11-03-2013 11:34 PM
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  1. skinnypig118's Avatar
    Well, now that the competition's heavy guns are all laid out on the table, I'd have to ask: What is Nokia's answer to iPhone 5s and Nexus 5 this holiday season?

    If you're on Verizon, it may be the Lumia 929 (though it's still just a rumour). But what about the rest of us?
    The 1520? I would say no; it's a phablet so it's not a flagship device, and its size makes it unappealing to a majority of people
    The 1020? But that is just a refresh of the 920 with a better camera and extra RAM. To people who are not photo-buffs, it doesn't offer much over the 920 (not to mention it loses built-in wireless charging)

    I hope Nokia still has some surprise up its sleeves, It's hard to imagine they would want to enter the holiday buying season without a true flagship to compete against Apple and Google.
    10-31-2013 02:14 PM
  2. index1366's Avatar
    As if there has to be a flagship machine to compete against the two of them.. But that's just my opinion :).
    Editguy1900 and nohra like this.
    10-31-2013 02:27 PM
  3. nohra's Avatar
    Well, now that the competition's heavy guns are all laid out on the table, I'd have to ask: What is Nokia's answer to iPhone 5s and Nexus 5 this holiday season?

    If you're on Verizon, it may be the Lumia 929 (though it's still just a rumour). But what about the rest of us?
    The 1520? I would say no; it's a phablet so it's not a flagship device, and its size makes it unappealing to a majority of people
    The 1020? But that is just a refresh of the 920 with a better camera and extra RAM. To people who are not photo-buffs, it doesn't offer much over the 920 (not to mention it loses built-in wireless charging)

    I hope Nokia still has some surprise up its sleeves, It's hard to imagine they would want to enter the holiday buying season without a true flagship to compete against Apple and Google.
    LOL! Guess I didn't realize flagship phones were a big gift item.

    For me, there's nothing in the iPhone or Android camp that would make me choose those over the 1020 or 928. If people want fancy, release the 1020 in brushed metal cases

    In reality, if the current WP offerings don't fit for people, I don't think anything being released in the next 6+ months is going to make iPhone or Android fans go gaga and switch to WP. Just my 2 cents as someone who went through the whole decision making process not too many months ago.
    snowmutt and Editguy1900 like this.
    10-31-2013 02:36 PM
  4. cckgz4's Avatar
    The 520, which seems to be the bulk of the sales anyhow.

    Parents that want to get their kids their first smartphone for the holidays may not want to get them something as expensive as an iPhone if they aren't responsible enough. 520 seems to be that "test" item
    nohra and Laura Knotek like this.
    11-01-2013 12:57 AM
  5. snowmutt's Avatar
    Outside of the 929, which there is enough chatter out there to make me believe it is real, you have what will be released this year. WP 8.1 (also called Windows Phone Blue earlier) will bring the next wave of Hero devices.

    The 2 or 3 phablets are a Huge (pun completely intended) release. Have you seen the interest in these 5"-6" devices? Getting in on these sales are truly more important then what most of us think. Mini Tablets are almost outselling large tablets, and the sales of the Note have increased every year it has been released. These Phablet releases are very, very important.
    11-01-2013 02:04 AM
  6. snowmutt's Avatar
    The 520, which seems to be the bulk of the sales anyhow.

    Parents that want to get their kids their first smartphone for the holidays may not want to get them something as expensive as an iPhone if they aren't responsible enough. 520 seems to be that "test" item
    The 520 is so important for so many reasons. It gets WP devices into peoples hands who would otherwise would never get one. Consumers are using them as a back up device and will see first hand the advantages of WP. Younger kids/teens who are on a strict budget can get them easily. Developing markets are eating them up.

    All this will build the loyality among a group of buyers that will translate into repeat customers. As WP tries to break that mythical 10% barrier in world wide sales, that is amazingly important. This again shows why Nokia was the partner MS had to have: Nokia required MS to design WP to work on low end devices just to build this audience. MS was looking to compete for the mid/high end market first instead of the low end/entry market. Nokia, of course, was correct. Just like a company who helped build the cell phone revolution would be.
    cckgz4 and nohra like this.
    11-01-2013 02:11 AM
  7. EZJ's Avatar
    To be honest. They don't need an answer. Cause the answer is already out there, the Lumia 1020.

    The 1020 is what the iPhone 5S is to the original iPhone 5. A refresh, and more is not needed really. The 920 still works great and the extra's of the 1020 are just a bonus. As a matter of fact, I expect more people to get a iPhone 5 now, because it's cheaper since the 5S is out.

    The Nexus 5 is in a league of it's own. Android has always been about high specs, because the OS pretty much needs all power to run smoothly. And for the price? Don't worry about that. The Nexus devices have always been very cheap . Yet they lack the experience that some people want that OEMs like HTC, Samsung and Sony provide with their own UI and features.
    11-01-2013 02:23 AM
  8. DJRedLine's Avatar
    I have an old sock in the bottom of my wash basket that's more appealing than the iphone 5s

    how about this:
    my-first-cell.jpg
    11-01-2013 03:49 AM
  9. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    [FONT=Helv][SIZE=2][FONT=Helv][SIZE=2][FONT=Helv][SIZE=2][FONT=Helv][SIZE=2]
    The 1520? I would say no; it's a phablet so it's not a flagship device, and its size makes it unappealing to a majority of people
    Why a phablet cannot be a flagship device?
    11-01-2013 04:34 AM
  10. goodintentions's Avatar
    The 5s is a fad. 64 bit processor don't do any better than 32 below 4gig ram. The so called retina display is a fad. Normal everyday people don't need ultra clear screen on a handheld device. Fingerprint scanner is a fad. Does it really give a person that much of an advantage?

    Only iDiots would line up for days to buy the 5s. I know a few iDiots that are always broke as a joke and they always have the latest iPhone.
    11-01-2013 05:10 AM
  11. ag1986's Avatar
    The 520, which seems to be the bulk of the sales anyhow.

    Parents that want to get their kids their first smartphone for the holidays may not want to get them something as expensive as an iPhone if they aren't responsible enough. 520 seems to be that "test" item
    iPhone 5C - $100-200 on AT&T
    iPhone 4S - $1-50 on same

    Sadly, those are more likely to get the lion's share of such sales...
    11-01-2013 05:10 AM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The 5s is a fad. 64 bit processor don't do any better than 32 below 4gig ram. The so called retina display is a fad. Normal everyday people don't need ultra clear screen on a handheld device. Fingerprint scanner is a fad. Does it really give a person that much of an advantage?

    Only iDiots would line up for days to buy the 5s. I know a few iDiots that are always broke as a joke and they always have the latest iPhone.
    Then WP8 dearly needs some "fads" of its own. I'm sure MSFT would agree.
    11-01-2013 05:26 AM
  13. ag1986's Avatar
    The 5s is a fad. 64 bit processor don't do any better than 32 below 4gig ram. The so called retina display is a fad. Normal everyday people don't need ultra clear screen on a handheld device. Fingerprint scanner is a fad. Does it really give a person that much of an advantage?

    Only iDiots would line up for days to buy the 5s. I know a few iDiots that are always broke as a joke and they always have the latest iPhone.
    That fingerprint scanner is a revolution in that it is the first known implementation of biometrics on a mobile device that is reliable, secure and consistent. I had an Atrix and a few laptops, and this was ALWAYS hit and miss. Scanner wouldn't recognise my thumb half the time. We got a 5S in for a test device and I tried it - amazingly reliable. It always worked, regardless of dirty thumb (intentionally stained with chocolate), orientation of finger, etc.

    About retina display, I don't know about you, but I thought exactly the same until I got an iPod Touch 4G for 50 euro. After that, and my current Retina MBP, I can tell you that the difference is very noticeable when you use a screen with a lower PPI.

    And finally, fad or not, they sold 9 million of the damned things.
    jpling likes this.
    11-01-2013 05:31 AM
  14. broar94's Avatar
    The 5s is a fad. 64 bit processor don't do any better than 32 below 4gig ram. The so called retina display is a fad. Normal everyday people don't need ultra clear screen on a handheld device. Fingerprint scanner is a fad. Does it really give a person that much of an advantage?

    Only iDiots would line up for days to buy the 5s. I know a few iDiots that are always broke as a joke and they always have the latest iPhone.
    Fingerprint scanning on a phone is not a fad. I think it will save a lot of space and time since its just one touch on the scanner, whereas on ordinary phones, you need to key in a combination or swipe depending on os which takes more time/effort always. Once you get used to unlocking a phone by pressing your thumb, other phones will always feel like a crumble :-P

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    11-01-2013 06:12 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    The 5s is a fad. 64 bit processor don't do any better than 32 below 4gig ram. The so called retina display is a fad. Normal everyday people don't need ultra clear screen on a handheld device. Fingerprint scanner is a fad. Does it really give a person that much of an advantage?

    Only iDiots would line up for days to buy the 5s. I know a few iDiots that are always broke as a joke and they always have the latest iPhone.
    It doesn't matter if it's a fad. They sell! Apple sold about as many iPhones in one weekend in September as WP sold the entire quarter. And yes, the iPhone delivers the user experience to justify the sales. They earned their reputation.

    Disclaimer: I am no Apple fanboy. I have an almost new iPhone 5 that sits around without a SIM card in it most of the time. The SIM card that I could put in it is in a Lumia 520!
    11-01-2013 06:20 AM
  16. chezm's Avatar
    Windows phone fanboys need to stop being fanboys and realize that this is a relevant question that deserves an answer from MS/Nokia. Come on people, we know the phablets are a small niche and won't take off selling millions. As it stands, iPhone has this year dominated with no WP challenge in sight. Sad really.
    11-01-2013 06:38 AM
  17. snowmutt's Avatar
    The 5s is a fad. 64 bit processor don't do any better than 32 below 4gig ram. The so called retina display is a fad. Normal everyday people don't need ultra clear screen on a handheld device. Fingerprint scanner is a fad. Does it really give a person that much of an advantage?

    Only iDiots would line up for days to buy the 5s. I know a few iDiots that are always broke as a joke and they always have the latest iPhone.
    Really??? A fad??? Wow, I am shocked to hear the single best selling cell phone year in and year out since it's introduction is simply a fad. I understand Android outsells iOS as a whole, but no single Android outsells the iPhone and never has.

    I do not understand the argument that somehow the people who are loyal to Apple products will wake up in the Holiday season of 2013 and say: "This thing just is so over rated. I am so over it."

    Of course people are going to flock to the iPhone 5S. Apple will package up the "new" iPhone like a new and improved space cruiser that will solve all intersteller disputes. And those users that use Apples ecosystem are invested in it. It isn't a fad, it is a well supported, well oiled, well funded machine.

    Nokia/MS need to give reasons for iPhone users to try their WP devices, and MS is building an ecosystem to rival Apple and Nokia has some great hardware innovations to try and stem that tide. I think the rumors of a 5" iPhone show that Apple is actually responding to everyone else in the smart phone race for the first time since.... well, maybe ever.

    WP 8.1 should finally get WP on the same level as Android and iOS in features and fix lingering issues from the WP8 software change. They will offer a great user experience, an easy to customize UI, equal hardware, and MS can say there is just as many media offerings for WP as iOS.

    Soon, we may even be seeing Android and iOS responding in their devices to WP's momentum. But this Holiday season? I think this season is just about keeping that momentum going and just being competitive.
    cckgz4 and Old_Cus like this.
    11-01-2013 06:52 AM
  18. ohgood's Avatar
    Windows phone fanboys need to stop being fanboys and realize that this is a relevant question that deserves an answer from MS/Nokia. Come on people, we know the phablets are a small niche and won't take off selling millions. As it stands, iPhone has this year dominated with no WP challenge in sight. Sad really.

    excellent post, completely on topic, instead of sidetracking, bashing, or wandering into the fire of -some-other-phone-sucks-because- arguments.



    i figured the 1020 would be it. i haven't seen the buzz though that i expected to see. figured a commercial showing the 1020 taking holiday pictures and "no tripod needed!" would be a good way to advertise it's capabilities. if this isn't the one, i don't think there is one.
    snowmutt, Old_Cus and nohra like this.
    11-01-2013 07:00 AM
  19. snowmutt's Avatar
    Windows phone fanboys need to stop being fanboys and realize that this is a relevant question that deserves an answer from MS/Nokia. Come on people, we know the phablets are a small niche and won't take off selling millions. As it stands, iPhone has this year dominated with no WP challenge in sight. Sad really.
    While your post is a tad more negative then how I am putting it, I basically agree. I just do not think it is "sad". I just think in 2010, MS hit the reset button on Win Mobile and accepted they were going to grow this new OS slowly. I think they set a 4-6 year plan in place. I think the ecosystem they are bulding - XBOX media/entertainment, cross platform apps, enterprise services, Office, email, the cloud, so on- has the feel of being second to none.

    Sometimes, we here on the mobile OS side forget that the profits from WP/XBOX are a drop in the bucket to MS. Enterprise solutions and services is their bread and butter. So long as they defend that turf- and so far, no one has touched them in those areas- the other areas can grow slowly as long as they break even or show any kind of profit at all.

    But, I agree with one thought: It is strange for MS to have let WP go this long without at least catching up. I would have thought a stronger sense of urgency would have pushed them to be at least even in hardware before now.
    skinnypig118 likes this.
    11-01-2013 07:01 AM
  20. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    But, I agree with one thought: It is strange for MS to have let WP go this long without at least catching up. I would have thought a stronger sense of urgency would have pushed them to be at least even in hardware before now.
    Because MS is building up an ecosystem, not a phone? Google is building a browser and a data mining mobile instrument for their ad revenue. Apple has an ecosystem in place. MS is building theirs - if you look at the bigger picture, you will realize that MS hasn't just say twirling their thumbs but have actually done a lot since 2010 to make an ecosystem where having a Windows Phone now makes sense and in coming couple of years will make a LOT more sense to everyone.

    With death of support for XP, people will move to Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 or 8.5 (when that is even better!) and in coming 3-5 years for MS it makes sense to aim at those billions of PC users and businesses to give out Windows Phone and consumers to use Windows Phone. This ecosystem will be huge due to advantage of PCs against Macs and advantage of Xbox against iTV or Google Play. People will buy into ecosystem, not into a phone.

    Currently I would like to jump the ship and get BBM and all those games by getting an iPhone but I've invested in an ecosystem and seamless sync of my office docs via Skydrive on my phone and on my Windows 8 at work makes more sense to me than BBM. Hence, however much I want BBM, I won't choose an iPhone. It feels like owning an odd one out when I have Surface, Windows 8 PC at work, Windows 8 laptop at home, Xbox 360, Xbox Live, Xbox Music Pass and Windows Phone.

    They want about a billion of me in coming 5 years. See? Even though we as consumers don't want an ecosystem, for MS this is the pace at which they want to develop WP. Because if they bring everything into an ecosystem at same point, each component can grow together. Then they can sell us services like cloud storage, Xbox Music, sharepoint and what not.

    So if anyone wants apps or games or high spec phones, they have to break out of an ecosystem and go buy that Nexus 5. But there won't be an answer to any of these phones by Apple or Google because they want to sell phones but MS wants to sell you an ecosystem.
    Cleavitt76 and snowmutt like this.
    11-01-2013 08:42 AM
  21. ohgood's Avatar
    Because MS is building up an ecosystem, not a phone? Google is building a browser and a data mining mobile instrument for their ad revenue. Apple has an ecosystem in place. MS is building theirs - if you look at the bigger picture, you will realize that MS hasn't just say twirling their thumbs but have actually done a lot since 2010 to make an ecosystem where having a Windows Phone now makes sense and in coming couple of years will make a LOT more sense to everyone.

    With death of support for XP, people will move to Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 or 8.5 (when that is even better!) and in coming 3-5 years for MS it makes sense to aim at those billions of PC users and businesses to give out Windows Phone and consumers to use Windows Phone. This ecosystem will be huge due to advantage of PCs against Macs and advantage of Xbox against iTV or Google Play. People will buy into ecosystem, not into a phone.

    Currently I would like to jump the ship and get BBM and all those games by getting an iPhone but I've invested in an ecosystem and seamless sync of my office docs via Skydrive on my phone and on my Windows 8 at work makes more sense to me than BBM. Hence, however much I want BBM, I won't choose an iPhone. It feels like owning an odd one out when I have Surface, Windows 8 PC at work, Windows 8 laptop at home, Xbox 360, Xbox Live, Xbox Music Pass and Windows Phone.

    They want about a billion of me in coming 5 years. See? Even though we as consumers don't want an ecosystem, for MS this is the pace at which they want to develop WP. Because if they bring everything into an ecosystem at same point, each component can grow together. Then they can sell us services like cloud storage, Xbox Music, sharepoint and what not.

    So if anyone wants apps or games or high spec phones, they have to break out of an ecosystem and go buy that Nexus 5. But there won't be an answer to any of these phones by Apple or Google because they want to sell phones but MS wants to sell you an ecosystem.
    Apparently, it's a harder sell to sell someone an "ecosystem" ( 5-10 products, with subscriptions , and different hardware pieces ) than one phone.
    11-01-2013 09:05 AM
  22. chezm's Avatar
    While your post is a tad more negative then how I am putting it, I basically agree. I just do not think it is "sad". .
    The reason its sad is because i've got a hand full of buddies with iPhone 4's ready to HW upgrade, within the next 2 months. They don't want another iPhone, definitely don't want an Android and were looking forward to WP potentially. However, we no longer have the 920 here for sale on contract deals, I cannot recommend a 1020 for 2 year contract $200 because realistically its a 920 with 2GB of ram and 41MP camera (which is awesome but my friends dont really want). Also, here in Canada there are no 928, 925 models and the 4.5" is the ideal size for most. so what situation is left? They will either just get an iPhone 5s or Nexus 5...or G2... (which are closer to 5" but the coolest and latest) or anything other than WP. With the momentum Surface is finally capturing, people NOW are a little more open-minded to WP8...so there may be others thinking the same as my buddies. It's sad because WP8 could finally have gained some foundation during the xmas holiday season with some updated 92x models but are riding on the coat tails of the 1020...which may appeal to some but doesnt leave options open.

    And just to add, i respect we can speak our mind on this discussion board...hence my 'negative' tone. its because you guys can handle it and we can talk at an honest, level headed playing field. Most other forums or boards would drive others up the wall or off their seats.
    skinnypig118 and snowmutt like this.
    11-01-2013 09:08 AM
  23. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    And just to add, i respect we can speak our mind on this discussion board...hence my 'negative' tone. its because you guys can handle it and we can talk at an honest, level headed playing field. Most other forums or boards would drive others up the wall or off their seats.
    handle-truth.gif
    chezm and snowmutt like this.
    11-01-2013 09:24 AM
  24. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Apparently, it's a harder sell to sell someone an "ecosystem" ( 5-10 products, with subscriptions , and different hardware pieces ) than one phone.
    Exactly it is! But they aren't selling you everything at one time. I didn't buy Surface, Windows 8 PC at work, Windows 8 laptop at home, Xbox 360, Xbox Live, Xbox Music Pass and Windows Phone together on my shopping trip. It isn't harder to sell someone an add-on to something they are already invested in. People are invested in PCs. Many are invested in Xbox 360. If you have Windows at work, Windows at home, Windows on Xbox, heck get a Windows Phone - it is same seamless experience and that's how it all starts.. But to do that, they need to bring a coherent experience which the ecosystem lacks. In trying to do that, WP feels like lagging behind "other phones" - they don't care.


    11-01-2013 09:36 AM
  25. gmlongo's Avatar
    I think Nokia's biggest issue with their product lineup (at least in the US), is that they have no phones in the size range that most women prefer. I have a 920 with not a single scratch on it, but no woman I know will take it because it is too bulky and too heavy. Nokia is missing an entire demographic here...A demographic that could be filled with something like the Lumia 520, but with slightly better specs and including a FFC and flash. Or a 620 with a 4 inch screen.
    chezm and RSB54 like this.
    11-01-2013 09:48 AM
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