Will WP8 devices get WP9 (or Blue)

[a5cent]

"I have no idea what will happen to my 8X, maybe Microsoft decides it would be funny again to make new apps not working on my phone in 2 years..."
<snipped>
They did this twice withing 3 years, from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone and from Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8.

Can you explain to me exactly what your problem was when going from WP7 to WP8? I own a WP7 device and I feel that it is still supported really well. It even runs a few apps that aren't yet available on my Lumia 920. The transition from WM6.5 to WP7... absolutely... everything got dumped. The transition from WP7 to WP8... no... I think people are imagining many problems where few exist... urban fairy tales... echos from a bygone nerd-rage.

IMHO people are just having problems seeing past the version number. They assume they must have the same OS version or they will instantly be locked out of something, but that just isn't true.

 

[Chregu]

Can you explain to me exactly what your problem was when going from WP7 to WP8? I own a WP7 device and I feel that it is still supported really well. It even runs a few apps that aren't yet available on my Lumia 920. The transition from WM6.5 to WP7... absolutely... everything got dumped. The transition from WP7 to WP8... no... I think people are imagining many problems where few exist... urban fairy tales... echos from a bygone nerd-rage.

I don't have a problem, but maybe the person who has my old phone that has not the same apps as I do has one? Or maybe I have a problem because there are games I paid good money for, that are not usable on my new device anymore? Why should I stick to the Microsoft ecosystem, if there's no guarantee I can even use the apps I paid for a few months ago?
I understand that Microsoft wants us to buy a new phone at least every two years, but the reality is sometimes different. Also, I was writing about the possible problem I'll have in two years, when I can't use new apps on my phone anymore, in comparison to Apple which supports the old phones for years.

Just look at the development of the official WPCentral app. I don't think this change and the development for two systems is easy for developers. And all the old apps developed for WP7 don't support the full resolution on my phone. I don't need such a large screen, when there's one centimeter or so just being black ;-)

 

[a5cent]

Or maybe I have a problem because there are games I paid good money for, that are not usable on my new device anymore? Why should I stick to the Microsoft ecosystem, if there's no guarantee I can even use the apps I paid for a few months ago?
<snipped>
And all the old apps developed for WP7 don't support the full resolution on my phone. I don't need such a large screen, when there's one centimeter or so just being black ;-)

Completely valid complaints. However, those issues have nothing to do with WP7 devices not getting updated to WP8. I think we're discussing different topics.

I'm talking about the fear people had, that Microsoft and all developers would instantly forget WP7 existed upon WP8's release. That didn't happen, mainly due to economics. Developers don't develop for a market that barely exists. That is why they continue to target WP7. My point is that those fears would be equally unjustified should WP8 devices not get updated to WP9. WP8 would continue to get apps and updates just the same.

Just look at the development of the official WPCentral app. I don't think this change and the development for two systems is easy for developers. And all the old apps developed for WP7 don't support the full resolution on my phone. I don't need such a large screen, when there's one centimeter or so just being black ;-)

No, those old apps don't support the full resolution of your WP8 device. Then again, they wouldn't do so even if WP7 devices did get updated to WP8. Different topic.

I'm not familiar with Jay's problems with the WPC app. What problems has he got? Most WP developers I know continue to develop for WP7 and those exact same apps run on WP7 and WP8. It's not willy-nilly simple and completely without problems, but software development never is, no matter what platform you are on.

 

[hethler]

Argh, hate to brings this but until now, I'm still awaiting for the WP 7.8 update!

 

[Chregu]

I'm not familiar with Jay's problems with the WPC app. What problems has he got? Most WP developers I know continue to develop for WP7 and those exact same apps run on WP7 and WP8. It's not willy-nilly simple and completely without problems, but software development never is, no matter what platform you are on.

Me neither, I was referring to the publishing process: He wanted to make sure, that the app runs well on WP7, before porting the app to WP8 for the new features and resolutions, what took months. Now he has to develop the two apps in parallel. (At least that's how I understood it.) Also, if apps support the new resolutions, aren't they automatically not compatible to WP7 anymore? I'm not sure, but if this is true, every app that can really support my device, won't work for WP7 anymore, or there have again to be two apps developed in parallel.

For everything else, yes, you're right. But for how long will this last? The Lumia 900 was still really new when WP8 hit. So people who have bought a high end device at the end of the year have now maybe passed three months of their 2 year update cycle. Do you think the support will still be the same in a year when they are left with 9 months?

 

[a5cent]

Me neither, I was referring to the publishing process: He wanted to make sure, that the app runs well on WP7, before porting the app to WP8 for the new features and resolutions, what took months. Now he has to develop the two apps in parallel. (At least that's how I understood it.)

If that is really how Jay does it, I'm sure he has his reasons. The people I know don't do it that way. Microsoft has a platform compatibility page devoted specifically to this issue, on which is stated:

"In general, the Windows Phone app platform enables apps that target Windows Phone OS 7.1 to run without modification or recompilation on Windows Phone 8."

That means one app. No parallel development.

Also, if apps support the new resolutions, aren't they automatically not compatible to WP7 anymore? I'm not sure, but if this is true, every app that can really support my device, won't work for WP7 anymore, or there have again to be two apps developed in parallel.

No. WP8 is smarter than that. :wink: It has to be, because many WP8 devices still use 800x480 resolutions, remember? Microsoft describes how this works here. It basically comes down to WP UI rendering being pixel agnostic. Actually, every single WP7 app should already have been capable of taking full advantage of your 8x's resolution without any black bars. Many app developers just didn't get it right the first time. Some still don't get it.

For everything else, yes, you're right. But for how long will this last? The Lumia 900 was still really new when WP8 hit. So people who have bought a high end device at the end of the year have now maybe passed three months of their 2 year update cycle. Do you think the support will still be the same in a year when they are left with 9 months?

Anyone who bought a Lumia 900 three months ago, when the 920 was already available, probably doesn't care that much about updates. However, anyone that cares about their phones as much as we do, would have known to wait a week and then get a newer WP8 device instead. Beyond that though, you are right of course. Support for older devices will slowly dwindle over time. Over what time period is hard to say. Consider however, that brand new WP7 devices are still being sold today. The newest model, the 510, was released just last December. WP7 isn't going away for quite some time. When WP9 is released, WP8 will stick around in exactly the same way... to service the low end...

 

[Chregu]

No. WP8 is smarter than that. :wink: It has to be, because many WP8 devices still use 800x480 resolutions, remember? Microsoft describes how this works here. It basically comes down to WP UI rendering being pixel agnostic. Actually, every single WP7 app should already have been capable of taking full advantage of your 8x's resolution without any black bars. Many app developers just didn't get it right the first time. Some still don't get it.

Are you sure about this? I don't think I have a single WP7 app on my phone without the black bar. As an example again: Jay's app had the bar until it was updated to WP8. Are there any examples of apps written for WP7 without the bars?

Edit: As a note, there are also two apps of WeekView. One for WP7 and one for WP8 supporting the new features.

 

[WanderingTraveler]

I have a solution for Intel and ARM Architecture split.
ARM -> .xap (works on both x86 and ARM)
Intel -> .xapx (works on x86 only; easier ports from desktop)

.xapx will target power users, .xap will target broad audience.

 

[a5cent]

Are you sure about this? I don't think I have a single WP7 app on my phone without the black bar. As an example again: Jay's app had the bar until it was updated to WP8. Are there any examples of apps written for WP7 without the bars?

Okay, I misunderstood you. I see what you mean. Yes, you are right. If you port an app to WP8 to get rid of the black bars (it is a shame that this is the only way to do that), then that app is no longer compatible with WP7. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to go full out "parallel development". Some developers use two sets of UI layout files, while keeping everything else largely unchanged. When the app runs, it then loads one or the other set of files depending on whether it is running on WP7 or WP8. That requires a few tricks here and there (Nokia has developer documentation on that subject), but it is possible to target both WP7 and WP8 with a single app. However, that is a hassle. Most don't do it. They will just target WP7 and be done with it. Devices with 720p displays will get black bars. That's life.

So, we've kind of drifted off topic here. We are discussing differences in hardware (display resolution), and these problems would have occurred even if WP7 devices had been updated to WP8. That is the original point I was trying to make.

Good night! :wink:

 

[jhoff80]

arm to arm is not an architecture change. Also wince is still developing and widely adopted. From a user perspective it is a fiasco - almost nothing new, a lot of new bugs and missing functionalities

Not a strict architecture change, no, but you can't change from the entire underlying core of an operating system with just a few minutes of copying and pasting. WinCE, still developing? Maybe (but doubtful, the last release was in 2011). It's still positively ancient, and has no business in a modern smartphone though.

Move to x86 processors. Bam. Microsoft doesn't have an OS solution to unite ARM and x86 for non-smartphones as of the moment. We have Windows 8 and we have Windows RT, which are two different OSes with completely stripped down functionality on the part of Windows RT. This suggests that any move to x86 will obsolete current Windows Phones.

They're actually not two different OSes, they're the same exact one. One is just more locked down than the other. So that shouldn't be a problem either.

 

[fardream]

Not a strict architecture change, no, but you can't change from the entire underlying core of an operating system with just a few minutes of copying and pasting. WinCE, still developing? Maybe (but doubtful, the last release was in 2011). It's still positively ancient, and has no business in a modern smartphone though.

I felt you might have confused kernel with CPU architecture - whatever, CE is living well, and it's never intended to be a full blown OS like windows phone.

 

[jhoff80]

I felt you might have confused kernel with CPU architecture - whatever, CE is living well, and it's never intended to be a full blown OS like windows phone.

No, I was trying (and failed, apparently :wink to simplify explaining it for the audience here.

 

[Phone Guy 4567]

Perception is just as important as reality, perception can become reality. MS is failing miserably in perception, my Android phone has had two updates ICS & JB. People don't care why they don't get an update, just that they don't get it.

 

[Microsoftjunkie]

Every windows phone 8 device will get supported at least 18months...which is a year and a half.
This is what Microsoft said. So whatever updates or fixes they do within that time frame every phone will get.

 

[anon(5370748)]

Perception is just as important as reality, perception can become reality. MS is failing miserably in perception, my Android phone has had two updates ICS & JB. People don't care why they don't get an update, just that they don't get it.

That's a very new concept to Android. Until recently, Google was the only company that supported their hardware for more than a month or two after release. If I had received more than one update to my Droid 2 Global (seven months after they released it with broken email due to unremovable Moto crapware), I probably wouldn't have been as tempted to switch to WP. After Google got their ducks in order and the OS stabilized with ICS, updates became much less of an issue because - as mentioned before - there really isn't much of a material difference between the new versions now - it's really just refinement.

Unfortunately MS isn't great at handling PR the way Apple (*$&% you, you're using it wrong) or Google (&*$% you, we're smarter than you and know where you live) does. They're also later to the game than iOS and Android were, so now that people are coming from and used to more mature OS, they have less patience for early adopter issues.

 

[ryker002]

Considering how WP8 just came out its gonna be awhile for an update to 9. And I mean a couple years. If they do come with one im certain WP or at least high end WP8 devices will get the update.

Just remember. Updates are no longer just sent out through the network provider, but through the market place.

Rumor is that we could be getting blue through the market. I don't know about that.
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

 

[Chregu]

Just remember. Updates are no longer just sent out through the network provider, but through the market place.

...what?

 

[ryker002]

...what?

If you haven't already noticed getting all your minor fixes through the marketplace.... WPCentral always makes a blog post about whenever they send one out.

 

[Chregu]

If you haven't already noticed getting all your minor fixes through the marketplace.... WPCentral always makes a blog post about whenever they send one out.

Some company specific settings that are implemented as apps, yes. But I have never gotten a system update, or I am absolutely oblivious here.

This was already in WP7.

 

[pjs37]

Microsoft promised 18 months (at least) for new WP8 devices. Take that for what you will (Let us not forget we were also supposed to be able to bypass carriers for updates and other things that never came true) but that was the official line from MS on the topic. Whether or not that means we will get Blue I think it means we do but again we won't know for sure until it happens.

Considering how WP8 just came out its gonna be awhile for an update to 9. And I mean a couple years. If they do come with one im certain WP or at least high end WP8 devices will get the update.

Just remember. Updates are no longer just sent out through the network provider, but through the market place.

Rumor is that we could be getting blue through the market. I don't know about that.
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

Some programs will be updated through the marketplace it seems to be mainly the manufacturer specific apps but System Updates you need to go to the Settings -> System Update option. And it still relies on your carrier allowing you to get it.