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09-17-2013 07:56 AM
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  1. csd_images's Avatar
    Windows Phone is not for business, its for consumers as Windows 8 is for consumers; why they are leaving out business functions for pretty metro touch and now having to add them back (start button and booting to desktop, things businesses would need). How is Windows Phone 8 1st gen? Windows Phone 8 is the SECOND version of the operating system, so how is is 1st gen? Because it has a new number on it? Then we should say IOS 6 is a 1st gen os, but its actually a 6th gen os. Actually with Windows Phone 7.5 bring so many improvements to Windows Phone 7, one could say Windows Phone 8 is a 3rd gen os, but I will stick with 2nd gen.

    Windows Phone was launched in October 2010, make it about 2.5 years old and approaching 3 years old and only two main os revisions? Microsoft lost the "new kid on the block" in like 2011. They need to shape up and get moving and innovate on this really cool and powerful mobile os. Blackberry 10 is the only "new kid on the block" and just barely a month out and 10.1 is coming out and fixing tons of issues and adding features. I agree with many here, Microsoft is lagging behind and many are makign excuses for them and Nokia and other companies should not be fixing their issues.
    Firstly, boot to desktop has been pretty confirmed for Kiosk mode something that's for, you guessed it, commercial and public environments. Win 8 has numerous features, alongside WP 8 that makes it business friendly. in WP8 case it can be managed by Exchange policies and has the same Bitlocker support as it's desktop counterpart. Whilst it's not as full fledged in some aspects as other mobile OS it's suitable for business by the number of wins it has and been reported on WP Central. I use the Lumia 920 in a commercial environment to link into a Exchange server and also a Sharepoint server, something that has choked many Android devices that's been tested. In Win 8 you have Windows-to-Go, RemoteFX, Client Hyper-V, new restore and deployment modes and more. Whilst it's targeted at consumers, there is a lot that shows it's also a business desktop. Unified development environment for Win 8 and WP 8 is also of interest to business.

    WP 8 is a first gen OS no matter what you think. There are fundamental architectural changes under the hood. Whilst WP 8 superficially looks like WP7 they are very much different on so many levels to make it Gen 1. For example it handles native code, it's the same kernel as Win 8, it handles far more processors and RAM than WP 7 ever could. WP 7 was built off WinCE which was the foundations of Win Mobile.

    It's also well known that MS update cycle is moving to a yearly one with a mid-year release. It takes time to synchronise Desktop, Mobile, Business and Entertainment divisions something that MS is doing now to streamline development as fast as they can. MS is no small agile start up that can change at a drop of a hat, they are a fully mature business with responsibilities to business, shareholders and board members. Also business environments like predictable releases to plan for changes, something that's not important to consumers. Windows Blue is the first step in this synchronised release schedule for Desktop, Mobile, Server and probably Xbox. Gemini is the first cycle for MS Office that's akin to Windows Blue.
    Last edited by csd_images; 04-24-2013 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Typos
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-24-2013 01:19 PM
  2. sandmanfvr's Avatar
    We can agree to disagree, but in the IT places I work at deal with servers and use to deal with desktop os's, I haven't heard one business want Windows 8. It is an ok os, but it is more consumer based and yes has business built in. Businesses want alot of control on the desktop side and when windows 8 gets a full on desktop mode, then I agree it will be seen more in large enterprise environments.

    Changing the kernel still doesn't make it 1st gen, it is in the same family and same name. Hell the nt kernel in wp8 should be easier to work with and allow Microsoft to roll out these small features like custom notifications, but alas it hasn't happened has it? Why? Well your like you last paragraph said they are going with yearly and bi yearly updating and the actual topic in this thread: Microsoft innovates slowly and wants Nokia and other phone makers to fill in the holes which is the big gripe.

    Windows 8 and all it s derivatives are consumer based and have nice business featuers in it, but if Microsoft is going to go this route, then people that have been in IT for a while like me (and other buddies I have in IT in coding agree), need to see they are wanting to get a nice balance in between consumer and business and on the phone side two big updates a year won't cut it; they will lose customers. We can also disagree on that to if you want, just putting in opinions here. The whole point you made: Microsoft is updating to slow and may be an issue to them, time will tell.
    04-24-2013 01:35 PM
  3. stmav's Avatar
    I'll disagree somewhat. I've been doing network admin for over 15 years and consult now. I have several clients that are looking to integrate the Surface Pro into their networks. The tests so far have had no problems joining the domain and inheriting policies associated with the accounts. So there are businesses interested in Windows 8.

    As far as WP, yes they need to catch up with some features. No doubt. But all some companies care about is that it syncs with exchange and can be remotely erased in case of loss or theft. Both currently present in WP.
    eric12341 likes this.
    04-24-2013 03:19 PM
  4. sandmanfvr's Avatar
    Really? I have had the "hiss and run away" from businesses on the windows 8 thing; hmm well it is up to the businesses and clients. Been a system admin for 10 years or more and most of the time I see companies CLING onto the old software. Interesting.

    I am not bashing Microsoft, but the windows phone os is great, just needs the polish it deserves but that again is up the opinion of the users.
    04-24-2013 04:36 PM
  5. Shellharri's Avatar
    First restore your phone and update your OS version.
    04-25-2013 02:37 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    We can agree to disagree, but in the IT places I work at deal with servers and use to deal with desktop os's, I haven't heard one business want Windows 8
    I would also disagree with you.

    The overwhelming majority of businesses just finished migrating to W7. Even if W8 was the best thing since sliced bread, there is no way in h3ll they would consider switching again now. Most companies used XP for well over ten years. Many will stick with W7 for a similar amount of time. Furthermore, W8 has barely been on the market for half a year. I don't know of a single company that migrates to a new OS that early. I know a few CTOs that would fire staff for even suggesting such a stupid move at this point in time. In other words, how good or bad W8 is doesn't factor into any of this. At all. The adoption rates by businesses wouldn't have been any higher, even if W8 was entirely uncontroversial.

    Finally, W8 is suited just as well to handling business requirements as W7 ever was. There literally is no difference in that regard. However, W8 doesn't ADD anything of business value over W7 either. That is why W8 is considered primarily a consumer focused update. That doesn't make it worse for businesses.

    Changing the kernel still doesn't make it 1st gen, it is in the same family and same name.
    It's hard to take that statement seriously. Are you really suggesting that it is the marketing department that decides if a product is evolutionary or revolutionary? Had they called the exact same product wOS 1.0, would you then have agreed to call it 1st gen?

    I'll explain it using my trusty old house analogy:

    If WP7 was a house, then Microsoft has effectively ripped the entire structure down and demolished the foundation. They then proceeded to lay a new foundation and rebuilt an entirely new house, completely from scratch. However, the new faade strongly resembles that of the old house that once stood there.

    Aliens from mars, not having ever lived in a house and having no real understanding of what a house is, would likely say that it's obviously the same house. It looks similar, so it can't be a brand new house. At most it was renovated.

    That is exactly what you are saying. I'm a software developer, and to me, your statements sound just as ridiculous as the hypothetical aliens do.
    Cleavitt76 likes this.
    04-25-2013 10:55 AM
  7. stmav's Avatar
    Really? I have had the "hiss and run away" from businesses on the windows 8 thing; hmm well it is up to the businesses and clients. Been a system admin for 10 years or more and most of the time I see companies CLING onto the old software. Interesting.

    I am not bashing Microsoft, but the windows phone os is great, just needs the polish it deserves but that again is up the opinion of the users.
    I know what you mean about CLING to the old. There are those that just don't want to give up XP ( and can't really blame them ). I've seen a mixed bag of those that just want to go to the next step in Windows 7 and those that just want to go straight to the latest in Windows 8. I think with companies wanting to be mobile, not just on the road but around the office or plant, carrying a tablet around is even better than a laptop. The Surface Pro makes it a viable option. I think if it was strictly desktop or laptop machines, it would be much less.

    I'm not denying at all that some things need some polish. And that there are some things that are just plain missing. But I do see the end vision of what they are trying to do. I think they will get there, just maybe not as soon as some would like. The fact that we've already had Portico, GDRs and Blue coming down the pipeline. Plus all the updates that Nokia has been pushing out since launch. Gives me hope.
    04-25-2013 10:56 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    Finally, W8 is suited just as well to handling business requirements as W7 ever was. There literally is no difference in that regard. However, W8 doesn't ADD anything of business value over W7 either. That is why W8 is considered primarily a consumer focused update. That doesn't make it worse for businesses.
    Technically true, and I agree, except for one thing: the Modern UI is pretty much exclusively consumer oriented, and virtually all business use will be in desktop mode. But since it's not possible to work in desktop mode 100%, there is a lot of jumping back and forth. Besides being irritating, I find it counterproductive. This contradicts your statement "That doesn't make it worse for businesses."
    04-25-2013 12:02 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Technically true, and I agree, except for one thing: the Modern UI is pretty much exclusively consumer oriented, and virtually all business use will be in desktop mode. But since it's not possible to work in desktop mode 100%, there is a lot of jumping back and forth. Besides being irritating, I find it counterproductive. This contradicts your statement "That doesn't make it worse for businesses."
    I am one of those business users, and I completely agree that jumping back and forth is a royal pain in the a55. However, my statement isn't the contradiction you think it is ;-)

    I'm using W8 right now, and it is technically impossible to start a metro app on this installation of mine. That it isn't possible to spend 100% of your time on the desktop without accidentally falling back into a metro app is a common misconception, and probably responsible for most of W8's image problem.

    I've previously explained it here.

    I recognize that the average consumer probably has little chance of figuring this out for themselves, but companies should have IT support staff that understand how to setup a W8 installation accordingly. Training users then becomes simple as pie, because W8 then feels exactly the same as W7, with the exception of the start screen, which most instantly recognize as being a larger and better replacement for the old start menu.
    tgp likes this.
    04-25-2013 12:44 PM
  10. sandmanfvr's Avatar
    Technically true, and I agree, except for one thing: the Modern UI is pretty much exclusively consumer oriented, and virtually all business use will be in desktop mode. But since it's not possible to work in desktop mode 100%, there is a lot of jumping back and forth. Besides being irritating, I find it counterproductive. This contradicts your statement "That doesn't make it worse for businesses."
    Bingo and what many see: windows 8 is nice, but until 8.1 and an option to focus on business with no metro, then we will see it take off as I would not roll it out in an environment.

    a5cent, you can think I am crazy (don't really care) and I not a software devleoper but I am a system administrator, but if Microsoft puts the NT kernel, that started 20 years ago with Windows NT and I know has evolved but still based off that original kernel, and still are slow at moving with updates to Windows Phone 8. See I would agree with you if Windows Phone 8 has NEW kernel, then I would 110% agree with it being a new 1st gen; it isn't its using NT kernel and no excuse for Microsoft not rolling out features faster other than they don't want to. I mean they put an old kernel on there it make it easier, and they still are not rolling features out except bi yearly updates. *shrugs* Again I said we can disagree and just my opinions, but don't insult my comments please.
    04-25-2013 12:52 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ I've worked with and on operating systems for over 20 years. There is actually some science behind software development, so not everything boils down to just matters of opinion. I don't think you are crazy, but I consider myself qualified enough to say you are objectively wrong on that call.
    04-25-2013 01:08 PM
  12. sandmanfvr's Avatar
    ^ I've worked with and on operating systems for over 20 years. There is actually some science behind software development, so not everything boils down to just matters of opinion. I don't think you are crazy, but I consider myself qualified enough to say you are objectively wrong on that call.
    And I have worked with pcs since MS-DOS 3.1 so yeah I have enough time to say the same. I may be wrong, and my wife says I am alot , but I don't think Microsoft is trying; if there is more to it in the way Windows Phone 8 is being handled and I am jumping the gun, then I am wrong. Don't mind being wrong, only way to learn but I think the NT Kernel should be a strength that makes Windows Phone 8 explode in features over Windows Phone 7, but maybe I am wrong.....
    a5cent likes this.
    04-25-2013 01:13 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    I'll give you a sympathy "like" for the bit about the wife. Same here. ;-)

    On a final note, I would say we should leave judgements about software to those that actually work on it. I probably wouldn't dispute your take on issues related to IT administration either.
    04-25-2013 01:19 PM
  14. sandmanfvr's Avatar
    I am HOPING, the windows blue will be awesome. I just saw this online:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57581433-75/next-xbox-may-sell-for-$499-or-$299-with-two-year-subscription/

    So the new xbox MIGHT be windows 8 to. I am thinking that blue may be the magic bullet for Microsoft. I just hope there are a few updates an features before blue, isn't Microsoft bringing out other stuff mid year of was that a rumor?
    04-25-2013 01:24 PM
  15. stmav's Avatar
    Portico was GDR1. GDR2 is supposed to be coming out this summer. There have already been leaks of it on a HTC phone. Then at some point GDR3 is supposed to be in the pipeline before Blue is released.
    04-25-2013 01:43 PM
  16. sandmanfvr's Avatar
    Can you send me a link to what is suppose to be in those releases? I found this:

    Windows Phone 8 GDR 2.0 details | This Is Nokia

    disappointed on no facebook updates, but liking the other stuff. Looking for GDR3.
    04-25-2013 01:56 PM
  17. farukdgn's Avatar
    When they released wp7, they said that they didn't have enough time to add all features. 3 years passed. What now?
    04-29-2013 11:03 AM
  18. stmav's Avatar
    When they released wp7, they said that they didn't have enough time to add all features. 3 years passed. What now?
    windows7_boot.jpg
    farukdgn likes this.
    04-29-2013 11:32 AM
  19. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    I am HOPING, the windows blue will be awesome. I just saw this online:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57581433-75/next-xbox-may-sell-for-$499-or-$299-with-two-year-subscription/

    So the new xbox MIGHT be windows 8 to. I am thinking that blue may be the magic bullet for Microsoft. I just hope there are a few updates an features before blue, isn't Microsoft bringing out other stuff mid year of was that a rumor?
    I was actually thinking this too, not because of the cnet article, but more because of the switch to an x86 processor for the next xbox. It only makes sense that they would either base it of windows 8, or at the very least its kernel would be windows NT. Especially since they are trying to focus heavily on apps in the xbox now and the next xbox too, my guess would be that its a skinned version of windows 8 that is dumbed down for use on a controller.
    04-29-2013 05:14 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    I am one of those business users, and I completely agree that jumping back and forth is a royal pain in the a55. However, my statement isn't the contradiction you think it is ;-)

    I'm using W8 right now, and it is technically impossible to start a metro app on this installation of mine. That it isn't possible to spend 100% of your time on the desktop without accidentally falling back into a metro app is a common misconception, and probably responsible for most of W8's image problem.

    I've previously explained it here.

    I recognize that the average consumer probably has little chance of figuring this out for themselves, but companies should have IT support staff that understand how to setup a W8 installation accordingly. Training users then becomes simple as pie, because W8 then feels exactly the same as W7, with the exception of the start screen, which most instantly recognize as being a larger and better replacement for the old start menu.
    Well yes a5cent you are correct that it's possible to avoid jumping back and forth if it's set up correctly. When I read what you described I realized that you & I do the same thing. I work in IT, and I spend a small part of my time at work in PC sales and service. I set up customers' PCs to minimize the switching. On my own computer, the only time I use the Modern UI is when I click the corner (where the Start Button used to be) to search for a program or file. Click (jumps to Modern UI), type, Enter (jumps back to desktop to open program or file).

    You and I don't have a problem doing that because we're techs. The average consumer, though, has no clue how to minimize the jumping.

    On another note, rumors are that a form of the Start button is returning.
    04-29-2013 05:50 PM
  21. weetigo's Avatar
    slow? I'm not sure what it is, but the Xbox Music app for iPhone lets you edit the playlists and delete individual tracks, and the Windows Phone 8 app hasn't allowed that since release last fall. That annoys me :/
    09-17-2013 07:32 AM
  22. techiez's Avatar
    Windows Phone doesn't have many issues. If it does, feel free to list them.

    There are missing features, but that is entirely different to an issue/bug.

    Microsoft have development cycles and add features periodically. Recently more frequently than Apple.

    Your post does sound like someone commenting on Windows Phone without having one.

    **MOD EDIT: Please refrain from calling someone a troll**
    Goto MS forums and you would see a lot of issues for which MS mods have accepted as known issues and say that they are working. 8-9 months down the line, I still see those issue today.
    09-17-2013 07:48 AM
  23. techiez's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone Blue (or whatever it will be called.... 8.5 maybe?) will be impressive on many accounts, I am expecting full skype integration at the very least.
    Thats what ppl hope from every WP update but sadly it doesnt match expection, hopefully MS doesnt say that blue was supposed to be a minor update and wait for WP9 next.
    09-17-2013 07:56 AM
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