10-01-2013 03:57 PM
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  1. Pete's Avatar
    This link?

    Apple iPhone Sales: The Real Numbers Behind Tim Cook's Misleading Chart Displayed At The iPhone 5S, 5C Unveiling

    As the chart shows, quarterly sales of the iPhone have declined over the previous quarters. It is worth noting, however, that Apple sold 31.2 million iPhones in Q3 2013, which is up from 26 million in the year-ago quarter.
    The chart is at best a data visualization failure. At worst, its very misleading about Apples sales situation.
    The stock market was not fooled. After the event, Apple shares fell nearly 2 percent to close at $494. In pre-marketing trading Wednesday morning, stock fell another 5 percent to close at $467, with analysts citing investor disappointment in the iPhone 5C as a primary reason.
    montsa007 likes this.
    09-27-2013 05:56 AM
  2. martinmc78's Avatar
    Evidence please. And importantly, is the same true for the 5m figure for the iPhone 5? We need to know whether these figures are comparable, as that will help us judge whether Apple are shrinking or not.
    May not help us so much with the question about whether they know it, though.
    I haven't got time to go searching for it but I do remember reading about it Tuesday. Although I have seen numerous reports on sales figures some are basing figures on activations, others on shipping numbers, others include orders placed that wont arrive for another month, some combine the sales of the two devices others don't.

    There's no denying they sold a lot and with two devices broke previous records. Bottom line is all those 5C buyers got ripped off.
    montsa007 and xandros9 like this.
    09-27-2013 06:08 AM
  3. montsa007's Avatar
    I haven't got time to go searching for it but I do remember reading about it Tuesday. Although I have seen numerous reports on sales figures some are basing figures on activations, others on shipping numbers, others include orders placed that wont arrive for another month, some combine the sales of the two devices others don't.

    There's no denying they sold a lot and with two devices broke previous records. Bottom line is all those 5C buyers got ripped off.
    Only because I love you for the fact that you are a mutant dressed user (in a good way, and I have some spare time before I sign off for the day), let me do the hard work for you,

    Apple's "Cumulative iPhone Sales" chart is spinning data hard
    What Was Tim Cook Trying to Prove With This Meaningless Chart?
    • Apple iPhone: global sales 2007-2013, by quarter | Statistic
    Cumulative iPhone sales chart
    Yawn: Apple Launches New iPhones & Other Stuff
    Opening weekend iPhone 5s, 5c sales may have been split 50-50, insider says
    Apple Downgraded Or Estimates Lowered By BofA Merrill Lynch, Credit Suisse, Piper Jaffray And UBS - Forbes

    I feel 5 users got ripped, buy a phone and next year its discontinued while its older models continue, wait hey, aint all iphone users being ripped?
    N_LaRUE and martinmc78 like this.
    09-27-2013 06:17 AM
  4. thomas wojcik's Avatar
    09-27-2013 06:59 AM
  5. dkediger's Avatar
    Indeed - Im just waiting for someone to find that link from an analyst firm that called out the 9million weekend sales as false. Something about 9million was the figure sold to carriers not the actual consumer sales figures which were apparently closer to 5.5million
    These are the links I believe everyone's looking for:
    How many iPhones did Apple sell last weekend? Analysts dispute the numbers | The Verge
    Apple Actually Only Sold 5.5 Million iPhones During Opening Weekend, Says Gene Munster - Business Insider
    Apple's 9 million weekend: What the analysts are saying - Apple 2.0 -Fortune Tech
    Analysis Of Previous iPhone's And iPad's Channel Inventory - Forbes

    TLDR: The iPhone5s sold out, so you can trust that what Apple reported as sales are actually on the streets walking around as activated phones. The 5c is different though, as there is plenty of inventory available, and the 9M represents units sold to Carriers, then what is actually on the streets - what most normal people consider a "sale" - is something less than 9M. Most analysts put that number as 2-3M still sitting on carrier's shelves, making the true sold-through number roughly 6-7M. Still impressive and a record for Apple, but also a first in that they overbuilt for initial demand.
    montsa007, Pete and martinmc78 like this.
    09-27-2013 09:19 AM
  6. dkediger's Avatar
    And a comment on cumulative sales charts -
    If you are increasing sales, either through new customers or replacement units, the chart will have a geometric curve. Even if there would be a no- sales period on the x-axis segment, a cumulative chart only goes flat - it never takes a downslope.

    This link was included in montsa007's post above, but it really illustrates the difference in a cumulative vs point to point graph:
    What Was Tim Cook Trying to Prove With This Meaningless Chart?

    From that article, this pic illustrates the data behind the cumulative graph:

    l7z82k9.png
    montsa007 likes this.
    09-27-2013 09:41 AM
  7. montsa007's Avatar
    Just some more garnishing on the dish,

    iPhone 5c Channel Fill Helped Apple To Report Nine Million Units Sold - Forbes

    The Company (Apple) recognizes revenue when persuasive evidence of an arrangement exists, delivery has occurred, the sales price is fixed or determinable, and collection is probable. Product is considered delivered to the customer once it has been shipped and title and risk of loss have been transferred. For most of the Company’s product sales, these criteria are met at the time the product is shipped. For online sales to individuals, for some sales to education customers in the U.S., and for certain other sales, the Company defers revenue until the customer receives the product because the Company retains a portion of the risk of loss on these sales during transit.
    It seems like a small thing, but it is important to keep in mind when evaluating the mobile market, especially as it matures and multiple sales channels are employed. In order to present the clearest possible picture of how demand for Apple’s products stands in relation to its competitors, we will be referring to Apple’s announced numbers as “shipped” from now on

    Please read Apples latest 10-k filing, specifically end of page 26 last para, its on their own website
    Apple Inc. - Financial History

    What Apple really means when it says it has “sold” a product — Tech News and Analysis
    -----


    The data still shows an impressive result for Apple: about 400 million iPhones sold in total since the product line’s introduction. But the whole picture is far less positive. As we all know, iPhone sales have declined over the last three quarters and, if the slight drop in the slope at the tip of the chart is reflective of actual sales, Apple will again reveal another decline during its fourth fiscal quarter report at the end of October.

    Another issue with the chart is that it hides important realities about Apple’s customer base and the number of iPhones still in use. There’s no question that Apple CEO Tim Cook wanted to present an impression that the company’s iPhone is “on the rise,” both in terms of hardware sales and customers. While the company is adding likely millions of new customers every month, the chart hides the fact that many of those cumulative iPhone sales went to existing customers who either upgraded to a new model or replaced an existing model due to loss or damage.

    Related to upgrades and replacements, the chart also hides the fact that many millions of units are no longer in service, having been sent to landfills or otherwise destroyed.


    ----

    I hope it clears some fog off the road.
    Last edited by montsa007; 09-27-2013 at 10:04 AM.
    squire777 likes this.
    09-27-2013 09:41 AM
  8. thomas wojcik's Avatar
    Numbers can be made to reflect many different things. However a couple things that are clear today are Apple isn't doing too bad, Microsoft\Nokia need to get their act together, and the people in this forum are using the 3rd best phone platform. But the majority of us don't care, we just like our windows phones. Who is Tim Cook?
    09-27-2013 12:31 PM
  9. montsa007's Avatar
    Numbers can be made to reflect many different things. However a couple things that are clear today are Apple isn't doing too bad, Microsoft\Nokia need to get their act together, and the people in this forum are using the 3rd best phone platform. But the majority of us don't care, we just like our windows phones. Who is Tim Cook?
    A Crook.
    09-27-2013 12:37 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    Numbers can be made to reflect many different things. However a couple things that are clear today are Apple isn't doing too bad, Microsoft\Nokia need to get their act together, and the people in this forum are using the 3rd best phone platform. But the majority of us don't care, we just like our windows phones. Who is Tim Cook?
    Agreed, Apple isn't doing too bad. 8.7 million WPs were sold in Q2 2013, approximately the number of iPhones sold, or at least shipped, last weekend, give or take.
    montsa007 and FinancialP like this.
    09-27-2013 12:49 PM
  11. Manu Tyagi's Avatar
    What is the junk market?

    Yes that's true. Maybe Apple will indeed go the way of Nokia. Do you think the current sales numbers suggest this?

    Is that important?

    Well, WP does seem to be growing faster than Apple, but surely Android is eating iOS market share much more quickly?
    For junk market ask the man(Tim Cook) who said it..

    Even Nokia's Sales figure never showed it was going down..

    and yes it is IMPORTANT...

    Android grew on the market share of Symbian not of iOS..and still is eating that..rate of increase from 46 to 47 (Android) is slow compared to increase from 1 to 4(WP)
    09-28-2013 01:20 AM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    Android grew on the market share of Symbian not of iOS..and still is eating that..rate of increase from 46 to 47 (Android) is slow compared to increase from 1 to 4(WP)
    The reason that WP's growth looks so massive is because of its relatively tiny numbers. It makes the percentage impressive. But let's look at sheer numbers: from Q2 2012 to Q2 2013, Android's sales went up from around 100 million to 180 million. WP's sales rose from 5 million to 8.7 million. Android's growth YoY was almost 10x WP's total sales in Q2 2013. Staggering percentage growth for WP, but the real numbers are much less impressive.

    And to be fair, Android's YoY growth was 73%, compared to WP's 77%. Not much difference. I'm sure Microsoft would love to trade!
    FinancialP likes this.
    09-28-2013 07:12 AM
  13. montsa007's Avatar
    I wonder now if Tim Cooks stopped making payments and monitoring the thread as tables have turned and the cat is out of the bag :/
    09-28-2013 11:23 AM
  14. dgr_874's Avatar
    I wonder now if Tim Cooks stopped making payments and monitoring the thread as tables have turned and the cat is out of the bag :/
    A Crook.
    If this is how a WPcentral "Ambassador" treats those he disagrees with, i don't know if I want to be part of this community any more...
    09-30-2013 08:50 PM
  15. montsa007's Avatar
    If this is how a WPcentral "Ambassador" treats those he disagrees with, i don't know if I want to be part of this community any more...
    I'd really be happy if you read the 'entire' thread before drawing conclusions :)
    Also Tim Crooks is a person - Tim Crooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    09-30-2013 11:38 PM
  16. dgr_874's Avatar
    I'd really be happy if you read the 'entire' thread before drawing conclusions :)
    Also Tim Crooks is a person - Tim Crooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I did read the entire thing and I'm still disgusted with the PERSONAL attacks that seem to be happening more and more here. I almost think I'm back on an Apple forum again.
    FinancialP likes this.
    10-01-2013 08:17 AM
  17. WinFan1's Avatar
    Check out the market dude: iPhones 5s and 5c sell 9m in record weekend as Apple shrugs off doubters | Technology | The Guardian
    I'm not here to defend Apple, but those numbers are good.



    Please provide evidence that Apple say they are the first to do phones in different colours.
    And I'm sick of reading about the iPhone 5S and 5C - they certain are generating a lot of hype.



    What is the junk market?



    Yes that's true. Maybe Apple will indeed go the way of Nokia. Do you think the current sales numbers suggest this?



    Is that important?



    Well, WP does seem to be growing faster than Apple, but surely Android is eating iOS market share much more quickly?
    wouldn't you at least agree that those numbers are largely repeat buyers?
    10-01-2013 09:54 AM
  18. WinFan1's Avatar
    Personally I feel that it is dishonest that apple would sell what is essentially an iPhone 5 in a different housing to unsuspecting and uninformed consumers to make a new buck.
    10-01-2013 09:59 AM
  19. ikissfutebol's Avatar
    At first I read your username as 'annoy_mouse', nvm here's the sales chart, as opposed to the cumulative sales chart.

    The innovation they do, is another big story.

    http://d35lb3dl296zwu.cloudfront.net...85/LB_7986.jpg

    @anon_mouse, they did give support right here. The cumulative chart has an inflection point (actually a couple) meaning that they are decreasing the rate of growth. This has been going on since about 2012.

    If you look, the points where the graph is making more of a cup in appearance shows that they are increasing at increasing rate. When it is like the left side of an upside cup, it means they are selling phones at a slower rate than the whole. This actually corresponds rather well to the stock price trends, too. I realize most journalists never took calculus, but it is actually a sign of slowing growth. Of course, Apple uses fancy charts and numbers to wow English majors.
    10-01-2013 10:13 AM
  20. squire777's Avatar
    I didn't realize Tim Cook was a member here
    10-01-2013 11:17 AM
  21. falconeight's Avatar
    Why are we playing the fanboy game. This OS and site deserves better. Apple right now is the industry leader. Saying otherwise is like walking around with your arse hanging out of your overalls. Its ok to love WP8, nokia, and microsoft but come one guys this thread is stupid.
    JonnieLasVegas likes this.
    10-01-2013 12:44 PM
  22. irvin792's Avatar
    Why are we playing the fanboy game. This OS and site deserves better. Apple right now is the industry leader. Saying otherwise is like walking around with your arse hanging out of your overalls. Its ok to love WP8, nokia, and microsoft but come one guys this thread is stupid.
    apple sucks, but that's just my opinion and only reason I posted it right now was to be an arse hanging out of overalls :P
    10-01-2013 01:06 PM
  23. etad putta's Avatar
    apple sucks, but that's just my opinion and only reason I posted it right now was to be an arse hanging out of overalls :P
    Great story, compelling and rich.
    10-01-2013 01:19 PM
  24. montsa007's Avatar
    @anon_mouse, they did give support right here. The cumulative chart has an inflection point (actually a couple) meaning that they are decreasing the rate of growth. This has been going on since about 2012.

    If you look, the points where the graph is making more of a cup in appearance shows that they are increasing at increasing rate. When it is like the left side of an upside cup, it means they are selling phones at a slower rate than the whole. This actually corresponds rather well to the stock price trends, too. I realize most journalists never took calculus, but it is actually a sign of slowing growth. Of course, Apple uses fancy charts and numbers to wow English majors.
    The most funny part is, he (anony_mouse) was demanding loads of answers, and when answers started to appear in bulk, he's nowhere to be seen ;).
    Imagine someone responding to your answers with fresh questions in like 5 minutes after you post something, and when facts start coming up, there are no questions.
    10-01-2013 01:35 PM
  25. etad putta's Avatar
    So much effort being put into hating apple, really who cares one way or another? It seems some people must have been made to look foolish by an apple user sometime in their life. It's ok. Put the past behind everyone and just enjoy your device. Hey we all could go over to apple someday, who knows?
    10-01-2013 02:46 PM
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