Google launches a 1080p, Snapdragon 800 phone at $349.

[ohgood]

I think the Nexus 5 is a pretty good deal if you can get it on your carrier.

I've been reading about Android 4.4 and something I find interesting is it is optimized for lower end hardware. I think Google is trying to get their hand in the market that Nokia is doing so well in.

Huh ? There's a market that Google isn't dominating Nokia ?

 

[z33dev33l]

Huh ? There's a market that Google isn't dominating Nokia ?

Yeah, you'd think the low end OS would have a corner on the low end market

 

[cckgz4]

I've had a recent android device before so I know all android isn't the same. But even if you compare the Lumia 800, its still better than the exhibit in performance. My point is android's low end (and even some high end) doesn't have a consistent experience across the board. I owned the first LG optimus g for at&t and the performance was GREAT, but wasn't without flaws.

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[cckgz4]

And I wasn't calling anyones post defensive, was clearing up that mine wasn't

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[Michael Alan Goff]

Easy, they run windows phone. Put a lambo engine in a jumbo jet and tell me how it goes. Put a hemi in something optimized for it and you're gonna do a lot better.

No one OS is phenomenally better than the other these days. I still have a two year old Galaxy Nexus, and it doesn't lag for me in any meaningful way. Chrome, sure, but Chrome takes huge amounts of resources. OS wise, though, it is a lot better than it used to.

 

[a5cent]

I think the idea is that they're almost to the point where every application is in the store. The launcher is in the store, the gmail application is, calendar is, SMS is because of hangouts integration, and the list continues. Once they get everything in the store, it won't matter what version you're on for a long time. They'll just send you updates for the launcher or dialer or whatever else they want to tweak. That's how Google will fight fragmentation.

That doesn't do anything to fight fragmentation. That may look less fragmented to consumers, and although that is important, it only looks that way.

What ultimately matters is not how it looks, but how it is. The relevant metric is how many hoops developers must jump through to deal with hardware and OS variability, and how much harder those hoops make it to develop reliable software. How many apps are available in the store changes none of that. In other words, everything below the thin surface (the UI layer), remains exactly as it always has been... a fragmented OS and a fragmented hardware mess.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

That doesn't do anything to fight fragmentation. That may look less fragmented to consumers, and although that is important, it only looks that way.

What ultimately matters is not how it looks, but how it is. The relevant metric is how many hoops developers must jump through to deal with hardware and OS variability, and how much harder those hoops make it to develop reliable software. How many apps are available in the store changes none of that. In other words, everything below the thin surface (the UI layer), remains exactly as it always has been... a fragmented OS and a fragmented hardware mess.

Fragmentation will always happen, end of story. Android had it, Windows (and Windows Phone) has it, iOS has it. If you really think giving 90% of features doesn't fight fragmentation, you need to get your ****** glasses off and look at it again.

 

[scottcraft]

Fragmentation will always happen, end of story. Android had it, Windows (and Windows Phone) has it, iOS has it. If you really think giving 90% of features doesn't fight fragmentation, you need to get your ****** glasses off and look at it again.

I agree. Besides I think the only people really concerned about fragmentation are people not using Android.

 

[FinancialP]

Won't happen. At the point Google is with Android, there is only so much optimization they can do. They are in the same predicament Microsoft is in with Windows. Any of the big and very worthwhile things you could change to make it run better on low-end hardware, would break compatibility. That isn't an option. These types of engineering decisions need to be factored in at the get-go. For Android, that ship has sailed. That is precisely why Android has been relying almost exclusively on the bigger-faster-better hardware approach. It's really the only viable approach they have. High-end smartphone hardware is now at the point where it can cover up OS inefficiencies. In a few more years, low-end hardware will also reach that point, but the inefficiencies won't be gone... they'll just be out of sight.

Nope. Read up some more on 4.4, the optimization is the most underrated thing this year. 4.4 system memory/RAM use has been cut nearly 50%, even apps that haven't been recompiled have seen performance increases.


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[Michael Alan Goff]

I agree. Besides I think the only people really concerned about fragmentation are people not using Android.

My mom uses an Android phone. She likes some of the features in Jelly Bean, but she's on Ice Cream Sandwich. Is it a deal breaker, though? No, she's happy with what her phone does right now.The only thing she complains about is internal storage.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Nope. Read up some more on 4.4, the optimization is the most underrated thing this year. 4.4 system memory/RAM use has been cut nearly 50%, even apps that haven't been recompiled have seen performance increases.


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So if I get 4.4 on my GNexus, I should see a big improvement on an already nice device?

 

[FinancialP]

So if I get 4.4 on my GNexus, I should see a big improvement on an already nice device?

You'll have to rely on the Rom community, Google won't be updating the GNex. I agree with their decision.

You should see a decent bump in performance as 4.4 and all of Google apps have been designed to scale for low end devices. Pretty smart by google.


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[Michael Alan Goff]

You'll have to rely on the Rom community, Google won't be updating the GNex. I agree with their decision.

You should see a decent bump in performance as 4.4 and all of Google apps have been designed to scale for low end devices. Pretty smart by google.


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I'm relying on Cyanogenmod.

 

[a5cent]

So you don't think 4.4 will run decent on devices with half a gig of ram? By optimization I meant Google intends to improve memory management and do all sorts of things I don't understand. Seems like I saw a part where there will be tools for app developers to help make their apps more efficient with memory. At this point I won't put it past Google to make android run well on lower hardware. That's really the only area where Android isn't way ahead of everyone.

Nope. Android will always have background processes that can fire up at any time, and consume an arbitrary amount of system resources, including memory. At this point, changing things like that is no longer possible, at least not without sacrificing app compatibility. Google is free to chip away around the edges as much as they want, but they can't change the fundamental principles on which the OS is based, which is what they would have to do to achieve their goal. Google can surely optimize many things, but as smart as Google's engineers may be, not even they can change the laws of computer science.

We will see small improvements here and there, but more powerful hardware filtering down to low-end devices is what will ultimately "solve" those problems.

 

[a5cent]

Fragmentation will always happen, end of story. Android had it, Windows (and Windows Phone) has it, iOS has it. If you really think giving 90% of features doesn't fight fragmentation, you need to get your ****** glasses off and look at it again.

It has nothing to do with ****** glasses. It has to do with understanding what fragmentation actually is, which you apparently do not.

EDIT: You're also missing the point entirely. Yes, fragmentation will happen, but this isn't a binary issue. What is important is the degree to which it happens. Apple's iOS has very little fragmentation, whereas Windows and Android are hugely fragmented. That difference isn't negligible.

 

[mase123987]

It has nothing to do with ****** glasses. It has to do with understanding what fragmentation actually is, which you apparently do not.

EDIT: You're also missing the point entirely. Yes, fragmentation will happen, but this isn't a binary issue. What is important is the degree to which it happens. Apple's iOS has very little fragmentation, whereas Windows and Android are hugely fragmented. That difference isn't negligible.

Just curious: Are you talking Windows or Windows Phone? Neither has much fragmentation. WP7 isn't being sold any more and will be mostly done with as contracts end. The percent will continue to fall more quickly as WP8 continues to grow.

 

[ohgood]

I agree. Besides I think the only people really concerned about fragmentation are people not using Android.

I've noticed this also.

 

[anony_mouse]

Windows Phone flagships have traditionally failed to garner much sales. Should Microsoft be pursuing flagships at a low price, at least while Windows Phone still needs to grow substantially? It might not have to reach Nexus pricing, but if off-contract pricing drops by $200 and on-contract pricing starts at $99 (? la Lumia 900), we might see some sales.

Fully agree. Microsoft need to get WP phones out at cheaper price points than Android. Their only real sales success has been the Nokia 520.
As WP doesn't have a killer feature, it needs to compete on price until it's well established in the market and can boast a comparable App Store to iOS and Android. Microsoft have plenty of money to fund this.

 

[ohgood]

Fully agree. Microsoft need to get WP phones out at cheaper price points than Android. Their only real sales success has been the Nokia 520.
As WP doesn't have a killer feature, it needs to compete on price until it's well established in the market and can boast a comparable App Store to iOS and Android. Microsoft have plenty of money to fund this.

again, another person stating the 520 is a big success. that's great if it is, but where are people getting this info ?

 

[poddie]

again, another person stating the 520 is a big success. that's great if it is, but where are people getting this info ?

if you take he user base percentage for the 520 from AdDuplex and multiply by number of handsets in use and factor in the amount of time since release it should be quite clear.

I suppose it also depends on your definition of "success"... but I would definitely say it is in Nokia and Microsoft's eyes.