05-21-2013 09:59 PM
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  1. cameradork's Avatar
    Google has an estimated 400 projects on the go at their R&D including hardware. They also have holdings in robotics, biotechnology, and even pharmaceuticals. Don't just go by what is publicly visible.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    They still suck. Shutting down Reader... what's the matter with them?
    03-24-2013 04:14 PM
  2. KingCrimson's Avatar
    Google has an estimated 400 projects on the go at their R&D including hardware. They also have holdings in robotics, biotechnology, and even pharmaceuticals. Don't just go by what is publicly visible.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Microsoft Robotics Developer Studio
    Microsoft Research - Turning ideas into reality
    03-24-2013 04:22 PM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    Google has an estimated 400 projects on the go at their R&D including hardware. They also have holdings in robotics, biotechnology, and even pharmaceuticals. Don't just go by what is publicly visible.
    I'm not. I'm aware of Google's many other investments, which is why I referred specifically to diversification within the software space! In that space, Google is a one trick pony, albeit an extremely profitable pony. Google may surprise us, but I don't think many are expecting synergies to emerge between Android/Chrome and Google's many other ventures in energy, biotech, etc. Microsoft is far more diversified within the software space, which is where Microsoft is expected to more easily find unique opportunities for innovation. I hope I've now made myself clear.
    03-24-2013 04:26 PM
  4. omniusovermind's Avatar
    On that specific point yes. But the undertone of a few posts in this thread is that Google has a flaw in its business model. But really, so what? Who doesn't? They're still obscenely wealthy and doing a whole lot of things right so what's the point of a "wellll they're doing such and such wrong. I know it means pretty much nothing but.. just sayin"

    I guess I just don't see the point unless you're just theorycrafting purely for the heck of it?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-25-2013 04:50 AM
  5. Fumetsu's Avatar
    And that's the problem I have with Google defenders, whether you were intending to be one or not. There's just a lack of fundamental understanding of the situation, whether through lack of research or willful ignorance. Microsoft is saying they've worked with the YouTube team, have a client ready, and Google shut it down. Would the situation be the same if YouTube had stayed independent? And Scroogled is a marketing campaign, it doesn't hurt users. Google is hurting users, from acquiring YouTube and shutting out Microsoft, to essentially monopolising the RSS market then killing their product.

    Now personally, I wouldn't give a crap if Apple didn't allow iTunes to work with Windows 8. That's Apple for you, they may be smug but they aren't blatantly blindsiding you. If Google wishes to play it's bullcrap "openness" and "freedom" arguments, it should stop locking out development of clients for its yes, proprietary services. Let's not even get started on actually opening up those proprietary services.
    Maybe you need to do research.

    Microsoft wants the ability to use Google's proprietary API for Youtube that it uses in its iOS and Android apps so that it can release a Microsoft developed YouTube app that Google played no part in developing.

    Google is not required to do so. In fact, none of the other OEMs or Apple are allowed to do so, as the native YouTube clients are developed by Google and licensed by the OEMs for inclusion in their stock ROMs. It also does not have to allow Microsoft to use its private/proprietary YouTube API to release a YouTube branded native app for Windows Phone that Google did not develop. Like everyone else, it can use the 3rd party API or the mobile web version, which while not as full featured works just fine. While Android is open source, Google Apps are not and the OEMs must license them from Google in order to include them. MS wants to play by a different set of rules and it's not surprising that they dont want to work with MS given the Scroogled campaign and other evidence that MS is actively sponsoring supposedly independent 3rd parties to lobby against Google both here and in Europe.

    Google owns YouTube, it is not a standard that falls under FRAND and Google isn't required to develop or allow native clients for a competitor's platform that don't follow it's design language or guidelines.



    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-25-2013 05:02 AM
  6. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    I like how people curse and abuse Google, basically show their deep rooted hatred towards everything Google yet they complain about Google not providing Microsoft the necessary information for a YouTube app. This hatred will still remain even if Google does provide Microsoft the required details.
    03-25-2013 05:10 AM
  7. Darkgift's Avatar
    Maybe you need to do research.

    Microsoft wants the ability to use Google's proprietary API for Youtube that it uses in its iOS and Android apps so that it can release a Microsoft developed YouTube app that Google played no part in developing.

    Google is not required to do so. In fact, none of the other OEMs or Apple are allowed to do so, as the native YouTube clients are developed by Google and licensed by the OEMs for inclusion in their stock ROMs. It also does not have to allow Microsoft to use its private/proprietary YouTube API to release a YouTube branded native app for Windows Phone that Google did not develop. Like everyone else, it can use the 3rd party API or the mobile web version, which while not as full featured works just fine. While Android is open source, Google Apps are not and the OEMs must license them from Google in order to include them. MS wants to play by a different set of rules and it's not surprising that they dont want to work with MS given the Scroogled campaign and other evidence that MS is actively sponsoring supposedly independent 3rd parties to lobby against Google both here and in Europe.

    Google owns YouTube, it is not a standard that falls under FRAND and Google isn't required to develop or allow native clients for a competitor's platform that don't follow it's design language or guidelines.



    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Actually, Apple did have its own YouTube app until 2012, when Google finally made a full functioning app for IOS with the release of IOS 6...5 yrs after launch. So, there is a precedent for OEM developed YouTube apps. Google just doesn't want Microsoft to have one. Its pretty blatant and obvious.
    03-25-2013 05:11 AM
  8. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    Actually, Apple did have its own YouTube app until 2012, when Google finally made a full functioning app for IOS with the release of IOS 6...5 yrs after launch. So, there is a precedent for OEM developed YouTube apps. Google just doesn't want Microsoft to have one. Its pretty blatant and obvious.
    I think that was a license Apple got from Google that was suppose to be for 5 years only. When it was elapsing Apple didn't want to renew it and thus simply removed the app. Google then made their own.
    03-25-2013 05:20 AM
  9. AaHaa's Avatar
    I think that was a license Apple got from Google that was suppose to be for 5 years only. When it was elapsing Apple didn't want to renew it and thus simply removed the app. Google then made their own.
    So... why did they make one for Apple and won't make one for Microsoft? Apple and Google aren't exactly friends either, with Steve Jobs and his thermonuclear war on Google... Is it all because the Windows market is smaller? Because that would be pretty mean for a company that profiles itself as "your friend" who doesn't do evil.
    03-25-2013 05:49 AM
  10. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    So... why did they make one for Apple and won't make one for Microsoft? Apple and Google aren't exactly friends either, with Steve Jobs and his thermonuclear war on Google... Is it all because the Windows market is smaller? Because that would be pretty mean for a company that profiles itself as "your friend" who doesn't do evil.
    Do you remember when the iPhone was launched? Apple and Google were best buds at that time. Eric Schimdt was in Apple's board of directors. The license was given to Apple then, including one for Google Maps. The thermonuclear war started years after that.
    03-25-2013 06:08 AM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    So... why did they make one for Apple and won't make one for Microsoft?
    There are undoubtedly politics involved, but another reason is likely market share. It's the same reason WP doesn't see a lot of other big name apps.
    03-25-2013 07:20 AM
  12. Fumetsu's Avatar
    Actually, Apple did have its own YouTube app until 2012, when Google finally made a full functioning app for IOS with the release of IOS 6...5 yrs after launch. So, there is a precedent for OEM developed YouTube apps. Google just doesn't want Microsoft to have one. Its pretty blatant and obvious.
    As another poster noted, Apple licensed both Maps and YouTube from Google in 2007, both of which were originally jointly developed, with the original iPhone and they saw no significant UI or feature changes until the license expired when Apple chose not to renew it. it was only then that they developed their own native apps that follows their own design specifications.

    Microsoft wants to use that API to develop a Metro style YouTube app, which Google isn't willing to do, and they don't want to develop for Windows Phone or Windows 8 (aside from Search on WP and Chrome on Win 8) as they do not have the market share to justify development costs when the mobile site covers the need.

    If WP does gain significant market share where Google could actually justify the development costs for native apps, they will do so - they have demonstrated that they are willing to make its services available on as many platforms as possible where it makes sense for them to do so. But don't expect them to go out of there way to do so to help advance adoption of Microsoft's platform when Microsoft is actively working against them. It isn't "evil" for them to choose not to waste money to help Microsoft with little or no benefit when YouTube (and most other Google services) are available via the web or accessible with third party APIs for developers who are willing to work within those constraints.
    03-25-2013 08:43 AM
  13. ChMar's Avatar
    I doubt google will ever make native apps for wp8 platform no matter how successful the platforms will be. It's a war of services here and youtube is a google service. On a wp handset you are encouraged to use Microsoft services(office, office 365, skydrive, outlook) so google will just be an after thought for most wp users who will find ways to migrate to ms services. On iphone situation is different as apple has a syncing platform(icloud) but has no email platform not maps services(working ones) no video streaming and no cloud office solutions. So there google services can run practically unopposed.

    If you were google would you give your competitor the ability to use ms services primarily and some of your services or you would try to destroy their mobile platform and push yours ahead? And do no evil motto is just dust in the eyes to look good in the eyes of people who are not willing or care enough to open their eyes. Google has to protect it's services and making them available on iphone where is no competition and on their own sponsored android platform is how they protect their interests. Want to be able to use google services at their maximum potential go for android. Want an easier access from a large user base with no competing services like iphone ecosystem go there. Want to use in combination with their rival os and services well no luck
    a5cent likes this.
    03-25-2013 09:02 AM
  14. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    I doubt google will ever make native apps for wp8 platform no matter how successful the platforms will be. It's a war of services here and youtube is a google service. On a wp handset you are encouraged to use Microsoft services(office, office 365, skydrive, outlook) so google will just be an after thought for most wp users who will find ways to migrate to ms services. On iphone situation is different as apple has a syncing platform(icloud) but has no email platform not maps services(working ones) no video streaming and no cloud office solutions. So there google services can run practically unopposed.

    If you were google would you give your competitor the ability to use ms services primarily and some of your services or you would try to destroy their mobile platform and push yours ahead? And do no evil motto is just dust in the eyes to look good in the eyes of people who are not willing or care enough to open their eyes. Google has to protect it's services and making them available on iphone where is no competition and on their own sponsored android platform is how they protect their interests. Want to be able to use google services at their maximum potential go for android. Want an easier access from a large user base with no competing services like iphone ecosystem go there. Want to use in combination with their rival os and services well no luck
    There are a few services that Google offers that Microsoft doesn't, like You Tube and Google+, so it's not all about competition. Trust me, Google wants as many people as possible to use YouTube and Google+. They don't care what platform it's on.
    03-25-2013 01:57 PM
  15. WinFan1's Avatar
    There are a few services that Google offers that Microsoft doesn't, like You Tube and Google+, so it's not all about competition. Trust me, Google wants as many people as possible to use YouTube and Google+. They don't care what platform it's on.
    im sorry but i have to disagree with you on this specific point, largely due to the fact that if it were about getting as many people on their services as possible then marketshare wouldn't matter. Why? Because regardless of marketshare these people would be active users on their mobile app, even if there were only 10 million people on windows phone, that would still be 10 million people using that service. So personally i think thats a lame and tired *** excuse in regards to youtube on windows phone.
    03-25-2013 02:37 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    So personally i think that's a lame and tired *** excuse in regards to youtube on windows phone.
    It's far worse than that. Google would only have had to let MS publish their own YouTube app, which they had allegedly completed and was ready to ship. Google didn't have to lift a finger, or pay a dime, yet they refused to grant MS the legal rights to access their YouTube APIs.

    IMHO it is impossible to reconcile ammarmalik2011's claims with Google's actions.
    03-25-2013 02:49 PM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    im sorry but i have to disagree with you on this specific point, largely due to the fact that if it were about getting as many people on their services as possible then marketshare wouldn't matter. Why? Because regardless of marketshare these people would be active users on their mobile app, even if there were only 10 million people on windows phone, that would still be 10 million people using that service. So personally i think thats a lame and tired *** excuse in regards to youtube on windows phone.
    I agree with ammarmalik2011 on this one. Of course marketshare matters! There may be some politics involved, but I would think that Google calculated the amount of users they would gain vs. development & maintenance costs. Evidently they decided it's not worth it. Google is all about getting people to use their services to get data. They don't care so much what platform it's on. I am sure if WP marketshare grew to rival Apple's that there would be 1st party Google apps for WP.
    03-25-2013 03:04 PM
  18. WinFan1's Avatar
    I agree with ammarmalik2011 on this one. Of course marketshare matters! There may be some politics involved, but I would think that Google calculated the amount of users they would gain vs. development & maintenance costs. Evidently they decided it's not worth it. Google is all about getting people to use their services to get data. They don't care so much what platform it's on. I am sure if WP marketshare grew to rival Apple's that there would be 1st party Google apps for WP.
    that doesn't make sense since Ms made the app....... I'm not buying this bs.
    a5cent and acl14 like this.
    03-25-2013 03:24 PM
  19. JMBasquiat's Avatar
    Do you remember when the iPhone was launched? Apple and Google were best buds at that time. Eric Schimdt was in Apple's board of directors. The license was given to Apple then, including one for Google Maps. The thermonuclear war started years after that.
    But you yourself said that Apple didn't want to renew it, so by that logic, it wasn't Google that said no, but Apple. In other words, Google would have been happy to strike a new deal with Apple, despite the "thermonuclear war" stuff. Apple sued Samsung and HTC, two of the biggest Android OEMs (which was a proxy war against Google and Android), yet Google appeared to be willing to renew its deal with Apple.

    Microsoft runs a campaign and finances studies and... Google doesn't want to strike a deal with Microsoft?

    Yeah, it's pretty clear Google are doing it on purpose to stifle WP, and not because of some campaign. And this is the main reason why I stopped using their services. Thanks but no thanks.
    03-25-2013 04:39 PM
  20. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    google just doesn't let microsoft use their API because they can and as tgp said, its not enough marketshare to make a difference. Which is why I was rolling over laughing when google gave apple some 1 billion dollars to make google search the default engine for iphone, because iOS is still a huge market segment and since siri came out, it would be a huge blow to google to have all those users use other search engines.

    Google is a force to be a little scared about at the moment in some ways. They dominate search, have a majority in mobile OSes to along with a vast amount of web apps in their ecosystem. There is one huge, gigantic glaring flaw with google and its that they only make money off advertising and pretty much nothing else. Android has been around for about what, 5 -6 years now and they still haven't made money on it? It only really helped samsung. Most of their other projects are the same way. Both apple and microsoft are diversified enough that if one of their major products failed, they would be hurting, but not going bankrupt. Why is that the reason then that everything Google does, they do to enrich their targeted advertising and search, their only main source of income?

    Google is reacting to Microsoft at the moment because they are their main threat, like wise as Google is Microsoft's main threat. Microsoft also has targeted advertising and more importantly bing which is a direct competition to Google and its growing, albeit slowly.
    03-25-2013 07:22 PM
  21. tgp's Avatar
    Yeah, it's pretty clear Google are doing it on purpose to stifle WP, and not because of some campaign. And this is the main reason why I stopped using their services. Thanks but no thanks.
    The loss is yours. Don't kid yourself; Google knows how many users they could gain, and it's not enough to be worth the investment. Users who have made the same decision you have are few enough that Google doesn't care. I'm not saying I feel it's right or wrong, but that's the way it is. Google doesn't owe WP users anything. If they thought there was a buck to be made they would do it. They are in business to turn a profit like every other business on the face of the planet.

    Picture a town with a population of 50 in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. Do they have the right to demand Walmart to build them a store?
    03-25-2013 07:41 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    Don't kid yourself; Google knows how many users they could gain, and it's not enough to be worth the investment.
    You need to read up. You aren't fully informed.

    Again, for the second time... Microsoft made a YouTube app on their own dime. Google could have endorsed that as their official YouTube app on WP, completely free of charge! In other words, at an investment cost of ZERO! However, Google declined to provide MS the rights to access their YouTube API. Google provides these rights to almost anyone else who asks, irrespective of their potential to grow market share, but not to MS. How does that factor into your theory?

    The only guy kidding himself is you.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-25-2013 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Spelling
    03-25-2013 09:21 PM
  23. AngryNil's Avatar
    Maybe you need to do research.
    Cute.

    YouTube already worked with Microsoft. Google shut it down because Google hates Microsoft.

    End of story. Period. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
    03-25-2013 10:39 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    You need to read up. You aren't fully informed.

    Again, for the second time... Microsoft made a YouTube app on their own dime. Google could have endorsed that as their official YouTube app on WP, completely free of charge! In other words, at an investment cost of ZERO! However, Google declined to provide MS the rights to access their YouTube API. Google provides these rights to almost anyone else who asks, irrespective of their potential to grow market share, but not to MS. How does that factor into your theory?

    The only guy kidding himself is you.
    You're probably right; you likely know more about this than I do. But don't you think that if Google thought it would advantageous for them to either produce a YouTube app for WP or provide MS with the API's that they would do it? Why doesn't Facebook make an app for WP?
    03-25-2013 10:41 PM
  25. Ordeith's Avatar
    You're probably right; you likely know more about this than I do. But don't you think that if Google thought it would advantageous for them to either produce a YouTube app for WP or provide MS with the API's that they would do it? Why doesn't Facebook make an app for WP?
    No. And that reason? Eric Schmidt.

    Schmidt has had an irrational hatred for MS for most of his career. He brought it with him from Sun and Novell. And Page and Brin had the dumb idea to hire this nutcase and put him in charge.

    Look at Google's history, the evil (privacy invasion at all costs, undermining and eroding markets, trying to control the internet, cozying up to government) started with Schmidt. I fear it has become so ingrained in Google's culture now that the evil will outlast him.
    robinleck likes this.
    03-25-2013 11:27 PM
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