Would you still buy a L950?

[mweflen]

I just went to see "Hamilton" last night with my wife. Comparing the selfie photos in front of the theater marquee, mine (taken with 950) handles the low light backdrop (night time in the city) and the challenging foreground lighting (using HDR flash to fill in people as we're standing in front of a lit marquee) way better than all the iPhone versions our friends took. They look dark and mushy, even with the iPhone's weak flash trying to compensate.

So yeah, I'm still glad I got it. I don't think it was ever a $500-plus phone. But at $300? Heck, yeah. It's not a perfect phone, but in my experience (4 months on Release Preview Ring) it gets average battery life, performs well on various apps, has good call quality, and takes best in class photos. If the "app gap" is your personal bane, it's not for you. W10M versions of apps tend to lag behind the others on features and performance, and some are just missing, of course. But I prioritize camera over the latest and greatest apps.

 

[mattiasnyc]

I just used continuum for the first time. I set up my work space so that an old spare keyboard and spare trackball hooks into the dock and my main monitor goes through a KVM switch. It's actually quite neat. No, it won't give me a true desktop experience, but that's ok. Rather than having to fire up my computer when checking email, text, weather etc in the morning I know just sit down and turn on the monitor and can access all of that on a nice screen, with my coffee, before work. That's pretty much what I expected at this point, and it's nice. I like the fact that I can type a reasonable size email with a keyboard without having to use the touch keyboard.

 

[sidtek50]

I just used continuum for the first time. I set up my work space so that an old spare keyboard and spare trackball hooks into the dock and my main monitor goes through a KVM switch. It's actually quite neat. No, it won't give me a true desktop experience, but that's ok. Rather than having to fire up my computer when checking email, text, weather etc in the morning I know just sit down and turn on the monitor and can access all of that on a nice screen, with my coffee, before work. That's pretty much what I expected at this point, and it's nice. I like the fact that I can type a reasonable size email with a keyboard without having to use the touch keyboard.

Not trying to diss continuum much here but a modern PC with Windows 10 and an SSD can start and be logged in, in approx 10-15 seconds. Continuum is a great idea but I think it's redundant for most. I personally would love to see the day when a phone IS a computer and can do everything my PC can, but I think Continuum felt like a tech demo of what could be possible in future. I have returned my 950, but I used continuum about 3 times in 8 weeks and ended up getting frustrated and going back to my desktop.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Not trying to diss continuum much here but a modern PC with Windows 10 and an SSD can start and be logged in, in approx 10-15 seconds.

That doesn't apply to my computer however. Further more I don't fancy turning on my work computer to fire off a few emails and check the weather only to then shut it down 5-10 minutes later. It's filled with hard drives and PCIe cards (all for work) and slurps electricity like crazy. Also, if I've got the phone charging anyway why wouldn't I just turn on the screen?

Continuum is a great idea but I think it's redundant for most. I personally would love to see the day when a phone IS a computer and can do everything my PC can, but I think Continuum felt like a tech demo of what could be possible in future.

I never expected a fully featured desktop experience, and I knew it was the beginning of something else. As a concept this is the future I think, ultimately.

 

[Karen DeGregory]

I just bought one as part of the bogo offer from Microsoft. I absolutely love the phone. Very fluid UI. Great pictures. Light weight and fits nicely in my hand. I have every capability I could need as far as apps go. What's not to like for $250?

 

[Artichoke]

love my Lumia 950
my only gripes are really quibbles & more than likely user error
the camera amazes me as does its audio system
first rate integration with my desk box & other devices, even including my beloved HP Touchpad!!!
now if they could only design a real keyboard smartphone in a compact body (think HP Veer) with a great camera, I would get it in a heartbeat
no one makes such & there is a market, particularly at the high end

 

[StayClassy101]

I had the 650, and loved that device but was underwhelming on playing games. Not so much on running them.but the amount of time to get them going. After awhile I got used to it, but then I found the Lumia 950 being sold here and bought it. Best decision ever, continuum is awesome and convenient. The camera is stellar and the focus is amazing especially when capturing moving objects. Overall performance I have found to be fluid with no stuttering or lag whatsoever. Games load instantly and Facebook as well as Instagram work the way they should. Many people pick a device based on apps. I'm the type of person who chooses apps if they support my platform. So things like Snapchat don't matter to me.

 

[sidtek50]

That doesn't apply to my computer however. Further more I don't fancy turning on my work computer to fire off a few emails and check the weather only to then shut it down 5-10 minutes later. It's filled with hard drives and PCIe cards (all for work) and slurps electricity like crazy. Also, if I've got the phone charging anyway why wouldn't I just turn on the screen?

I never expected a fully featured desktop experience, and I knew it was the beginning of something else. As a concept this is the future I think, ultimately.

I get that and I can understand how it's useful in that very specific instance, but Continuum, if we're honest, has been a bit of a failure from what I see. If i'm honest, I haven't even seen Lumia's out in the wild (well, I saw a 640 recently, but it was an old, battered, used model). The uptake on continuum is very low. I'd love to see figures on how many people actually use it; I guarantee it'll be a tiny percentage. Why does that matter? Well I personally think Microsoft will end up dropping continuum.

I read an article on this site that said the blogger approached someone from Microsoft's development division and asked about continuum and the developer didn't know what continuum was. That could just be that they aren't working on it, but we have to look a bit deeper than that. That, is quite frankly, disturbing. Imagine you're a huge global company and one of your developers don't know what your companies' mobile phones are capable of?

And this really is why i've decided to temporarily leave W10M. I'd consider coming back, but I just felt like the mobile division is literally in the hands of 10 developers who are locked away in the deepest, darkest depths of Microsoft's basement. Can you imagine if you asked an Apple developer what Siri was, or what iMessage was and they didn't know? That's just how it feels as an end user.

One other thing to think about. We've just witnessed a statement from Blackberry saying that they're going to become a software company only because they lost the phone wars. Microsoft have said they're only focussing on business customers; these are telltale signs that things like Continuum have limited time left. No company is going to be using continuum for anything. And seeing as Microsoft were throwing in a "free" display dock with their recent Lumia sales.... Everything I see from Microsoft at the moment says that they're desperately trying to clear stock, ditch continuum and try again when the Surface Phone hits.

That's just my (long-winded) opinion about Microsoft's current situation.

 

[mattiasnyc]

I get that and I can understand how it's useful in that very specific instance, but Continuum, if we're honest, has been a bit of a failure from what I see. If i'm honest, I haven't even seen Lumia's out in the wild (well, I saw a 640 recently, but it was an old, battered, used model). The uptake on continuum is very low. I'd love to see figures on how many people actually use it; I guarantee it'll be a tiny percentage.

It's a brand new feature that requires a rethink and an adaptation of what people use. Why would you expect a large percentage of users? And why would you care? Why would I care? It works for me, and that's what matters to me. I'm just not sure I understand just how people get from "I don't like it and I haven't seen anyone else use it" to "failure".

Why does that matter? Well I personally think Microsoft will end up dropping continuum.

I don't think MS will drop it. If they continue to develop functionality for the next major update or two then clearly not.

I read an article on this site that said the blogger approached someone from Microsoft's development division and asked about continuum and the developer didn't know what continuum was. That could just be that they aren't working on it, but we have to look a bit deeper than that. That, is quite frankly, disturbing. Imagine you're a huge global company and one of your developers don't know what your companies' mobile phones are capable of?

And this really is why i've decided to temporarily leave W10M. I'd consider coming back, but I just felt like the mobile division is literally in the hands of 10 developers who are locked away in the deepest, darkest depths of Microsoft's basement. Can you imagine if you asked an Apple developer what Siri was, or what iMessage was and they didn't know? That's just how it feels as an end user.

Ever heard of a blogger not speaking the truth? Ever heard of someone misunderstanding something and then expressing it less than clearly? No offense, but that blogger could have expressed himself as unclearly as you did earlier, so somewhere on the web there may be a person referencing your posts saying "This user said that Win 10 Mobile doesn't even have a slider for display brightness!", and he'd be right about what he read, but wrong about the fact. Don't trust everything you read. Heck, we just had an election here in the US..... just sayin'....

One other thing to think about. We've just witnessed a statement from Blackberry saying that they're going to become a software company only because they lost the phone wars. Microsoft have said they're only focussing on business customers; these are telltale signs that things like Continuum have limited time left. No company is going to be using continuum for anything. And seeing as Microsoft were throwing in a "free" display dock with their recent Lumia sales.... Everything I see from Microsoft at the moment says that they're desperately trying to clear stock, ditch continuum

If you're talking about businesses you have to consider that their cycle of hardware and software purchases are quite long. Just because Windows 10 is out they're not going to upgrade, same thing with W10M. So as I keep saying, it's a new functionality that is slowly developing and people probably need to try it to find it useful. I actually think there are plenty of people and businesses that would benefit from the technology / functionality in principle and in practice, and the question is simply if they actually will try it out or not, and if so when. Focusing on business makes sense from that standpoint and that's why HP's lineup makes sense.

As for specific use-cases, I'm sure we can come up with plenty where it makes sense. Suppose you're equipping a fleet of 1,000 workers with smartphones and workstations; why double up on 'computers' if you don't have to? If the work itself doesn't require a separate lap- or desktop then why not just save the money from that actual computer purchase and buy the screen, mouse, keyboard and dock instead? I mean, seriously - what could you possibly gain from doubling-up on computing if you don't have to do that? Could be people using Excel or writers using predominantly Word, or whatever runs or will run smoothly on it. In addition you'd be carrying your work with you wherever you go, backed up on OneDrive maybe, and all protected using Iris recognition. So there are definitely use-cases imaginable. The only question is if people can "get them". They certainly won't if we keep telling them there never are good reasons to use it.

MS discounting their phones and possibly clearing stock is probably another thing that makes sense. They created this technology and provided sample phones that work well using it. But ultimately MS needs partners like Alcatel, HP etc, and the latter need to be able to make a nice profit on their products. So MS needs to sell what they can to grow the market as much as they can and also leave room for the other developers. Additionally, they can't keep selling the 950/950XL at the same price when newer phones come out with better specs.

An opinion I read that I happen to agree with is the rhetorical question "How many phone models do we really need?". Look at Apple's lineup; fewer than W10M phones on the market (last time I checked). Works great for Apple, so why are we assuming that it can't work for MS? Why does MS have to have a huge amount of phones available when Apple doesn't? Or, rather, why is having fewer W10M phones a sign that they're giving up and also ditching Continuum?

Sorry, but all this talk about the death of W10 Mobile just reads like a bunch of people making an effort to interpret any and all things as negatively as possible. It apparently doesn't matter that the next Redstone will develop Continuum further or that Nadella said MS isn't leaving Mobile or Continuum behind.

and try again when the Surface Phone hits.

At this point it's still if it hits. But let's say it does next year, say around the fall; we will still have Continuum at that point and then as they're trying again with a new Surface Phone it'll likely have been developed further, so even by your own reasoning it seems it's not abandoned at all, nor will it be.

 

[BerleenPass]

I recently bought a L650. While I found the design and size to be amazing the performance is really underwhelming. I want something more powerful so I'm considering the move up to a L950.

How do you like yours? Does it run fast? Even if you don't one, is it still with a purchase for under $200 a year after release?

I haven't tried purchasing a Lumia phones but I am eyeing for one because I'm convince by the so many good and positive reviews that it has a very powerful camera. Aside from that, they describe it as a good device.

 

[sidtek50]

mattiasnyc - I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I can't fathom how you think W10M isn't a failure. Even Satya said "we clearly missed the mobile, there's no question" source: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/satya-nadella-clearly-missed-mobile-071551059.html. Having been on the crackberry forums, i've seen some people defending the crap out of Blackberry when Blackberry themselves have said they messed up. I'm hoping this forum doesn't turn into the same thing. Microsoft have made minimal progress on the OS and thought they'd bundle in continuum and that would somehow make it a "must have" rather than a "feature". Before you start looking at continuum, the OS must be absolutely rock solid. I'll come back to this bit in my last paragraph.

In that very same article, it mentions Continuum, but with Windows mobile devices making up less than 1% of the market...worldwide - you have to look at this from a business perspective - not a ****** perspective which you appear to be looking at it from. It defies all logic to be stubborn and keep developing continuum in its current form. Why on earth would you develop something used by a fraction of the miniscule 1% of the market share you have? And it's an even smaller fraction still because not all Windows phones can use continuum.

I fully admit, when I had my 950, I was looking at it with ******-goggles on. I defended it to my friends when it would lag, or it would freeze. I defended it when it sent an email to colleagues without an attachment. Once you step back and look at it objectively, the phone was almost like a beta device, used to test people's response to it. In fact, if you can be bothered to read this long-winded review, the conclusion says the same thing: Microsoft Lumia 950 review: Verdict | TechRadar

So, following on from what I said at the end of the first paragraph. Imagine Apple put out MacOS "continuum". It would blow Microsoft's continuum out of the water and kill W10M for good. Why? Because their OS is rock solid. They have all the apps. Facebook doesn't work on W10M's continuum. Let that sink in. One of the biggest websites in the entire world and it doesn't work on continuum - you have to use Edge. Want to use firefox? can't do that. Chrome? Nope, can't use that either.

We could argue all day over how good continuum is, but you have to look at it without ******-goggles and assess how useful it really is. Why would you fire up continuum to write an email and go off it? You wouldn't. Why would you plug in continuum and surf the web - you wouldn't. Edge is absolute trash (no plugins, no pop-up blockers etc etc). Believe it or not, I don't hate Microsoft. I actually worked for HP and there was a strong partnership with Microsoft. I'm not a fan of Satya, but he really hit the nail on the head when he said they missed mobile. I think they missed it by a long shot. I hope Microsoft can somehow get back into the race, but something very, very radical is going to need to happen *cough*replace Satya*cough*.

 

[mattiasnyc]

mattiasnyc - I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I can't fathom how you think W10M isn't a failure. Even Satya said "we clearly missed the mobile, there's no question"

It depends on how you define "failure", and since you brought it up "missed". If the goal was to take a larger market share and become a huge vendor of their own smartphones running W10M then clearly MS missed that goal and from that standpoint it's a failure of MS to hit that goal. To the actual user it is not necessarily the same thing - that's the point I keep trying to get you to acknowledge. When you and other use words like "disaster", "failure" etc in conjunction with W10M and the specific smartphones, people who don't yet have the phones have no idea if you're talking about MS missing an internal goal or about the technology itself.

But it actually gets "worse", because if we're talking about the future of W10M and Continuum, and your quote above is your evidence, there's an even bigger issue:

1: Your article is from October this year, not recently.
2: You chose to pick out the one comment by Nadella that seemed to support your view,
3: While ignoring the rest of the article which supports my view, namely:

"Still, Microsoft isn't completely out of the phone business yet ? Windows Phone accounts for less than 1 percent of the smartphone market worldwide ? and Nadella said that he sees Microsoft's role as one where the company can provide niche value. He referenced the company's Continuum feature, which allows phones with Windows 10 to act as a PC when connected to a display."

See? A much more nuanced view when one stops cherry-picking from the article. And from a more recent interview:

"we think about the mobility of the human being across all of the devices, not just the mobility of a single device. That said, we?re not stepping away or back from our focus on our mobile devices. What we are going to do is focus that effort on places where we have differentiation. If you take Windows Phone, where we are differentiated on Windows Phone is on manageability. It?s security, it?s Continuum capability ? that is, the ability to have a phone that can act like a PC. So we?re going to double-down on those points of differentiation.?

And one slightly earlier:

?We don?t want to be driven by just envy of what others have, the question is, what can we bring? That?s where I look at any device form factor or any technology, even AI. We will continue to be in the phone market not as defined by today?s market leaders, but by what it is that we can uniquely do in what is the most ultimate mobile device,?

?Therefore [with Nokia assets], we stopped doing things that were me-too and started doing things, even if they are today very sub-scale, to be very focused on a specific set of customers who need a specific set of capabilities that are differentiated and that we can do a good job of.?

I had a friend tell me how W10M was completely abandoned, and after telling him that there was a brand new smartphone out (HPX3), with a dock for continuum, with a "dumb" laptop available, with a mouse and keyboard, with top-notch specs, the same week a major update came out for the OS.... he still said it was abandoned. If I talked to him again today about this, with yet another phone launched, with a VR accessory, and after yet another update, with Nadella saying support and development will continue.... he will still say it is abandoned. Some people just can't be convinced no matter what.

Having been on the crackberry forums, i've seen some people defending the crap out of Blackberry when Blackberry themselves have said they messed up. I'm hoping this forum doesn't turn into the same thing.

And I hope this forum doesn't turn into some people attacking the crap out of W10M when they have abandoned the platform / phone and moved on. Know what I mean? Just because the Lumia 950 / W10M / Continuum isn't for you doesn't mean it isn't for me, or that it's 'dying'. I'm more than happy to discuss the specifics of the device and software, but all these doom-and-gloom predictions based on cherry-picked articles and supposed encounters by bloggers are getting a bit tedious.

In that very same article, it mentions Continuum, but with Windows mobile devices making up less than 1% of the market...worldwide - you have to look at this from a business perspective - not a ****** perspective which you appear to be looking at it from. It defies all logic to be stubborn and keep developing continuum in its current form. Why on earth would you develop something used by a fraction of the miniscule 1% of the market share you have? And it's an even smaller fraction still because not all Windows phones can use continuum.

Using that logic we wouldn't have seen the HP X3, and we wouldn't have seen the Alcatel, and we won't see any further development at all. None. Zero. Zilch. All current vendors of W10M products should cease production and support immediately because the market is so tiny. Yet we haven't seen that yet, have we?

You, like other critics, appear to now be missing the bigger picture by a mile. Look at how MS developed W10M and continuum. It's not like a developer has to spend an incredible amount of time and money to develop for it IF that developer has already developed for W10 UWP. That's the point of the larger strategy when it comes to the technology itself, it allows for a fairly simple transition from UWP to Continuum. You can complain all you want about a lack of perceived focus on W10M, but it'll still reap the benefits of other developments.

I fully admit, when I had my 950, I was looking at it with ******-goggles on. I defended it to my friends when it would lag, or it would freeze. I defended it when it sent an email to colleagues without an attachment.

Once it does that to me I'll "attack" it. Until it does any of those things I won't.

 

[mattiasnyc]

The following really deserves its own post I think, because it's quite illuminating in my opinion:

Once you step back and look at it objectively, the phone was almost like a beta device, used to test people's response to it. In fact, if you can be bothered to read this long-winded review, the conclusion says the same thing: Microsoft Lumia 950 review: Verdict | TechRadar

Ok, just to prove a point I'll first concede that after I read that the camera on the Lumia 950 apparently isn't good enough I just wanted to stop reading anything this writer has written for this website, because I think that's a ridiculous view. But, in the spirit of being fair and balanced I figured, hey, why don't I read more of of his? Sounds good? Ok, so with that in mind;

let's try to be even-handed here, and look at the phone and OS apparently coming off as being "beta", and consider the following:

So, following on from what I said at the end of the first paragraph. Imagine Apple put out MacOS "continuum". It would blow Microsoft's continuum out of the water and kill W10M for good. Why? Because their OS is rock solid.

I moved along to search the author Matt Swider's articles and found a 6-day old entry called "iOS 10 problems: Here's how to fix the most common issues". The topics are:

- iOS 10.1.1 battery issues... "we've been experiencing poor iOS 10 battery life, and with the recent release of iOS 10.0.2, these problems remain."

- iOS 10 bricking phones... "the final launch of iOS 10 has bricked a number of iPhones and iPads. That's disheartening for Apple fans after a solid three-month beta."

- iOS 10 Wi-Fi and Bluetooth issues... "This problem creeps up every year, and sadly it's no different with iOS 10. Even after Apple released iOS 10.0.2m people are still experiencing Wi-Fi and Bluetooth problems."

- How to stop Messages installing other apps...

- iOS 10 crashes when sending messages

- iPhone stops vibrating after updating to iOS 10... "Some people have noticed that their iPhones no longer vibrate in iOS 10 when they receive messages. "

- iOS 10 home button... "iOS 10 changes the home button functionality now that 'Slide to Unlock' is no more. It actually makes you press in on the Touch ID fingerprint sensor."

- Touch ID stops working in iOS 10... "If Touch ID has stopped working, and you can't configure it after upgrading to iOS 10, then try the following:"

- Your iPhone loses cellular network and can't reconnect

- iOS 10 cellular network problems

- iOS 10 uses lots of mobile data

- No iMessage notifications in iOS 10

- iMessage effects aren't working in iOS 10

- Cannot delete apps in iOS 10

- Third party keyboard don't work in iOS 10

- Purchased ringtones have vanished in iOS 10

- Alarms are not working in iOS 10

- iPhone screen no longer works

- Device gets hot when charging after iOS 10 update

- Photo albums no longer sync in iOS 10

- Playlists appear empty after updating to iOS 10

- Emails don't appear in iOS 10 Mail app

Phew..... and then it ends with: "More iOS 10 problems and fixes. We're in the first days of Apple's new operating system availability, and we can guarantee that there will be more iOS 10 problems discovered." !!!


But it's the Lumia 950 that's "beta"!!!....


Let's just be honest here: The Microsoft smartphones are held to a VASTLY different standard than iOS or Android devices. We can discuss the benefits or drawbacks of soft-/hardware design, and discuss the actual success or failure of the implementation of those technologies, but when we compare we should be clear and state just what parameters we use and where we expect them to be set to consider something a "failure" or a "success", or a "beta" device or something "great" or whatever.

There's clearly a double-standard at work here. "Fanboys" can see it whereas others apparently cannot.

 

[sidtek50]

All you've done there is just post a large bunch of alleged issues with iOS 10? If I really wanted to and had the time, I could dig up hundreds of threads whereby people have issues with W10M.

 

[Simon Edmunds]

I had the 650 and whilst is was a nice phone, I too found the performance a bit lacking for my needs. I got a 950xl to replace it and haven't regretted it at all. So far as my daily driver phone it has been pretty much flawless. I am very happy with this phone so far and the camera is amazing. I still get people commenting on how good the pictures are when I have taken them. The phone still doesn't feel sluggish and everything works well despite this phone being over a year old now. Given that you can pick up a 950 pretty cheap now I would say go for it! Hope this helps!

 

[libra89]

All you've done there is just post a large bunch of alleged issues with iOS 10? If I really wanted to and had the time, I could dig up hundreds of threads whereby people have issues with W10M.

To be fair, some of these are issues that I have experienced with my iPhone after updating.

However, I do agree with you though. To me, you have serious issues when your phone is failing at doing basic smartphone functions!

 

[mattiasnyc]

All you've done there is just post a large bunch of alleged issues with iOS 10? If I really wanted to and had the time, I could dig up hundreds of threads whereby people have issues with W10M.

You pick the standard for evaluation then.

If you go back and read you'll notice that you linked to that other author and appealed to his authority. You then implied that iOS was in much better shape. The very same source showed all the similarly alleged issues with iOS. It is not me who is saying that this guy is a legitimate source, it is you who are doing so. Surely if he's good enough to apparently convince us that W10M is apparently like a beta, then why wouldn't he be equally trustworthy when he points out these problems with iOS? Please explain that to me.

Like I said, you can pick the standard if you want to and we can take it from there, but at least stick to one standard, not a 'double'.

 

[mweflen]

I think what it comes down to is how many flaws you're willing to put up with for the benefits. What are the benefits? As far as I can tell, the only ones with universal agreement are that: 1. Live Tiles are fun; and that 2. camera performance on high-end Lumias is competitive with the best iOS and Android phones.

So how much is that worth to you? The flaws are 1. lack of apps; 2. reduced feature set of apps that do exist; 3. lack of accessories due to low sales; 4. lack of "wow factor" due to low adoption; 5. bugginess and/or lack of integration of features by W10M team.

Now, every company suffers from #5. Let's just establish that now. My wife has an iPhone 6 that won't accurately report her battery status to her. Samsung phones... let's not even get started.

So it's fun and customizable live tiles and good camera performance vs. "app gap" and lack of prestige. The answer to the original question will depend on which of these you value more. There are no wrong answers, only individual ones.

 

[mattiasnyc]

To be fair, some of these are issues that I have experienced with my iPhone after updating.

However, I do agree with you though. To me, you have serious issues when your phone is failing at doing basic smartphone functions!

That's not the point at all. The point is that he appealed to authority, this particular author. All I did was show what else the author had uncovered. We can dismiss all of the issues of iOS that the author brought up, but then why should we trust him when he says W10M feels like a beta release?

As for "failing at doing basic smartphone functions", those are the ones I marked in bold and red. They're very serious issues. But like I said, if we're completely honest there are tons of users that give Apple a pass on issues all day long because the iPhone, iPad, iMac, iOS, OSX etc is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and anything that isn't working is merely an anomaly. So we can do the same, or we can be equally critical. That's all I'm saying.

And I'm also saying that the level of investigation and discourse should be higher and even.

 

[libra89]

You pick the standard for evaluation then.

If you go back and read you'll notice that you linked to that other author and appealed to his authority. You then implied that iOS was in much better shape. The very same source showed all the similarly alleged issues with iOS. It is not me who is saying that this guy is a legitimate source, it is you who are doing so. Surely if he's good enough to apparently convince us that W10M is apparently like a demo, then why wouldn't he be equally trustworthy when he points out these problems with iOS? Please explain that to me.

Like I said, you can pick the standard if you want to and we can take it from there, but at least stick to one standard, not a 'double'.

To me, sometimes updates can come with additional issues. On 8.1, I don't recall ever having to hard reset or be concerned about random restarts (for some reason, I have only had this issue with the 950, no other native W10M phone). The difference in stability between the two is something that cannot be denied. I kind of see it the same with iOS 10. iOS 9 has been just fine to me, so I downgraded my iPhone back there.