01-22-2016 01:02 AM
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  1. luckygeezer's Avatar
    I have the highest regard for Nokia Lumias. My wife and I had such great experiences with our past Nokias and we are also delighted with her Lumia 820 and my Lumia 520. It's time to upgrade but when I look at the 830 and 930 WPC reports I am stunned to read about the copious bugs. There is clearly a lack of quality control and WP10 is still very buggy too. MS needs to address these issues because general confidence is currently at a very low ebb. In Thailand there are 3 major network providers - AIS, True, DTAC. It is currently impossible to buy 830 and 930 Lumias from their online stores. Our local telephone shop has told us that these phones are not currently stocked anywhere in Thailand. Clearly the Thai network providers and phone suppliers are unwilling to risk customer dissatisfaction by supplying MS Windows phones. This is a crisis that MS needs to address urgently because once goodwill has gone, it takes years to recover. My wife and I will wait until we see great reviews of MS phones and great reviews of WP10. MS I beseech you, please improve your performance before it is too late!
    jpminou likes this.
    01-18-2016 07:42 PM
  2. ashram's Avatar
    it's currently impossible to get an 830 and 930 since both have been END OF LIFE for a while now. It has NOTHING about confidence in the hardware, they are simply no loner made.
    01-18-2016 07:51 PM
  3. rambo47's Avatar
    It says something about Microsoft's support of their mobile devices when they go EOL so quickly. Not exactly a confidence booster. Anyway, the 950 is just a placeholder until the Surface Phone is released. The moment the SP is released, Microsoft will drop the 950 like third period French.
    luckygeezer likes this.
    01-18-2016 08:18 PM
  4. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Just to be clear…

    This is a fan based News and Discussion site. It is in no way run by Microsoft, Lumia or any developer.
    01-18-2016 10:14 PM
  5. dzoq's Avatar
    Debby downer; Im not sure the surface phone sill live up to hype... Everything has been down hill since the 1520 and 930
    aximtreo likes this.
    01-18-2016 10:41 PM
  6. luckygeezer's Avatar
    Rum and ashram don't get it so must be MS employees. Mistakes have been made by MS on 2 of their recentish phones. Ram and I are having a sensible discussion. So EOL means just ditch the poor sods who bought the troublesome phones like it's their fault? MS should keep faith with their customers and eradicate all problems before selling phones. MS seem to think it's OK to let the buyers sort out the bugs after buying! This discussion lets others have a viewpoint and helps others evaluate MS phones better.
    CraigCole and jpminou like this.
    01-18-2016 10:47 PM
  7. GMJeff's Avatar
    Rum and ashram don't get it so must be MS employees. Mistakes have been made by MS on 2 of their recentish phones. Ram and I are having a sensible discussion. So EOL means just ditch the poor sods who bought the troublesome phones like it's their fault? MS should keep faith with their customers and eradicate all problems before selling phones. MS seem to think it's OK to let the buyers sort out the bugs after buying! This discussion lets others have a viewpoint and helps others evaluate MS phones better.
    As far as calling someone a MS employee just because they make a comment that does not appeal to your needs is just asinine. The devices were on the market for 6 months or more and probably didn't sell very well, so Microsoft decided to end them by declaring EOL (end of life). That does not mean that they stopped supporting them, but rather that the supply of said devices would be exhausted within the sales channels.

    I bought my wife's 830 over a year and a half ago and they were hard to find then, only being on one carrier in the US. Microsoft had also made numerous comments at trade events and such that they would start removing numerous devices from their portfolio to help streamline the amount and type of handhelds available worldwide.

    As far as eliminating all problems before selling the phones, that is physically impossible as these are electronic devices. a faulty battery or processor or memory chip can lead to all sort of bugs and phone issues that would appear to be software related. Microsoft, like all other production companies do not have the time to test all devices that flow down the conveyor belt, so they sample. They pick devices at random and test them. If there are no noticeable bugs, they ship.

    As far as MS thinking it is okay to let users sort out the bugs after release, remember, they do issue software updates and firmware patches to correct problems that are reported to them. I have seen this with my Surface Pro 3 and now Surface Pro 4 when they released firmware updates almost immediately after launch to correct some major issues with the devices.

    The surface phone when/if it comes out should be a sight to see. The hardware will probably be cutting edge and look great, but that does not mean that the OS will be polished, we can only hope. The train of thought is also that the surface phone may not be a viable iPhone killer until its second or third iteration, like the Surface Pros have become.
    Suedezu, ashram, libra89 and 3 others like this.
    01-19-2016 12:57 AM
  8. luckygeezer's Avatar
    The bugs and defects threads for the 830 and 930 on WPC (on WPC alone!) number 564 and 860 comments respectively. Huge numbers. If that doesn't suggest to you that something is not quite right with quality control, then I feel genuinely sorry for you!
    As far as calling someone a MS employee just because they make a comment that does not appeal to your needs is just asinine.
    So you think calling someone a MS employee is asinine? Well what do you call people who deliberately sell faulty expensive phones then? Sticks and stones may break bones but words never hurt anyone! MS should not sell products which are unreliable because that has the potential to cause harm.
    As far as eliminating all problems before selling the phones, that is physically impossible as these are electronic devices. a faulty battery or processor or memory chip can lead to all sort of bugs and phone issues that would appear to be software related. Microsoft, like all other production companies do not have the time to test all devices that flow down the conveyor belt, so they sample. They pick devices at random and test them. If there are no noticeable bugs, they ship.
    Good grief! That's why the 830 and 930 are expensive! MS should make the time to check products they sell to customers! Faulty battery so not the fault of MS? Nonsense! Check it first and only use batteries which are not faulty!

    You seem to be ultra sensitive GMj. I didn't call you an MS employee did I? Why so aggressive? You seem to speak for MS because you know so much about their production line techniques! Are you a MS employee? It wouldn't be surprising considering the close links between WPC and MS! Don't be so naive. People write about Windows phones on WPC because they realise that it might be a way to communicate with MS, like writing an open letter to a newspaper. Get with it GMj and calm down. Why are you so defensive? You cannot possibly defend what cannot be defended all by yourself.
    jpminou likes this.
    01-19-2016 01:59 AM
  9. Pete's Avatar
    The bugs and defects threads for the 830 and 930 on WPC (on WPC alone!) number 564 and 860 comments respectively. Huge numbers. If that doesn't suggest to you that something is not quite right with quality control, then I feel genuinely sorry for you!
    You'd actually need to read the entirety of those threads to make a fair assessment of the amount of issues with those handsets and take into account the tendency of commenters on the internet to complain ad nauseum. There's also a huge amount of comments that aren't related to issues of handsets, but complaints about Windows Phone 8.1, Windows 10 Mobile, Microsoft, Google, Apple, the neighbour's cat, etc., etc.
    ashram, libra89, xandros9 and 5 others like this.
    01-19-2016 02:17 AM
  10. ashram's Avatar
    Wow, never been called an ms employee... But by those standards, every phone manufacturer is a pile of crap too, as most are on a yearly cycle, including Samsung and apple. As for "counting" every problem post in the 830 thread, I call bs. Many of those problems were rectified when the full version of Denim came out. Being a former 830 owner that actively participated on that board for the 5 months I owned it, I think I have a better grasp if that situation. Why did I own it for only 5 months? My 920 took a nosedive and the screen shattered and I picked it up to hold me over until the 950 was released. Once I had my 950 in hand, I sold my 830.

    Now as far as your "name calling" because someone has a different opinion than you.... I have been called significantly worse things by people that actually know me. While I am NOT an ms employee, I have been a Windows phone user since Windows Mobile 5. I have had iphones in the past as a secondary device, and have a low end Android phone as a secondary phone now. Guess what? They have all been buggy in the past. Even had an iPhone think it was overheating in a network cold room and shut itself down. I have been the gatekeeper for byod at a largish enterprise network (6000+ employees) so yeah, I value my opinion well over the rants you have provided without thinking about the fact that almost every device goes eol eventually, some faster than others.

    Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't make it right.
    01-19-2016 03:00 AM
  11. luckygeezer's Avatar
    Are you a moderator in disguise Pete? I'm 67 and have time to look at threads like the bugs and defects before buying. That's because I want to avoid bad phones eating into my old age pension. Don't try watering down my valid remarks! Such lengthy threads are indicative of multiple problems that new phones should not have and as I said, WPC is not the only website critical of MS quality control. I came bearing the gift of my money for 2 phones but I leave dismayed at the attitude of MS and WPC. MS and WPC are Siamese twins and so I have tested the WP water before buying thoroughly. Samsung have not impressed me either because there are issues with them too. I shall avoid both of them due to the lack of trust issues and iphone will be avoided because of price. Right now I have crossed all 3 off my shopping list. Can you recommend a decent manufacturer which possesses all the attributes which MS, Samsung and iphone currently lack? My wife and I need a buttery smooth OS with a 13 MP main camera and a decent front camera with decent apps for facebook, Line, twitter.
    jpminou likes this.
    01-19-2016 03:19 AM
  12. ashram's Avatar
    You do realize that WPC is a windows fan site correct? That is like going to Android central or imore and complaining that they are "Siamese twins" of their respected OS'. Unfortunately, there is no perfect mobile OS, just one that has most of the features you like.
    RumoredNow, N_LaRUE and a5cent like this.
    01-19-2016 03:27 AM
  13. luckygeezer's Avatar
    Hi Ash. You seem to want to defend MS to the extent that love ❤ has made you blind. Early EOL happens because products are crap. 820 and 520 phones are still available because they are both great. The natural replacement for 820 is 830 I figured but the lack of availability means I must look elsewhere. I criticise MS and WP when they deserve criticism. I have heaped praise on the 820 and the 520 and many Nokias before them in my initial post. Credit where it is due. Criticism where it is due. A balanced thread and I commend it to you and others seeking a decent phone.
    Skamath and jpminou like this.
    01-19-2016 03:38 AM
  14. Pete's Avatar
    I am a moderator, there's no disguise there. I'm also a Microsoft MVP. I'm also in my late 40's and been involved in online communities since the old dial-up days. I've been around a while and know how people are on the internet - a lot of them like to type, and complaining about something generates more discussion than praising something (and people who are generally happy seldom jump on the internet to say so, they just get on with life). As long as the internet has existed, there has been a general rule - the internet will give you what you're searching for. If you look for problems with something, you'll find stacks of results. You also don't have to believe everything you read.

    The issues that people have with their phones are largely subjective - some things that don't cause concern to some people are huge things to other people. Yes, there are sometimes manufacturing defects, but the same thing happens with just about any manufactured product.

    You need to be subjective and read reviews and comments with your own needs in mind. If you're interested in either of these handsets, then buy one and try it out and make your own mind up. If you're not satisfied, then return it as not fit for purpose.

    In essence, don't let the internet tell you how to think, you're old enough and wise enough to do that for yourself.
    01-19-2016 03:42 AM
  15. Rupert Holmes's Avatar
    I did and did. I will keep using Win 8.1 Nokia 1020.
    Had the XL from 11/24/2015 until 01/12/2016 waiting for MS to fix the little things, LTE, Double tap, visual Voice Mail. It is sad, nice hardware.

    Refund confirmation
    Thanks for shopping with Microsoft.
    At your request, we've issued a credit for the amount shown below. Your credit may not appear until your next billing cycle.
    luckygeezer likes this.
    01-19-2016 10:11 AM
  16. xandros9's Avatar
    Just wanted to say that EOL basically means the phone is no longer produced. the 930 isn't being made because its a 2014 phone and the 950 replaces it.

    The 830 too probably.

    Regardless, one can always pick them up for less used or new from somewhere else.

    And the phones aren't being abandoned, its just like how Apple stops manufacturing iPhone models that no longer fit in the most-recent-three lineup.
    01-19-2016 10:47 AM
  17. patcherd's Avatar
    Hi Ash. You seem to want to defend MS to the extent that love ❤ has made you blind. Early EOL happens because products are crap. .
    I would totally disagree with that statement. My first smartphone was a Nokia Lumia 810 which to this day was the smoothest windows phone i have used to date.
    It was EOL within six months if i remember correctly.
    That was a very good phone.
    Last edited by xandros9; 01-19-2016 at 01:04 PM.
    luckygeezer likes this.
    01-19-2016 11:10 AM
  18. LondonLumia's Avatar
    Of course you'll see a lot of reports about bugs online on a site such as this - it should go without saying that a person with a bug is (understandably) much more likely to be vocal about it online than the dozens of people in proportion that haven't got that bug to declare.

    Check out reviews on places such as Amazon - you'll see a good mix of complaints and appraisal and it gives a much broader view of the quality of a product than a tech forum, which is a go-to-place for issues.
    01-19-2016 11:24 AM
  19. ashram's Avatar
    Of course you'll see a lot of reports about bugs online on a site such as this - it should go without saying that a person with a bug is (understandably) much more likely to be vocal about it online than the dozens of people in proportion that haven't got that bug to declare.
    .
    Exactly this! also, some people created new posts about their issue instead of joining in an already ongoing discussion.

    Hi Ash. You seem to want to defend MS to the extent that love ❤ has made you blind. Early EOL happens because products are crap. 820 and 520 phones are still available because they are both great. The natural replacement for 820 is 830 I figured but the lack of availability means I must look elsewhere. I criticise MS and WP when they deserve criticism. I have heaped praise on the 820 and the 520 and many Nokias before them in my initial post. Credit where it is due. Criticism where it is due. A balanced thread and I commend it to you and others seeking a decent phone.
    The 820's and 520's are no longer produced and not available new in the US. They have both been EOL for a long while now. That's like saying the iphone 4 or Galaxy S2 is still available. They have been EOL for years and no longer produced. Some shops may still have some stock, but overall, those numbers are almost so minuscule that they don't really count.

    Also, not blind, I have mentioned before, I have dabbled in other ecosystems (I even still have a still working N-Gage that I take to CES every year to get a laugh out of people)I am just NOT a fan of Apple at all, and to me, android has a long way to go for stability for my needs (long term use without having to start from scratch) I have done backup and restores from a 920, to an 830 to my 950 with almost no issue (being the 1-2 windows 10 issues I have, which I have mentioned in other posts).

    EDIT: you know what, this thread is better suited in phone wars as the ops reasoning to not buy a 950 is the fact that the 830 and 930 are EOL and the windows 10 bugs. anyone attempting to explain with logic and well, fact, is met with blind resistance and called a blind MS lover. If the op wants to sit and complain and not listen to anyone, then what bother posting on a public forum?
    Last edited by ashram; 01-19-2016 at 12:13 PM. Reason: requesting this get moved to phone wars.
    Player Piano likes this.
    01-19-2016 12:05 PM
  20. Player Piano's Avatar
    I honestly like my L950 a great deal. I am just anxious for the few bugs I have to be gone. I am not dealing with anything major here. Just email rendering & live tiles, a more consistent alarm, and some random reboots. I get a random reboot maybe once every 3-5 days. So for me, I can live with these bugs because I know they will be corrected soon, at least I hope.
    luckygeezer likes this.
    01-19-2016 12:14 PM
  21. jpminou's Avatar
    If ur searching for a good phone try Sony Xperia Z5.
    01-19-2016 12:20 PM
  22. speccy's Avatar
    Pick up a 930 on Ebay, good price, excellent handset, runs Windows 10 very well too. I always buy my family's phones second hand (but in excellent condition), as buying them new is just ridiculous (to me). Anxiously waiting until I can pick up a 950 on Ebay for around 200. Already saw one yesterday which has now sold for 275, so hopefully not too long to wait, but wait I will, as Windows phones suit me best.
    01-19-2016 12:34 PM
  23. Player Piano's Avatar
    Are you a moderator in disguise Pete? I'm 67 and have time to look at threads like the bugs and defects before buying. That's because I want to avoid bad phones eating into my old age pension. Don't try watering down my valid remarks! Such lengthy threads are indicative of multiple problems that new phones should not have and as I said, WPC is not the only website critical of MS quality control. I came bearing the gift of my money for 2 phones but I leave dismayed at the attitude of MS and WPC. MS and WPC are Siamese twins and so I have tested the WP water before buying thoroughly. Samsung have not impressed me either because there are issues with them too. I shall avoid both of them due to the lack of trust issues and iphone will be avoided because of price. Right now I have crossed all 3 off my shopping list. Can you recommend a decent manufacturer which possesses all the attributes which MS, Samsung and iphone currently lack? My wife and I need a buttery smooth OS with a 13 MP main camera and a decent front camera with decent apps for facebook, Line, twitter.
    Have you checked out the Nokia Lumia 730? I have the dual-sim version which I purchased in Thailand, and that is one stellar phone for the price. Silky smooth and I don’t recall ever reading about many quality issues with that particular phone. I could be wrong though.
    RumoredNow, luckygeezer and v535 like this.
    01-19-2016 12:38 PM
  24. rollindice's Avatar
    I live in Caribbean, they don't stock Windows Phone here , only one store I've found Windows Phones, I been using Windows Phone for quite sometime, came from Nokia N8,Lumia 920,1020,830 & 930 and now Lumia 950,I along with my friends purchase from stores online unlocked since that's option we have. I usually purchase at Amazon,1Shopmobile, Expansys-USA , I know the phones aren't available at your local stores on payment plans but i'm sure you can get them online,I know Microsoft is focusing their efforts in certain markets, so I know we won't have Microsoft Store here anytime soon, but I've converted many persons in Windows Phones from Android and others. approximately 35 or so, 20 or so from work. Those converts also love what Microsoft offers.
    luckygeezer likes this.
    01-19-2016 01:42 PM
  25. Dan TheMan86's Avatar
    I've been around a while and know how people are on the internet - a lot of them like to type, and complaining about something generates more discussion than praising something (and people who are generally happy seldom jump on the internet to say so, they just get on with life). As long as the internet has existed, there has been a general rule - the internet will give you what you're searching for. If you look for problems with something, you'll find stacks of results. You also don't have to believe everything you read.

    The issues that people have with their phones are largely subjective - some things that don't cause concern to some people are huge things to other people. Yes, there are sometimes manufacturing defects, but the same thing happens with just about any manufactured product.
    I just don't remember seeing all the negative posts, comments, and reviews about the Lumia 920 back in 2012/2013.
    01-19-2016 02:00 PM
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