05-21-2013 09:59 PM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    But don't you think that if Google thought it would advantageous for them to either produce a YouTube app for WP or provide MS with the API's that they would do it?
    Yes, I do, so obviously such moves aren't considered advantageous. I don't know how Google arrived at that conclusion. However, Google's own actions make it absolutely clear that their motives are in no way as innocent as previously suggested.
    03-26-2013 12:00 AM
  2. WinFan1's Avatar
    Yes, I do, so obviously such moves aren't considered advantageous. I don't know how Google arrived at that conclusion. However, Google's own actions make it absolutely clear that their motives are in no way as innocent as previously suggested.
    ^this im sorry i dont buy that googles the good guy in all this. is painfully obvious that they are not obligated to develope a youtube app (even less so since MS MADE ONE!!) but dont defend them in saying that this has anything to do with marketshare.windows controls the bulk of pc marketshare but i dont see google blocking access to their site for linux users. i could understand with gmail g+ etc... but youtube is a video streaming service so to me regardless of marketshare, everyone on every platform should recieve a google developed youtube app. why would they snuff windows phones millions of users? millions are millions and idgaf what anyone has to say about that. Considering that google has royally destroyed youtube anyway, i think my point drives itself home.
    03-26-2013 06:46 AM
  3. ChMar's Avatar
    ^this im sorry i dont buy that googles the good guy in all this. is painfully obvious that they are not obligated to develope a youtube app (even less so since MS MADE ONE!!) but dont defend them in saying that this has anything to do with marketshare.windows controls the bulk of pc marketshare but i dont see google blocking access to their site for linux users. i could understand with gmail g+ etc... but youtube is a video streaming service so to me regardless of marketshare, everyone on every platform should recieve a google developed youtube app. why would they snuff windows phones millions of users? millions are millions and idgaf what anyone has to say about that. Considering that google has royally destroyed youtube anyway, i think my point drives itself home.
    Can't force a corporation to make software for your platform because it is a video streaming service especially if it's free of charge. So it's not like everyone should receive time and money from google on every platform. But it seams to many lack of youtube app is a problem. And this means google has achieved it's objective. It just blocks windows phone 8 adoption because people want youtube official app and they can't get it.

    What surprises me that even with so many controversial moves by google people still love them and use their services. People don't refuse to use gmail even they know that google is reading their emails to serve them adds and to mine their data. They don't care. People are loving calendar sync even if it will become harder for other services that use google to use this(google mines those data too). People want google+ even though it's not that good and the api available for it does not allow posting so you can't come with apps that are useful for that platform but hey who cares it's not like you need API we are not all developers. Google shopping is pay for rank only but hey who cares about finding relevant data on shopping online I mean if that guy can afford money for google they provide great services right? Google does not serve you add based on your search query only no it serves you add based on your google experience history. Hey but who cares about that? It's not like a coworker or a friend can see what kind of ads are served to you and determine what you are searching on google so what if your girlfriend realize you have some issues by the ads you are served she should know the truth right? Who cares negative seo is destroying search results or that you have to pollute the web with useless articles in blogs to make white seo? I mean come on does anyone care? Who cares that by simply putting the review stars for a web page(google standard) you get on top of better search results? They do look cool right? And they will show 4, 5 stars anyway(they are moderated after all by the site owner).

    We the consumers of the service we don't care. We all are sheep's and will use google anyway. It's not like there are other choices.
    03-26-2013 10:11 AM
  4. WinFan1's Avatar
    Can't force a corporation to make software for your platform because it is a video streaming service especially if it's free of charge. So it's not like everyone should receive time and money from google on every platform. But it seams to many lack of youtube app is a problem. And this means google has achieved it's objective. It just blocks windows phone 8 adoption because people want youtube official app and they can't get it.

    What surprises me that even with so many controversial moves by google people still love them and use their services. People don't refuse to use gmail even they know that google is reading their emails to serve them adds and to mine their data. They don't care. People are loving calendar sync even if it will become harder for other services that use google to use this(google mines those data too). People want google+ even though it's not that good and the api available for it does not allow posting so you can't come with apps that are useful for that platform but hey who cares it's not like you need API we are not all developers. Google shopping is pay for rank only but hey who cares about finding relevant data on shopping online I mean if that guy can afford money for google they provide great services right? Google does not serve you add based on your search query only no it serves you add based on your google experience history. Hey but who cares about that? It's not like a coworker or a friend can see what kind of ads are served to you and determine what you are searching on google so what if your girlfriend realize you have some issues by the ads you are served she should know the truth right? Who cares negative seo is destroying search results or that you have to pollute the web with useless articles in blogs to make white seo? I mean come on does anyone care? Who cares that by simply putting the review stars for a web page(google standard) you get on top of better search results? They do look cool right? And they will show 4, 5 stars anyway(they are moderated after all by the site owner).

    We the consumers of the service we don't care. We all are sheep's and will use google anyway. It's not like there are other choices.
    i never said they are obligated to create an application, since again microsoft worked with the youtube team to develope one, i agree with you on all other points, except that i cannot bring myself to trust google. personally speaking and not speaking for anyone else. See heres the problem im having, i use youtube because currently the pure mainstream power of youtube forces me to use it to watch videos, what do i mean? already established channels that i enjoy watching and following are not suddenly gonna move to a different website simply because i do not trust google, therefore if google knows the pure power that youtube has and instagram knows they influence they have it seems a bit selfish to withhold such services to loyal customers hungry for their app. IF microsoft paid for developement of those applications would it make their interest in developing said app increase? this is the issue im having with google. Google just happened to make a smart purchase with youtube, and again i agree they dont have to do anything for microsoft, but say they do it for their fans who just happen to use ms products? Corporations like Google and Ms in the past ruin consumer experience by using petty statistics rather than actually keeping the customer happy. Then we all end up suffering the consequences of it. if windows phone was on equal footing with ios and android would android or ios be the obvious choice? prolly not so handicapping for the sake of winning costs the consumer choice.
    03-26-2013 12:03 PM
  5. ag1986's Avatar
    Cute.

    YouTube already worked with Microsoft. Google shut it down because Google hates Microsoft.

    End of story. Period. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
    The only proof we have of this mythical MS-developed YT app comes from MS itself. There is no evidence apart from one statement by an MS executive and as such, it looks like vaporware and another tantrum by the same people responsible for the ridiculous Scroogled campaign.
    03-26-2013 01:27 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    The only proof we have of this mythical MS-developed YT app comes from MS itself. There is no evidence apart from one statement by an MS executive and as such, it looks like vaporware and another tantrum by the same people responsible for the ridiculous Scroogled campaign.
    I would recommend taking those blinders off. If there was nothing to this story, then Google would have at least denied it. After all, Microsoft communicated this in an official press release! Your claim, that this statement was made by a single MS exec, is false.

    Going completely silent validates both the story and Google's understanding that it isn't good PR.
    03-26-2013 01:44 PM
  7. ag1986's Avatar
    I would recommend taking those blinders off. If there was nothing to this story, then Google would have at least denied it. After all, Microsoft communicated this in an official press release! The statement wasn't made by random MS exec like you mentioned.

    Going completely silent validates both the story and Google's understanding that it isn't good PR.
    Historically, Google doesn't say much to the press. There was no reaction to the Scroogled campaign, for example. Nor to many of the other accusations MS and others have made over the years. Even when there was empirical evidence that those accusations are false. Their allegation that they worked with YT to produce an app and then Google smacked it down is completely ridiculous. I have more than one friend working at YT and there is no distinction any more; YT is an integral part of Google and this project, if it ever existed, would have had to get at least VP-level review (more likely would have required the personal approval of Salar Kamangar) before getting the green light to start talking with MS. This is what makes the whole thing sound false to me.

    I'm just saying, MS, after they hired that Republican spin doctor guy, have started spreading FUD instead of actually building good products that people want to use. And as for YT specifically, Google has shown that they want to be able to control their users' experience on their services, and it's been good. The new Maps, Gmail and YT apps on iOS are universally acknowledged to be some of the best on the platform, both in terms of design and usability. It doesn't make sense to invest the same cost on WP when the user base is still like 2-2.5% of users. Also, the primary reason Google wants to do this (own the apps on all platforms) is that they can ensure that their advertising content is delivered and such delivery is tracked. This is how YT makes money to pay content creators and this is not something you should have a problem with. Remember the Apple-created YT & Google Maps apps didn't have ads.
    03-26-2013 01:58 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    Historically, Google doesn't say much to the press. There was no reaction to the Scroogled campaign, for example
    Google reacts to unfair accusations just like anyone else. Maybe not quickly, and maybe not through official press releases, but they do get their opinion out in one form or another.

    For example, here is their response to the Scroogled campaign, from their public policy blog.

    Also, the probability of MS publishing an official press release, in which they lie about having created a YT app with support from YT employees, is ZERO. It's just far to easy to get sued over such easily verifiable statements.

    IMHO you are dismissing an entirely uncontroversial press release in order to support your view on Google. I don't think that makes a winning argument.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-26-2013 at 03:47 PM. Reason: public policy blog, not website
    03-26-2013 03:20 PM
  9. omniusovermind's Avatar
    The loss is yours. Don't kid yourself; Google knows how many users they could gain, and it's not enough to be worth the investment. Users who have made the same decision you have are few enough that Google doesn't care. I'm not saying I feel it's right or wrong, but that's the way it is. Google doesn't owe WP users anything. If they thought there was a buck to be made they would do it. They are in business to turn a profit like every other business on the face of the planet.

    Picture a town with a population of 50 in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. Do they have the right to demand Walmart to build them a store?
    Perfectly stated.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-26-2013 04:15 PM
  10. EasilyTheBest's Avatar
    I think that unlike other mobile OSes Microsoft has Bing. Google know that somewhere down the line WP8 could get to 20%+ market share. That instantly gets people using Bing.
    Microsoft has the Nextbox soon it could end up being a cable hub in the living room with again Bing.
    Its getting people into the habit of using Bing that Google worries about.
    03-26-2013 05:14 PM
  11. Ordeith's Avatar
    Perfectly stated.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Not really.
    It is closer to Google ignoring the entire state of Arizona because Eric Schmidt visited once and didn't have a good time.
    03-26-2013 07:48 PM
  12. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Not really.
    It is closer to Google ignoring the entire state of Arizona because Eric Schmidt visited once and didn't have a good time.
    Return vs investment. There's plenty of company app developers like banks) who won't make apps for bb10 or wp8 because they don't feel the cost is worth the effort. Google is just doing the same thing many other companies and indie devs have been doing all along. Frankly I find the underlying sentiment is some of these posts that Google is somehow going to suffer a threat from MS laughable. Anyone who thinks they're just standing still not continuing to look for ways to continue being profitable is delusional. Are they under the impression that they're more qualified than Google's directors to run a billion dollar empire? Or that maybe the CEO is going to read this thread and say oh boy, I didn't realize how close to doom we are? Standing perfectly still when you know you're about to get punched in the face isn't what normal people do.

    If anyone is doing it wrong right now look closer to home. MS and Google BOTH don't let you choose anything other than their own search providers for the OS although you can on the browsers. MS and Google are BOTH at fault on calendar support. Google for the exchange active sync support removal and Microsoft for not implementing CalDAV and CardDAV support. I'm not sure if you're an old fart like me but I vividly remember how badly MS behaved in the 90's when they had a much more gargantuan monopoly over the tech industry. If you remember those days you should be very skeptical of the company's attitude being any different today. This whole "Google is evil I trust MS to do the right thing" attitude I've seen around wpcentral is a product of the younger members who weren't old enough to remember the bill gates era. On that note, Steve jobs wasn't the altruistic saintly underdog iOS fans try to paint him out to be either.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by omniusovermind; 03-27-2013 at 01:26 AM.
    ohgood likes this.
    03-27-2013 12:53 AM
  13. Darkgift's Avatar
    I've been reading this thread and even posted. But this is ridiculous. Google is totally at fault in this YouTube fiasco, and any other brick in the wall that's been going up. Its not market share. Seriously? You really believe that? If anything, market sharr is a minute aspect to the reasoning behind Google's black listing of Microsoft. And for the record, I'm 37, and remember the 90s well. This is totally not the same thing. This is worse. Anyone who trusts Google in any sense if the word is insane. Whether its with their personal info or with blatantly trying to build an isolated world of their own. (pretty much what Apple has been trying to do).
    03-27-2013 02:36 AM
  14. AngryNil's Avatar
    The only proof we have of this mythical MS-developed YT app comes from MS itself. There is no evidence apart from one statement by an MS executive and as such, it looks like vaporware and another tantrum by the same people responsible for the ridiculous Scroogled campaign.
    Where's your proof?

    That's right, we've got Microsoft officially stating that Google shut down the YouTube app - twice - and Google hasn't said a thing. Cat caught its tongue?
    03-27-2013 04:11 AM
  15. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Call me when Google gets so bad the USA DoJ actually steps in and forces the company to restructure its infrastructure due to antitrust like MS :rolleyes:

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-27-2013 05:28 AM
  16. EasilyTheBest's Avatar
    Google obviously ain't standing still, they are trying to get into a ton of things.
    The trouble is their only substantial money cow is search.
    If there was a sea change in people using search and Google's share of search dropped by 20% or more what then. At the moment it is estimated that Microsoft makes more per phone sold using Android than Google actually does. Microsoft makes more money on android than they do on WPs up till now.
    Its like a game of chess and not bringing a Youtube app etc to WPs is one of Google's moves.
    03-27-2013 05:51 AM
  17. WinFan1's Avatar
    Google obviously ain't standing still, they are trying to get into a ton of things.
    The trouble is their only substantial money cow is search.
    If there was a sea change in people using search and Google's share of search dropped by 20% or more what then. At the moment it is estimated that Microsoft makes more per phone sold using Android than Google actually does. Microsoft makes more money on android than they do on WPs up till now.
    Its like a game of chess and not bringing a Youtube app etc to WPs is one of Google's moves.
    'THATS WHAT I WAS TELLING YOU B'FO" (cleveland show reference) but yes thats how i see it as well, Google realizes that microsoft has much more to stand on in regards to income than just search, microsoft has windows, server, azure, office, xbox, surface which by the way has made them alot of money regardless of the small amount they sold, they also have bing, they are deeply embedded in the corporate world, and while google has a good thing going with android even though oems rue the day they crossed IP lines with ms and ms makes more money on each phone sold. Search really is the only thing that sustains them, and if microsoft continues to improve Bing, and takes it out of beta for various countries, google should be defensive.
    03-27-2013 06:52 AM
  18. Darkgift's Avatar
    Call me when Google gets so bad the USA DoJ actually steps in and forces the company to restructure its infrastructure due to antitrust like MS :rolleyes:

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    it'll happen. I'll put my money on it.
    03-27-2013 07:37 AM
  19. omniusovermind's Avatar
    it'll happen. I'll put my money on it.
    I'd bet on it too. And when it does, so what? It'll support the point I made still anyway.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-27-2013 07:57 AM
  20. Abdul Rahman Noor's Avatar
    Any company that gets "too big and powerful" will eventually try to force things their way.
    Microsoft did this back in the 90s...
    Apple's been doing this since 2009 (remember their arrogance with no-flash when flash ruled mobile markets, antennagate and the samsung lawsuits?)
    And no doubt Google will also do it if not already (their "No, we will not develop for WP" being an example of this)

    Just like any country that gets too big and powerful will try to force things their way *cough*USA*cough*...
    omniusovermind likes this.
    03-27-2013 08:02 AM
  21. Darkgift's Avatar
    I'd bet on it too. And when it does, so what? It'll support the point I made still anyway.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Actually it wouldn't support ur point at all. Sorry. But that was slick trying to play both hands. Can't have ur cake and eat it too.
    03-27-2013 11:42 AM
  22. ag1986's Avatar
    I've been reading this thread and even posted. But this is ridiculous. Google is totally at fault in this YouTube fiasco, and any other brick in the wall that's been going up. Its not market share. Seriously? You really believe that? If anything, market sharr is a minute aspect to the reasoning behind Google's black listing of Microsoft. And for the record, I'm 37, and remember the 90s well. This is totally not the same thing. This is worse. Anyone who trusts Google in any sense if the word is insane. Whether its with their personal info or with blatantly trying to build an isolated world of their own. (pretty much what Apple has been trying to do).
    How is market share not significant? I see Google developing for iOS because why? Market share. And if there are ever enough WP users that income from ads on Google apps for WP exceeds cost to develop those apps, then Google will develop for WP (note that a good programmer easily net 140-160K a year minimum, cost to company is much higher).

    And you clearly don't remember MS secretly paying people to sue Linux developers, MS intentionally breaking Windows to not work with non-IE browsers and media players.
    03-27-2013 12:00 PM
  23. ag1986's Avatar
    'THATS WHAT I WAS TELLING YOU B'FO" (cleveland show reference) but yes thats how i see it as well, Google realizes that microsoft has much more to stand on in regards to income than just search, microsoft has windows, server, azure, office, xbox, surface which by the way has made them alot of money regardless of the small amount they sold, they also have bing, they are deeply embedded in the corporate world, and while google has a good thing going with android even though oems rue the day they crossed IP lines with ms and ms makes more money on each phone sold. Search really is the only thing that sustains them, and if microsoft continues to improve Bing, and takes it out of beta for various countries, google should be defensive.
    And they still have a stock price and market cap far higher than MS. Truth be told, it was a sad day when Ballmer took over MS. Gates was a visionary, MS did scummy things under him but those were different days and times. He got things done - nowadays all MS does seem to be tantrum ad campaigns. I do respect the non-tiled parts of Win8 and the nice things they do with Office, though.
    03-27-2013 12:03 PM
  24. Darkgift's Avatar
    How is market share not significant? I see Google developing for iOS because why? Market share. And if there are ever enough WP users that income from ads on Google apps for WP exceeds cost to develop those apps, then Google will develop for WP (note that a good programmer easily net 140-160K a year minimum, cost to company is much higher).

    And you clearly don't remember MS secretly paying people to sue Linux developers, MS intentionally breaking Windows to not work with non-IE browsers and media players.
    Easy answers for a simple question. They make for Apple because of market share, yes, but also because they want to be Apple. With Microsoft its obviously different. They fear them gaining traction so they deploy shady tactics instead of good ol' fashion American business competition. (yes I said American...they are both American companies after all.)

    And yes I remember, and I also remember them getting called out on it, and not long after there was a shift in upper management and business tactics within the company. And why would I care about things that happened 20 years ago with a company that has changed for the better, personnel and image wise. Face it. You Google lovers just gcan't accept the fact that the company practices shady business methods with the public and its competitors. You defend them to the last breath, when I don't think you understand the corruption you defend. I'd hope that if you were able to step back and see what's going on within that company, you'd boycott them as much as possible. If not, then the scary part would be to realize that you're the type to accept said corruption and enable it, making you just as corrupted. Being nave is chalked up to being a blind sheep, being as corrupt is just plain evil, man.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-27-2013 12:29 PM
  25. Ordeith's Avatar
    Call me when Google gets so bad the USA DoJ actually steps in and forces the company to restructure its infrastructure due to antitrust like MS :rolleyes:

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Eric Schmidt will just take another threatening trip to North Korea and the US government will back down.
    03-27-2013 01:36 PM
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