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01-09-2013 10:14 AM
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  1. stmav's Avatar
    I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but you do realize that Google has to pay licensing fees for EAS to Microsoft, right? Their competitor? It makes absolutely sense that they will not want to support a protocol of a competitor that they also have to pay for. It's a very simple business decision, I don't understand what the big fuss is about...
    Steve, I certainly don't deny any licensing or google's option not to pay it. Though they will continue for paying google customers. I was mainly rebutting the part that MS was telling him to screw off when it's google that's making the call.
    12-26-2012 11:42 AM
  2. arrowrand's Avatar
    Actually, it's google telling you to go screw because you want to use their services on a MS phone. They are the ones refusing to make apps and stopping EAS, not the other way around. If it means that much and you are this unhappy, android is obviously better and less stressful and less argumentative for you.
    My God, how quickly people are willing to forget.

    Back in the day, Internet Explorer owned the browser. Microsoft told web developers to code for IE or their sites wouldn't work for 95% of Internet users. They had the market share, they had the users and they fought every challenge to their dominance until they thought they couldn't lose.

    Now, Microsoft wants market share and users that someone else has. They want people like me to abandon what I have in favor of the same exact product that they offered when I had my Dell Axiom back in the day.

    That's not good enough any more. Needs change. People change. I used to have to have over 1,200 contacts because that was the only way that it could be done. Now I have the same contacts, but consolidated down to just under 400.

    Times change. People change. Products and services improve. Microsoft can improve, or Microsoft will continue to struggle for every inch of market share that they can gain.
    12-26-2012 11:52 AM
  3. stmav's Avatar
    Have a pleasant wpcentral day!
    12-26-2012 12:28 PM
  4. Big Supes's Avatar
    Since Google Contacts was never available outside of a Google account, I can only assume that you're stirring YouTube into the pot as well.

    That change happened 2 years or more after Google bought YouTube. Given that MS has owned Skype for just a little over a year it would likely be wise to wait and see what they do with it. At $8.5 billion, MS will do what they have to do to try to make that investment pay off.
    Sure, but given how Microsoft has handled the Xbox brand, I don't see any evidence to suggest they'll hold Skype and it's users hostage.

    Aside from that, you're insinuating that Microsoft's history is as pure as the driven snow. We both know that is as far from the truth as you can get.
    Microsoft have never claimed to have a halo over their HQ, unlike Google with their "Don't be evil" motto. Further more, speaking from personal experience, Microsoft have never imposed themselves on me in such a way (compared to the Youtube scenario). Neither have they hacked my web browser and stolen my privacy data.

    Two wrongs don't make a right and Microsoft's past doesn't justify Google's behavior today.
    a5cent likes this.
    12-26-2012 03:52 PM
  5. HeyCori's Avatar
    Microsoft have never claimed to have a halo over their HQ
    You sure about that?

    mshalo.jpg
    12-26-2012 04:21 PM
  6. imem's Avatar
    You sure about that?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Haha cool

    Skickat frn min HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e via Tapatalk 2
    12-26-2012 04:49 PM
  7. Big Supes's Avatar
    You sure about that?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ha!! Now that could look pretty cool.
    HeyCori likes this.
    12-26-2012 05:16 PM
  8. arrowrand's Avatar
    unlike Google with their "Don't be evil" motto.
    You don't even know what that means.
    12-26-2012 07:26 PM
  9. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Everyone knows what "Don't be evil" means. It means "feed our silly fanboys a line about how wonderful we are, while we read all their e-mails and track their movements with Google Now in an operation that would make the Stasi blush with shame, selling that deeply private data to advertisers, all while convincing said fanboys that we give them free services because we're just so nice and cool and stuff." :)
    a5cent and Big Supes like this.
    12-27-2012 02:17 AM
  10. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Oops, and I almost forgot the other half:

    "Whenever we're caught red-handed doing outrageous privacy violations that should probably be illegal, point to our motto as proof that our motives are pure, even though we've been caught flagrantly violating user rights."
    Big Supes likes this.
    12-27-2012 02:19 AM
  11. Big Supes's Avatar
    You don't even know what that means.
    It obviously has nothing to do with portraying morality to the consumer. Forgive my stupidity.

    Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express
    Last edited by Big Supes; 12-27-2012 at 09:19 AM.
    12-27-2012 07:23 AM
  12. crystal_planet's Avatar
    You don't even know what that means.
    Well, what does it mean then?
    12-27-2012 07:42 AM
  13. arrowrand's Avatar
    I'm gonna leave you guys to your hatred. Google, me or whatever else you find so distasteful.

    Its been fun, but arguing on the Internet is stupid, and I used to know better than to wade into a fanboy ******* match.

    Enjoy yourselves.
    12-27-2012 11:42 AM
  14. Lumis90's Avatar
    Well Microsoft shouldn't create MS Office for them then...still hackers will hack it and no money for Microsoft.
    12-27-2012 11:51 AM
  15. imem's Avatar
    I'm gonna leave you guys to your hatred. Google, me or whatever else you find so distasteful.

    Its been fun, but arguing on the Internet is stupid, and I used to know better than to wade into a fanboy ******* match.

    Enjoy yourselves.
    I feel with you on this.
    Not fun when arguments go bad I'm no fanboy but I don't like what Google are doing they forgotten where they came from

    What we can do is us other sites that demonstrate what we think but what impact will it have (in short nothing)
    BTW there is no company out there that is totally clean including MS .

    Skickat frn min HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e via Tapatalk 2
    12-27-2012 02:01 PM
  16. brmiller1976's Avatar
    In other words, you're really, really mad that we haven't drunk the Google Kool Aid.

    Before you go, you might want to make sure your WiFi is properly locked down, especially if you live in a major metro area. That awesome, totally non-evil Google has been hacking into people's home networks and downloading the contents:

    Google Engineer Knew About Street View WiFi Data Scoop: FCC Report

    I guess that deliberately hacking into private networks, scraping e-mail and password data, archiving it, and then reselling it isn't "evil."

    Yeah, this is a company to trust with all of your most personal information. I mean, just look at their motto, d00d!
    12-27-2012 03:55 PM
  17. imem's Avatar
    In other words, you're really, really mad that we haven't drunk the Google Kool Aid.

    Before you go, you might want to make sure your WiFi is properly locked down, especially if you live in a major metro area. That awesome, totally non-evil Google has been hacking into people's home networks and downloading the contents:

    Google Engineer Knew About Street View WiFi Data Scoop: FCC Report

    I guess that deliberately hacking into private networks, scraping e-mail and password data, archiving it, and then reselling it isn't "evil."

    Yeah, this is a company to trust with all of your most personal information. I mean, just look at their motto, d00d!
    And what is your point (maybe it's that my native language is not English ) you lost me there.

    Skickat frn min HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e via Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by imem; 12-27-2012 at 05:55 PM.
    12-27-2012 04:51 PM
  18. Big Supes's Avatar
    In other words, you're really, really mad that we haven't drunk the Google Kool Aid.

    Before you go, you might want to make sure your WiFi is properly locked down, especially if you live in a major metro area. That awesome, totally non-evil Google has been hacking into people's home networks and downloading the contents:

    Google Engineer Knew About Street View WiFi Data Scoop: FCC Report

    I guess that deliberately hacking into private networks, scraping e-mail and password data, archiving it, and then reselling it isn't "evil."

    Yeah, this is a company to trust with all of your most personal information. I mean, just look at their motto, d00d!
    WOW. Just. Wow.
    12-27-2012 05:55 PM
  19. arrowrand's Avatar
    I guess that deliberately hacking into private networks, scraping e-mail and password data, archiving it, and then reselling it isn't "evil."
    I don't care what you drink, it's tough to debate someone that intentionally makes up the facts to suit their own needs.

    Take this paragraph from your posts: two factual inaccuracies that I'm sure you'll be happy to use again and again.

    1. Google didn't hack into anyone's network. If your WiFi network is open, you're blasting your data as far as your signal will carry. No hacking required.

    2. Provide one credible bit of evidence that Google resold the data. Don't come back with "they used it to target ads", because that's not selling the data.
    12-27-2012 06:10 PM
  20. brmiller1976's Avatar
    And what is your point (maybe it's that my native language is not English ) you lost me there.
    Read the story. Google's StreetView trucks were hacking into private WiFi networks and scraping/downloading all the data they could from them, including usernames, passwords, and files that weren't properly protected. They were then associating those WiFi profiles with individual addresses, so they could identify the usernames and passwords and associate them with individual people.

    Someone should have gone to prison for this, and Google should have been fined BIG TIME. They weren't.

    But such activity is unquestionably "evil," regardless of a cute tagline.

    Oh, there I go again, unfairly bashing Google. We should all be happy they're doing us the public service of hacking into our home networks and archiving data for us. It's pre-emptive backup!
    12-27-2012 06:13 PM
  21. brmiller1976's Avatar
    1. Google didn't hack into anyone's network. If your WiFi network is open, you're blasting your data as far as your signal will carry. No hacking required.
    In the United States, if my neighbor has an open WiFi network, and I don't get his permission to access it, I have committed a federal and state crime by logging on -- even to access the Internet.

    Your argument is akin to stating that Google should have the right to go into my apartment and rifle through my belongings, because I left my door unlocked. Sure, leaving the door unlocked is stupid, but Google's still a criminal trespasser.

    Provide one credible bit of evidence that Google resold the data. Don't come back with "they used it to target ads", because that's not selling the data.
    Sure it is. Targeted ads using illicit data is renting the data to advertisers. Further, read the FCC's report.

    And seriously, if Google was executing puppies, you'd be saying "it's not execution, it's puppy-reduction." If you're okay with Google's lack of ethics and need to know EVERYTHING about you, that's great. Many of us want to see their criminal activity halted and their privacy invasion curtailed.
    12-27-2012 06:16 PM
  22. arrowrand's Avatar
    In the United States, if my neighbor has an open WiFi network, and I don't get his permission to access it, I have committed a federal and state crime by logging on -- even to access the Internet.

    Your argument is akin to stating that Google should have the right to go into my apartment and rifle through my belongings, because I left my door unlocked. Sure, leaving the door unlocked is stupid, but Google's still a criminal trespasser.
    My argument is simply this: Google didn't "hack into" anyone's network. If you log on to your neighbors network you didn't "hack in", you stole his bandwidth.

    Sure it is. Targeted ads using illicit data is renting the data to advertisers. Further, read the FCC's report.
    First you said they sold the data, now you say they rented it. Microsoft uses the same type of interest based (targeted) ads. Where's the outrage?

    seriously, if Google was executing puppies, you'd be saying "it's not execution, it's puppy-reduction." If you're okay with Google's lack of ethics and need to know EVERYTHING about you, that's great. Many of us want to see their criminal activity halted and their privacy invasion curtailed.
    You've come under the impression that I'm excusing Google's actions. I'm not. I'm calling bull**** on some of your statements.

    Now, this time I'm being serious. I'm done with this. Carry on with your rage, it's funny to think that you're this worked up about all of this stuff.
    12-27-2012 06:38 PM
  23. fusioncept's Avatar
    I just want Microsoft to let WP8 support CalDAV and CardDAV and I'll be satisfied.
    arrowrand likes this.
    12-27-2012 09:16 PM
  24. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Actually, yes, if you access a private network system without the network owner's permission, you hacked in.

    Just like if you entered a neighbor's house through an open window, you broke in, even though you didn't "break the lock."

    Sorry.

    The ethical implications of illicitly collecting private data via improperly-secured WiFi is obvious, and it disappoints me that people are attempting to defend such patently unethical activity.
    Jastow likes this.
    12-27-2012 11:39 PM
  25. arrowrand's Avatar
    Screw it, I guess I just have to stay in this conversation.
    Actually, yes, if you access a private network system without the network owner's permission, you hacked in.
    Well, actually, no. The FCC determined that these were unsecured networks broadcasting openly to the neighborhood on public frequencies. The FCC determined that it didn't violate wire tapping. It was in the report.

    Again, not a hack.
    Just like if you entered a neighbor's house through an open window, you broke in, even though you didn't "break the lock."
    If you did this in my neighborhood it isn't breaking and entering, its unlawful entry. A felony is a felony, but breaking and entry is a more severe one.

    it disappoints me that people are attempting to defend such patently unethical activity.
    Who defended them? I'm picking on the words that you used. That's not a defense of Google.
    12-28-2012 02:21 AM
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