What I think Microsoft needs to do in order to gain market shares in the handset market.

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anony_mouse

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I think more and more people are thinking that W8/RT and WP8 is new and refreshing. My children's friends are always talking about W8, how cool the Surface is and wanting to get new Windows Phones. My children also tell me that Windows is becoming very popular at their schools.



Are you logging into your laptop locally or into a domain? The only reason I can think it would take that long is you're logging into a domain with a very large profile.

Windows has 90%+ market share in the desktop OS market, so yes I imagine it is widely used in schools.

Logging on to a domain or with the machine disconnected takes the same time (except occasionally when it takes 30 minutes to get to the log in screen). The problem is that the machine is totally overloaded, thrashing the hard disk for twenty minutes minutes or more after logging on, even if no other programs are started.
I hear the same complaint from many corporate users.
When I got my first Android phone, I thought it was wonderful in comparison. So fast and instantly available. Microsoft really should find a new name for Windows Phone to disassociate it from the desktop OS.
 

SnailUK

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Logging on to a domain or with the machine disconnected takes the same time (except occasionally when it takes 30 minutes to get to the log in screen). The problem is that the machine is totally overloaded, thrashing the hard disk for twenty minutes minutes or more after logging on, even if no other programs are started.
I hear the same complaint from many corporate users.

You need an SSD & Windows 7.

I recently upgraded from a dual core 2.4ghz Desktop with traditional HDD & XP to a dual core 2.4ghz laptop with SSD & W7, and its like night and day. My desktop had exactly the same experience as you. 10+ minutes before i was realistically able to do anything (although to be fair, it was 4 years old, and hadn't ever been rebuilt), the laptop has me up and running within about a minute, even off the network, its about 2 minutes, most of which is all my network stuff trying to connect.
 

anony_mouse

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The laptop already cost close to 1000 euros, I believe. I'm certainly not going to persuade my company to spend more money on it.
If these 3GHz quad-core, 4GB laptops are not fast enough to run Windows, Microsoft should not put those stupid "Windows" stickers on them. My first PC in 1997 was faster.
 

N_LaRUE

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My first PC in 1997 was faster.

Tell you what. Get your 1997 PC and I'll get my W8 laptop. We'll fire up to two new intensive applications and lets see which one is faster. I can tell you right now your 1997 PC would be lucky to open the application let alone run it.

Also 99% of the reason why work laptops are so slow is due to IT putting a variety of crap on them. My PC at work is running W7 64bit, Xeon 2.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, Nvidia Qudro 2000, dual 21" monitors, . The computer runs slow. Nothing to do with W7 and everything to do with the IT systems.
 

rockstarzzz

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I thought of another idea - Microsoft should drop the name "Windows". Windows Phone doesn't really have anything to do with Windows (except for the half of the UI that no-one likes on Windows 8). In fact, for most people Windows is the aging OS that came with their laptop. Windows takes 10 minutes+ on my new quad core work laptop to get from power on to running Outlook and a web browser. Microsoft really do not want me to associate WP with my experiences of Windows.

You have NO idea about WP do you?
 

anony_mouse

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Tell you what. Get your 1997 PC and I'll get my W8 laptop. We'll fire up to two new intensive applications and lets see which one is faster. I can tell you right now your 1997 PC would be lucky to open the application let alone run it.

Also 99% of the reason why work laptops are so slow is due to IT putting a variety of crap on them. My PC at work is running W7 64bit, Xeon 2.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, Nvidia Qudro 2000, dual 21" monitors, . The computer runs slow. Nothing to do with W7 and everything to do with the IT systems.

Did you even read my post? I am saying that Windows Phone is NOT like a Windows PC. Hence it would be better not to call Windows Phone, well, Windows Phone, as most people will associate the name Windows with the old, slow desktop OS. Do you now understand the point?

I think you've also missed my point about my 1997 PC. Obviously the 2012 machine is much faster, but the user experience is often slower. I'm pretty sure that didn't take 10 minutes to get from power on to reading my e-mail in 1997.
 

N_LaRUE

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Did you even read my post? I am saying that Windows Phone is NOT like a Windows PC. Hence it would be better not to call Windows Phone, well, Windows Phone, as most people will associate the name Windows with the old, slow desktop OS. Do you now understand the point?

I think you've also missed my point about my 1997 PC. Obviously the 2012 machine is much faster, but the user experience is often slower. I'm pretty sure that didn't take 10 minutes to get from power on to reading my e-mail in 1997.

I know that WP isn't like a PC. Hell mobile devices are nothing like PCs. The reason why it's called Windows Phone is due to the it being a MS product and MS has plans to make it an integrated product. Whenever that happens who knows? Maybe it will change to Surface Phone. Don't know nor care.

Your point about a 1997 PC is still silly. Things are completely different these days in regards to IT and my point was your computer is slow due to your IT department, not Windows. I pointed out my work computer is powerful but has the same issues yours does. I have to wait to until things get going. That's due to the IT systems, not Windows.

To suggest Windows is slow is not to have your system optimized. W8 on my home laptop boots in about a minute and that's not a SSD. If I had W8 at work I have little doubt that it would be that quick.

I know that MS and Windows have an image problem. There people still around who think Bill Gates runs MS. So yes I get your point. Thing is if people want to be ignorant and dumb you'll have a hard time changing their minds regardless what they call the phone.

The problems with the phone is all about image but that's because the tech sites are constantly bagging it and with the constant news that it lacks apps. (especially mainstream apps) Doesn't take a rocket scientist to sort out where the problem lies. All it would take is for MS to get the mainstream apps on the phone to shut up the naysayers and things would start to change. I unfortunately don't see this happening any time soon.
 

anony_mouse

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I know that WP isn't like a PC. Hell mobile devices are nothing like PCs. The reason why it's called Windows Phone is due to the it being a MS product and MS has plans to make it an integrated product. Whenever that happens who knows? Maybe it will change to Surface Phone. Don't know nor care.

Well, my point is simply that WP might sell better if it wasn't called WP.
I was thinking - Blackberry would be a good buy for Microsoft. Not sure about the technology but BB is a far more respected brand name than MS. I think MS should buy BB just for the name. Windows Phone can become "BB11", Windows desktop can be BB-enterprise, Exchange server can be BB Messenger 2, etc, etc.

IYour point about a 1997 PC is still silly. Things are completely different these days in regards to IT and my point was your computer is slow due to your IT department, not Windows. I pointed out my work computer is powerful but has the same issues yours does. I have to wait to until things get going. That's due to the IT systems, not Windows.

To suggest Windows is slow is not to have your system optimized. W8 on my home laptop boots in about a minute and that's not a SSD. If I had W8 at work I have little doubt that it would be that quick.

You still miss the point totally. For me and many many other people, Windows is a dreadful, slow, buggy OS that runs on their heavy, scruffy, clunky laptop. Now that might be because of the IT department rather than Microsoft, but I don't care. I'm not going to spend time debugging my machine to allocate blame. All I know is that my Windows machine is a total dog and everyone I know has the same problem. A PC is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The Windows brand is probably tainted beyond recovery and should be dropped for WP (and maybe for desktop and server as well).

I know that MS and Windows have an image problem. There people still around who think Bill Gates runs MS. So yes I get your point. Thing is if people want to be ignorant and dumb you'll have a hard time changing their minds regardless what they call the phone.

Then I guess we can close this thread and Microsoft can just shut down WP development.

IThe problems with the phone is all about image but that's because the tech sites are constantly bagging it and with the constant news that it lacks apps. (especially mainstream apps) Doesn't take a rocket scientist to sort out where the problem lies. All it would take is for MS to get the mainstream apps on the phone to shut up the naysayers and things would start to change. I unfortunately don't see this happening any time soon.

To be fair, the tech sites are right - it does lack apps. What else should they write? That there are loads of apps?
 

anony_mouse

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Oh, oh, oh, I've had another idea. You're going to like this one. Microsoft could basically take Windows Phone and throw it in the bin. Then, they write an Android launcher/skin in the style of metro. This is called "Windows Phone 9". They ship Nokia phones with Android and this launcher/skin on by default. They get the phones approved by Google, so that the phone can access the Android Market.

In this way, the user experience of WP can be preserved while giving users access to a proper ecosystem with a vast range of apps. In fact, users should not notice any difference except the lack of frustration when they do to the app store!

I can't see any serious technical problems with this, and it has so many advantages!
- WP9 phones can get access to a decent range of apps at last. Microsoft can shut down the Windows Store and save some money.
- WP9 phones can run on all the latest hardware.
- Users can drop the metro UI if they don't like it and use another Android launcher.
- Microsoft don't have to maintain a whole operating system for phones, just a skin. Lots of money saved.
- Access to loads of new features that are present in Android but not in WP8.
 
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N_LaRUE

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Well, my point is simply that WP might sell better if it wasn't called WP.
I was thinking - Blackberry would be a good buy for Microsoft. Not sure about the technology but BB is a far more respected brand name than MS. I think MS should buy BB just for the name. Windows Phone can become "BB11", Windows desktop can be BB-enterprise, Exchange server can be BB Messenger 2, etc, etc.

Going by your standards we should just convert MS to Blackberry. Change the name complete and start over. Yeah that's a good idea. Too many people hate MS so why not change to another name completely.

You still miss the point totally. For me and many many other people, Windows is a dreadful, slow, buggy OS that runs on their heavy, scruffy, clunky laptop. Now that might be because of the IT department rather than Microsoft, but I don't care. I'm not going to spend time debugging my machine to allocate blame. All I know is that my Windows machine is a total dog and everyone I know has the same problem. A PC is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The Windows brand is probably tainted beyond recovery and should be dropped for WP (and maybe for desktop and server as well).

I'm not missing your point. What I was trying to tell you is that you appear to have a very narrow minded view of IT. If your work laptop is slow that's not Windows fault. It has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. That's my point. It's not MS's fault that your IT department is either 1) overloading the startup process (likely) or 2) completely incompetent in optimizing their system (also likely). So again, what's changed between 1997 and now is that your IT department has changed the way they do things. Your slow system has nothing to do with Windows. On top of that, like any system in the world, it needs maintenance. If your car starts acting funny you get it fixed. A computer is no different. I don't understand why people don't understand this simple concept.

Then I guess we can close this thread and Microsoft can just shut down WP development.

With people like you around might as well.

To be fair, the tech sites are right - it does lack apps. What else should they write? That there are loads of apps?

The thing is though that's all they ever go on about. They never really get into the details or very few do. There's more to WP than just apps.
 

anony_mouse

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Going by your standards we should just convert MS to Blackberry. Change the name complete and start over. Yeah that's a good idea. Too many people hate MS so why not change to another name completely.

Excellent, you've got the idea!

I'm not missing your point. What I was trying to tell you is that you appear to have a very narrow minded view of IT. If your work laptop is slow that's not Windows fault. It has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. That's my point. It's not MS's fault that your IT department is either 1) overloading the startup process (likely) or 2) completely incompetent in optimizing their system (also likely). So again, what's changed between 1997 and now is that your IT department has changed the way they do things. Your slow system has nothing to do with Windows. On top of that, like any system in the world, it needs maintenance. If your car starts acting funny you get it fixed. A computer is no different. I don't understand why people don't understand this simple concept.

You are missing my point. This is about MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING. (now I understand why sad Steve repeats everything three times). It's not about whether it's fair to blame Microsoft for my PC being slow. The fact is that people associate Windows with being slow, buggy and old. That might not be fair (I don't know, I use Linux at home), but it is true. Therefore, you don't use the same name for your new, fast, reliable product as you do for your nasty, buggy, old one (even if it's a false perception that it's nasty, buggy, and old).

Going back to my PC - it's locked down, I can't do much maintenance to it. I can submit whiney tickets to my IT department but that doesn't seem to help. So, the fact is, my only Windows PC is horrible. Assuming I'm a general user with better things to do than obsessively read about mobile phone platforms, why would I risk buying another Windows product?

With people like you around might as well.

Well, I was making a suggestion for how MS might do a bit less badly. Quite constructive, don't you think? On the other hand, you just moan about how stupid people are. That may be true, but if we give up because of that, we will never get anywhere.

The thing is though that's all they ever go on about. They never really get into the details or very few do. There's more to WP than just apps.

You must read very different tech sites to me. I think Windows Phone gets suspiciously good reviews. I assume something dodgy is going on.
 

martinmc78

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You must read very different tech sites to me. I think Windows Phone gets suspiciously good reviews. I assume something dodgy is going on.

So basically - You compare using an Android phone to logging onto a domain. You think windows phone gets good reviews. You use Linux at home. Your only interaction with a Windows PC is one provided by your company. You think BB has a better reputation than Windows. You use Linux at home.

Your basically a tech journalists clickbait wet dream. Form some opinions of your own then come back and make a worthwhile comment.

And yes, I mentioned you use Linux at home twice - after writing it the first time I couldn't believe someone would actually do that to themselves so had to put it in twice just for clarification.
 

anony_mouse

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So basically - You compare using an Android phone to logging onto a domain. You think windows phone gets good reviews. You use Linux at home. Your only interaction with a Windows PC is one provided by your company. You think BB has a better reputation than Windows. You use Linux at home.

Your basically a tech journalists clickbait wet dream. Form some opinions of your own then come back and make a worthwhile comment.

And yes, I mentioned you use Linux at home twice - after writing it the first time I couldn't believe someone would actually do that to themselves so had to put it in twice just for clarification.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Please could you explain why you think I am a tech journalists' clickbait wet dream? You think that tech journalists find me hugely attractive (I can assure you the feeling is not reciprocated)? What is clickbait?

To be honest, I planned to move to Windows for my home PC, but it's a lot of hassle getting hold of an English version of Windows (where I live), backing everything up, installing, copying the data back, etc, etc. Maybe I will do it one day (if we still use PCs then), but Linux works fine for me. Isn't that the most important thing (according to these forums)?

You guys really don't get my point about my work PC. I'm not comparing anything to anything. I am saying that a typical experience for people using Windows is slow and clunky. Not necessarily Windows' fault, but nevertheless a common perception. Therefore, Microsoft would be better not to use the name Windows for other products (look at the title of this thread). If you don't like Blackberry as an alternative, how about the 'X-Box phone', or the 'tile phone'? Maybe you can think of something better? I would suggest Nokia, but I don't think MS have the rights to do that.

And yes, I think Windows Phone gets good reviews. Check out this one from the hated Engadget - Windows Phone 8 review - the only negative point they make is that the ecosystem is unproven, which I think even the most slavish WP ****** would surely have to agree with.

There - I managed a whole reply without insulting anyone.
 

martinmc78

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You guys really don't get my point about my work PC. I'm not comparing anything to anything. I am saying that a typical experience for people using Windows is slow and clunky. Not necessarily Windows' fault, but nevertheless a common perception. Therefore, Microsoft would be better not to use the name Windows for other products (look at the title of this thread). If you don't like Blackberry as an alternative, how about the 'X-Box phone', or the 'tile phone'? Maybe you can think of something better? I would suggest Nokia, but I don't think MS have the rights to do that.

But you missed the point others have made as well - ALL work PC's are slow no matter what spec and what software. My work PC is a self built 4.2ghz, 8core, 32gb ram, 4gb graphics monster running windows 7 and even that takes at least 5 minutes on startup before I can even think about doing anything. As soon as its touched by an IT department that's it, its slow. If your taking that as a common perception then you need to get out more and try some other hardware. If you think the Windows name needs changing due to that perception then so does Android - its synonymous with cheap hardware, laggy insecure OS and a severely fragmented device range. Or even apple that's become synonymous with extortionate prices and a lack of innovation. Should all 3 companies have a name change just to satisfy common perception?
 

anony_mouse

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But you missed the point others have made as well - ALL work PC's are slow no matter what spec and what software. My work PC is a self built 4.2ghz, 8core, 32gb ram, 4gb graphics monster running windows 7 and even that takes at least 5 minutes on startup before I can even think about doing anything. As soon as its touched by an IT department that's it, its slow. If your taking that as a common perception then you need to get out more and try some other hardware. If you think the Windows name needs changing due to that perception then so does Android - its synonymous with cheap hardware, laggy insecure OS and a severely fragmented device range. Or even apple that's become synonymous with extortionate prices and a lack of innovation. Should all 3 companies have a name change just to satisfy common perception?

No, no, no!!!!! (I am channelling Stevie a lot today.)
It's not about hardware! It's not about your PC spec! It's not about the IT department! It's not about Apple and Android - whatever their pros and cons, they are far more successful on phones than Microsoft. It's not even about my perception of Windows. I've run Windows 8.1 in VirtualBox and it seems fairly quick.

Let me explain one more time:
1. Microsoft have, so far, not been successful on phones and tablets.
2. For many people - including it seems both you and me - using Windows is often a bad experience. This might not be Microsoft's fault for the reasons we already discussed at tedious length, but it doesn't create a good perception around Windows.
3. Maybe Microsoft could sell more phones if they didn't use the tainted Windows name for their phone OS.
4. We all read the title of this thread and note that it's not about performance optimisation for PCs.
5. We all go to the pub, leaving our phones at home, and drink some beer.

Perhaps Android should change its name, but given it has 80% market share, probably Google won't bother. Microsoft may need to think a bit more radically.
 
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martinmc78

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Let me explain one more time:
1. Microsoft have, so far, not been successful on phones and tablets.
2. For many people - including it seems both you and me - using Windows is often a bad experience. This might not be Microsoft's fault for the reasons we already discussed at tedious length, but it doesn't create a good perception around Windows.
3. Maybe Microsoft could sell more phones if they didn't use the tainted Windows name for their phone OS.
4. We all read the title of this thread and note that it's not about performance optimisation for PCs.
5. We all go to the pub, leaving our phones at home, and drink some beer.

Perhaps Android should change its name, but given it has 80% market share, probably Google won't bother. Microsoft may need to think a bit more radically.

1. So far. Note they are 3 years behind and already have products that are in front of the competition.
2. Windows is not a bad experience for me. My work PC is slow on startup due to restrictions placed on it by the IT department - after the initial 5 minutes my whole day is a joy of flawless computing using windows 7. I get home and my PC there is possibly the most awesome PC outside of a Microsoft designed technology show home. It runs windows 8. The journey to and from work I get to use the most productive tablet on the market in my surface running windows 8.1.
3. They would sell more phones if they had more apps - its nothing to do with the windows name.
4. Im glad you can read.
5. I don't drink or go to pubs and I always have my phone with me.

Marketshare figures mean nothing - its profit that matters which is why even with only 17% apple pulls in more money than google. Even MS makes more off google via mobile down to patent licensing. The situation with android is when Samsung split off then androids marketshare will plummet. They may as well rename Android to Samsung mobile.
 

anony_mouse

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1. So far. Note they are 3 years behind and already have products that are in front of the competition.

That's a subjective opinion, and also not the point. This thread is about how Microsoft could gain market share. I am presenting one opinion about how they could do that.

2. Windows is not a bad experience for me. My work PC is slow on startup due to restrictions placed on it by the IT department - after the initial 5 minutes my whole day is a joy of flawless computing using windows 7. I get home and my PC there is possibly the most awesome PC outside of a Microsoft designed technology show home. It runs windows 8. The journey to and from work I get to use the most productive tablet on the market in my surface running windows 8.1.

That's fantastic news! I won't have to worry about your computing experience any more. But please understand that the world is bigger than just you. There are other people out there, and most of them do not own Windows Phones. They are the people that Microsoft need to appeal to.
BTW, your way of thinking (i.e. apparent incomprehension that other people might have a different experience to you, or needs, or point of view) is very common in internet forums, but I rarely see it when talking to people in the real world. I'm very curious as to why this is. Do internet forums attract people that I don't meet? Or do people behave differently on internet forums?

3. They would sell more phones if they had more apps - its nothing to do with the windows name.

See my idea in post #31 for how to solve this. BTW, do you have any evidence to support your claim that the Windows name is not a problem? I don't have any evidence to back up my proposal. It's just an idea - if you don't like it, fair enough, but I would like to see some actual evidence or reasoned arguments against it.

4. Im glad you can read.

Well thank you! You certainly seem like a friendly chap.

5. I don't drink or go to pubs and I always have my phone with me.

I should probably have guessed that. Seriously, though, don't define yourself by the products you buy. Get out and meet people. There are many more interesting things in the world than phones. The saddest thing I see in pubs/restaurants/cafes etc is couples sitting together, but playing with their phones rather than talking to each other. Technology is a double edged sword.

Marketshare figures mean nothing

Mean nothing to who?

- its profit that matters which is why even with only 17% apple pulls in more money than google.

Important to consider when buying shares in companies. Not so relevant when choosing what phone to buy. If everyone bought products only from the most profitable company, then Apple would have 100% market share.

Even MS makes more off google via mobile down to patent licensing.

Not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to say - MS makes more than what? IPR income is important when choosing which company's shares to buy, but not so much when choosing a phone. Patent licensing is a nice way for a company to make money (just have to sit there and watch the cash roll in - no hard work needed!). It's not a long term strategy though - patents expire and the world moves on to other technologies. I've worked for companies that make a lot of money through IPR and seen this from the inside. They tend to be companies in decline, that used to be market leaders but are now struggling to be relevant. Perhaps Microsoft can be different, but it's not shaping up well so far.

The situation with android is when Samsung split off then androids marketshare will plummet. They may as well rename Android to Samsung mobile.

I'm not here to defend Android (this thread is about promoting Windows Phone). However, I doubt Samsung will drop Android. If they do, they will have the same problem as Microsoft - i.e. no apps. Even if Samsung's new platform is better than Android, without apps it will be less attractive to consumers.
 

kbilly70

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But please understand that the world is bigger than just you. BTW, your way of thinking (i.e. apparent incomprehension that other people might have a different experience to you, or needs, or point of view)

Seriously, you should go back and read through your posts.
 
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