09-28-2013 08:14 PM
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  1. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Tell you what. Get your 1997 PC and I'll get my W8 laptop. We'll fire up to two new intensive applications and lets see which one is faster. I can tell you right now your 1997 PC would be lucky to open the application let alone run it.

    Also 99% of the reason why work laptops are so slow is due to IT putting a variety of crap on them. My PC at work is running W7 64bit, Xeon 2.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, Nvidia Qudro 2000, dual 21" monitors, . The computer runs slow. Nothing to do with W7 and everything to do with the IT systems.
    Did you even read my post? I am saying that Windows Phone is NOT like a Windows PC. Hence it would be better not to call Windows Phone, well, Windows Phone, as most people will associate the name Windows with the old, slow desktop OS. Do you now understand the point?

    I think you've also missed my point about my 1997 PC. Obviously the 2012 machine is much faster, but the user experience is often slower. I'm pretty sure that didn't take 10 minutes to get from power on to reading my e-mail in 1997.
    09-26-2013 05:14 AM
  2. anony_mouse's Avatar
    You have NO idea about WP do you?
    I'm making a suggestion for how Microsoft might sell more phones. What are you doing?
    09-26-2013 05:57 AM
  3. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Did you even read my post? I am saying that Windows Phone is NOT like a Windows PC. Hence it would be better not to call Windows Phone, well, Windows Phone, as most people will associate the name Windows with the old, slow desktop OS. Do you now understand the point?

    I think you've also missed my point about my 1997 PC. Obviously the 2012 machine is much faster, but the user experience is often slower. I'm pretty sure that didn't take 10 minutes to get from power on to reading my e-mail in 1997.
    I know that WP isn't like a PC. Hell mobile devices are nothing like PCs. The reason why it's called Windows Phone is due to the it being a MS product and MS has plans to make it an integrated product. Whenever that happens who knows? Maybe it will change to Surface Phone. Don't know nor care.

    Your point about a 1997 PC is still silly. Things are completely different these days in regards to IT and my point was your computer is slow due to your IT department, not Windows. I pointed out my work computer is powerful but has the same issues yours does. I have to wait to until things get going. That's due to the IT systems, not Windows.

    To suggest Windows is slow is not to have your system optimized. W8 on my home laptop boots in about a minute and that's not a SSD. If I had W8 at work I have little doubt that it would be that quick.

    I know that MS and Windows have an image problem. There people still around who think Bill Gates runs MS. So yes I get your point. Thing is if people want to be ignorant and dumb you'll have a hard time changing their minds regardless what they call the phone.

    The problems with the phone is all about image but that's because the tech sites are constantly bagging it and with the constant news that it lacks apps. (especially mainstream apps) Doesn't take a rocket scientist to sort out where the problem lies. All it would take is for MS to get the mainstream apps on the phone to shut up the naysayers and things would start to change. I unfortunately don't see this happening any time soon.
    09-26-2013 06:04 AM
  4. anony_mouse's Avatar
    I know that WP isn't like a PC. Hell mobile devices are nothing like PCs. The reason why it's called Windows Phone is due to the it being a MS product and MS has plans to make it an integrated product. Whenever that happens who knows? Maybe it will change to Surface Phone. Don't know nor care.
    Well, my point is simply that WP might sell better if it wasn't called WP.
    I was thinking - Blackberry would be a good buy for Microsoft. Not sure about the technology but BB is a far more respected brand name than MS. I think MS should buy BB just for the name. Windows Phone can become "BB11", Windows desktop can be BB-enterprise, Exchange server can be BB Messenger 2, etc, etc.

    IYour point about a 1997 PC is still silly. Things are completely different these days in regards to IT and my point was your computer is slow due to your IT department, not Windows. I pointed out my work computer is powerful but has the same issues yours does. I have to wait to until things get going. That's due to the IT systems, not Windows.

    To suggest Windows is slow is not to have your system optimized. W8 on my home laptop boots in about a minute and that's not a SSD. If I had W8 at work I have little doubt that it would be that quick.
    You still miss the point totally. For me and many many other people, Windows is a dreadful, slow, buggy OS that runs on their heavy, scruffy, clunky laptop. Now that might be because of the IT department rather than Microsoft, but I don't care. I'm not going to spend time debugging my machine to allocate blame. All I know is that my Windows machine is a total dog and everyone I know has the same problem. A PC is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The Windows brand is probably tainted beyond recovery and should be dropped for WP (and maybe for desktop and server as well).

    I know that MS and Windows have an image problem. There people still around who think Bill Gates runs MS. So yes I get your point. Thing is if people want to be ignorant and dumb you'll have a hard time changing their minds regardless what they call the phone.
    Then I guess we can close this thread and Microsoft can just shut down WP development.

    IThe problems with the phone is all about image but that's because the tech sites are constantly bagging it and with the constant news that it lacks apps. (especially mainstream apps) Doesn't take a rocket scientist to sort out where the problem lies. All it would take is for MS to get the mainstream apps on the phone to shut up the naysayers and things would start to change. I unfortunately don't see this happening any time soon.
    To be fair, the tech sites are right - it does lack apps. What else should they write? That there are loads of apps?
    09-26-2013 06:20 AM
  5. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Oh, oh, oh, I've had another idea. You're going to like this one. Microsoft could basically take Windows Phone and throw it in the bin. Then, they write an Android launcher/skin in the style of metro. This is called "Windows Phone 9". They ship Nokia phones with Android and this launcher/skin on by default. They get the phones approved by Google, so that the phone can access the Android Market.

    In this way, the user experience of WP can be preserved while giving users access to a proper ecosystem with a vast range of apps. In fact, users should not notice any difference except the lack of frustration when they do to the app store!

    I can't see any serious technical problems with this, and it has so many advantages!
    - WP9 phones can get access to a decent range of apps at last. Microsoft can shut down the Windows Store and save some money.
    - WP9 phones can run on all the latest hardware.
    - Users can drop the metro UI if they don't like it and use another Android launcher.
    - Microsoft don't have to maintain a whole operating system for phones, just a skin. Lots of money saved.
    - Access to loads of new features that are present in Android but not in WP8.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 09-26-2013 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Better explanation.
    09-26-2013 06:38 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Well, my point is simply that WP might sell better if it wasn't called WP.
    I was thinking - Blackberry would be a good buy for Microsoft. Not sure about the technology but BB is a far more respected brand name than MS. I think MS should buy BB just for the name. Windows Phone can become "BB11", Windows desktop can be BB-enterprise, Exchange server can be BB Messenger 2, etc, etc.
    Going by your standards we should just convert MS to Blackberry. Change the name complete and start over. Yeah that's a good idea. Too many people hate MS so why not change to another name completely.

    You still miss the point totally. For me and many many other people, Windows is a dreadful, slow, buggy OS that runs on their heavy, scruffy, clunky laptop. Now that might be because of the IT department rather than Microsoft, but I don't care. I'm not going to spend time debugging my machine to allocate blame. All I know is that my Windows machine is a total dog and everyone I know has the same problem. A PC is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The Windows brand is probably tainted beyond recovery and should be dropped for WP (and maybe for desktop and server as well).
    I'm not missing your point. What I was trying to tell you is that you appear to have a very narrow minded view of IT. If your work laptop is slow that's not Windows fault. It has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. That's my point. It's not MS's fault that your IT department is either 1) overloading the startup process (likely) or 2) completely incompetent in optimizing their system (also likely). So again, what's changed between 1997 and now is that your IT department has changed the way they do things. Your slow system has nothing to do with Windows. On top of that, like any system in the world, it needs maintenance. If your car starts acting funny you get it fixed. A computer is no different. I don't understand why people don't understand this simple concept.

    Then I guess we can close this thread and Microsoft can just shut down WP development.
    With people like you around might as well.

    To be fair, the tech sites are right - it does lack apps. What else should they write? That there are loads of apps?
    The thing is though that's all they ever go on about. They never really get into the details or very few do. There's more to WP than just apps.
    kbilly70 likes this.
    09-26-2013 06:45 AM
  7. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Going by your standards we should just convert MS to Blackberry. Change the name complete and start over. Yeah that's a good idea. Too many people hate MS so why not change to another name completely.
    Excellent, you've got the idea!

    I'm not missing your point. What I was trying to tell you is that you appear to have a very narrow minded view of IT. If your work laptop is slow that's not Windows fault. It has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. That's my point. It's not MS's fault that your IT department is either 1) overloading the startup process (likely) or 2) completely incompetent in optimizing their system (also likely). So again, what's changed between 1997 and now is that your IT department has changed the way they do things. Your slow system has nothing to do with Windows. On top of that, like any system in the world, it needs maintenance. If your car starts acting funny you get it fixed. A computer is no different. I don't understand why people don't understand this simple concept.
    You are missing my point. This is about MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING. (now I understand why sad Steve repeats everything three times). It's not about whether it's fair to blame Microsoft for my PC being slow. The fact is that people associate Windows with being slow, buggy and old. That might not be fair (I don't know, I use Linux at home), but it is true. Therefore, you don't use the same name for your new, fast, reliable product as you do for your nasty, buggy, old one (even if it's a false perception that it's nasty, buggy, and old).

    Going back to my PC - it's locked down, I can't do much maintenance to it. I can submit whiney tickets to my IT department but that doesn't seem to help. So, the fact is, my only Windows PC is horrible. Assuming I'm a general user with better things to do than obsessively read about mobile phone platforms, why would I risk buying another Windows product?

    With people like you around might as well.
    Well, I was making a suggestion for how MS might do a bit less badly. Quite constructive, don't you think? On the other hand, you just moan about how stupid people are. That may be true, but if we give up because of that, we will never get anywhere.

    The thing is though that's all they ever go on about. They never really get into the details or very few do. There's more to WP than just apps.
    You must read very different tech sites to me. I think Windows Phone gets suspiciously good reviews. I assume something dodgy is going on.
    09-26-2013 07:05 AM
  8. martinmc78's Avatar
    You must read very different tech sites to me. I think Windows Phone gets suspiciously good reviews. I assume something dodgy is going on.
    So basically - You compare using an Android phone to logging onto a domain. You think windows phone gets good reviews. You use Linux at home. Your only interaction with a Windows PC is one provided by your company. You think BB has a better reputation than Windows. You use Linux at home.

    Your basically a tech journalists clickbait wet dream. Form some opinions of your own then come back and make a worthwhile comment.

    And yes, I mentioned you use Linux at home twice - after writing it the first time I couldn't believe someone would actually do that to themselves so had to put it in twice just for clarification.
    N_LaRUE, snowmutt and kbilly70 like this.
    09-26-2013 09:09 AM
  9. anony_mouse's Avatar
    So basically - You compare using an Android phone to logging onto a domain. You think windows phone gets good reviews. You use Linux at home. Your only interaction with a Windows PC is one provided by your company. You think BB has a better reputation than Windows. You use Linux at home.

    Your basically a tech journalists clickbait wet dream. Form some opinions of your own then come back and make a worthwhile comment.

    And yes, I mentioned you use Linux at home twice - after writing it the first time I couldn't believe someone would actually do that to themselves so had to put it in twice just for clarification.
    I'm sorry, I don't understand. Please could you explain why you think I am a tech journalists' clickbait wet dream? You think that tech journalists find me hugely attractive (I can assure you the feeling is not reciprocated)? What is clickbait?

    To be honest, I planned to move to Windows for my home PC, but it's a lot of hassle getting hold of an English version of Windows (where I live), backing everything up, installing, copying the data back, etc, etc. Maybe I will do it one day (if we still use PCs then), but Linux works fine for me. Isn't that the most important thing (according to these forums)?

    You guys really don't get my point about my work PC. I'm not comparing anything to anything. I am saying that a typical experience for people using Windows is slow and clunky. Not necessarily Windows' fault, but nevertheless a common perception. Therefore, Microsoft would be better not to use the name Windows for other products (look at the title of this thread). If you don't like Blackberry as an alternative, how about the 'X-Box phone', or the 'tile phone'? Maybe you can think of something better? I would suggest Nokia, but I don't think MS have the rights to do that.

    And yes, I think Windows Phone gets good reviews. Check out this one from the hated Engadget - Windows Phone 8 review - the only negative point they make is that the ecosystem is unproven, which I think even the most slavish WP fanboy would surely have to agree with.

    There - I managed a whole reply without insulting anyone.
    09-26-2013 09:31 AM
  10. martinmc78's Avatar
    You guys really don't get my point about my work PC. I'm not comparing anything to anything. I am saying that a typical experience for people using Windows is slow and clunky. Not necessarily Windows' fault, but nevertheless a common perception. Therefore, Microsoft would be better not to use the name Windows for other products (look at the title of this thread). If you don't like Blackberry as an alternative, how about the 'X-Box phone', or the 'tile phone'? Maybe you can think of something better? I would suggest Nokia, but I don't think MS have the rights to do that.
    But you missed the point others have made as well - ALL work PC's are slow no matter what spec and what software. My work PC is a self built 4.2ghz, 8core, 32gb ram, 4gb graphics monster running windows 7 and even that takes at least 5 minutes on startup before I can even think about doing anything. As soon as its touched by an IT department that's it, its slow. If your taking that as a common perception then you need to get out more and try some other hardware. If you think the Windows name needs changing due to that perception then so does Android - its synonymous with cheap hardware, laggy insecure OS and a severely fragmented device range. Or even apple that's become synonymous with extortionate prices and a lack of innovation. Should all 3 companies have a name change just to satisfy common perception?
    09-26-2013 09:55 AM
  11. anony_mouse's Avatar
    But you missed the point others have made as well - ALL work PC's are slow no matter what spec and what software. My work PC is a self built 4.2ghz, 8core, 32gb ram, 4gb graphics monster running windows 7 and even that takes at least 5 minutes on startup before I can even think about doing anything. As soon as its touched by an IT department that's it, its slow. If your taking that as a common perception then you need to get out more and try some other hardware. If you think the Windows name needs changing due to that perception then so does Android - its synonymous with cheap hardware, laggy insecure OS and a severely fragmented device range. Or even apple that's become synonymous with extortionate prices and a lack of innovation. Should all 3 companies have a name change just to satisfy common perception?
    No, no, no!!!!! (I am channelling Stevie a lot today.)
    It's not about hardware! It's not about your PC spec! It's not about the IT department! It's not about Apple and Android - whatever their pros and cons, they are far more successful on phones than Microsoft. It's not even about my perception of Windows. I've run Windows 8.1 in VirtualBox and it seems fairly quick.

    Let me explain one more time:
    1. Microsoft have, so far, not been successful on phones and tablets.
    2. For many people - including it seems both you and me - using Windows is often a bad experience. This might not be Microsoft's fault for the reasons we already discussed at tedious length, but it doesn't create a good perception around Windows.
    3. Maybe Microsoft could sell more phones if they didn't use the tainted Windows name for their phone OS.
    4. We all read the title of this thread and note that it's not about performance optimisation for PCs.
    5. We all go to the pub, leaving our phones at home, and drink some beer.

    Perhaps Android should change its name, but given it has 80% market share, probably Google won't bother. Microsoft may need to think a bit more radically.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 09-26-2013 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Used the word 'already' too often.
    09-26-2013 10:14 AM
  12. martinmc78's Avatar

    Let me explain one more time:
    1. Microsoft have, so far, not been successful on phones and tablets.
    2. For many people - including it seems both you and me - using Windows is often a bad experience. This might not be Microsoft's fault for the reasons we already discussed at tedious length, but it doesn't create a good perception around Windows.
    3. Maybe Microsoft could sell more phones if they didn't use the tainted Windows name for their phone OS.
    4. We all read the title of this thread and note that it's not about performance optimisation for PCs.
    5. We all go to the pub, leaving our phones at home, and drink some beer.

    Perhaps Android should change its name, but given it has 80% market share, probably Google won't bother. Microsoft may need to think a bit more radically.
    1. So far. Note they are 3 years behind and already have products that are in front of the competition.
    2. Windows is not a bad experience for me. My work PC is slow on startup due to restrictions placed on it by the IT department - after the initial 5 minutes my whole day is a joy of flawless computing using windows 7. I get home and my PC there is possibly the most awesome PC outside of a Microsoft designed technology show home. It runs windows 8. The journey to and from work I get to use the most productive tablet on the market in my surface running windows 8.1.
    3. They would sell more phones if they had more apps - its nothing to do with the windows name.
    4. Im glad you can read.
    5. I don't drink or go to pubs and I always have my phone with me.

    Marketshare figures mean nothing - its profit that matters which is why even with only 17% apple pulls in more money than google. Even MS makes more off google via mobile down to patent licensing. The situation with android is when Samsung split off then androids marketshare will plummet. They may as well rename Android to Samsung mobile.
    09-26-2013 10:37 AM
  13. anony_mouse's Avatar
    1. So far. Note they are 3 years behind and already have products that are in front of the competition.
    That's a subjective opinion, and also not the point. This thread is about how Microsoft could gain market share. I am presenting one opinion about how they could do that.

    2. Windows is not a bad experience for me. My work PC is slow on startup due to restrictions placed on it by the IT department - after the initial 5 minutes my whole day is a joy of flawless computing using windows 7. I get home and my PC there is possibly the most awesome PC outside of a Microsoft designed technology show home. It runs windows 8. The journey to and from work I get to use the most productive tablet on the market in my surface running windows 8.1.
    That's fantastic news! I won't have to worry about your computing experience any more. But please understand that the world is bigger than just you. There are other people out there, and most of them do not own Windows Phones. They are the people that Microsoft need to appeal to.
    BTW, your way of thinking (i.e. apparent incomprehension that other people might have a different experience to you, or needs, or point of view) is very common in internet forums, but I rarely see it when talking to people in the real world. I'm very curious as to why this is. Do internet forums attract people that I don't meet? Or do people behave differently on internet forums?

    3. They would sell more phones if they had more apps - its nothing to do with the windows name.
    See my idea in post #31 for how to solve this. BTW, do you have any evidence to support your claim that the Windows name is not a problem? I don't have any evidence to back up my proposal. It's just an idea - if you don't like it, fair enough, but I would like to see some actual evidence or reasoned arguments against it.

    4. Im glad you can read.
    Well thank you! You certainly seem like a friendly chap.

    5. I don't drink or go to pubs and I always have my phone with me.
    I should probably have guessed that. Seriously, though, don't define yourself by the products you buy. Get out and meet people. There are many more interesting things in the world than phones. The saddest thing I see in pubs/restaurants/cafes etc is couples sitting together, but playing with their phones rather than talking to each other. Technology is a double edged sword.

    Marketshare figures mean nothing
    Mean nothing to who?

    - its profit that matters which is why even with only 17% apple pulls in more money than google.
    Important to consider when buying shares in companies. Not so relevant when choosing what phone to buy. If everyone bought products only from the most profitable company, then Apple would have 100% market share.

    Even MS makes more off google via mobile down to patent licensing.
    Not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to say - MS makes more than what? IPR income is important when choosing which company's shares to buy, but not so much when choosing a phone. Patent licensing is a nice way for a company to make money (just have to sit there and watch the cash roll in - no hard work needed!). It's not a long term strategy though - patents expire and the world moves on to other technologies. I've worked for companies that make a lot of money through IPR and seen this from the inside. They tend to be companies in decline, that used to be market leaders but are now struggling to be relevant. Perhaps Microsoft can be different, but it's not shaping up well so far.

    The situation with android is when Samsung split off then androids marketshare will plummet. They may as well rename Android to Samsung mobile.
    I'm not here to defend Android (this thread is about promoting Windows Phone). However, I doubt Samsung will drop Android. If they do, they will have the same problem as Microsoft - i.e. no apps. Even if Samsung's new platform is better than Android, without apps it will be less attractive to consumers.
    09-26-2013 11:22 AM
  14. kbilly70's Avatar
    But please understand that the world is bigger than just you. BTW, your way of thinking (i.e. apparent incomprehension that other people might have a different experience to you, or needs, or point of view)
    Seriously, you should go back and read through your posts.
    09-26-2013 12:15 PM
  15. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Seriously, you should go back and read through your posts.
    Specifically, which ones?
    09-26-2013 12:19 PM
  16. squire777's Avatar
    My 4 year old HP mini netbook gets to an open window of firefox about 80-90 seconds after I power it on.

    I stopped taking this guy seriously after his rant about taking 10 minutes.
    09-26-2013 04:37 PM
  17. anony_mouse's Avatar
    My 4 year old HP mini netbook gets to an open window of firefox about 80-90 seconds after I power it on.

    I stopped taking this guy seriously after his rant about taking 10 minutes.
    Are you saying that my work PC doesn't take ten minutes to get from power on to Outlook and a browser running? How can you possibly know that? I believe your 80-90 second figure. Why don't you believe my ten minute figure?

    As everyone here seems to be obsessed with PC start up times rather than how to sell more Windows Phones, I will restate my idea in a different way.

    1. For unspecified reasons, my observation is that many people have a negative view of Windows. Note: 'many people' does not necessarily include you.
    2. Therefore, Microsoft would sell more phones if they used a name other than 'Windows Phone'. Note: I assume that most people on this forum already own a Windows phone, and would probably buy another regardless of the name, so this is likely not about you. It's about the people out there who don't own a Windows Phone but might possibly be persuaded to buy one in the future. I further assume this is quite a large number of people - many more than own a Windows Phone today.

    What do you think of this idea? If you don't like it, please explain why.
    09-26-2013 05:02 PM
  18. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Are you saying that my work PC doesn't take ten minutes to get from power on to Outlook and a browser running? How can you possibly know that? I believe your 80-90 second figure. Why don't you believe my ten minute figure?

    As everyone here seems to be obsessed with PC start up times rather than how to sell more Windows Phones, I will restate my idea in a different way.
    Because you're basing your Windows experience based on your company computer. Regardless on how long your work computer takes to boot up or how slow it is to use on a regular basis afterwards (which you haven't mentioned) it's not a true indication of what Windows is like. You're completely biased.

    1. For unspecified reasons, my observation is that many people have a negative view of Windows. Note: 'many people' does not necessarily include you.
    Please provide an explanation of 'many people' and what do you mean by 'your observation'? Personal bias finds root causes where there is none. Windows PC OS has about 90% of the market. I have a hard time believing that you're 'many' is a respectable number.

    2. Therefore, Microsoft would sell more phones if they used a name other than 'Windows Phone'. Note: I assume that most people on this forum already own a Windows phone, and would probably buy another regardless of the name, so this is likely not about you. It's about the people out there who don't own a Windows Phone but might possibly be persuaded to buy one in the future. I further assume this is quite a large number of people - many more than own a Windows Phone today.
    So based on your vague speculation of 'many people' you have determined that in 'your' conclusion that the Windows name should be dropped from a product. Yes I can see why your observations should be taken seriously. I think you have a small view of the IT world and your bias towards Windows is simply that.

    What do you think of this idea? If you don't like it, please explain why.
    I don't like it because it all personal bias. That's why. You haven't provided any statistical data to backup anything you've stated. It's all your personal opinion.

    The reason for the slow uptake of Windows has many factors behind it. Most likely it's apps and all the negative aspects of it. I don't think the Windows name is the turn off you make it.

    So if you want me to take you seriously prove to me the negative correlation to Windows that you believe exists and I'll start taking you seriously. Until then you're just blowing hot air.
    martinmc78 and squire777 like this.
    09-27-2013 03:34 AM
  19. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Because you're basing your Windows experience based on your company computer. Regardless on how long your work computer takes to boot up or how slow it is to use on a regular basis afterwards (which you haven't mentioned) it's not a true indication of what Windows is like. You're completely biased.
    Seriously, have you read any of my posts? Why do you say I am biased? Am I any more biased than you?
    I completely agree that my work laptop may not be representative and I've said this many times (check back if you don't believe me). I have used other Windows machines that start up quickly and aren't hopelessly laggy. This is not about me. I am making a general observsation that in my experience, many people have a negative view of Windows.

    Please provide an explanation of 'many people' and what do you mean by 'your observation'? Personal bias finds root causes where there is none. Windows PC OS has about 90% of the market. I have a hard time believing that you're 'many' is a respectable number.
    This is not about my personal bias. And I'm not producing any evidence to back up my claim. You will have to compare it with your own experience (not necessarily of your own computer, but of other people that you know).

    So based on your vague speculation of 'many people' you have determined that in 'your' conclusion that the Windows name should be dropped from a product. Yes I can see why your observations should be taken seriously. I think you have a small view of the IT world and your bias towards Windows is simply that.
    Yes. It was a suggestion that I hoped would lead to an interesting discussion. That is the purpose of an internet forum, I believe? It was a slightly cheeky and humourous suggestion, I agree, but unfortunately humour doesn't really survive long discussions on PC start up times.
    Why do you think I have a small view of the IT world? Why do you think I'm biased against Windows?

    I don't like it because it all personal bias. That's why. You haven't provided any statistical data to backup anything you've stated. It's all your personal opinion.
    Now we're talking! Finally someone actually responds to my idea! I could hug you right now. You don't know how good it feels to finally get my point across. Sometimes it is great to be alive.
    So to summarise and remove the personal remarks - you don't agree with my point 1 (i.e. that many people have a negative view of Windows); and therefore point 2 is irrelevant. Correct?

    Now, let's try to move things on. Regarding point 1 - do you have any evidence to refute my statement that 'many people have a negative view of Windows'? If so, please present it. If not, then we're both just presenting personal opinions and anecdotal evidence. That's fine (this is the internet), but let's be clear about that.

    The reason for the slow uptake of Windows has many factors behind it. Most likely it's apps and all the negative aspects of it. I don't think the Windows name is the turn off you make it.
    How do we solve the apps problem? What are 'the negative aspects of it' (not sure what you meant by that)? How do we solve these negative aspects?

    So if you want me to take you seriously prove to me the negative correlation to Windows that you believe exists and I'll start taking you seriously. Until then you're just blowing hot air.
    I'm not asking you to take me seriously. Indeed I'm 'blowing hot air' (whatever that means). I just wanted someone to respond the point I was making!
    Now, I'm hoping that we can have an interesting discussion - maybe we learn something and hopefully we have some fun. I'd be very interested if you have numbers to back up your assertions - if you do we can test my idea and see if it makes any sense. Otherwise we are both just 'blowing hot air'.
    09-27-2013 04:08 AM
  20. ohgood's Avatar
    I saw your point right off, but if you say anything slightly negative here, with or without the explanation, it's rarely seen as anything other than trolling.

    The perception that people have of their 10 minute boot up work computers is right on, and a good reason to distance the phone brand from the PC brand.
    09-27-2013 04:28 AM
  21. martinmc78's Avatar
    I just wanted someone to respond the point I was making!
    Now, I'm hoping that we can have an interesting discussion - maybe we learn something and hopefully we have some fun. I'd be very interested if you have numbers to back up your assertions.
    You have no point. All you have is subjective opinions - which according to one of your earlier posts don't count.

    Also "blowing hot air" is a polite way of saying "Your full of sh*t"

    Further there are no "numbers" anyone can provide for either case. You are however on a windows forum and while we can all agree that MS has issues and quite often do things that make consumers want to face palm you will be hard pushed to convince anyone on here that changing MS products to use google or android is the way forward.
    09-27-2013 04:30 AM
  22. anony_mouse's Avatar
    You have no point. All you have is subjective opinions - which according to one of your earlier posts don't count.
    In which post did I say that?

    Also "blowing hot air" is a polite way of saying "Your full of sh*t"
    You certainly have an elegant way of expressing yourself, good sir!

    Further there are no "numbers" anyone can provide for either case.
    OK, so we're all on an equal footing here.

    You are however on a windows forum and while we can all agree that MS has issues and quite often do things that make consumers want to face palm you will be hard pushed to convince anyone on here that changing MS products to use google or android is the way forward.
    I'm not trying to convince anyone, just to have an interesting and enlightening discussion.

    Anyway, I'm going to rephrase my idea again, maybe we can get some even better feedback:

    1. The Windows brand name is loved by everyone. It's associated with universal happiness - instant start times, incredible speed, exquisite user interface, etc. However... Microsoft own a brand which is (hard to believe) even better! X-box. Everyone loves X-box even more!

    2. Windows Phones have been a tremendous success. Those factories can't turn them out fast enough and shops are overwhelmed by demand. Normal people (not fanboys!) queue up for days as soon as new supplies are even rumoured to be coming. However, there are two tiny clouds on the horizon - Apple and Android. Now, these are clearly legacy systems and look pathetic and puny when compared to Windows Phone. But for some reason, a few people still buy them. Hard to believe, I know! So the question is, how do we (who have seen the wondrous light of Windows Phone), relieve the suffering of these poor souls and convince them to follow the Windows path to true happiness? Surely we owe it to these people to help them? Are we not good people? How could we live with ourselves if we don't take action?
    Now, one day, a girl has an idea that will change the world. A small and unattractive girl, who looks strangely like a frog. In fact, a girl from those miserable Andriod/iOS owning classes, who live in squalor in the poorest, most derelict quarters of our fine city. Being from such a background, she understands these people, knows how they think and what makes them act in such a bizarre and inexplicable manner. She knows that they don't love Windows! Now, good people, you will find it hard to imagine that such a lack of adoration is possible in the human mind - surely the result of some horrible sickness! But nevertheless it is true. And this girl, my friends, knows how to save these people from themselves. In a blinding vision she realises how to help them, how to drag them from the darkness and into the light. How to end their wretchedness! She knows, my friends, that these people do love X-box. Even their warped and damaged consciousness cannot deny the glory of X-box. And this girl, this small and feeble girl, knows that the piteous masses would buy Windows Phones if only they were called X-box phones instead.
    Well, my good friends, what a moment. Surely the crowning hour of human achievement, as finally we rise above the animals and move ourselves closer to God. Saint Steve immediately changes the name, and within weeks (as soon, in fact, as the factories can make them), those oppressed masses have X-box phones. And thus, suffering in the world is ended and humankind lives in harmony, under the eternal summer sky, in a Garden of Eden where no-one is without their X-box phone, even for a moment.

    My friends, how can you tell me that such a glorious vision can be untrue?
    09-27-2013 05:21 AM
  23. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I'm not asking you to take me seriously. Indeed I'm 'blowing hot air' (whatever that means). I just wanted someone to respond the point I was making!

    Now, I'm hoping that we can have an interesting discussion - maybe we learn something and hopefully we have some fun. I'd be very interested if you have numbers to back up your assertions - if you do we can test my idea and see if it makes any sense. Otherwise we are both just 'blowing hot air'.

    Here is your two points in order -

    1. Make cheap Windows Phones to seed the market.
    2. Drop the Windows name because it has negative connotations.

    Answer:

    1. This is already being done and the 520 is the most popular selling WP.

    2. You have no evidence this is true. You used your personal experience with Windows OS. You haven't indicated any experience using WP and brought in Android into the discussion which had absolutely no baring on the conversation.

    To top it off you then claim that you have 'personal observations' that people don't like the Windows name. Where this observation comes from you haven't indicated.

    There isn't any research into brands that I was able to find online (mostly personal opinions) but I would guess that MS must have done some research otherwise they wouldn't have used the Windows name. If you find anything lets hope it's not an online poll as those are not valid.

    My point about apps is something I've said before on this forum. I personally could care less about some apps but they are important to the overall appeal of WP and it's image. My point about negative aspects is that we have one large company, Google, refusing to make apps for WP and then we have the most popular photo sharing app doing the same thing, Instagram. Now we have 3rd party apps for these services but it's not the same and the image of not having these types of apps is a blight to WP. Image is important, not the name. If WP had all the apps available that iOS and Android had then it would be interesting to see what the situation would be. However the apps situation on WP is still in it's growing stage and both iOS and Android have had a few years head start. Also Android only got more popular recently. There are still many apps on iOS not on Android. What needs to be fixed on WP is the image of being third or last. It needs to sort out the issues with app developers and it needs to fix the bugs on the OS and hardware. Keep in mind all OS and hardware have bugs.

    So that's my point. So if you can clarify your points it would be appreciated. Until you can provide a more in depth information I don't see a need in discussing this further.
    09-27-2013 05:26 AM
  24. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Here is your two points in order -

    1. Make cheap Windows Phones to seed the market.
    2. Drop the Windows name because it has negative connotations.

    Answer:

    1. This is already being done and the 520 is the most popular selling WP.
    Indeed. So my idea is a good one, yes? It would be nice to see some more cheap phones. I was extremely tempted to buy a 520. The biggest problem for me was that they are only available in stupid colours (in my city). I hope someone will make a Windows Phone for 150 euros that doesn't look ridiculous. That's just my personal opinion, of course.

    2. You have no evidence this is true. You used your personal experience with Windows OS. You haven't indicated any experience using WP and brought in Android into the discussion which had absolutely no baring on the conversation.
    Why does Android have no bearing on the conversation? Shouldn't we try to learn from more successful ecosystems? What does my experience of using WP have to do with it? In fact, I would postulate that someone who hasn't used WP is better qualified than you to say how to increase WP's market share, because they are the people we need to appeal to!

    To top it off you then claim that you have 'personal observations' that people don't like the Windows name. Where this observation comes from you haven't indicated.
    Isn't the term 'personal observations' clear enough? Then I apologise. I meant things that I have personally observed. What are your personal observations on this matter?

    There isn't any research into brands that I was able to find online (mostly personal opinions) but I would guess that MS must have done some research otherwise they wouldn't have used the Windows name. If you find anything lets hope it's not an online poll as those are not valid.
    So, we are both in the same position - making claims without evidence.

    My point about apps is something I've said before on this forum. I personally could care less about some apps but they are important to the overall appeal of WP and it's image. My point about negative aspects is that we have one large company, Google, refusing to make apps for WP and then we have the most popular photo sharing app doing the same thing, Instagram. Now we have 3rd party apps for these services but it's not the same and the image of not having these types of apps is a blight to WP. Image is important, not the name. If WP had all the apps available that iOS and Android had then it would be interesting to see what the situation would be. However the apps situation on WP is still in it's growing stage and both iOS and Android have had a few years head start. Also Android only got more popular recently. There are still many apps on iOS not on Android. What needs to be fixed on WP is the image of being third or last. It needs to sort out the issues with app developers and it needs to fix the bugs on the OS and hardware. Keep in mind all OS and hardware have bugs.
    I assume this is referring to my third idea - to move WP over to the Android codebase. Correct? Well, there are pros and cons to that, as discussed in another thread. To be honest, I'm losing the will to argue about that one - gets too technical. So, I agree to drop it. Please forget about it - a truly terrible idea. You win on that one - well done!

    So that's my point. So if you can clarify your points it would be appreciated. Until you can provide a more in depth information I don't see a need in discussing this further.
    I'm not sure what clarification you need on my points? Please ask specific questions, then I can answer.
    09-27-2013 05:41 AM
  25. martinmc78's Avatar
    In which post did I say that?
    Post #39 - you brushed my opinion off because it was subjective in order to put across an opinion of you own - also subjective.

    Also you cannot have an interesting and enlightening discussion when you continually rebuff anyone else's opinion in place of your own and circle jerk around questions directed at you with questions of your own in order to incite further reaction.

    I'm not even going to bother reading that wall of text either. You wasted 10 minutes of your life at what I can only assume is your attempt at sarcasm.

    Maybe you could have saved that time and used it more constructively by booting up your work computer
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    09-27-2013 05:51 AM
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