06-08-2013 09:35 PM
37 12
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  1. fatpigeon's Avatar
    You have out-of-the-box functionality: XBL (which is admittedly barebones), Office Mobile (also barebones), XBOX Music + Video (still quite lacking) and Bing Search (nothing outside the US)

    Half-baked, but can still improve.
    I don't know, maybe this is part of the problem making Microsoft seemingly relax.... that's (sorry) some serious apologist talk there.


    And, let's not forget about hardware. We have single-core phones running as smoothly as quad-core phones. Well, when apps use it, it's a different story, but WP can run on low-end hardware and deliver a high-end experience.
    I'd agree with that for emerging markets, but as far as mainstream tech awareness and people getting excited about stuff is concerned, I'd have to say "So? Who cares?".

    When you intro a new phone, you want the best specs to hawk around. Both Apple and Samsung / HTC / other Android makers etc all have their interpretations of 'best' but they do it, year after year. What you don't want to do is to intro everyone else's phone from 18 months ago saying "See this AWESOME camera?".

    If you try and tread your own way in that race, then the story gets a whole lot more nuanced and your average consumer isn't equipped to make the choice. You could argue "Well no, it's not for average consumers, it's for leets who can appreciate educated design" but no manufacturer can afford that kind of talk any longer - at least no one as major as Microsoft, though maybe someone like Jolla can survice on that premise. Add to that the 'look at me, I'm a tech jouirnalist' blogosphere bias against Microsoft and you just get the impression they're just making life extra hard for themselves.

    Yes we need the cameras we've been getting on flagship Lumias. But we need 1080p on a flagship WP8 and in a much slimmer package than on any WP to date yesterday. We need quad-cores (but with some fancy power saving tech that can be touted too) yesterday. We need way more compelling dedicated accessories yesterday. We need the mountain of half-baked issues issues in WP8 fixed yesterday. etc etc.
    RahulRana likes this.
    06-07-2013 05:43 AM
  2. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    I don't know, maybe this is part of the problem making Microsoft seemingly relax.... that's (sorry) some serious apologist talk there.
    To be honest, I was pressed for time, and wasn't able to really check my post afterwards. If this makes me sound like an apologist, I humbly apologize. It appears I've left out a certain statement: They better make it better (especially XBOX Music)
    I'd agree with that for emerging markets, but as far as mainstream tech awareness and people getting excited about stuff is concerned, I'd have to say "So? Who cares?".

    When you intro a new phone, you want the best specs to hawk around. Both Apple and Samsung / HTC / other Android makers etc all have their interpretations of 'best' but they do it, year after year. What you don't want to do is to intro everyone else's phone from 18 months ago saying "See this AWESOME camera?".

    If you try and tread your own way in that race, then the story gets a whole lot more nuanced and your average consumer isn't equipped to make the choice. You could argue "Well no, it's not for average consumers, it's for leets who can appreciate educated design" but no manufacturer can afford that kind of talk any longer - at least no one as major as Microsoft, though maybe someone like Jolla can survice on that premise. Add to that the 'look at me, I'm a tech jouirnalist' blogosphere bias against Microsoft and you just get the impression they're just making life extra hard for themselves.

    Yes we need the cameras we've been getting on flagship Lumias. But we need 1080p on a flagship WP8 and in a much slimmer package than on any WP to date yesterday. We need quad-cores (but with some fancy power saving tech that can be touted too) yesterday. We need way more compelling dedicated accessories yesterday. We need the mountain of half-baked issues issues in WP8 fixed yesterday. etc etc.
    You know, I was actually looking for a place to drop this load off my head, and it seems I've found the perfect place.

    I'm thinking Microsoft was taking an Apple-like approach, with low-end devices.

    "We're not aiming for the most advanced phones ever (unless Intel makes a sufficiently powerful Atom processor, we'd reconsider ;), we're aiming for the best user experiences. If we can't do that, we may as well not exist."

    I just want to say it's not about the specs, it's about the user experience. But, some people (not everyone, of course.) appear to not understand that.

    Here. Microsoft fixing all those issues...is a part of the user experiences. More common updates that add substance will reassure the common user.
    06-07-2013 06:40 AM
  3. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Yes we need the cameras we've been getting on flagship Lumias. But we need 1080p on a flagship WP8 and in a much slimmer package than on any WP to date yesterday. We need quad-cores (but with some fancy power saving tech that can be touted too) yesterday. We need way more compelling dedicated accessories yesterday. We need the mountain of half-baked issues issues in WP8 fixed yesterday. etc etc.
    No, we need camera quality that can make a 100'000'000 DSLR look tacky in camera quality since yesterday, we need 64 core processors each core clocked in at 100GHz since yesterday, we need 0.00000001mm slim phones since yesterday, we need 100 million year battery life since yesterday, we need a bug free OS since yesterday, we need 100'000'000'000'000'000 apps since yesterday, we need phones that stay cool even when you throw all those processors into overdrive since yesterday, we need WP9999999999 since yesterday and we need 100000000000000000000000M PPI screens since yesterday. All for 1p no contract.
    RahulRana likes this.
    06-07-2013 06:46 AM
  4. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    No, we need camera quality that can make a 100'000'000 DSLR look tacky in camera quality since yesterday, we need 64 core processors each core clocked in at 100GHz since yesterday, we need 0.00000001mm slim phones since yesterday, we need 100 million year battery life since yesterday, we need a bug free OS since yesterday, we need 100'000'000'000'000'000 apps since yesterday, we need phones that stay cool even when you throw all those processors into overdrive since yesterday, we need WP9999999999 since yesterday and we need 100000000000000000000000M PPI screens since yesterday. All for 1p no contract.
    Well, he didn't mean something like that.

    Let's take examples.
    The N95.
    The N97.
    The N8.
    The 808.

    Flagships. Underpowered flagships. Oftentimes shipped half-baked.
    Look what happened to Symbian as a result. (And, no, this isn't Symbian's fault - it's the fault of the management.)

    And, a running joke among Nokia fans is that Windows Phone was picked because of the "endless waiting game"

    S60 5th has a horrible UI? Wait for S^3!
    S^3 not quite enough? Wait for S^4/Anna!
    Anna not adequate in dealing with apps for S^3? Wait for Belle!

    Like this:

    Wait for Mango!
    Wait for Tango!
    Wait for Apollo!

    And, no, we need indestructible phones ;)
    fatpigeon and RahulRana like this.
    06-07-2013 07:02 AM
  5. Oliver Newell's Avatar
    XBOX One
    Windows 8
    Windows phone 8

    , and all other new services and products from Microsoft WILL succeed. Microsoft wont stop until they do. They have the power, money and know-how to make it happen, and it seems to be paying off. It was only less than a year ago everyone thought windows phone was going to be one of microsofts biggest flops, it looks like it could turn out to be one of their best creations ever because windows phone design of minimalism, metro live tiles, smooth solid OS has paid off on the hardware and software design of microsofts other products, including windows 8, just look at the XBOX One and surface tablet. They represent the software they run. Clean, sophisticated, not busy, less is more philosophy. Even the new Microsoft logo is more squared and cleaner than it was and their advertising is the same. Straight to the point and professional. I love all of it.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    06-07-2013 07:43 AM
  6. johninsj's Avatar
    Yep, that is an excellent example of limited market share (falling rapidly to Android, after a multi-year head start. Hmmm sounds a bit like Windows CE)
    06-07-2013 07:47 AM
  7. ag1986's Avatar
    I know there is nothing that IOS, Android or BB can offer that is worth giving up what WP does better. That said if Microsoft will silence the critics it will help WP not only turn a corned but will propel WP way down the road.
    Slight correction there, Dave: "I feel...".

    There are still things that Android does that make it more valuable than WP. I admit that this is a matter of opinion, but so is yours and that should be pointed out. I do like the optics and the concept of the People Hub, but I want better file format support, especially MKV (AVI container) file support, a notification center (no the live tiles are not sufficient), more granular volume... basically, all the things that people have been wanting of WP ever since it was launched, and a way to adjust font sizes and control information density on each tile. I don't care what colour the phone is, I just want it to display more than 1-2 lines of text per live tile.

    If these are addressed, it'd be a no-brainer move. I'm one of those people who demand functionality over form, though, and that may not be true of everyone.
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    06-07-2013 08:22 AM
  8. fatpigeon's Avatar
    No, we need camera quality that can make a 100'000'000 DSLR look tacky in camera quality since yesterday, we need 64 core processors each core clocked in at 100GHz since yesterday, we need 0.00000001mm slim phones since yesterday, we need 100 million year battery life since yesterday, we need a bug free OS since yesterday, we need 100'000'000'000'000'000 apps since yesterday, we need phones that stay cool even when you throw all those processors into overdrive since yesterday, we need WP9999999999 since yesterday and we need 100000000000000000000000M PPI screens since yesterday. All for 1p no contract.
    In reading this, by a moderator no less, I'm trying to invest this with some degree of genuine humour or stylish irony...

    ... but I can't see it.

    So I shall just make fart noises in your direction by way of a reposte :p
    Daniel Ratcliffe likes this.
    06-07-2013 04:05 PM
  9. fatpigeon's Avatar
    "We're not aiming for the most advanced phones ever (unless Intel makes a sufficiently powerful Atom processor, we'd reconsider ;), we're aiming for the best user experiences. If we can't do that, we may as well not exist."

    I just want to say it's not about the specs, it's about the user experience. But, some people (not everyone, of course.) appear to not understand that.
    The problem with that argument is that Apple learned since Jobs came back that it has to come through in the spec wars as well as 'it's all about the user'. You need both, because horsepower and spec races are often what drives further development. A contemporary iPhone may not for example openly tout it's prowess, but it's definitely up there in all respects (bar antenna performance, which is where Nokia still appears to have a definitive advantage. But then they need it. An Apple user will blame the carrier, dog, everyone else but Apple for a crap-radio'd phone. A sensible Nokia user would correctly place the blame...).
    06-07-2013 04:15 PM
  10. etphoto's Avatar
    No, we need camera quality that can make a 100'000'000 DSLR look tacky in camera quality since yesterday, we need 64 core processors each core clocked in at 100GHz since yesterday, we need 0.00000001mm slim phones since yesterday, we need 100 million year battery life since yesterday, we need a bug free OS since yesterday, we need 100'000'000'000'000'000 apps since yesterday, we need phones that stay cool even when you throw all those processors into overdrive since yesterday, we need WP9999999999 since yesterday and we need 100000000000000000000000M PPI screens since yesterday. All for 1p no contract.
    And you'll still have people ********. Especially the app junkies. "there ain't enough apps. Apple has an app that helps me pick out carpet for my garage and Windows don't". . . And so on.
    06-07-2013 04:29 PM
  11. fatpigeon's Avatar
    And you'll still have people ********. Especially the app junkies. "there ain't enough apps. Apple has an app that helps me pick out carpet for my garage and Windows don't". . . And so on.
    Damn right they ********.

    We don't have this for example, and we're probably never getting it:
    Traktor : Dj Software : Traktor Dj | Products

    And it's repeated in countless other markets. We only get the low hanging fruit or something the MS has specifically paid for. Let's face it, Instagram is about as low hanging as it gets app-wise and we're still in 'will they, won't they' phase. The number of the genuinely interesting niche apps, or hardware-combined apps ported from the iPhone? Zero. The number of those types of apps that start life in WP? Also Zero.

    That specific problem doesn't matter to me since there's a limited amount to what I'd like to do on my phone and I can afford to buy anything else to do something better (notebook or tablet), so I just use my phone as essentially an organisation tool. I very rarely play games, if ever and even if I do I give up quickly because 1. I'm used to proper PC gaming so such a small screen becomes frustrating quickly for anything beyond the simplest game 2. I have no idea what I'm doing anyway. But it does matter to an increasing number of people who do more and more on their smartphones because they're either too dumb to use it on their notebooks properly, or their hipster limbs have become so atrophied that they keel over when they hold a >2lb device.

    MS needs to up not just the developer wooing ante, but also the designer wooing ante. There's a false premise among the rabid 'anything but Microsoft' designer posse that Microsoft's attitude to flat design only makes it easier for bad designers to create reasonably good looking apps, which turns out to all look the same. It's true to an extent, but the best examples of flat design under WP easily transcends that and are among the best looking mobile apps every built. They may even have to crank out an OS X native version of their dev tools to make this happen since Mac-hugging designers won't switch for the sake of dev, and their Boot Camp partitions are probably ridden with viruses anyway since they're too dumb to be unleashed on Windows.
    Last edited by fatpigeon; 06-08-2013 at 10:30 AM.
    06-08-2013 10:19 AM
  12. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    And you'll still have people ********. Especially the app junkies. "there ain't enough apps. Apple has an app that helps me pick out carpet for my garage and Windows don't". . . And so on.
    So we also need every app available on other platforms (including legacy windows programs) and any app going to be made within the next 1'000'000'000'000'000'000'000'000 years since yesterday. But even that won't help us because of the Microsoft hatred that flows in the eyes of the general consumer.
    06-08-2013 09:35 PM
37 12

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