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10-26-2013 05:16 PM
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  1. Dirtrot's Avatar
    I need honest answers please. I finally will have enough money to get a new phone off contract. My choices will be, Nokia 929 or soney experia z1. Now I love my 820 and am happy lately with the way ms is going with WP. My problem is as a Zune owner and seeing what happened to wp7, is there a chance 2 years from now will ms get rid of the wp8 firmwear for something else. My Zune is dead because they changed the way they code ms firmware and I'm assuming wp7 will soon follow. Now I know with android alot of time you can keep upgrading to the new firmware via xda. But ms seems that's not possible. I'm just worried that when windows 9 or windows blue come out soon the phone I will buy will become obsolete. Opinions...and thanks for your honesty.
    10-24-2013 07:18 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I need honest answers please. I finally will have enough money to get a new phone off contract. My choices will be, Nokia 929 or soney experia z1. Now I love my 820 and am happy lately with the way ms is going with WP. My problem is as a Zune owner and seeing what happened to wp7, is there a chance 2 years from now will ms get rid of the wp8 firmwear for something else. My Zune is dead because they changed the way they code ms firmware and I'm assuming wp7 will soon follow. Now I know with android alot of time you can keep upgrading to the new firmware via xda. But ms seems that's not possible. I'm just worried that when windows 9 or windows blue come out soon the phone I will buy will become obsolete. Opinions...and thanks for your honesty.
    Here's the question to ask yourself and this goes for computers as well. What does obsolete mean to you? Does it mean only not upgrading to the latest OS? Or does it come down to what you can do with it?

    Everything has a shelf life but in the case of electronics it has to do more with the end user rather than anything else. If you want the latest and greatest you need to typically upgrade hardware on the way. That's the reality.

    Will my L920 get W9? Personally I don't care as long as I can keep using my phone until I'm ready to move on. That's how I see it.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 10-25-2013 at 01:53 AM.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-24-2013 07:38 AM
  3. jedpatrickdatu's Avatar
    I feel the same way. I also have a strong feeling that next year, Microsoft is going to release another update that is not compatible with old devices. There are already rumors of Windows Phone 9 being totally new and cloud-based like Chrome OS. Microsoft is currently unstable and is changing a lot of things because of their major reorganization happening right now.

    If updates are very important to you, then it might be best to stay away from Windows Phone for now and stick with the Xperia Z1. But if you really want a Windows phone, buy one that's released about a year from now, when the reorganization is over. Or, you could wait for Microsoft's first range of phones. I'm sure Microsoft would want their own devices to not go obsolete too quickly.

    Good luck and I hope you buy the phone that's right for you!
    10-24-2013 07:57 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I feel the same way. I also have a strong feeling that next year, Microsoft is going to release another update that is not compatible with old devices. There are already rumors of Windows Phone 9 being totally new and cloud-based like Chrome OS. Microsoft is currently unstable and is changing a lot of things because of their major reorganization happening right now.
    I'd love to know where you get your insider information from. Is there an actual reputable source to that?
    a5cent, BIGPADDY and xandros9 like this.
    10-24-2013 08:12 AM
  5. iBandar's Avatar
    I feel the same way. I also have a strong feeling that next year, Microsoft is going to release another update that is not compatible with old devices. There are already rumors of Windows Phone 9 being totally new and cloud-based like Chrome OS. Microsoft is currently unstable and is changing a lot of things because of their major reorganization happening right now.

    If updates are very important to you, then it might be best to stay away from Windows Phone for now and stick with the Xperia Z1. But if you really want a Windows phone, buy one that's released about a year from now, when the reorganization is over. Or, you could wait for Microsoft's first range of phones. I'm sure Microsoft would want their own devices to not go obsolete too quickly.

    Good luck and I hope you buy the phone that's right for you!
    lol what?

    @ OP WP7 to WP8 was change in kernel, so WP8 Apps are not compatible. That will never be the case now since WP8 is capable of running on 64 cores I think (correct me if I am wrong) They showed the actual number during WP8 reveal. Anyways, so from now on its safe to assume that software will be upgradable just like iOS and Android (BUT as obvious reason, features will be missing due to new hardware changes that may come in future).

    But you will not have to worry about new apps not running on your WP8 devices (with exception of if the app demands certain hardware requirement).
    10-24-2013 08:22 AM
  6. ttsoldier's Avatar
    This topic has been discussed many times on the forums.

    Have a go at the search button.
    xandros9 and BIGPADDY like this.
    10-24-2013 08:28 AM
  7. jedpatrickdatu's Avatar
    Rumor pegs Windows 9 release for next year, Windows 10 as a cloud OS | Microsoft | Geek.com

    It's not really reputable and it's just a rumor, but it doesn't sound like something someone would make up. I also made a mistake - it's Windows 10 that's supposed to be very different and cloud based. I'm sure Windows Phone 10 would follow suit if this plan turns out to be real.
    10-24-2013 08:38 AM
  8. gsquared's Avatar
    I feel the same way. I also have a strong feeling that next year, Microsoft is going to release another update that is not compatible with old devices. There are already rumors of Windows Phone 9 being totally new and cloud-based like Chrome OS. Microsoft is currently unstable and is changing a lot of things because of their major reorganization happening right now.

    If updates are very important to you, then it might be best to stay away from Windows Phone for now and stick with the Xperia Z1. But if you really want a Windows phone, buy one that's released about a year from now, when the reorganization is over. Or, you could wait for Microsoft's first range of phones. I'm sure Microsoft would want their own devices to not go obsolete too quickly.

    Good luck and I hope you buy the phone that's right for you!
    As with N_LaRUE, I call BS..
    a5cent likes this.
    10-24-2013 08:47 AM
  9. Dirtrot's Avatar
    Thanks guys and gals, the kernal reply was what I needed to hear same with the 64 bit. Having 5 kids dosnt leave alot of time to search the forums this will help my decision allot specially when there is a good community like this
    10-24-2013 08:51 AM
  10. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Rumor pegs Windows 9 release for next year, Windows 10 as a cloud OS | Microsoft | Geek.com

    It's not really reputable and it's just a rumor, but it doesn't sound like something someone would make up. I also made a mistake - it's Windows 10 that's supposed to be very different and cloud based. I'm sure Windows Phone 10 would follow suit if this plan turns out to be real.
    Allow me to correct some things here and enlighten you some.

    1st - the OP was asking about WP not Windows. So your information was incorrect to begin with.
    2nd - The 'source' at that link heard it by a third person. So it's a rumour of a rumour. That puts it in the toilet and should be flushed.

    We all know that MS likes cloud computing but we also know it likes money. They will not **** off their largest money making source, better known as enterprise. No company of any size will go for full on cloud computing in the next 2-3 years. Not going to happen.

    I'd like to point out Chrome OS....oh yes, very few people pay attention to it or use it.

    Now lastly a history lesson for you. Way back in the early 90s, yeah I'm showing my age, I actually worked on a mainframe computer. If you don't know what that is, think of cloud computing. Same concept. Servers will all the software and you just having a 'terminal' to the servers.

    Personally I hated mainframes. I know there's a lot of IT admins would find the idea simpler for them but at the end of the day, the change in infrastructure would be immense. Also some software I use I have a hard time believing would work in that situation. Great if all you're doing is shuffling documents around, not good if you're working in a 3D environment.

    Lastly, I see no way a cloud based OS would work well in a mobile phone with our current infrastructure. It would be a very bad experience and a very big mistake for MS to even think of something like that. They would go bankrupt in a hurry.
    unnatixlr8 likes this.
    10-24-2013 09:04 AM
  11. jedpatrickdatu's Avatar
    Good points. I myself am against the idea of a cloud OS. But if this plan really did push through with Windows 10, Windows Phone 10 would surely get the same treatment, since MS wants their OS's unified.

    Then again, this rumor isn't that strong, so it's likely not come true.
    10-24-2013 09:10 AM
  12. ohgood's Avatar
    I need honest answers please. I finally will have enough money to get a new phone off contract. My choices will be, Nokia 929 or soney experia z1. Now I love my 820 and am happy lately with the way ms is going with WP. My problem is as a Zune owner and seeing what happened to wp7, is there a chance 2 years from now will ms get rid of the wp8 firmwear for something else. My Zune is dead because they changed the way they code ms firmware and I'm assuming wp7 will soon follow. Now I know with android alot of time you can keep upgrading to the new firmware via xda. But ms seems that's not possible. I'm just worried that when windows 9 or windows blue come out soon the phone I will buy will become obsolete. Opinions...and thanks for your honesty.
    As much as I hate to recommend an iPhone, it would serve you better long term than an android or wp device at this point.

    The future of Nokia, it's support, and wp are not solidly understood just yet. If when wp9 is released, yes it could be wm, kin, zune, or wp7 all over again.
    10-24-2013 09:10 AM
  13. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    As much as I hate to recommend an iPhone, it would serve you better long term than an android or wp device at this point.

    The future of Nokia, it's support, and wp are not solidly understood just yet. If when wp9 is released, yes it could be wm, kin, zune, or wp7 all over again.
    What are you talking about? Nokia is/was an OEM. Has nothing to do with the OS. Mobile phones progress. This is the reality. I wish people would understand this concept. You'll have an upgrade path of some sort and that's it. Hardware can only go so far. The actual OS is NT based. This isn't changing any time soon.

    As someone has already pointed out this has been discussed to death. As I pointed out, what is obsolete to you?
    10-24-2013 09:32 AM
  14. Torch4x4's Avatar
    Consider this, you can upgrade the OS of an old computer running WinXP to Vista, then 7, then 8, then 8.1 because all of these OS's are based on the same Windows NT kernel, but later or soon you will need a better hardware, the same will happen with the WP8 because also is based on the same NT Kernel (but WP7 cannot be upgraded because is using the Windows CE kernel, that was used in old windows mobile versions)
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    10-24-2013 10:34 AM
  15. Dirtrot's Avatar
    My concern was I want to buy a 929, and if 2 years from now there's a new kernal or Ms doesn't use nt anymore I'm out. didn't want to have to buy another phone after 2 years. I understand hardware issues its just ms has been behind and their rapidly moving forward I was looking for opinons from the techs out there if they felt wp8 kernal\nt would be around for awhile. Like to get 3 years at least out of a phone :)
    10-24-2013 02:50 PM
  16. wapoz's Avatar
    Another week, another one of these "Is WP doomed?" threads.
    10-24-2013 02:54 PM
  17. ohgood's Avatar
    What are you talking about? Nokia is/was an OEM. Has nothing to do with the OS. Mobile phones progress. This is the reality. I wish people would understand this concept. You'll have an upgrade path of some sort and that's it. Hardware can only go so far. The actual OS is NT based. This isn't changing any time soon.

    As someone has already pointed out this has been discussed to death. As I pointed out, what is obsolete to you?
    I have no proof wp9 will run on today's hardware.
    I have no proof all the wp9 apps will work on wp8 devices, or that wp9 will either.

    If you have current proof of future software releases supporting today's devices, please share.

    The list I gave of abandoned OSs is a guide, through history, of possible futures.

    When a phone cannot be updated to the current software provided by the original software vender, it is obsolete to developers.

    On the other hand, the hacking communities do neat things with 'obsolete' hardware. If it's possible to keep a device alive, through software updates, that's a big plus, to me.
    10-24-2013 03:52 PM
  18. Jerry A's Avatar
    My concern was I want to buy a 929, and if 2 years from now there's a new kernal or Ms doesn't use nt anymore I'm out. didn't want to have to buy another phone after 2 years. I understand hardware issues its just ms has been behind and their rapidly moving forward I was looking for opinons from the techs out there if they felt wp8 kernal\nt would be around for awhile. Like to get 3 years at least out of a phone :)



    But that concern exists with any phone. There are quite a number of Android phones that will never run anything beyond Gingerbread. Those vendors have a horrible track-record of updates.

    Sure, someone may have hacked CM9/10 on them and then they couldn't run reliably because the device can't keep up.

    Ditto with iPhone (although) not as bad. Updates usually meant missing features for older phones. With very old models not being supported.

    This is all due to the fact that the hardware in our hands isn't upgradeable and is designed with a 2 year lifespan. They aren't desktops.

    And this issue exists for all the platforms, not just Windows Phones.
    10-24-2013 03:56 PM
  19. ohgood's Avatar
    But that concern exists with any phone. There are quite a number of Android phones that will never run anything beyond Gingerbread. Those vendors have a horrible track-record of updates.

    Sure, someone may have hacked CM9/10 on them and then they couldn't run reliably because the device can't keep up.

    Ditto with iPhone (although) not as bad. Updates usually meant missing features for older phones. With very old models not being supported.

    This is all due to the fact that the hardware in our hands isn't upgradeable and is designed with a 2 year lifespan. They aren't desktops.

    And this issue exists for all the platforms, not just Windows Phones.
    Agreed, partially. I have a (first gen android) that ran fine, as a GPS/ Bluetooth filesharing (gpx/kml/kmz) route server, and GPS tracker a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't want to try using Google earth with it, but for an emergency line, or GPS work, it's fine. The possibility of updating the OS is there.

    Again, I have no proof that wp9 will run on today's hardware, our anyone will attempt to heck it into place either. :)
    10-24-2013 04:30 PM
  20. davebolton's Avatar
    I have seen some really well thought out opinions here but my reaction is that one point left out is that for both WP and Android, the state of upgrades is in the hands of the carriers. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. That is the reason that my HTC Trophy never got the update from 7.5 to 7.8. (Thanks, Verizon!). That is one of the things that Apple has going for it. As long as this is the case, and I expect it to be for the foreseeable future, then the possibility of any current hardware being upgraded to the latest OS will only happen when it benefits the carrier. When any phone reaches the end of its life and is no longer sold, don't hold your breath waiting for that update to become available. And then it will be time to buy a new phone which is supported. That's my opinion. Can't say I'm too happy about it though.
    10-24-2013 04:32 PM
  21. ohgood's Avatar
    I have seen some really well thought out opinions here but my reaction is that one point left out is that for both WP and Android, the state of upgrades is in the hands of the carriers. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. That is the reason that my HTC Trophy never got the update from 7.5 to 7.8. (Thanks, Verizon!). That is one of the things that Apple has going for it. As long as this is the case, and I expect it to be for the foreseeable future, then the possibility of any current hardware being upgraded to the latest OS will only happen when it benefits the carrier. When any phone reaches the end of its life and is no longer sold, don't hold your breath waiting for that update to become available. And then it will be time to buy a new phone which is supported. That's my opinion. Can't say I'm too happy about it though.
    You're absolutely right. In the beginning, wp7 was promised to be operated like iOS, the carriers would not be allowed to interfere for more than one update. Then it changed. Now.... Well I dunno.

    It's possible that when Nokia is brought under roof, ms could finally make it all in one with no interference, but that's s long way off , and won't effect today's handsets.

    With android you can build the sources if you care, and have the energy.... But downloading a cm room is so much easier.

    The ops question was very good, I appreciate the insights in answers.
    10-24-2013 06:42 PM
  22. Panathas's Avatar
    Don't think too much about it. If you like a phone, buy it. You buy a product cause you like the features it has NOW. MS will not make a change like the WP7/WP8 change again in the next years, that would be their end in mobile market. WP8.1 comes to old devices, so you will have at least 1,5 years from now the newest OS.
    But if you consider to buy an Android cause of the updates, you have to go with the Nexus, all other devices will not become updates much longer than the actual Lumia devices become.
    So:
    -If you want a crap camera and the newest software -> Buy a Nexus
    -If you want a nice device with a superb. camera -> Buy a Lumia
    10-25-2013 06:33 AM
  23. Jerry A's Avatar
    You're absolutely right. In the beginning, wp7 was promised to be operated like iOS, the carriers would not be allowed to interfere for more than one update. Then it changed. Now.... Well I dunno.

    It's possible that when Nokia is brought under roof, ms could finally make it all in one with no interference, but that's s long way off , and won't effect today's handsets.

    With android you can build the sources if you care, and have the energy.... But downloading a cm room is so much easier.

    The ops question was very good, I appreciate the insights in answers.
    This is however and unfair comparison - vendor support v. a public community. Of which, there's no guarantee. Plenty of CM devices lag in proper support because a lone developer has stopped working on a particular port.

    At least Microsoft has given us a way to install updates without the carriers or vendor support.
    10-25-2013 01:02 PM
  24. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    OP it all depends how long you think you will use the phone before upgrading. Android phones can be upgraded through 3rd party firmware even after official updates have stopped, but even those will eventually stop due to hardware limitations of the device. I may be wrong but I think the 3rd party firmwares that are available are based on official ROMs so eventually drivers won't work for older devices with newer releases of Android. It may be possible for example to use a video driver from Gingerbread with Ice Cream Sandwich but not with Jellybean.

    If WP continues to gain market share then I can't see MS breaking compatibility and switching to something different. The reason they did so with WP7 was it had practically no market share. If WP7 had sold well and made strong gains with consumers they would not have made switch IMO

    Trying to see beyond a year with any tech is just a guess. If I was to recommend a mobile OS to a family member today who was looking at using it for at least 3 years I would tell them to get an iPhone. IMO iPhone is a cleaner more unified experience then Android is today, has lots of apps, and should at least get one or 2 official updates if not more.
    10-25-2013 03:51 PM
  25. ohgood's Avatar
    OP it all depends how long you think you will use the phone before upgrading. Android phones can be upgraded through 3rd party firmware even after official updates have stopped, but even those will eventually stop due to hardware limitations of the device. I may be wrong but I think the 3rd party firmwares that are available are based on official ROMs so eventually drivers won't work for older devices with newer releases of Android. It may be possible for example to use a video driver from Gingerbread with Ice Cream Sandwich but not with Jellybean.

    If WP continues to gain market share then I can't see MS breaking compatibility and switching to something different. The reason they did so with WP7 was it had practically no market share. If WP7 had sold well and made strong gains with consumers they would not have made switch IMO

    .
    First part, I have a T-Mobile g1. The first Google phone. I can download a custom ruin ( poor spelling correction left in place as it's appropriately funny sometimes, with some ROMs ) and be up and running current stuff in only 30 minutes or so... Maybe. The only limitation for asps in the market are the new hardware that old phone is lacking, like nfc, higher end cameras, etc.That's a pretty long run in the world of mobile.


    Second part, so what is preventing another switch, to say rt, and then back to x86, tomorrow ?
    10-26-2013 05:41 AM
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