05-21-2013 09:59 PM
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  1. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Did you ever see that video of Ballmer skipping and screaming like a crazed lunatic on stage? It's disturbing

    sent from the slow as hell connection hanging Tapatalk app
    You mean this? I'm not sure disturbing is the word...
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-14-2013 05:27 PM
  2. migueli2's Avatar
    Cocaine do that!
    04-14-2013 06:15 PM
  3. AaHaa's Avatar
    Today, I watched both Steve Ballmer and Erick Schmidt's College Tour episodes:





    And after seeying this, I've gained some new respect for Ballmer. Overall, he seems like a nicer guy than Schmidt and pretty aware of the situation he and Microsoft is in (I couldn't help laughing when he acted like he could'nt get the word "Google" out of his mouth).
    But what actually scared me (which is what this topic is about) is their relationship with Neelie Kroes ("our" Dutch European Commissioner for Digital Agenda). First, with the Ballmer interview, she's seen a some kind of nemesis, fining Microsoft millions of dollars and generally hating the company. Then, in the Schmidt interview, she's seen again, but this time very friendly and happy, being very close with Schmidt and Google. Same goes for frickin' Obama! So Google is cozying up to world leaders, forcing up services like Google Plus, Google Maps, Chrome and Android by using their monopoly position, while Microsoft is getting fined for a freaking web browser that's pre-installed on computers?? That is just plain unfair!
    Laura Knotek and WinFan1 like this.
    04-15-2013 11:32 AM
  4. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Here is another example of Google being selfish unhelpful and evil again. How dare they have a non profit crisis assistance department
    http://mashable.com/2013/04/15/bosto...person-finder/

    sent from the slow as hell connection hanging Tapatalk app
    04-15-2013 08:57 PM
  5. AaHaa's Avatar
    Come on, don't be so sarcastic. No one ever said Google doesn't do good stuff. Doesn't change the fact that things like this gives them the holy saint company-image that they're after, and people will only love the company more after things like this (or April Fool's, or Google Doodles etc). In fact, everyone loves Google so much that they'll automatically hate everything that's not Google, like Microsoft. This phenomenon has been going on for years now, and has contributed to Google's internet monopoly, if you ask me.
    04-16-2013 03:35 AM
  6. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Come on, don't be so sarcastic. No one ever said Google doesn't do good stuff. Doesn't change the fact that things like this gives them the holy saint company-image that they're after, and people will only love the company more after things like this (or April Fool's, or Google Doodles etc). In fact, everyone loves Google so much that they'll automatically hate everything that's not Google, like Microsoft. This phenomenon has been going on for years now, and has contributed to Google's internet monopoly, if you ask me.
    Not me I like and use both of those companies and others too. Just taking some pokes in fun at some of the "omg I hate them and boycotted all their stuff" posts here ;)

    sent from the slow as hell connection hanging Tapatalk app
    04-16-2013 04:58 AM
  7. Dantekai14's Avatar
    They have already come up with many things better than Google.

    Windows, IE10, Outlook, Office, Xbox... Even Search bing seems far better in countries is isnt BETA.

    Although some things depend on personal taste for me IE10 is much more beautiful than Chrome, Chrome is really fast and amazing but its ugly as fuc*...i have to say those tabs are awfull, i can see why is dropping marketshare like crazy.

    I dont think Microsoft nis afraid, i think they just want to give Google a bad name, yes its stupid but we never said Ballmer was a Smart guy anyway, that guy should never been a CEO from this company, he might succeed with Windows 8 on Tablets and Pcs in the years to come bue he still sucks as CEO, i mean this company does not need to attack Google, they need to keep improving their products, they have been doing really well but are allways a little late, Microsoft like to wait and its usually works but lets be honest here, Ballmer sucks imo.
    But Google isn't in competition with Microsoft in Windows,Office Xbox etc.

    I don't know about you but I don't know anyone who prefer or like Bing search. Google search is more accurate and show result which I need, Bing can't do that for me..

    About Chrome and IE 10. Its all about your taste, I prefer Chrome because it is easy and fast and I like its design, My few friends like Firefox because they find it more comfortable and you like IE 10.
    Pick up any service which Google and Microsoft both provide.
    Android vs. WP (Android win )
    Gmail vs. Hotmail (Gmail win)
    Google vs. Bing (Google Win)
    IE 10 vs Google Chrome (Google Win) (According to http://gs.statcounter.com/)
    Yotube is also best video site etc.................(All win based on Market Share)

    As you can see if there is competition with Google and Microsoft in maximum cases Google wins.
    So, I think that is why Microsoft keep comparing their product with Google, showing that there product is better.
    .
    Google never compare their product with Microsoft but Microsoft does.
    (No offence )Which I think because of Afraid.
    Last edited by Dantekai14; 04-16-2013 at 10:20 AM.
    04-16-2013 10:09 AM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    But Google isn't in competition with Microsoft in Windows,Office Xbox etc.

    I don't know about you but I don't know anyone who prefer or like Bing search. Google search is more accurate and show result which I need, Bing can't do that for me..

    About Chrome and IE 10. Its all about your taste, I prefer Chrome because it is easy and fast and I like its design, My few friends like Firefox because they find it more comfortable and you like IE 10.
    Pick up any service which Google and Microsoft both provide.
    Android vs. WP (Android win )
    Gmail vs. Hotmail (Gmail win)
    Google vs. Bing (Google Win)
    IE 10 vs Google Chrome (Google Win) (According to StatCounter Global Stats - Browser, OS, Search Engine including Mobile Market Share)
    Yotube is also best video site etc.................(All win based on Market Share)

    As you can see if there is competition with Google and Microsoft in maximum cases Google wins.
    So, I think that is why Microsoft keep comparing their product with Google, showing that there product is better.
    .
    Google never compare their product with Microsoft but Microsoft does.
    (No offence )Which I think because of Afraid.
    You are incorrect about the popularity of Gmail. It is not the most popular web-based email service: that is still Yahoo Mail. Email Client Market Share: June 2012 – Litmus

    Hotmail was also more popular than Gmail.
    04-16-2013 11:15 AM
  9. Dantekai14's Avatar
    You are incorrect about the popularity of Gmail. It is not the most popular web-based email service: that is still Yahoo Mail. Email Client Market Share: June 2012 – Litmus

    Hotmail was also more popular than Gmail.
    Ok, My Bad.
    Microsoft lead in Email.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-16-2013 11:57 AM
  10. bjd223's Avatar
    Also all the services you quote are free services. Google has to invest everything in these services because they would be out of business if they didn't. MS makes so much money on Windows and Office that it doesn't need to be number 1 in every segment. However, MS has started investing a lot of time and money in it's services and it's really starting to show. Just recently MS released some numbers on the amount of people switching to Outlook.com for email from Google and it was something like 30 million users in 2-3 months.

    Also you missed some core services like Google Docs vs. Skydrive. Which numbers are hard to find but there is a ton of competition in this space and I doubt it Google is first. Microsoft may not be first however now with Windows Skydrive integration there must be tons of new users.
    04-16-2013 12:54 PM
  11. ag1986's Avatar
    Ok, My Bad.
    Microsoft lead in Email.
    This actually goes to make a different point. Email addresses, like phone numbers, have retention value; people don't want to stop using Gmail or Hotmail or Yahoo simply because other people have these addresses and notifying all of them is too much trouble, plus people are not aware of the migration tools available. A relative of mine had a frakkin AOL.com address simply because it was her ISP back in the day (since became TalkTalk...). I migrated her to Gmail in about ten minutes, with autoretrieval over POP3 for her old accounts, zero friction.

    Anyway. I was trying to say that MS leads in the markets they pioneered: desktop OS, office suites and indeed hotmail, the first free web-based email service. But they're showing a sad inability to create new markets OR become the leaders in new markets - Online services (search etc), cloud computing (Azure vs AWS etc), mobile OS, and similar - with the X360 being an exception.
    Dantekai14 likes this.
    04-16-2013 12:58 PM
  12. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Also all the services you quote are free services. Google has to invest everything in these services because they would be out of business if they didn't. MS makes so much money on Windows and Office that it doesn't need to be number 1 in every segment. However, MS has started investing a lot of time and money in it's services and it's really starting to show. Just recently MS released some numbers on the amount of people switching to Outlook.com for email from Google and it was something like 30 million users in 2-3 months.

    Also you missed some core services like Google Docs vs. Skydrive. Which numbers are hard to find but there is a ton of competition in this space and I doubt it Google is first. Microsoft may not be first however now with Windows Skydrive integration there must be tons of new users.
    I prefer Sky drive to Google drive although gdrive seems to be getting better

    sent from the slow as hell connection hanging Tapatalk app
    04-16-2013 05:38 PM
  13. ChMar's Avatar
    This actually goes to make a different point. Email addresses, like phone numbers, have retention value; people don't want to stop using Gmail or Hotmail or Yahoo simply because other people have these addresses and notifying all of them is too much trouble, plus people are not aware of the migration tools available. A relative of mine had a frakkin AOL.com address simply because it was her ISP back in the day (since became TalkTalk...). I migrated her to Gmail in about ten minutes, with autoretrieval over POP3 for her old accounts, zero friction.

    Anyway. I was trying to say that MS leads in the markets they pioneered: desktop OS, office suites and indeed hotmail, the first free web-based email service. But they're showing a sad inability to create new markets OR become the leaders in new markets - Online services (search etc), cloud computing (Azure vs AWS etc), mobile OS, and similar - with the X360 being an exception.
    It's not that they are unable to provide good services(search etc) or cloud computing(here they rely have top notch services). Users have a very large inertia and won't switch or won't even try new stuff unless a vast majority of the people around them are using such services.

    For example maps. Google is able to provide superior maps services just because anyone is using google. I make an web site for my small company(pizza restaurant or whatever). I'm not a web developer so I hire a developing company. That company only registers the site and the address on google services they won't consider registering that site on all other services. This is so true in my country that bing only has 10-20% of the locations that google has. And I assume this translates everywhere worldwide.

    Microsoft can't become number 1 in such areas because no one can. The service are is a special area. The more people uses those services the better they become(data mining) so there is nothing they can do. They can make software but that is only part of the equation. The other part is the mass of people using those softwares. To overcome such user inertia it requires a lot of time and the willingness to compete even if you can't make a good profit or be number one. So far MS has shown this stubbornness to compete against google which I think it's good(maybe not in the mobile space).

    I remain astonished when I have to deal with web developers writing css in web pages that uses webkit extensions. When I tell them that the webpage is not looking good in my browser and they find out I'm using IE10 they start complaining why I don't use chrome. When I ask them why they had to use those webkit extensions all I get from them is the following question: "How can I do this without webkit extensions then???". This speaks a lot about the misconceptions that exists(and it's even more grotesque when those misconceptions are found in people that are professional software developers) and the lack of education and knowledge about what else is there,
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-16-2013 06:09 PM
  14. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    funny that you mentioned the webkit extensions as google chrome is now switching off webkit lol... So now firefox, IE, and google chrome don't use webkit...seems like the majority of browsers to me.
    04-16-2013 09:38 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    funny that you mentioned the webkit extensions as google chrome is now switching off webkit lol... So now firefox, IE, and google chrome don't use webkit...seems like the majority of browsers to me.
    The majority of browsers are not based on webkit, yes, but that is irrelevant because over 95% of the traffic on the mobile web originates from those few browsers that are.

    I'm skeptical Google will do the right thing here though. I've read they will dump Apple's proprietary extensions, but what about their own? Might they introduce even more of their own? I suspect they will.
    04-16-2013 09:56 PM
  16. spaulagain's Avatar
    funny that you mentioned the webkit extensions as google chrome is now switching off webkit lol... So now firefox, IE, and google chrome don't use webkit...seems like the majority of browsers to me.
    Wrong, Google Chrome is going to switch, they haven't done it yet. Just because they announce they are making the switch doesn't mean it has happened yet.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-16-2013 10:06 PM
  17. ChMar's Avatar
    funny that you mentioned the webkit extensions as google chrome is now switching off webkit lol... So now firefox, IE, and google chrome don't use webkit...seems like the majority of browsers to me.
    Chrome at the moment is webkit and they forked the webkit. The extensions will remain there new ones will appear they will change mostly how javascript works and add new additions. I'm sure they wont touch any existing webkit extensions.

    The problem with webkit in current incarnation is that only apple can add new extensions. And this of course bugs google now that it has the advantage. So the move is made so that they can add more not to make absolute the current extensions.

    Firefox also sent mixed signals about incorporating webkit extensions(still using gecko as their javascript engine though).
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-16-2013 10:38 PM
  18. spaulagain's Avatar
    From my understanding, Blink (which is what Google has announced they are switching to) is actually based off of Webkit as well.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-17-2013 12:45 PM
  19. farukdgn's Avatar
    Everyone uses windows. Isn't that enough? I think google is scared of Microsoft. Why wouldn't a "big" company release apps for a mobile os? Also google copies everything they see, like Android (from iOS) and chrome os (from all other operating systems). Yes,I hate google. Google steals our privacy.
    James8561 likes this.
    04-17-2013 01:32 PM
  20. ChMar's Avatar
    Everyone is using windows but what for? Sure they use search engines when they navigate and email services and so on. So google is attaching itself as a parasite in windows and all OSs that support browsers.

    Mobile space I very different. You have so much more data to harvest beside keywords you use to search and emails. GPS location(from the gps sensor and form data in the photos) photos, contacts(you don't have a centralized contact storage in windows that is used by all apps. Some use the windows folder for contacts, some outlook some have their contacts on the cloud but on the phone you have all of them in one single place), emails(also from gmail and all other providers as they are stored in a single place), sms, etc.

    So for them it is much more important to have a presence in mobile space than on desktop(and let's face it we use smartphones more and more). And because they offer services and not software(their mobile OS is open source) they can't be touched by anti-trust laws(since they don't offer products).

    The only way they can go down is if people will stop using their services and accept a short term inconvenience that comes with this. And this won't happened. If the user of apple ecosystem who are very loyal could not accept apple maps shortcomings until they can be fixed I don't imagine anyone will give up using what they are using every day(google services).

    So unless google screws up the law it is here to reign supreme.
    04-17-2013 01:48 PM
  21. iHuGi's Avatar
    Everyone is using windows but what for? Sure they use search engines when they navigate and email services and so on. So google is attaching itself as a parasite in windows and all OSs that support browsers.

    Mobile space I very different. You have so much more data to harvest beside keywords you use to search and emails. GPS location(from the gps sensor and form data in the photos) photos, contacts(you don't have a centralized contact storage in windows that is used by all apps. Some use the windows folder for contacts, some outlook some have their contacts on the cloud but on the phone you have all of them in one single place), emails(also from gmail and all other providers as they are stored in a single place), sms, etc.

    So for them it is much more important to have a presence in mobile space than on desktop(and let's face it we use smartphones more and more). And because they offer services and not software(their mobile OS is open source) they can't be touched by anti-trust laws(since they don't offer products).

    The only way they can go down is if people will stop using their services and accept a short term inconvenience that comes with this. And this won't happened. If the user of apple ecosystem who are very loyal could not accept apple maps shortcomings until they can be fixed I don't imagine anyone will give up using what they are using every day(google services).

    So unless google screws up the law it is here to reign supreme.
    Google is just that, an App company, just like everyone is using Facebook, Twitter or Youtube.

    Most people do that on Windows, many people are also using Microsoft products, Skydrive is way bigger than Google Drive, Everyone is using Office, many people use Bing, Milions use Hotmail or Outlook, many more milions will be using as Windows 8 gains traction. Just to not talk about Microsoft Enterpricse business.

    Google sure has great products that are used by Milion but Facebook is almost bigger than the Whole Google in site visits, Facebook will be the new king in town, if they add search to face and a videotube channel, it will be huge.
    04-17-2013 02:09 PM
  22. ChMar's Avatar
    Google is just that, an App company, just like everyone is using Facebook, Twitter or Youtube.

    Most people do that on Windows, many people are also using Microsoft products, Skydrive is way bigger than Google Drive, Everyone is using Office, many people use Bing, Milions use Hotmail or Outlook, many more milions will be using as Windows 8 gains traction. Just to not talk about Microsoft Enterpricse business.

    Google sure has great products that are used by Milion but Facebook is almost bigger than the Whole Google in site visits, Facebook will be the new king in town, if they add search to face and a videotube channel, it will be huge.
    Google has Google apps for enterprises and a lot of business use that. Office is not used by all the casual people and the casual market is way more bigger than enterprise sector.

    Bing may be good in USA and maybe UK but it's lousy on other countries. Gmail has gained a lot of traction and while not bigger yet than Hotmail or yahoo it's still one of the most important aspect in google inventory. Windows 8 does not force you to use outlook or Hotmail. You need a windows account which you can safely make using your gmail account.

    Sure facebook has more visits than google but you don't use facebook to search for shopping, hotels, car renting or other type of information. While it's true that amazon can steal some clients there google is still more used not only in states but around the globe.

    Now that google is forcing to people the google+ on android they will be able to brag how large their network has become. Wait until all commercials end with not just a facebook page but a google+ account too and you will see how facebook influence starts to diminish.

    Youtube has always had competition(Vimeo) but managed to remain so popular and it's probably surpassing the visits the facebook site is having on a daily basis.

    Medium and small business are so dependent of google and their adds that no one can make google disappear.
    04-17-2013 02:24 PM
  23. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Everyone uses windows. Isn't that enough? I think google is scared of Microsoft. Why wouldn't a "big" company release apps for a mobile os? Also google copies everything they see, like Android (from iOS) and chrome os (from all other operating systems). Yes,I hate google. Google steals our privacy.
    You and Mary Walcott would've gotten along really well with each other

    sent from the slow as hell connection hanging Tapatalk app
    04-17-2013 03:20 PM
  24. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    Sorry, you're right, they havent switched yet but are going to is what I meant to say. In any case, is blink really based on webkit? I can easily imagine that being the case but I feel it wouldn't really benefit them to keep supporting a standard that they have no control over, I'm surprised, with as popular as chrome is, that they wouldn't want to make something proprietary that other web developers would be forced to adopt. Thankfully we have HTML 5 that whenever it matures and gets better, all browsers will be forced to support for cross-compatibility.

    In any case, while google does have a lot of apps for business, I think they are still going to have a hard time switching companies from microsoft just because MS has been in enterprise forever and still do an amazing job with it too. The main thing about google that I have learned over the years is they are THE company that gets the internet and pretty much always have been. I'm not saying other companies like MS, apple, or amazon aren't great at it, I mean if anything, except bing, I think MS has a better web app for almost everything google offers, but google just usually does it first when it comes to the web. Another good thing about them is they are great at hiding their past failures like google wave, same with apple, anybody heard of the newton? Which is always funny about microsoft is their the exact opposite, people always harp on their failures, but never about the excellent things they do make, like office, and windows phone, even windows 8.

    My theory that I think still holds true is that people love to hate microsoft no matter how good of a product they make...

    I actually really like windows 8, btw, sure they made a mis step or two like the marketting and not allowing users to boot into destktop on non-touchsreen devices, but I have a tablet and metro is freaking awesome...
    04-17-2013 07:06 PM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    Thankfully we have HTML 5 that whenever it matures and gets better, all browsers will be forced to support for cross-compatibility.
    Blink is webkit! The difference is only that going forward, Google can take blink in any direction they choose. Over time, blink will diverge ever more from its webkit roots.

    Also, HTML5 (which is just one standard of many) and the standardization process in general, isn't what you imagine it to be:

    1) Nobody is forced to conform to a standard.
    2) Although a standards body exists, the mobile web is currently so webkit centric, that whatever webkit features web developers end up using is what actually becomes the standard.
    3) Google isn't about to invest hundreds of millions annually, just to bring us a standards compliant rendering engine.
    4) The chances of this event marking the beginning of a new age, in which all browsers get along and agree that standards compliance is important, is almost zero. The move is almost certainly in the interest of the exact opposite.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-18-2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Spelling
    ChMar likes this.
    04-18-2013 12:41 AM
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