame since, with the old WP7 and QTEK 2020 I remember when they were the norm... The app gap is partly to blame, but more so is the existing mass of android and ios devices already in consumer hands. People know what they like, and dont want change. Couple that reluctance with top notch marketing from Apple, not bad effort from driod based phones and a dire performance from MS and you're pretty much screwed - I would take issue with the comment about easier admin and security, though. IOS and droid are a pain in the arse.

I also agree that MS seem to make a better job of their apps on other mobile platforms than their own, which just defies understanding....

However, and it's a big however, I DO think that continuum will be the game changer when it comes to corporate take up, if MS can get it right - at the moment its a gimmick and not really all its advertised to be.

Our mobile workforce (who I am resposible to kit out) all shout how they need an iphone, but they also want a tablet, but they need a laptop.... If I can provide one device in the future that gives them mobile and tablet functionality, whilst a dock will then give them a full, genuine windows environment (and not just a carefully selected set of scaled mobile apps) then we have a winner in my view. I'm hoping that they nail it with the surface phone and move on fairly swiftly from the 950 (which I believe seems ok) and the 950XL, which I just returned due to too many defects.

 

[NHUK]

What you see as a "annoyance" is a strength of the OS for other users. If you want the "far west" OS, Android is here.

Steady, I only said it was an annoyance, I'm not about to jump OS's just because of that!

 

[libra89]

I am always puzzled by this. Who are the people that needs ABSOLUTELY their bank application on their phone and cannot use the website for urgency situation or wait having access to a tablet or computer to manage finance more comfortably ?

I don't think it's fair to criticize each other's needs. Different people have different reasons. Having a bank app on a phone is convenient.

In fact, I have a great example of this. My credit union has apps for iOS and Android, but none for WP. Why is it that when I go to the website on my WP, it asks me if I want the full site or the mobile site? You would think that it would detect that I am using a phone, so of course I would want the mobile site. I find this to be weird but I don't access my account via mobile so it doesn't bother me much.

My example aside, a good number of people need one to deposit checks. You never know if it could be for business, personal, or a mix of both. You can't do that through the website, only through an app usually.

 

[cracgor]

Well, I tried to install Procreate on the iPad 2 of my son and I had to upgrade to the very latest iOS9 upgrade in order to be able to use it otherwise, it refused to launch.
So much for your example !

Beside, it starts to be a little bit old to take always this example of 4 years ago, don't you think ?
All people having purchased their Windows phones since the last 3,5 years can use the very latest OS and very latest apps. And the best of it is that it is not running slower (compared to iOS upgrade) and you get all the benefit if the hardware support it (slow motion, Rich Capture, USB OTG...)

So when windows phone decides to start using x86 processors exclusively in the fall and older processors get as much love as the RT gets. It isn't just one example 4 years ago with no possibility for repeat. When Microsoft drops support for something, they do not lose sleep over it.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

 

[Gunbust3r]

So when windows phone decides to start using x86 processors exclusively in the fall and older processors get as much love as the RT gets. It isn't just one example 4 years ago with no possibility for repeat. When Microsoft drops support for something, they do not lose sleep over it.

I doubt they will do a 100% conversion to X86. Remember the whole RT debacle was to throw some weight around in the face of Intel. On the flip-side just look how hamstrung being 100% reliant on sloppy seconds and defective 810 Qualcomm chips had been working out...

 

[editguy]

So when windows phone decides to start using x86 processors exclusively in the fall and older processors get as much love as the RT gets. It isn't just one example 4 years ago with no possibility for repeat. When Microsoft drops support for something, they do not lose sleep over it.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

And what company does? They all drop support in one way or another as time goes by.

 

[Mindi B]

Mindi B - I would address a few of the points you make, first and foremost, you are entirely right that WP hardly registers anymore in the business world. A shame since, with the old WP7 and QTEK 2020 I remember when they were the norm... The app gap is partly to blame, but more so is the existing mass of android and ios devices already in consumer hands. People know what they like, and dont want change. Couple that reluctance with top notch marketing from Apple, not bad effort from driod based phones and a dire performance from MS and you're pretty much screwed - I would take issue with the comment about easier admin and security, though. IOS and droid are a pain in the arse.

I also agree that MS seem to make a better job of their apps on other mobile platforms than their own, which just defies understanding....

However, and it's a big however, I DO think that continuum will be the game changer when it comes to corporate take up, if MS can get it right - at the moment its a gimmick and not really all its advertised to be.

Our mobile workforce (who I am resposible to kit out) all shout how they need an iphone, but they also want a tablet, but they need a laptop.... If I can provide one device in the future that gives them mobile and tablet functionality, whilst a dock will then give them a full, genuine windows environment (and not just a carefully selected set of scaled mobile apps) then we have a winner in my view. I'm hoping that they nail it with the surface phone and move on fairly swiftly from the 950 (which I believe seems ok) and the 950XL, which I just returned due to too many defects.

I wasn't talking about Android in terms of business and corporate adoption - it's iOS that has that foothold. Everyone knows Android isn't secure and therefore not a real option for business.

Again, I hate to break it to you - but no one out there cares. Continuum IS a great idea, but nobody actually needs it or even talks about it. No one is talking about WP, and no one is certainly paying attention to Continuum beyond "oh, that looks nice", and then they move on - that's IF they even took any notice. On top of that, a lot of those users are rocking iPads, and most recently, Surface Pro 4's with their iPhones. No one has any interest in how Surface Pro works with WP. It's not even on their radar.

The other thing you need to realise is that while YOU might think WP is a perfect solution, it's got to work with the setups of other partners and vendors that businesses do work with. They're all using iOS, and they're all using VPN's and things like Mobileiron for security. The maruity of iOS now delivers exactly what business and corporate needs. So the users have what they need, they're not interested in exploring WP and certainly not intrigued by Continuum.

It's good that you're optimistic about the platform - but it doesn't reflect the reality of what's going on out there.

 

[NHUK]

Mindi, check your tone, please, I am trying to have a reasonable discussion and talking down to me without any knowledge of my experience or background is somewhat condescending.

You don't need to break anything to me, and you don't speak for anyone but yourself - it's all about opinions here, no more than that.

What you perhaps need to consider is that statistically I can't be the only one who is looking at continuum with optimism - if my professional assessments were so off, I wouldn't be where I am, and users in my company do care, and are interested in WP, evidenced by the number of enquiries my team gets about the devices on the Helpdesk....

Please don't feel compelled to try an 'educate' me simply because we disagree.

 

[Mindi B]

It's just the cold hard facts of what's going on out MARKET-WIDE mate - not meant to be condescending at all. I'm a blunt writer and what I'm expressing is just a reality-check. Sadly for WP, it's not a positive situation.

 

[tgp]

It's just the cold hard facts of what's going on out MARKET-WIDE mate - not meant to be condescending at all. I'm a blunt writer and what I'm expressing is just a reality-check. Sadly for WP, it's not a positive situation.

The hope is that it will turn around. That said, there was a thread over on CrackBerry (whose fans are in a much worse situation ATM!) in which an interesting article was posted about niche products and the "harbinger of failure":

CrackBerry - No New BB10 Devices What Are We Going To Do Guys. The article is linked in this post.

Are we doing a service by supporting the underdog when it seems almost nobody else will? Now I realize that the situation here is much brighter than it is for BlackBerry. They just announced that future BB devices will be running Android. Windows Phone has Microsoft behind it, a business with deep pockets. Profitability is not an issue for Microsoft like it is for BlackBerry.

There is room for niche products. The problem here is that the smartphone is not a niche product. They are not designed to be a low volume high profit device to cater to a very small subset of the market. An example of that would be something like a diamond plated device that sells for $20,000. Niche or not, a product needs to make a profit to remain relevant.

Either way, it is going to be fun to watch the developments in 2016. Hang on for the ride!

 

[chezm]

It's just the cold hard facts of what's going on out MARKET-WIDE mate - not meant to be condescending at all. I'm a blunt writer and what I'm expressing is just a reality-check. Sadly for WP, it's not a positive situation.

I read the last page and get you, not sure why you're getting all the hate and they're making it seem as though you've created a war. The reality is what it is beyond windows central, for me anyhow. I use Android, it's got issues and I can openly admit it faults... Especially in security although that's something they're trying to tighten up. WP has a major uphill battle against iOS, on NA anyway. MS has the potential with its business market relationships to drive W10 but selling WP over iOS is such a difficult battle and a game they've arrived too late to unfortunately. Continuum (SP?) is a nest idea and could have some form of progressing forward however as it stands right now no one cares about it in large numbers. We all know Apple could easily create some potentially competitor alternative and it will shine in the masses...unfortunately true.

I hope WP grows and I would love to return to the Mobile OS... But I, as well as everyone I know who uses ios or Android for work, has zero reasons to want or use WP right now. I think MS still needs to create more features, killer things everyone will care about, on WP.. I have hope it will come... Fingers are crossed.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

 

[RumoredNow]

There is room for niche products. The problem here is that the smartphone is not a niche product. They are not designed to be a low volume high profit device to cater to a very small subset of the market. An example of that would be something like a diamond plated device that sells for $20,000. Niche or not, a product needs to make a profit to remain relevant.

Vertu is the classic example of niche luxury smartphones. It was at one time a Nokia sub-brand in the feature phone and Symbian heyday. They still are doing business today under direction of a holdings company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertu
Phone Finder results - GSMArena.com

They are beautiful pieces of gear. I would hate to see Microsoft go too far down that road. My wallet couldn't stand it. :winktongue:





Don't forget: Tapping the Ruby Key (made from 100% authentic Ruby) unlocks many services to relieve the tedium of everyday life. Speak with your concierge and allow them to handle the minutia of booking your holiday at Caan during the festival. You also are privilege to the most exclusive events the world over. Vertu is the new magic carpet...

Extraordinary Services | Vertu

 

[Mindi B]

The hope is that it will turn around.

Sadly though, it won't. I'd totally support that idea if we're not referring to a platform that's been reinvented for the third time. And this time, there's been an even more consistent flow of negative news than I've seen since the first day of WP7. I'm not being a hater (jeez, I would LOVE for the WP app gap to miraculously be righted so that I can move back over!) - I'm being realistic. It's just too late. You can even see MS conceding it now.

I read the last page and get you, not sure why you're getting all the hate and they're making it seem as though you've created a war. The reality is what it is beyond windows central, for me anyhow. I use Android, it's got issues and I can openly admit it faults... Especially in security although that's something they're trying to tighten up. WP has a major uphill battle against iOS, on NA anyway. MS has the potential with its business market relationships to drive W10 but selling WP over iOS is such a difficult battle and a game they've arrived too late to unfortunately. Continuum (SP?) is a nest idea and could have some form of progressing forward however as it stands right now no one cares about it in large numbers. We all know Apple could easily create some potentially competitor alternative and it will shine in the masses...unfortunately true.

I hope WP grows and I would love to return to the Mobile OS... But I, as well as everyone I know who uses ios or Android for work, has zero reasons to want or use WP right now. I think MS still needs to create more features, killer things everyone will care about, on WP.. I have hope it will come... Fingers are crossed.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

I couldn't agree with you more. And yes, I don't quite understand why a particular user has been so infuriated by what I wrote, it's not meant to be a personal attack, it's a cold blooded assessment of what's going on and I feel for the users still desperately wishing for things to turn around when they're not going to.

My fingers are crossed too, and like you I've moved off WP to a platform which isn't perfect (iOS), but it does exactly what I wanted WINDOWS PHONE to do. But you know, my fingers are losing a bit of circulation after keeping them crossed for FIVE whole years!

Back OT - I'd say the 950/950XL are good investments for PURE FANS ONLY. Outside of that, I think it's now crazy for anyone to touch W10M and would advise them all to stay right away, the situation has got that bad.

There is though, ONE, JUST ONE glimmer of hope - if the rumoured Surface phone is real, and if it's built well enough, the iPhone will finally have a real MS luxury competitor. Surface has become a damned sexy brand and it needs to expand to a phone. If MS releases a Surface Phone of brilliant aesthetic quality, combined with a simultaneous release of an OFFICIAL FB and IG client (sorry folks, but as good as 6Tag is, it's not the real thing, and the real thing is what the market wants), it'll be a great way to get REAL momentum.

 

[DJCBS]

Vertu is the classic example of niche luxury smartphones. It was at one time a Nokia sub-brand in the feature phone and Symbian heyday. They still are doing business today under direction of a holdings company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertu
Phone Finder results - GSMArena.com

They are beautiful pieces of gear. I would hate to see Microsoft go too far down that road. My wallet couldn't stand it. :winktongue:


View attachment 120259


Don't forget: Tapping the Ruby Key (made from 100% authentic Ruby) unlocks many services to relieve the tedium of everyday life. Speak with your concierge and allow them to handle the minutia of booking your holiday at Caan during the festival. You also are privilege to the most exclusive events the world over. Vertu is the new magic carpet...

Extraordinary Services | Vertu

Vertu was a creation of Nokia
Derek did a review for Android Central last year. You can read it here Vertu Signature Touch Review | Android Central

 

[NHUK]

Mindi B - I hope you don't mean me, I would hardly describe my replies as infuriated....

 

[rishilal]

For Stephen Townsley....
Hi. You may store the loyalty cards on the Stocard App. I use that & it works well. I've been using it for over 2 years now - from my L920 days.

 

[editguy]

Sadly though, it won't. .

Statements like that may be why someone would take issue with your comments. It's dogmatic and leaves no room for discussion. Your overall tone is condescending, as if you know more than those who disagree with you. You don't know that WP won't succeed. It's your opinion. It may turn out to be correct, or it may completely miss the mark. When I read statements like this, I always remember back to the days when people were writing Apple's obituary. They made statements exactly like yours. But we all know that all of those doom and gloom predictions turned out to be wrong. The same could be true with WP. Time will tell.

 

[AgentTheGreat]

Statements like that may be why someone would take issue with your comments. It's dogmatic and leaves no room for discussion. Your overall tone is condescending, as if you know more than those who disagree with you. You don't know that WP won't succeed. It's your opinion. It may turn out to be correct, or it may completely miss the mark. When I read statements like this, I always remember back to the days when people were writing Apple's obituary. They made statements exactly like yours. But we all know that all of those doom and gloom predictions turned out to be wrong. The same could be true with WP. Time will tell.

"Others have made mistakes before, so you're mistaken" is not a valid argument. There is evidence of failure everywhere, most significant of which is shrinking market share in spite of advertisement. Other are the presence of formerly WP services on competing platforms; lackluster, awkward, not quality feeling hardware admitted by most journalists in their reviews; still wide app-gap...so just because some jackass "pundit" predicts "the year of Linux" or "fall of Windows" or "demise of Apple" doesn't mean all this evidence gathered through the years is irrelevant.

His "sadly though, it won't" is based on these and these are so obvious you'd expect people not emotionally dependent on a certain company to know them without mention.