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08-24-2013 08:26 PM
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  1. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Their even trying to argue against British privacy laws - Google argues UK privacy laws do not apply to it - Telegraph
    What? No corporation can transcend national and international laws.

    Seriously, this doesn't make any sense anymore.
    08-19-2013 05:00 AM
  2. replay0's Avatar
    I use Google, but only as a necessity for occasional gmail use, and primarily Youtube. I do prefer Vimeo, but I don't see that or any other video service coming up in mass popularity on Youtube's level for years, if that's even possible. It would take a big screwup on Google or Youtube's part in order for another video service to become popular, sadly. I use Outlook for email & calendar, Bing Maps, Bing Search, SkyDrive, and Office Products. I am the only anti-Google, anti-Apple person among my friends and co-workers. Maybe someday they'll realize having one monopoly such as Google having all their data and search queries is a very bad thing.
    08-19-2013 05:16 AM
  3. Nakazul's Avatar
    If other people care or not is irrelevant. I could even be the only person taking a stance about Google. But at least I made a choice for my self. One have the freedom to choose, and its each for its own. I made the choice to block and not use any Google products. Microsoft may not be much better, but Google is in the first line leading privacy issues. I made a choice and I'm happy I at least gave it a thought. YouTube is really hard to live without though.
    08-19-2013 05:40 AM
  4. theefman's Avatar
    Short and sweet read http://blogs.computerworld.com/windo...-app-word-fear.

    And for those claiming you can't leave google services because they are the best, I can personally say there is no google service that meets that criteria for me and as such do not use any google service apart from being forced to view videos on youtube and none of my online experiences and anything less than first rate with the Microsoft services I choose to use.
    08-19-2013 05:48 AM
  5. Gurggles's Avatar
    This is the silliest thread I have ever seen. Google will not miss WP users. They sell plenty of androids to hook you on their services.

    Yes Google is being childish, but even Apple was quick to ask for google maps again for iOS 6. Google Maps is a heck of a lot more accurate than what Nokia is putting out. I have a 50% chance of going to the wrong location when using Here Maps.

    Trying to punish Google is silly, WP needs their support because most people use them. Its that simple.
    08-19-2013 06:25 AM
  6. DJRedLine's Avatar
    This is the silliest thread I have ever seen. Google will not miss WP users. They sell plenty of androids to hook you on their services.

    Yes Google is being childish, but even Apple was quick to ask for google maps again for iOS 6. Google Maps is a heck of a lot more accurate than what Nokia is putting out. I have a 50% chance of going to the wrong location when using Here Maps.

    Trying to punish Google is silly, WP needs their support because most people use them. Its that simple.
    Google will lose marketshare when Samsung move to the Tizen OS
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    08-19-2013 06:42 AM
  7. Gurggles's Avatar
    We should not delude ourselves, WP is still very small in the global scene and cannot put a big hurt on Google as it is now. Its still the new kid on the block. We need Google to support WP because new users (read: anyone not obsessed with tech) are still dependent on them and will not make a full switch cold turkey to outlook and other services. Google+ has barely hurt other social media because it does not offer features most users need.

    Samsung using Tizen would shake up the mobile industry so much that we should worry about them making the move. Sammy has a lot of power now, but they would grow stronger by having full control over there platform. And most consumers wouldn't know the change from Android to Tizen occurred because it looks like Touch Wiz.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    08-19-2013 08:05 AM
  8. DJRedLine's Avatar
    Gurggles I do agree with what you say.
    At present I do think we will have to wait and see if MS and Google can sort this issue out between themselves. No matter how much we scream and shout i don't think we will be heard.

    If neither MS or Google can provide us with an official Youtube app then there are some excellent 3rd party alternatives available.
    Gurggles likes this.
    08-19-2013 08:17 AM
  9. stmav's Avatar
    Google services are very easy to ignore. Just like certain posters.
    psudotechzealot likes this.
    08-19-2013 08:18 AM
  10. squire777's Avatar
    Short and sweet read Why is Google blocking Windows Phone's YouTube app? In a word, fear | Computerworld Blogs.

    And for those claiming you can't leave google services because they are the best, I can personally say there is no google service that meets that criteria for me and as such do not use any google service apart from being forced to view videos on youtube and none of my online experiences and anything less than first rate with the Microsoft services I choose to use.
    I agree with the author. Google seems to have this certain insecurity in regards to MS and Apple and it does appear that they will try every underhand tactic to keep their marketshare.
    08-19-2013 11:09 AM
  11. ag1986's Avatar
    Sorry, but people just don't get the issues here. I don't see any way how Google could have NOT banned the WP8 app in its current form.

    Sequence of events as I understand it:

    1. MS launches Youtube app breaking EVERY part of the Youtube TOS (no ads, allows download). Google sues and MS folds.

    2. MS and Google collaborate on new app. MS' IE on WP8 is too broken to support HTML5 inline video (link:Internet Explorer 10 brings HTML5 to Windows Phone 8 in a big way), see

    There are some minor differences between Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 8 and Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone that you need to be aware of. Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone does not support the following:

    Inline video

    This means that IE on WP8 opens video in its native media player rather than the browser. This is a problem because Google tracks how long each ad is watched (it's called Trueview video ads) and this cannot be done if WP8 plays natively rather than the browser. Thus they cannot track and report metrics to their advertisers and content publishers accurately. IF MS had bothered to implement a proper HTML5 spec, one that allowed video playback in Webview, there would be no problem. This is hinted at wherein David Howard says "YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming".

    Yes, because your browser's HTML5 implementation is screwed up!

    Note that EVERY third-party client for YT uses HTML5. None have decompiled and reverse-engineered private APIs as MS did.

    Finally. MS is whining that YT for Android and iOS don't have to use HTML5. Yes. What part of THIRD PARTY is hard to understand? Google does not have to abide by those conditions because they wrote the conditions. Tough cookies. Go fix IE10 first, then whine. After all that they unilaterally decided to release an app with YT branding, without Google's approval? What did they expect?

    edit:

    MS is not the only one that faced blockage over HTML5. Google blocked the app on Roku for the same reason: A9 Chip Inside The Roku 3 May Finally Allow For An Official YouTube Channel - Dan Rayburn - StreamingMediaBlog.com
    FinancialP likes this.
    08-19-2013 12:24 PM
  12. mgkeath's Avatar
    Sorry, but people just don't get the issues here. I don't see any way how Google could have NOT banned the WP8 app in its current form.

    Sequence of events as I understand it:

    1. MS launches Youtube app breaking EVERY part of the Youtube TOS (no ads, allows download). Google sues and MS folds.

    2. MS and Google collaborate on new app. MS' IE on WP8 is too broken to support HTML5 inline video (link:Internet Explorer 10 brings HTML5 to Windows Phone 8 in a big way), see

    There are some minor differences between Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 8 and Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone that you need to be aware of. Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone does not support the following:

    Inline video

    This means that IE on WP8 opens video in its native media player rather than the browser. This is a problem because Google tracks how long each ad is watched (it's called Trueview video ads) and this cannot be done if WP8 plays natively rather than the browser. Thus they cannot track and report metrics to their advertisers and content publishers accurately. IF MS had bothered to implement a proper HTML5 spec, one that allowed video playback in Webview, there would be no problem. This is hinted at wherein David Howard says "YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming".

    Yes, because your browser's HTML5 implementation is screwed up!

    Note that EVERY third-party client for YT uses HTML5. None have decompiled and reverse-engineered private APIs as MS did.

    Finally. MS is whining that YT for Android and iOS don't have to use HTML5. Yes. What part of THIRD PARTY is hard to understand? Google does not have to abide by those conditions because they wrote the conditions. Tough cookies. Go fix IE10 first, then whine. After all that they unilaterally decided to release an app with YT branding, without Google's approval? What did they expect?

    edit:

    MS is not the only one that faced blockage over HTML5. Google blocked the app on Roku for the same reason: A9 Chip Inside The Roku 3 May Finally Allow For An Official YouTube Channel - Dan Rayburn - StreamingMediaBlog.com
    Your points are certainly valid, however I see an easy path that Google could have taken. When they agreed to collaborate on an app, knowing full well what the limitations would be on the WP platform, they could have gone in with good faith, and actually gave WP users an option that they themselves refused to develop. It's all fine and good to say, we don't see the benefit in developing for the platform at this point in time, but MS was willing to commit the resources to do so. Why make it impossible when you agreed to work with them?

    Google is, in no way, obligated to make/allow an app to be available, but that doesn't mean that they have to present roadblocks either. No one forced them to agree to collaborate, so why do so in a way that seems rather shady.
    08-19-2013 12:42 PM
  13. ag1986's Avatar
    Your points are certainly valid, however I see an easy path that Google could have taken. When they agreed to collaborate on an app, knowing full well what the limitations would be on the WP platform, they could have gone in with good faith, and actually gave WP users an option that they themselves refused to develop. It's all fine and good to say, we don't see the benefit in developing for the platform at this point in time, but MS was willing to commit the resources to do so. Why make it impossible when you agreed to work with them?

    Google is, in no way, obligated to make/allow an app to be available, but that doesn't mean that they have to present roadblocks either. No one forced them to agree to collaborate, so why do so in a way that seems rather shady.
    That's true as well - maybe after investigation Google simply found that IE10 on WP was just too inflexible to work? That or Google's engineers were not aware of the WP limitations before they went in? In all fairness, that does seem likely. In this case, what would you say that Google could do? They have rigid guidelines that are probably there for legal reasons - Sony BMG, Paramount etc could say we'll only allow our stuff on YT if you agree to make all apps able to track viewing correctly and give us our cut of the ad money as well.

    So Google could have released data to MS about private APIs and metadata - that would again be a big IF because that kind of data is valuable. I mean, try asking MS for the WP source code. That also implies that everytime they decided to change those private APIs, they'd have to work with MS to change the WP app as well - and that doesn't seem like a path they want to go down.

    My core point is that IF Microsoft had implemented HTML5 completely, there would not have been a leg for Google to stand on. Or if they had gone into a red-alert mode to update IE10 on WP to fix this, they probably could have gotten it done. Pull the Bing devs out for a month, have them all work on it, not like Bing is doing anything useful for them anyway. A delay there wouldn't hurt them.
    08-19-2013 01:03 PM
  14. mgkeath's Avatar
    That's true as well - maybe after investigation Google simply found that IE10 on WP was just too inflexible to work? That or Google's engineers were not aware of the WP limitations before they went in? In all fairness, that does seem likely. In this case, what would you say that Google could do? They have rigid guidelines that are probably there for legal reasons - Sony BMG, Paramount etc could say we'll only allow our stuff on YT if you agree to make all apps able to track viewing correctly and give us our cut of the ad money as well.

    So Google could have released data to MS about private APIs and metadata - that would again be a big IF because that kind of data is valuable. I mean, try asking MS for the WP source code. That also implies that everytime they decided to change those private APIs, they'd have to work with MS to change the WP app as well - and that doesn't seem like a path they want to go down.

    My core point is that IF Microsoft had implemented HTML5 completely, there would not have been a leg for Google to stand on. Or if they had gone into a red-alert mode to update IE10 on WP to fix this, they probably could have gotten it done. Pull the Bing devs out for a month, have them all work on it, not like Bing is doing anything useful for them anyway. A delay there wouldn't hurt them.
    Once again, very valid points.

    Of course, Google could solve this pretty easily by developing their own app for the platform. If a collaboration still didn't yield the result intended, maybe it's time for them to jump on board and put these issues to rest. However, as you mentioned, MSFT could also step up and do some work on their shortcomings.
    08-19-2013 01:19 PM
  15. thomas wojcik's Avatar
    I see it's up to 405 signatures, i guess that's just about all of us that use a windows phone. So what else is going on .....?
    tgp and FinancialP like this.
    08-19-2013 02:28 PM
  16. ausernameneeded's Avatar
    There is no question that Google would do whatever it takes, whether it's unprofessional or unethical, to kill Microsoft. What Google did to the YouTube app on WP shows that clearly. But it's a little bit surprising how hostile Google went given that the vast majority of its revenue is generated from web browsers running on windows platform. What if Microsoft builds an OS level ad blocker that blocks all ads in web browsers. It doesn't particularly block Google's ads and it allows user configuration so there is little possibility for Google to take it into court room. At the end of day, it's user's choice to block the ads. I'm sure most user would love to have an ad free web browsing experience. That would be like killing Google instantly. Sure it also hurts Microsoft's ads business. But ads business has never been, and will never be Microsoft's core business. On top of that, the search charm in windows 8.1 may enable Microsoft continue doing ads business as it's not technically a web browser. If I were Microsoft, I'd definitely do this. At least it will teach the Google a lesson so that it will come back to the negotiation and won't play like a 5 year old when issue rises.
    08-19-2013 06:08 PM
  17. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    ... Note that EVERY third-party client for YT uses HTML5. None have decompiled and reverse-engineered private APIs as MS did. ...
    Source?

    I ask because I'm positive that you are full of crap. I can tell you for a fact that few if any third party YouTube apps on iOS and WP are built on HTML5 (I have no idea on Android). I can also state for a fact that lots of third party apps have reverse engineered the YouTube APIs.


    HTML5 development is quite limited and inefficient compared to native code. It is generally a poor choice unless creating a cross platform application is a higher priority than anything else. In this case it's not since other platforms already have first party YouTube apps.


    Also, IE10 on WP does support HTML5 video. It just doesn't support playing it inline. Safari on iOS doesn't either. It's not "broken." This is by design because it really doesn't make a ton of sense to watch video embedded in a webpage on such a small screen. Instead, the video is launched full screen.

    I can sum up Google's faux logic very simply in Google's own [paraphrased] words as follows...

    Google: "We aren't going to develop any Windows Phone apps because the platform is too puny and the revenue is not important to us."

    ... a short while later ...

    Google: "Microsoft wrote a YouTube app for our mutual customers, but it only gives us a portion of the revenue that we just said we didn't care about so we are shutting down their app."

    You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to reconcile those two positions.
    Last edited by Cleavitt76; 08-19-2013 at 09:01 PM.
    squire777 and dfaris like this.
    08-19-2013 08:37 PM
  18. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    So Google could have released data to MS about private APIs and metadata - that would again be a big IF because that kind of data is valuable. I mean, try asking MS for the WP source code. That also implies that everytime they decided to change those private APIs, they'd have to work with MS to change the WP app as well - and that doesn't seem like a path they want to go down.
    Do you even know what an API or metadata is? Comparing that to sharing program/OS source code is absolutely ridiculous. The entire point of an API is to share data or services between programs. Metadata is just data that describes other data (like the format, length, or title of a video file for example). If you are going to provide an API for use by other programs you also have to provide documentation on how to use it. It's not meant to be secret, it's meant to share data. An API that programmatically says, "Play this advertisement video before you play the content video" is not sharing some special business secret. It's what Google wants the third party developer to do, but their own API is lacking that logic.

    Basically, Google is criticizing MS for not playing some advertisements or similar, but Google's own public APIs do not make that info available (which they don't seem to care about for countless third party apps) and they refuse to provide access to APIs (public or private) that do provide the required info.
    08-19-2013 08:58 PM
  19. cw1988's Avatar
    Im confused....i have read a few posts in here stating we cant change the default search to google......but i can. Well i can change it in internet explorer, advanced settings then default search.

    I understand we cant change default search when pressing the search button bit surely giving people the option to change it in ie is good?
    08-24-2013 04:23 PM
  20. Kellzea's Avatar
    Im confused....i have read a few posts in here stating we cant change the default search to google......but i can. Well i can change it in internet explorer, advanced settings then default search.

    I understand we cant change default search when pressing the search button bit surely giving people the option to change it in ie is good?
    People are retarded and love to moan. If you could change the entire os to an android ios wp meego Symbian Firefox Ubuntu full windows 7 and 8 hybrid with free space ship and automatic doughnut machine, people would still complain.
    cw1988 likes this.
    08-24-2013 05:11 PM
  21. bozza72's Avatar
    i really couldnt give a toss what google does or does not do on windows phone, there are ample alternatives to use on windows phone you just have to look
    08-24-2013 05:22 PM
  22. gollum18's Avatar
    Do you remember the "scroogle" campaign?

    Sent from the stars...
    08-24-2013 08:26 PM
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