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05-28-2013 06:26 AM
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  1. 12Danny123's Avatar
    ammarmalik2011 is I think I'm just guessing. I don't like him he's a very naughty boy.


    Also I'm kiwi. KIWIS RULE!!!!!!
    05-16-2013 05:40 AM
  2. titoyees's Avatar
    Wow. So, Google doesnt develop for Windows Phone, and now, the alternative is going to be close.

    I think than Google doesnt like the idea than now Windows Phone has the best Youtube app. Remember, they do their best on Android, then do a bad copy for iOS. And refuse others.

    Just interesting
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    05-16-2013 06:14 AM
  3. omniusovermind's Avatar
    How many times do people have to post the same response before a few of you others get it? The only reason you get Google Services for free is because they monetize them through ads. Youtube, Gmail, Search, maps, and many others are given away for free by Google because the T.O.S. you agree to when you sign up for them says they make money from the ads.

    Seriously? Are some of you basically saying Google should just offer all of that stuff for charity and give it away for free or else they're an evil company? That's basically what you're saying. Why don't you go order a $30 steak dinner and then express your outrage to the waiter for daring to bring a bill to your table for an encore?

    Just... wow. My lack of faith in any hope for humanity gets renewed each and every day.
    SMH

    Here's an idea! If you don't like the idea of paying for something...

    ... don't use it! What a novel concept!!
    Aquila, return_0 and Kevin Rush like this.
    05-16-2013 08:53 AM
  4. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    I never thought I would see a fan of internet ads.

    I wonder if all the people leaving comments on the Verge who are defending Google don't use adblock and actually click on ads?
    What does following rules have anything to with being a fan of internet ads?
    05-16-2013 09:02 AM
  5. MilkyTee's Avatar
    How many times do people have to post the same response before a few of you others get it? The only reason you get Google Services for free is because they monetize them through ads. Youtube, Gmail, Search, maps, and many others are given away for free by Google because the T.O.S. you agree to when you sign up for them says they make money from the ads.

    Seriously? Are some of you basically saying Google should just offer all of that stuff for charity and give it away for free or else they're an evil company? That's basically what you're saying. Why don't you go order a $30 steak dinner and then express your outrage to the waiter for daring to bring a bill to your table for an encore?

    Just... wow. My lack of faith in any hope for humanity gets renewed each and every day.
    SMH

    Here's an idea! If you don't like the idea of paying for something...

    ... don't use it! What a novel concept!!
    I think the real problem is that Google intentionally crippled WP by not releasing a dedicated app. They were asked, and they refused. They have an app on iOS, purely because the user base is too sizeable to ignore.

    Have you ever seen the Google homepage on a WP browser? Its ridiculously unoptimized and archaic. That's intentional. You cant access Google Maps either, and they claim that's due to restrictions of the OS, but that's been proven to be completely untrue. Theyre more than capable of issuing proper Google services for WP, but they don't.

    So MS have to come along and develop alternatives and then Google **** and moan.

    I'm beginning to dislike Google more and more these days.

    "Don't be evil" my ***.
    oryan_dunn, arnieman and Slenzen like this.
    05-16-2013 09:12 AM
  6. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I think the real problem is that Google intentionally crippled WP by not releasing a dedicated app. They were asked, and they refused. They have an app on iOS, purely because the user base is too sizeable to ignore.

    Have you ever seen the Google homepage on a WP browser? Its ridiculously unoptimized and archaic. That's intentional. You cant access Google Maps either, and they claim that's due to restrictions of the OS, but that's been proven to be completely untrue. Theyre more than capable of issuing proper Google services for WP, but they don't.

    So MS have to come along and develop alternatives and then Google **** and moan.

    I'm beginning to dislike Google more and more these days.

    "Don't be evil" my ***.
    Google is not beholden to automatically make their services available. It's called business. They're not a public service provider.

    Sent from my (fill in the blank) phone using (fill in the blank software)
    Aquila likes this.
    05-16-2013 01:53 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Google is not beholden to automatically make their services available. It's called business. They're not a public service provider.
    While true, they should just tell MS either yes or no. This is a one day affair Google has dragged out over a year. Not even MS pulled these types of petty stunts back in the day.
    05-16-2013 02:06 PM
  8. dba415's Avatar
    While true, they should just tell MS either yes or no. This is a one day affair Google has dragged out over a year. Not even MS pulled these types of petty stunts back in the day.
    Why does Google have an obligation to tell Microsoft their business plans? They are competitors, what hurts Microsoft is good for Google and vice-versa.
    05-16-2013 03:00 PM
  9. MilkyTee's Avatar
    Google is not beholden to automatically make their services available. It's called business. They're not a public service provider.

    Sent from my (fill in the blank) phone using (fill in the blank software)
    I understand that it's "just business", but it's a bit low.
    They don't seem to have a problem with the multitude of other YouTube apps on the WP store or the PLETHORA on Android and iOS that candidly allow you to DL videos for offline use and/or distribution/ mp3 rip.

    I totally get that the YouTube app infringes on a few of their policies and doesn't allow them to collect ad revenue, but that could be easily amended. Why not just quietly ask Microsoft to implement ads and remove the ability to DL videos instead of making a very public song and dance about it? Google is happy, so is MS and so are the WP userbase.

    No matter how you spin it, I'll still believe it to be a petty move by a multi-billion dollar company. Then again Ms are no better with their particularly gleeful statement on the matter following Google's request. I wonder how that cease and desist letter got leaked, on the day of Google's I/O?

    At the end of the day, the consumers lose out as two bloated behemoths duke it out. Again.
    Last edited by MilkyTee; 05-16-2013 at 03:30 PM. Reason: nm
    Daniel Ratcliffe and Dazzi like this.
    05-16-2013 03:25 PM
  10. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I understand that it's "just business", but it's a bit low.
    They don't seem to have a problem with the multitude of other YouTube apps on the WP store or the PLETHORA on Android and iOS that candidly allow you to DL videos for offline use and/or distribution/ mp3 rip.

    I totally get that the YouTube app infringes on a few of their policies and doesn't allow them to collect ad revenue, but that could be easily amended. Why not just quietly ask Microsoft to implement ads and remove the ability to DL videos instead of making a very public song and dance about it? Google is happy, so is MS and so are the WP userbase.

    No matter how you spin it, I'll still believe it to be a petty move by a multi-billion dollar company. Then again Ms are no better with their particularly gleeful statement on the matter following Google's request. I wonder how that cease and desist letter got leaked, on the day of Google's I/O?

    At the end of the day, the consumers lose out as two bloated behemoths duke it out. Again.
    Perhaps bit many of the people expressing these sentiments would do well to engage in a memory exercise back to MS in the 90's. There's no doubt whatsoever that if MS were not currently knocked off of their previously enjoyed pedestal they'd be doing the exact same thing. Let me know when I can install it on a z10.
    If you think for one minute ms would put Office on android or iOS if either were at 3% market share you're kidding yourselves
    Sent from my (fill in the blank) phone using (fill in the blank software)
    05-16-2013 03:32 PM
  11. MilkyTee's Avatar
    Perhaps bit many of the people expressing these sentiments would do well to engage in a memory exercise back to MS in the 90's. There's no doubt whatsoever that if MS were not currently knocked off of their previously enjoyed pedestal they'd be doing the exact same thing. Let me know when I can install it on a z10.
    If you think for one minute ms would put Office on android or iOS if either were at 3% market share you're kidding yourselves
    Sent from my (fill in the blank) phone using (fill in the blank software)
    Totally agreed there, don't think for one second I believe MS to be some sort of white Knight.
    But the difference between your analogy and Google's "free" services is that Office is a paid-for-product and/or something MS could use as leverage to draw consumers to their platform. Thing is, there's thousands of viable alternatives that exist, not really the case for YouTube, which is the go-to source for videos, bar none. Google could still make their buck off of MS's platform from ad revenue, though MS wouldn't exactly make a mint from Office, especially if they were charging regular Office prices in the midst of all the other cheaper or free doc editors present on Droid and iOS.

    (Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that MS were strongly considering bringing Ofiice to other OSes)

    Back to the other scenario; if MS had a shot at hurting the competition, they'd capitalize on that immediately, I am not disputing that. It's just they're lagging behind and they're the underdog, and I'm all for a competitive and varied industry. The more choice the better, it keeps vendors on their toes. Anything that could bring WP closer to striking a balance between the platforms is what I'm looking for. Clearly, it's in Google's best interests to do the opposite, but at least allow your opposing number to hack together some sort of alternative if you blatantly refuse to do so. That's anti-consumer, something both Google and MS have had many brushes with.
    05-16-2013 04:05 PM
  12. squire777's Avatar
    How many times do people have to post the same response before a few of you others get it? The only reason you get Google Services for free is because they monetize them through ads. Youtube, Gmail, Search, maps, and many others are given away for free by Google because the T.O.S. you agree to when you sign up for them says they make money from the ads.

    Seriously? Are some of you basically saying Google should just offer all of that stuff for charity and give it away for free or else they're an evil company? That's basically what you're saying. Why don't you go order a $30 steak dinner and then express your outrage to the waiter for daring to bring a bill to your table for an encore?

    Just... wow. My lack of faith in any hope for humanity gets renewed each and every day.
    SMH

    Here's an idea! If you don't like the idea of paying for something...

    ... don't use it! What a novel concept!!
    I sure as hell hope you don't have any ad blockers on your computer otherwise you would be a total hypocrite. I'm sure those webmasters who place ads on their sites would like some revenue as well.

    I'm sure with their $900 shares they must be taking a big hit from losing some ad revenue.
    05-16-2013 04:16 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    Why does Google have an obligation to tell Microsoft their business plans?.
    They don't. Have no idea why you got that from my post.
    05-16-2013 05:03 PM
  14. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Totally agreed there, don't think for one second I believe MS to be some sort of white Knight.
    But the difference between your analogy and Google's "free" services is that Office is a paid-for-product and/or something MS could use as leverage to draw consumers to their platform. Thing is, there's thousands of viable alternatives that exist, not really the case for YouTube, which is the go-to source for videos, bar none. Google could still make their buck off of MS's platform from ad revenue, though MS wouldn't exactly make a mint from Office, especially if they were charging regular Office prices in the midst of all the other cheaper or free doc editors present on Droid and iOS.

    (Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that MS were strongly considering bringing Ofiice to other OSes)

    Back to the other scenario; if MS had a shot at hurting the competition, they'd capitalize on that immediately, I am not disputing that. It's just they're lagging behind and they're the underdog, and I'm all for a competitive and varied industry. The more choice the better, it keeps vendors on their toes. Anything that could bring WP closer to striking a balance between the platforms is what I'm looking for. Clearly, it's in Google's best interests to do the opposite, but at least allow your opposing number to hack together some sort of alternative if you blatantly refuse to do so. That's anti-consumer, something both Google and MS have had many brushes with.
    They're not free though. They're monetized through ads, which is a different way of collecting money from users but still collecting money nonetheless.

    I sure as hell hope you don't have any ad blockers on your computer otherwise you would be a total hypocrite. I'm sure those webmasters who place ads on their sites would like some revenue as well.
    I could easily counter that statement with "I sure hope 100% of these people complaining have never used an unlicensed version of Windows or Office or any software for that matter". I think we can both agree on the odds of that being true.

    bazinga!

    I'll tell you what: How about if I block ads AND use unlicensed software? Do they cancel each other out, making me fair and neutral again? lol j/k

    The above latter is meant as a joke. I have to now add these disclaimers to my posts every time I'm kidding because of an ongoing complaint filed with the MN administration.
    05-16-2013 05:07 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    If you think for one minute ms would put Office on android or iOS if either were at 3% market share you're kidding yourselves
    Completely invalid comparison. MS isn't asking Google to put anything on WP. MS is not asking Google for a second of their engineering staffs time or any other kind of notable effort, whereas porting Office to another platform represents an enormously expensive undertaking.

    This is purely a legal matter. Ending it involves nothing more than signing a standardized legal agreement and Google mailing MS a pre-existing document on how to use some pre-existing YouTube APIs.

    I'd have been left with more respect for Google if they had just denied MS those rights on day one and been done with the matter. This year-long back and forth just seems petty.
    05-16-2013 05:20 PM
  16. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Completely invalid comparison. MS isn't asking Google to put anything on WP. MS is not asking Google for a second of their engineering staffs time or any other kind of notable effort, whereas porting Office to another platform represents an enormously expensive undertaking.
    You're right, they just flagrantly broke Google's T.O.S. but that's ok right?
    This year-long back and forth just seems petty.
    I'm not claiming it isn't somewhat petty but the law is clear and MS broke it, end of story. If I'm wrong, then I see no reason why MS would back down and comply with Google's complaint. They have stated they will comply and are awaiting the API's from Google. If Google chooses not to give them, we both know MS is going to be embarrassed in front of the world when Google shuts off youtube access to WP devices and MS are powerless to stop them.

    I think MS made a big tactical error in picking a fight they can't win because it's going to be a widely publicized "showdown" and they're going to lose if Google decides to pick up the gauntlet rather than cooperate.
    05-16-2013 05:42 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    You're right, they just flagrantly broke Google's T.O.S. but that's ok right?
    Of course not, although how flagrantly that occurred is debatable. I just wanted to point out the flawed analogy.

    Fact is none of us really know how this went down. We don't know if MS disregarded existing agreements or if MS was unable to comply with them due to Google not providing the required documentation. Based on the press releases, each of us can choose whatever best fits our world view.

    The only thing that is clear, which we also both agree on, is that Google is engaged in some intentional and petty feet dragging.

    IMHO Google should just deny MS the rights and be done with it. I wouldn't like it, but it would be a lot more respectable.
    05-16-2013 06:52 PM
  18. dba415's Avatar
    They don't. Have no idea why you got that from my post.
    you said Google should just tell Microsoft yes or no. I got it from your post because you wrote it. Unless you just write stuff without understanding what you are saying.
    05-16-2013 09:33 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    What would stop Microsoft from making an app that doesn't break the TOS? The API's are publicly available. Expecting Google to waste their resources making the app is silly, especially when everything MS needs to make their own is available; this is evidenced by the fact that MS made their own; they just modified it to heavily violate the TOS. This isn't an either or thing; it's not Google has to make it or you can't have it... MS can make it and comply with the agreement, and then you're good. Is it not also available at YouTube It's funny, that Microsoft wants to use it's own route to make apps and web access via browsers and ignore industry trends, then complain that things made in newer tech do not function 100% correctly when going backwards.

    Could Google go out of their way to help Microsoft? Absolutely, and I wish that they would. The more competition there is the better for innovation for all of us; and since Google doesn't make money from selling Android, the more they can get their services on other platforms, the better! But that agreement is a two way street and with neither company willing to budge, it seems like it's going to be a consumer choice: Enjoy Windows phones with very limited access to the web as it advances, or choose another phone and wait for Microsoft to evolve.
    05-17-2013 01:54 AM
  20. Reflexx's Avatar
    Aren't the API's "available"... but not necessarily REALLY available?

    As I understand it, to hook into certain services, companies are supposed to be given permission from Google.

    MS requests permission to do this long long ago. Then waited... and waited... and waited.

    We were stuck with an app that just went to the Youtube website. And every once in a while, even that would stop working because the website would mysteriously refuse to function unless the user switched to Desktop mode or vice versa.

    Eventually I guess MS got tired of waiting for Google to give them permission and just made the app, knowing that it would prompt a response from Google. The lack of ads playing is due to not having permission to use certain APIs.

    Basically, MS can't make an app with ads because it wasn't given permission to use the APIs. But if they make an app without ads they violate the TOS for Google.

    This was pretty obviously Microsoft's attempt to get Google's attention. To have them either say, "Yes, you can use our APIs." or "No. You can't."

    If it's a "yes" answer, then hooray!

    If it's a "no" answer, Google might be opening themselves up to an antitrust lawsuit.

    Google hoped to avoid that by just ignoring MS's requests. But it will be hard to play ignorant now that they've shown they are paying attention. Instead, ignoring MS now will look like a company with monopoly power in internet video leveraging that power to other areas, like mobile app markets.
    05-17-2013 02:27 AM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    you said Google should just tell Microsoft yes or no. I got it from your post because you wrote it. Unless you just write stuff without understanding what you are saying.
    Yes, MS has the rights to use all YouTube APIs, or no, they do not. I still have no idea why you think that has anything to do with revealing business plans.
    05-17-2013 05:55 AM
  22. boxa72's Avatar
    Who gives a flying who's right n who's wrong! At tha end of the day its US (the consumer), on both sides, that lose out because 2 multi-nationals wanna carry on like spoiled children. I only bought an 820 bcoz its a Nokia, as that's tha only OEM whose products interest me. If Microsoft lost Windows Phone tomorrow they'd b fine but Nokia wouldn't!! Wot, if anything has Nokia ever done to Google?? With all tha bull**** between MS n Google, only Nokia gets hurt!
    05-17-2013 06:19 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    What would stop Microsoft from making an app that doesn't break the TOS? The API's are publicly available. Expecting Google to waste their resources making the app is silly, especially when everything MS needs to make their own is available...
    Firstly, at this point, absolutely nobody is expecting Google to make a YouTube app for WP. Nobody.

    Secondly, your take on the API issue is too one sided. In their press release MS explicitly stated that not everything they needed was available to them. MS can't outright lie in a press release (instant court case), so there is something to that, which you are ignoring entirely.

    As always, and as with any press release, they are far to vague to actually clarify anything. However, there most certainly are many many ways in which Google could make it hard or even impossible for MS to comply with their T&C's, both technical and legal.

    Based on Google's behavior this last year, it is entirely reasonable to assume that this is just another one of their premeditated delay tactics, but just as with MS, we don't really know.

    ...this is evidenced by the fact that MS made their own; they just modified it to heavily violate the TOS.
    I don't understand that. All MS has (or doesn't have) is access to APIs. APIs can't be modified! Whatever happened, MS didn't modify anything.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-17-2013 at 08:34 AM.
    05-17-2013 06:57 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    Who gives a flying who's right n who's wrong! At tha end of the day its US (the consumer), on both sides, that lose out because 2 multi-nationals wanna carry on like spoiled children. I only bought an 820 bcoz its a Nokia, as that's tha only OEM whose products interest me. If Microsoft lost Windows Phone tomorrow they'd b fine but Nokia wouldn't!! Wot, if anything has Nokia ever done to Google?? With all tha bull**** between MS n Google, only Nokia gets hurt!
    True, but ultimately we live in a competitive world.

    Neither Google nor MS are acting like spoiled children. They are both competing for smartphone market share, and it is a fact that for every five WP users there are four fewer Android users. It is Google's job to stomp out WP's growth trend as soon as possible, and that is what they are attempting, without being too obvious about it.

    I don't think this is really about right or wrong. At least for me, it is about understanding what each company is trying to achieve and how they go about it. When it comes to smartphones and the web, Google has much more power than MS. Google will bring more power to bare as WP gains market share. That comes accross as bully'ish, but MS would do the same if their roles were reversed.

    Nokia chose sides, and this is one of the consequences.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-17-2013 at 07:42 AM.
    05-17-2013 07:32 AM
  25. freestaterocker's Avatar
    The app is already broken. I'm guessing google changed the APIs.
    05-17-2013 08:10 AM
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