Microsoft should attack Google for its proprietary ways

brmiller1976

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1. Google didn't hack into anyone's network. If your WiFi network is open, you're blasting your data as far as your signal will carry. No hacking required.

In the United States, if my neighbor has an open WiFi network, and I don't get his permission to access it, I have committed a federal and state crime by logging on -- even to access the Internet.

Your argument is akin to stating that Google should have the right to go into my apartment and rifle through my belongings, because I left my door unlocked. Sure, leaving the door unlocked is stupid, but Google's still a criminal trespasser.

Provide one credible bit of evidence that Google resold the data. Don't come back with "they used it to target ads", because that's not selling the data.

Sure it is. Targeted ads using illicit data is renting the data to advertisers. Further, read the FCC's report.

And seriously, if Google was executing puppies, you'd be saying "it's not execution, it's puppy-reduction." If you're okay with Google's lack of ethics and need to know EVERYTHING about you, that's great. Many of us want to see their criminal activity halted and their privacy invasion curtailed.
 

arrowrand

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In the United States, if my neighbor has an open WiFi network, and I don't get his permission to access it, I have committed a federal and state crime by logging on -- even to access the Internet.

Your argument is akin to stating that Google should have the right to go into my apartment and rifle through my belongings, because I left my door unlocked. Sure, leaving the door unlocked is stupid, but Google's still a criminal trespasser.
My argument is simply this: Google didn't "hack into" anyone's network. If you log on to your neighbors network you didn't "hack in", you stole his bandwidth.

Sure it is. Targeted ads using illicit data is renting the data to advertisers. Further, read the FCC's report.
First you said they sold the data, now you say they rented it. Microsoft uses the same type of interest based (targeted) ads. Where's the outrage?

seriously, if Google was executing puppies, you'd be saying "it's not execution, it's puppy-reduction." If you're okay with Google's lack of ethics and need to know EVERYTHING about you, that's great. Many of us want to see their criminal activity halted and their privacy invasion curtailed.
You've come under the impression that I'm excusing Google's actions. I'm not. I'm calling bull**** on some of your statements.

Now, this time I'm being serious. I'm done with this. Carry on with your rage, it's funny to think that you're this worked up about all of this stuff.
 

brmiller1976

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Actually, yes, if you access a private network system without the network owner's permission, you hacked in.

Just like if you entered a neighbor's house through an open window, you broke in, even though you didn't "break the lock."

Sorry.

The ethical implications of illicitly collecting private data via improperly-secured WiFi is obvious, and it disappoints me that people are attempting to defend such patently unethical activity.
 

arrowrand

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Screw it, I guess I just have to stay in this conversation.
Actually, yes, if you access a private network system without the network owner's permission, you hacked in.
Well, actually, no. The FCC determined that these were unsecured networks broadcasting openly to the neighborhood on public frequencies. The FCC determined that it didn't violate wire tapping. It was in the report.

Again, not a hack.
Just like if you entered a neighbor's house through an open window, you broke in, even though you didn't "break the lock."
If you did this in my neighborhood it isn't breaking and entering, its unlawful entry. A felony is a felony, but breaking and entry is a more severe one.

it disappoints me that people are attempting to defend such patently unethical activity.
Who defended them? I'm picking on the words that you used. That's not a defense of Google.
 

brmiller1976

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Choose to do business with them if you wish... I'm going to go with someone who values my privacy, and doesn't claim that because I have a WiFi router connected to my PC, they should be able to tap in and fish around, and try to argue that it's "not *technically* hacking" because WiFi broadcasts on spectrum that is allocated for public use.

If what Google did was ethical, they'd not have lied about it (twice) before getting caught red-handed. If what Google did was legal, they'd not have had to pay a fine to the FCC. And they're in hot water in other countries that have stronger privacy laws, as well.
 

StevesBalls

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In the United States, if my neighbor has an open WiFi network, and I don't get his permission to access it, I have committed a federal and state crime by logging on -- even to access the Internet.

I am no expert on US law, but this sounds hardly believable. Do you have anything to support that statement?
 

imem

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Sv: Microsoft should attack Google for its proprietary ways

Some states do consider it a crime to access an open WiFi network without authorization. In fact, several people have already been convicted.

Illinois WiFi freeloader fined US$250 | Ars Technica
Florida man charged with felony for wardriving | Ars Technica
Michigan man fined for using free Wi-Fi

Here's a listing of computer hacking laws for each state.

Computer Hacking and Unauthorized Access Laws

Are you saying that if you drive buy and your phone connect to a open Wi-Fi you are a felony?
That is stupid that means that you all time have to check what connection is active .
If you configured open network it's open if you us into steal stuff inside that network I agree!
I'm not saying you are wrong buth it's stupid. Here in Sweden there is free network to connect to all over (shops and cafes and so)
So I connect to what's open where I am.
If I find a open Wi-Fi that's a privet person network I send them a mail telling them to reconfigure there network. For there are always some that can us it to do criminal things.

Skickat fr?n min HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e via Tapatalk 2
 

HeyCori

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Re: Sv: Microsoft should attack Google for its proprietary ways

Are you saying that if you drive buy and your phone connect to a open Wi-Fi you are a felony?

I've yet to come across a cellphone/laptop that will automatically connect to an open network. The user has to at least hit the connect button.

Many shops and cafes in the US won't let you connect to their network until you accept their Terms of Service.
 

arrowrand

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I am no expert on US law, but this sounds hardly believable. Do you have anything to support that statement?
Actually, this is one of his more accurate statements. It's much of the rest that he's "less accurate" about.

Hopping on someone's open WiFi where I live is theft of service in the same way that hooking up your own cable TV connection would be.

Fines for sure, jail time possible if you're a repeat hump.
 

arrowrand

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"He" is completely accurate. Hijack my WiFi and I'll prosecute under state law.
"He" might find what the local library here did when they had freeloaders from the next door condo complex riding their outdoor WiFi signal.

The Commonwealth's Attorney said "what did you think was going to happen with a wide open network?"

"He" can only prosecute if "he" is the prosecutor. "He" might find that the actual prosecutor has better things to do with their time.
 

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